VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [DrPinkCake]

[Holy Bacchus]

Mean parents, prostitution, and drug use (you forgot the Ep 4 Quinn Tommy heroin scene) are conflicts and plot devices. These elements can and are in any genre. Doctor Detroit was a hilarious comedy with prostitution, abusive parent (Mom), and drug use, and it isn't considered "dark" by any stretch of the imagination. "Dark" is a genre, like "westerns," "action," "romance," "sci-fi," "situation comedy," "drama", or "musical." "Dark" is a mood, an atmosphere, a theme that is grim and borders on the thriller and horror genres. The (rather brilliant) game City of Broken Dreams is a great example of the dark theme. If you want to SEE what the dark genre looks like, play this game, or watch shows like Dark Matter, or Space Above and Beyond, Blade Runner, or Escape From New York for some Dark Sci-Fi, or just about any Tim Burton movie. The Adams Family movies are dark comedies, etc. I'm reasonably sure you would not suggest that BADIK share the genre of these movies. BADIK has more in common with Glee than Blade Runner!

BADIK has not a single shift in theme so far up to Episode 5 and has remained true to its format. It is currently firmly a romantic sex college drama with strong comedic elements, with crime, intrigue, romance, betrayal and other interesting dramatic subplots. But there is yet to be the grim, dread, fear, terror, depressed mood, perpetual darkness, constant rain, and similar elements that make stories dark. These elements emerged (in the form of psycho-horror) in a sudden splash in AL act 3, which had been a romantic/sex drama up till that point. This was intentional on the part of the writer. He was going for shock value and subverting expectations by suddenly derailing the theme to something utterly dark. It was a gamble but in the end, it didn't work. It was sudden, emotionally violent, and painful (as intended). The characters you had come to care about were suddenly made to suffer brutally before your very eyes where moments before you were smiling and enjoying the romantic tension and humor. Shocking changes that, as one player put it "as I was forced to watch." Many people were very put off by that.

Of course there are conflicts going on in BADIK. Conflicts must be present to form a series of words into a story. Something bad happened to Ashley at the AnO party. Something's creepy with Bella. And other conflicts. None of which has to change the entire genre and theme of the story. That is the concern.

If City of Broken Dreams suddenly turned into a light hearted family friendly comedy in the 3rd act, you can be sure, people would be pissed.

10s across the board for this one.

I agree wholeheartedly that this game having "dark" elements doesn't mean it has to resort to killing off a character or even causing any of them some sort of physical pain. There's plenty of examples in fictitious stories where there are high stakes with dark elements and possible grave outcomes, but the story is also generally light in tone and all the major characters emerge unscathed, and this game could easily be one of them and very likely will be.

Think about it:
1) When Rusty started DIK, she's already there, maybe as HOT prez, maybe not.
2) DIK is around for at least 2 years, given logic and calculations, based on number of members and conversations. Which means MC joined DIK in the 3rd year of DIK foundation.

So she is either in her 3rd year or 4th year.

Sage being in her 4th year could add to her relationship drama because, while she could start a relationship with the MC if she finally breaks things off with Chad, it might only last for the rest of the year because after graduation she's likely to move away from B&R to find work. So, having potentially just come out of a messy break-up with someone she's been with for years, would she want to enter into a relationship with someone she may have to move away from later?

She might feel something for the MC, but in order to not feel heartbreak should she move away, she'd continue to keep their relationship casual even though she really wants more, and this inner conflict would be the source of some drama and friction between her and the MC.

The issue with M&J is that their interlinked situation draws up a natural comparison between their actions up to the reveal.

Josy's dialogue reveal to the MC that she is in a relationship, she does like you and she will eventually choose either option. The nature of her (scripted and unavoidable) interactions with the MC is that you are both willing to initiate contact and pursue each other i.e She phones you on the first night but it's MC who suggests the second date.

With Maya you never have a moment of clarity but are left swinging from the extremes.

You have the whole 'honesty' conversation where you have to commit to it but she won't until you prove yourself.
I have a boyfriend, I don't have a boyfriend.
Cuddle up to me on my bed but don't fall for me.
Going to grind you, get you abducted and effectively raped by another woman but I'm a sweet innocent thing, here's a kiss now back to your side of the room.

Maya is definitely 'complicated' and if that's your area of interest then fair enough but Leah scarred me the last time around (AL) so I'm sticking with the more interesting straight shooters of Sage and Josy and even the dull but hot Jillian.

Maya being conflicted and doing things that make her seem a bit all over the place don't put her in the same camp as Leah. She's an 18/19 year old girl who's still unsure of herself whilst also trying to cope with some heartbreaking developments in her life as well as feeling some strange new feelings for someone of the opposite gender when previously she's only ever liked girls, or at least one girl. She's a bit of an emotional mess, yes, but she's certainly not crazy like Leah.

People like that need emotional support, not to be shunned and treated like a leper just because she made some poor judgements which, again, come down to both her age and her emotional state at that time. I feel heart sorry for someone like Maya and the "lie of omission" doesn't bother me in the slightest as it wouldn't have changed anything even if she had said she had a girlfriend.

What hurt the most, for me, was the feeling that, instead of potentially just losing one girl that you like, it felt like you were now losing two at once. You were now faced with having not 1, but 2 love rivals who also happened to be characters that you were interested in, so it was a strange mix of emotions between heartbreak, uncertainty, and even a bit of hope, but then being forced to watch their first hook-up stung because it felt so much more emotional and intimate than anything they'd done with the MC.

I'm still not completely over all that and I was honestly dreading that moment in ep 5 when you see them go into a room together as I thought that we'd end up seeing them half-naked on the bed making out which would have re-opened that wound a fair bit. Fortunately DPC didn't do that, probably because they knew not to rub salt in the wounds of some people, and I'm hoping going forward that DPC can give players some greater reassurance through M&J interactions that there is something real between them and that this relationship can work.

 

[AvatarStormBringer]

Sage being in her 4th year could add to her relationship drama because, while she could start a relationship with the MC if she finally breaks things off with Chad, it might only last for the rest of the year because after graduation she's likely to move away from B&R to find work. So, having potentially just come out of a messy break-up with someone she's been with for years, would she want to enter into a relationship with someone she may have to move away from later?

She might feel something for the MC, but in order to not feel heartbreak should she move away, she'd continue to keep their relationship casual even though she really wants more, and this inner conflict would be the source of some drama and friction between her and the MC.

Ya know, if she belongs to one of the alphabet soup families or as one of the theory says, a Burke, she could stay and work in the alphabet university? If that happens then maybe she can be happy with the budding relationship?

 

[Holy Bacchus]

Ya know, if she belongs to one of the alphabet soup families or as one of the theory says, a Burke, she could stay and work in the alphabet university? If that happens then maybe she can be happy with the budding relationship?

Well, considering we saw what was very likely to be her Dad in ep 5 and it wasn't Stephen, I doubt that. Besides, even if that were the case, she seems to have issues with her family as evidenced during the sparring training with the MC, so she'd probably want to move away from them.

 

[Wizard_Shiryuu]

Well, considering we saw what was very likely to be her Dad in ep 5 and it wasn't Stephen, I doubt that. Besides, even if that were the case, she seems to have issues with her family as evidenced during the sparring training with the MC, so she'd probably want to move away from them.

And from the carwash scene, when Quinn tells her to get a sponsorship.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

I.. have an issue with the word "canonical". Previously I asked if the fight with Caleb is canonical, and those who answered me here said it is. So I do not know what that word stands for anymore.

As for Sage, we'll just have to see how it pans out. Whether when Chad breaks up with her, will she turn into an axe-wielding murderous bitch, or will she come to you and cry her tears dry at your bosom. Although I suspect the second scenario will happen irregardless of whether you are her fuck-buddy or not, she just needs a shoulder to cry on and you are that shoulder.

Unless she passes her baton early to focus on her last year.

The fight with Caleb is not canonical because it can be avoided.

In short, anything that is "canon" are things that are unavoidable. Anything that is based on choice is therefore not canon.

 

[Phynix]

On a slightly different topic. I have forgotten, but other than Quinn's business, where do HOTs get their money?

 

[Meushi]

I.. have an issue with the word "canonical". Previously I asked if the fight with Caleb is canonical, and those who answered me here said it is. So I do not know what that word stands for anymore.

No wonder you're confused, not sure everyone is across what canononical means. With respect to fictional works it conventionally means official, as distinct from fan works etc. So everything DPC puts in the game is canonical, someone doing a mod that changes Jill's name to June is non-canonical.

The Caleb fight/no-fight is more like alternate timelines/realities. The multiverse is confusing but full of possibilities.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

On a slightly different topic. I have forgotten, but other than Quinn's business, where do HOTs get their money?

For all we know, "community stuff" could be a euphemism, but if it isn't then it's probably doing some volunteer charity work where the raise money for the sorority by helping out the local community.

 

[Sculp]

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SPOİLER SPOİLER SPOILER SPOILER I have a quick question in episode 4 there is post in dıkoffical cathy's naked photo right? and someoene post that thing and it is not dık's. Also in episode 5 ın the mansion of preps bathroom where sarah, heather and melanie where talking. Sarah is saying that she snooped around in the dık mansion and find out that they have crabs PLUS in the episode 5 when mc visit's sage to teach her how to play guitar sarah and melanie saying that they will inform chad that mc and sage more friendly than they should so the real question is did sarah upload the photo of cathy does anyone knows.

 

[felicemastronzo]

No wonder you're confused, not sure everyone is across what canononical means. With respect to fictional works it conventionally means official, as distinct from fan works etc. So everything DPC puts in the game is canonical, someone doing a mod that changes Jill's name to June is non-canonical.

The Caleb fight/no-fight is more like alternate timelines/realities. The multiverse is confusing but full of possibilities.

an additional difficulty is how to consider what we see or is told to us directly in one path, while in another it may or may not be real.

 

[Phynix]

Yeah it really could be anything, community 'stuff'...fundraisers...donations, member fee's etc. As it's stated, all the houses do it in one form or another with the exception of Rusty.

It's pretty obvious I think that the need for money with Quinn is due to the drugs and she probably owes someone a lot of cash...hence the resteraunt services too. Big question is: How much does Sage know of what's going on, if anything? I don't get the impression she is that stupid personally to be completely oblivious to what's going in her house (Quinn is also nowhere near intelligent enough to not make mistakes and hide it from her).

Sage doesn't seem to know anything about it. If memory serves there are a few scenes where Quinn with someone else is discussing business and they change topic/stop talking as soon as Sage shows up.

EDIT- and im sure that if Sage would know or find out about it, she would give in and ask her parents for money to prevent that.

 

[Wizard_Shiryuu]

View attachment 747962 View attachment 747963 View attachment 747964

For all we know, "community stuff" could be a euphemism, but if it isn't then it's probably doing some volunteer charity work where the raise money for the sorority by helping out the local community.

I doubt Elena and Johny Boy are aware of the restaurant and stuff. I'm sure that's legit what he means.

 

[Meushi]

But currently there are no alternate timelines. No multiverse.

On the contrary, there are multiple alternate paths (Caleb fight, who you stay with after the Maya/Josy tantrum etc.) which represent alternate timelines/realities. Sliding doors moments are kind of the point of games with choices.

Anything DPC does is canonical.

 

[Maviarab]

On the contrary, there are multiple alternate paths (Caleb fight, who you stay with after the Maya/Josy tantrum etc.) which represent alternate timelines/realities. Sliding doors moments are kind of the point of games with choices.

Anything DPC does is canonical.

You're misunderstanding. Alternate path yes, not timeline. Also, that alternate path leads to the exact same place as every other path. So it's filler for one particular path. End result is the same as a very specific story is being told, we only have slight control as to how we end up at the same point. Illusion of choice

This is what I mean as canon. There is a canon story. That's not debateable. You will go on a date with Josy. You will move into Maya's dorm. You will be beaten up by Chad and stay with Jill. That cannot be changed. Canon. Anything else inbetween is how we get there. That's a path. So yes, end of the game, you may end up with Sage, I may end up Josy...but there is a still a set sequence of events that will happen throughout the story regardless of anything else.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

I doubt Elena and Johny Boy are aware of the restaurant and stuff. I'm sure that's legit what he means.

I'm not saying that John Boy may have used "community stuff" as a euphemism, but that that's what Elena told him and he just accepts it. Elena would be the one using it as a euphemism because she knows about it.

 

[Wizard_Shiryuu]

Anything DPC does is canonical.

People have different opinions about that. And considering everything canonical even if it's true it doesn't mean anything because there is no "no canon". If you consider it what's canon for ALL routes at least it means something to say that something is canon or not.

I'm not saying that John Boy may have used "community stuff" as a euphemism, but that that's what Elena told him and he just accepts it. Elena would be the one using it as a euphemism because she knows about it.

Yeah, I know what you meant. I mean that both of them are unaware to Quinn's stuff (afaik) so he means it for real (and Elena didn't lie to him either), no euphemisms there.

 

[moskyx]

You're misunderstanding. Alternate path yes, not timeline. Also, that alternate path leads to the exact same place as every other path. So it's filler for one particular path. End result is the same as a very specific story is being told, we only have slight control as to how we end up at the same point. Illusion of choice

Absolutely not. The MC and his relationships are not at the same point in all playthroughs. And some events happen or not depending on your choices, thus leading to very different outcomes for some situations.

 

[mindern]

What we also have to remember here is that Mel/Sarah seeing the MC is not a canonical event. That event only happens if on the Sage path. so going forward (as hundreds of variable branches is too much to expect) is that that scene is exclusive to that path and not going to be particularly big going forward). Many people (and I have 4 saves alone alone where I don't) do not pursue Sage.

Going home for the weekend is a canonical event. Spying on Chad etc, staying the night with Jill, walking out of Maya's dorm etc...movie night (even if you are not there), are all canonical events regardless of what you choose/do. The Mel/Sarah scene is exclusive to the Sage path...so I don't see it having any real long term relevence personally, unless Dp really is going to have multiple completely seperate storylines as if you are not fuck buddies with Sage, do not teach her how to play the guitar, you are quite simply not there for them

It could have significance on the Sage route. It could have long term relevance on the Sage storyline. The routes have to diverge at some point.

It also could become a common plot element, just because the girls don’t see the MC if you’re on other routes doesn’t mean their actions won’t still happen. The girls clearly want to tell Chad and break them up. The scene where they see MC/Sage talking implies they’ve spoken about MC before. They’ve some vested interest in the Sage/Chad relationship and their entire motivation isn’t born of just seeing them together in that moment.

Theres more than one way to skin a cat. If DPC does want to make Mel/Sarah breaking Chad and Sage up a “canon” plot point shared across routes he can. Just because that is a scene isolated to Sages route doesn’t automatically make it irrelevant. The game makes a big deal about Bella letting you call her Bella... being able to call her Bella wasn’t part of the common “canon” before Ep5 because it only happened on her route. Come Ep5 the game finds another way and has Bella like you because you helped with Cathy.

Sage herself is brought back into the fold regardless of being fuck buddies. We obviously shouldn’t assume stuff seen on one routes is also true on other routes but to dismiss it entirely is also unfair because DPC has shown he will homogenise routes. There’s just no way of knowing what will and won’t stay on routes.

 

[AvatarStormBringer]

Well, considering we saw what was very likely to be her Dad in ep 5 and it wasn't Stephen, I doubt that. Besides, even if that were the case, she seems to have issues with her family as evidenced during the sparring training with the MC, so she'd probably want to move away from them.

If she has that huge of an issue with her family (assuming the Burkes), why would she study in the university where the whole family is, let alone be the HOT prez which may require her to have many many interactions with the ANO prez and the school counselor? Maybe she needs to depend on the father until she graduates then she can declare her independence. But there's also the scenario that in the end she loves MC so much that she can sacrifice anything for MC, just like Linette for Neil.

Regarding the canonical topic, to sum it up, my playthrough may be canonical to me but not to you. But to DPC, all are viable routes so all are canonical. In the world of BaDIK, there is a tree with alternate branches of what happens based on choices. No matter whatever choice the player makes, is considered valid.

 

[Meushi]

You're misunderstanding. Alternate path yes, not timeline. Also, that alternate path leads to the exact same place as every other path.

I didn't misunderstand, I'm saying you're using the wrong terminology to describe your point.

I agree there are certain fixed points which are common to multiple paths. This doesn't make the points of divergence non-canon. It's almost certain the final love interest will be a result of the players choices, so it's obviously a branching story to some extent with alternate timelines/realities.

People have different opinions about that. And considering everything canonical even if it's true it doesn't mean anything because there is no "no canon". If you consider it what's canon for ALL routes at least it means something to say that something is canon or not.

Kind of my point, talking about certain scenes being canon in a multi-path game is pointless.

Which is why for instance the Dr Who franchise doesn't regard anything as canon, so they can do whatever they want (even if the Whovians moan about inconsistencies).