VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [DrPinkCake]

[shazba]

I don't particularly disagree about there being no real canon, but how is that relevant to the question of why we get some of these choices in the first place? The fact that even an MC who never won Isabella over still gets to call her Bella and worries about his relationship with her just underscores the point: too many of the choices DPC gives us are ultimately decorative and not only never contribute to a larger picture, they actively obscure it.

So if Bella likes the mc, she's happy for him to call her Bella.

But if she doesn't like him, at her house after the mc has just worked a miracle with Cathy who was shitting bricks, Bella thanks the mc for helping Cathy:

mc: "Oh... Thanks, Bella."
mc: "Crap... I mean Isabella."
Bella: "Bella is fine."

It's clear to Bella that Jill really likes the mc. He's also just helped out Cathy when both Jill and Bella failed, and then he accidentally draws attention to the fact that she still won't let him call her Bella. She caves in, in front of Jill, because otherwise she'd look like a raging cunt. That all makes sense to me. If anything, at this point, she may have decided he's not all bad after all. Doesn't mean she wants to fuck him.

So that's the whole "Still gets to call her Bella" concern.

But where does he worry about his relationship with her when he's not on her path?

After the piano recital, he gets a little nervous when he suddenly realises he's surrounded by a bunch of friends who he has been making out with at a minimum. I don't think that's an unrealistic observation of the mc's.

And when he makes his big decision at the end of episode 8, he doesn't even consider Bella if he isn't on her path.

But is there a time when he's actually thinking about his relationship with Bella when there isn't one?

But your last point goes over my head: "...too many of the choices DPC gives us are ultimately decorative and not only never contribute to a larger picture, they actively obscure it."

I thought the choices were obvious. You choose to pursue a girl or not. This results in none, or many potential relationships. And then eventually you make one choice between the relationships you've been working on.

If you're suggesting the choices earlier on were meaningless since you've got to choose just one girl now, that doesn't ring true to me. The mc was getting to know different girls, he got to know the ones that appealed to him more than the ones that didn't. Then he decided it was time to make a choice, since he'd gone as far as he felt was appropriate, after which he would just be stringing the girls along.

If you're not suggesting that, then I really don't get your point and I feel retarded...

EDIT: Also, if you've only chosen one girl all along, when it comes down to the big decision, there is no choice, the game jumps straight to choosing that girl for you. But at the same time, whether you wanted to or not, the mc was recently forming relationships with Jill, Maya and Josy (even if they ended), so being a little conflicted isn't ridiculous.

 

[dirtydandoogan1]

I think I remember this ... I think you have to NOT help Maya with the scavenger hunt initially. Or that could be for a different Maya/Josy scene that had that condition.

You have to go to Maya at the prep party after

If I go by the Official Walkthrough, you will only ever have 50% of this scene without a mod. The MC has to decide between Josy and Maya which of the two girls to start with to complete this last task of the scavenger hunt.

View attachment 2172842

Nope. DON'T agree to help Maya with the list just before Josy shows up. She won't cross thighjob off the list, and you can get the thighjob in this scene, thus the 100%.

 

[ffive]

The hope is the last thing we lose.

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Nicole -- the stepmom the throuple needs, even if they don't deserve it.

 

[allanl9020142]

It's kinda the same with Bella.

I had a playthrough where I tried not to initiate anything with her and just be friendly towards her. Then it will seem like she is coming on to you which is funny because ususally it feels like you are chasing her. And if you then allow her - as a friend - to help clean up the library in the DIK-house, it will lead to unavoidable sex.

I still think you have to be on her route to do that though. I'm talking about the actual in-game mechanics that decide whether or not you're on someone's route.
I might not have played it the way you did but I remember if you don't do much with her and then choose to NOT go to her house after sneaking into the Preps' mansion to see Jill and ask her out on a date, that pretty much takes you off Bella's path. Even when I would help paint her fence, she still didn't come over. I remember that part because I deliberately choose not to pursue Bella because at first I just wasn't that interested in that character but now ... it's because I don't want to see that sad scene of her sitting alone after MC breaks things off in ep 8.

With Sage, if you choose NOT to teach her guitar after getting it back from her you still get a second chance to actually get back on her path in ep 7.

 

[allanl9020142]

For those of you who hurt Jill... The trauma will make her change... She'll never be the same again!

View attachment 2172622

I remember that kind of thing happening to a friend once. Kind of but sort of the same. He was dating this reserved girl and they never did anything but the second they broke up, she started fucking every other guy she found. We laughed so hard about that. Well ... we all laughed. He didn't.

 

[ename144]

So if Bella likes the mc, she's happy for him to call her Bella.

But if she doesn't like him, at her house after the mc has just worked a miracle with Cathy who was shitting bricks, Bella thanks the mc for helping Cathy:

mc: "Oh... Thanks, Bella."
mc: "Crap... I mean Isabella."
Bella: "Bella is fine."

It's clear to Bella that Jill really likes the mc. He's also just helped out Cathy when both Jill and Bella failed, and then he accidentally draws attention to the fact that she still won't let him call her Bella. She caves in, in front of Jill, because otherwise she'd look like a raging cunt. That all makes sense to me. If anything, at this point, she may have decided he's not all bad after all. Doesn't mean she wants to fuck him.

So that's the whole "Still gets to call her Bella" concern.

But where does he worry about his relationship with her when he's not on her path?

After the piano recital, he gets a little nervous when he suddenly realises he's surrounded by a bunch of friends who he has been making out with at a minimum. I don't think that's an unrealistic observation of the mc's.

And when he makes his big decision at the end of episode 8, he doesn't even consider Bella if he isn't on her path.

I'm familiar with the way Bella's path works.

But is there a time when he's actually thinking about his relationship with Bella when there isn't one?

But your last point goes over my head: "...too many of the choices DPC gives us are ultimately decorative and not only never contribute to a larger picture, they actively obscure it."

I thought the choices were obvious. You choose to pursue a girl or not. This results in none, or many potential relationships. And then eventually you make one choice between the relationships you've been working on.

If you're suggesting the choices earlier on were meaningless since you've got to choose just one girl now, that doesn't ring true to me. The mc was getting to know different girls, he got to know the ones that appealed to him more than the ones that didn't. Then he decided it was time to make a choice, since he'd gone as far as he felt was appropriate, after which he would just be stringing the girls along.

If you're not suggesting that, then I really don't get your point and I feel retarded...

The problem isn't having to choose a girl at the crossroads, it's that the reason WHY the MC chooses a girl at the crossroads doesn't flow from the path that brought him there. An MC who embraces being Sage's fuckbuddy and likes sleeping around shouldn't care if he's a rebound guy. An MC who was fine making out with Bella after doubles tennis then fighting for Jill the same night shouldn't be phased by seeing the two of them hug after the concert. An MC who turned down both Maya and Josy shouldn't spend the entirety of Episode 4 moping about how they didn't cheat on each other with him.

Yet somehow all of that is possible. DPC goes out of his way to allow us to make choices that seem incompatible with later events, and at no point does he attempt to reconcile that dichotomy. It doesn't seem to occur to him that there ought to be a reason WHY the MC does whatever we tell him to do, and that said reason should color the way the MC behaves going forward. To DPC, our choices are always made in a vacuum; it's only his choices that are allowed to have deeper meaning.

I find it extremely frustrating because it guts one of the strongest aspects of the game for no justifiable reason. DPC clearly knows where the story is going in broad strokes, so why waste time developing side-paths that will only cause problems later?

EDIT: Also, if you've only chosen one girl all along, when it comes down to the big decision, there is no choice, the game jumps straight to choosing that girl for you. But at the same time, whether you wanted to or not, the mc was recently forming relationships with Jill, Maya and Josy (even if they ended), so being a little conflicted isn't ridiculous.

Sure, the MC will automatically pick the chosen girl at the crossroads... but only after he spends the whole breakfast asking Elena and Tommy for advice on how to choose. Likewise he shouldn't have been concerned seeing the girls hug after the concert because there's nothing to feel awkward about: he's already broken things off with all but one (two for M/J) of them.

It just another symptom of the way DPC allows us to behave in ways that are incompatible with the way the MC will need to behave to advance the story. He knew he was going to have a big crossroad at the end of Season 2. He could have spent the season building up to that crossroad, but instead he allowed us to do more or less whatever we wanted; we could drop a girl's path if she didn't interest us. Yet rather than carry that philosophy through to its natural conclusion and make the crossroads itself optional, he just pulled rank and forced the MC suddenly resurect his old feelings for the girls long enough to start his big montage. Then, for good measure, he did it again when the MC learned who Sage's parents are.

Small wonder people aren't pleased to see Zoey after that performance. Like I said, DPC can't seem to help himself.

 

[Jerry1414]

Anyone know why my game crashes after episode seven? It happens after i press "done" on the episode review. Im on joiplay. Ive tried save files later in the game, but none have been at the beginning of episode 8. If anyone would be so kind as to give a solution or a save file that starts after the episode 8 recap, i would be very thankful.

 

[Jerry1414]

Any mods installed? Could be that the mod has let you make a decision that's incompatible with another decision. For instance if you changed your status to CHICK for a throuple or Jill scene but you've played other scenes only available as DIK.

None that im aware of. Ive only downloaded the game from this thread.

 

[The Dick]

I'm gonna go with your entire opinion is flawed for a very major reason:

It's an interlude.

It's literally not meant to be relevant to the main story. That's the point of an interlude. It's a break between acts.

If the Interlude was meant to be an episode, then it would be bad for all the reasons you've stated. But it's not an episode, it's an interlude, and it suits its purpose of an interlude well enough - a break from the main story.

Whether you wanted it or not, that's a matter of taste.

Yeah... I like your reasonable answers and I'm also tired of arguing... So, just to close it (and I promise not to talk about the merits of the Interlude anymore), my considerations are based on an ideal that a good plot is one that everything in it matters and it's interconnected (and allows no excuses, even when the author calls those unnecessary parts interlude, prologue, epilogue, intermezzo, aside, digression or whatever); also, exposition must be parsed into the action in a way that you don't pause to explain things you may need to understand what will come next in the plot (even less to expose what's not necessary to understand the plot).

Of course, we're talking about a porn game which allows deviations from the plot for the purpose of sex; the same way a comedy allows deviations for the purpose of laughing. And that's my problem with the Interlude: it doesn't follow the ideal, it's expository, and it's not funny nor sexy.

Certainly, people may be entertained and enjoy those things that doesn't fit the ideal -- that's the subjective part -- and may even say fuck the ideals, but mind that's harder to stick to the ideal and that's why it's valued. I even think that DPC has such a following because, despite my criticisms, he's one of the few devs here that are closer to the ideal. The majority of games here doesn't even have a clue what a plot is. There are about 13 thousand games listed on F95Zone, and I dare to say that less than 1% is good, and DPC is among the 0.1% -- what I think most people here will agree, which proves not everything is a matter of taste, otherwise the distribution of fans would be random. DPC stands from the crowd because he has qualities; and I'm criticizing the Interlude for lacking some the qualities he uphold until now...

But that's it. People may enjoy the Interlude, and I won't complain anymore. As a sign of good faith and as a peace offering, I even fixed Zoey's awful chest tattoo and put it in the proper place without the kitsch quote:

 

[Jerry1414]

Can't help you then, not encountered anyone else with that issue and certainly not had it myself. I can't even speedrun a save for you as I do have a mod installed so it would be incompatible

All good. Thanks for the response.

 

[felicemastronzo]

I agree about going to see Bella. And yet DPC still gave us the choice. Why? If the game is so obviously biased in favor of that option, why give us a half-assed opportunity to do otherwise? Similarly, for those MCs who have gone out of their way not to pursue several girls, why then insist we play through the MC's pointless navel-gazing about who to date at the end of Episode 8? We've obviously already made the choice.

Personally, I think DPC just can't help himself. He likes to add choices, but he isn't willing to abide by the limitations those choices should impose on his story. This eventually undercuts both the story and choices, but in the heat of the moment the allure of cosmetic choices is too shiny for him to ignore.

Instead, it seems to me that some extra choices are often missing or misplaced.

To go or not to go to Bella is not a choice, if then arrived there MC does something that was not budgeted for. the choice should have been "thank you/say goodbye to Bella and leave" and "push for something more," this way I am deciding what happens

Bella is the only LIs we can find ourselves involved with without any direct choice, just visit her in the library and then without doing anything accept her help with the room

 

[Porthas]

Yeah... I like your reasonable answers and I'm also tired of arguing... So, just to close it (and I promise not to talk about the merits of the Interlude anymore), my considerations are based on an ideal that a good plot is one that everything in it matters and it's interconnected (and allows no excuses, even when the author calls those unnecessary parts interlude, prologue, epilogue, intermezzo, aside, digression or whatever); also, exposition must be parsed into the action in a way that you don't pause to explain things you may need to understand what will come next in the plot (even less to expose what's not necessary to understand the plot).

Of course, we're talking about a porn game which allows deviations from the plot for the purpose of sex; the same way a comedy allows deviations for the purpose of laughing. And that's my problem with the Interlude: it doesn't follow the ideal, it's expository, and it's not funny nor sexy.

Certainly, people may be entertained and enjoy those things that doesn't fit the ideal -- that's the subjective part -- and may even say fuck the ideals, but mind that's harder to stick to the ideal and that's why it's valued. I even think that DPC has such a following because, despite my criticisms, he's one of the few devs here that are closer to the ideal. The majority of games here doesn't even have a clue what a plot is. There are about 13 thousand games listed on F95Zone, and I dare to say that less than 1% is good, and DPC is among the 0.1% -- what I think most people here will agree, which proves not everything is a matter of taste, otherwise the distribution of fans would be random. DPC stands from the crowd because he has qualities; and I'm criticizing the Interlude for lacking some the qualities he uphold until now...

But that's it. People may enjoy the Interlude, and I won't complain anymore. As a sign of good faith and as a peace offering, I even fixed Zoey's awful chest tattoo and put it in the proper place without the kitsch quote:

View attachment 2175003

 

[akdomino]

You have to go to Maya at the prep party after

Nope. DON'T agree to help Maya with the list just before Josy shows up. She won't cross thighjob off the list, and you can get the thighjob in this scene, thus the 100%.

This is strange. The player gets 100% of the scene if he doesn't want to help Maya. But in the walkthrough it is written that the player should help Maya if he likes Maya. The thigh job is done by Josy and not Maya.

 

[shazba]

This is strange. The player gets 100% of the scene if he doesn't want to help Maya. But in the walkthrough it is written that the player should help Maya if he likes Maya. The thigh job is done by Josy and not Maya.

View attachment 2175061

You can't get 100% on one play through. If you help Maya you get 50% but miss out on doing it with the threesome. If you don't help Maya you'll get the 50% with the threesome. You'll need multiple playthroughs to unlock 100% (or just help Maya and then rewind).

 

[NebulousShooter]

Plus, actually thinking about it the entire concept for the Interlude is kind shit. Now we, the player, know exactly what happened and as the MC it might be hard to make unbiased decisions when it comes to her because we know for a fact

You mean kinda when you see Quinn do her shit while the MC is oblivious about? Its not like the main game is 100% MC's POV and the Interlude broke from that mold. When you have somewhat of an ensemble game its common that the viewer knows more than the MC. I find it way easier to play than if the MC knows something and the viewer does not, wondering why the fuck does he reacts a certain way, or my choices are steered into one direction, or another.

 

[Lovetities]

You mean kinda when you see Quinn do her shit while the MC is oblivious about? Its not like the main game is 100% MC's POV and the Interlude broke from that mold. When you have somewhat of an ensemble game its common that the viewer knows more than the MC. I find it way easier to play than if the MC knows something and the viewer does not, wondering why the fuck does he reacts a certain way, or my choices are steered into one direction, or another.

Well, Mc is the one who is telling the story tho.

 

[giraffe69]

Does the ending scene with Sage in the interlude happens to everyone or only for those who have fucked Jade?

 

[felicemastronzo]

Does the ending scene with Sage in the interlude happens to everyone or only for those who have fucked Jade?

for all

changes, however, the reaction of MC

 

[ename144]

Instead, it seems to me that some extra choices are often missing or misplaced.

To go or not to go to Bella is not a choice, if then arrived there MC does something that was not budgeted for. the choice should have been "thank you/say goodbye to Bella and leave" and "push for something more," this way I am deciding what happens

Bella is the only LIs we can find ourselves involved with without any direct choice, just visit her in the library and then without doing anything accept her help with the room

Yeah, Bella's path is very weird, to the point that even the official walkthrough doesn't mention that not going to see Bella in Episode 3 will lock you out of her path forever.

I still think it's meant to reflect the way the two of them are drawn together by a raw, inexplicable passion that overwhelms their rational thought, and thus the romance will happen unless you completely isolate yourself from Bella. But IMHO that is *not* communicated by their actions or dialog, it can only be inferred from the size and shape of the void in the story.

Does the ending scene with Sage in the interlude happens to everyone or only for those who have fucked Jade?

Sadly, yes, it's universal. Though an MC who banged Jade will at least look slightly more concerned about the situation when staring into the mirror prior to that, which is something.

 

[Geralt From Rivia]

Does the ending scene with Sage in the interlude happens to everyone or only for those who have fucked Jade?

It happens with everyone and Sage pissed off in every route.