lemonfreak

The Freakiest of Lemons
Oct 24, 2018
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2 weeks vs 3 years (maybe more, Sage and Chad could've been together since middle school for all we know)

If a girl was thinking of me as 'The One' after such amount of time I'd be looking at getting a restraining order.
 

Cokebaths

Active Member
May 30, 2020
557
794
However the Mc and Sage don't fit your theory. They are both in college, granted Sage has a year left and the MC might have 2-4 years left so they are pretty close. That would be like a Senior in college refusing to date a freshman in college. That one I don't see.
But it does fit? She has a few months before she's outta there at best. The college freshman and high school senior thing was an example but it still applies in college too. I know many people including myself who wouldn't want a serious thing with a freshman at the tail end of my senior year. We don't know how long she's been with Chad, there may be some deep ass history there that's keeping her from packing her shit and leaving him and his glacier chin.
 

Cndyrvr4lf

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Donor
Jun 16, 2017
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2 weeks vs 3 years (maybe more, Sage and Chad could've been together since middle school for all we know)

If a girl was thinking of me as 'The One' after such amount of time I'd be looking at getting a restraining order.
It's not my theory Brotha. I'm not saying the MC is the one but to rule him out romantically doesn't fit. I'm not arguing the MC is the "one" I'm just saying that I'm pretty sure that Sage doesn't think Chad is "One" either.
 

lemonfreak

The Freakiest of Lemons
Oct 24, 2018
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Sure, all I'm saying is that Sage, having been with Chad for a long time, isn't ready to break it off yet and therefore isn't consiously thinking of MC as a serious prospect (although she's clearly catching feelings)

We all know the 5 stages of grief, right now she's just beginning to move from anger to bargaining, imo.
 
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Cndyrvr4lf

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Sure, all I'm saying is that Sage, having been with Chad for a long time, isn't ready to break it off yet and therefore isn't consiously thinking of MC as a serious prospect (although she's clearly catching feelings)

We all know the 5 stages of grief, right now she's just moving beginning to move from anger to bargaining, imo.
Ok I see your point. I'm just saying that Sage and MC dating doesn't mean the "one", marriage or kids.

Anyway as far as Sage/Chad goes. I don't pretend to understand that relationship. With the flashback showing Chad was still cold to modern day with Chad even colder and cheating I can't for the life of me see why Sage is with him. Were they ever together in what we would consider a "normal" relationship? We don't know.
 

Cokebaths

Active Member
May 30, 2020
557
794
Sure, all I'm saying is that Sage, having been with Chad for a long time, isn't ready to break it off yet and therefore isn't consiously thinking of MC as a serious prospect (although she's clearly catching feelings)

We all know the 5 stages of grief, right now she's just moving beginning to move from anger to bargaining, imo.
5 stages of grief. Good point. Who knows how long it'll be before she's moved into the final stage it especially depends on how long they've been together. She might just see MC as a good distraction right now. Which is why I can't see what a romantic ending with her would look like atm
 

lemonfreak

The Freakiest of Lemons
Oct 24, 2018
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5 stages of grief. Good point. Who knows how long it'll be before she's moved into the final stage it especially depends on how long they've been together. She might just see MC as a good distraction right now. Which is why I can't see what a romantic ending with her would look like atm
A few pages back I listed some scenarios for MCs birthday trip home (in Ep8 probably) where he might take home a girlfriend. Sage being in stage 4 (depression) fits that.
 
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Cokebaths

Active Member
May 30, 2020
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A few pages back I listed some scenarios for MCs birthday trip home (in Ep8 probably) where he might take home a girlfriend. Sage being in stage 4 (depression) fits that.
Y'know I can see that I think :unsure: like maybe she's fed up with everything and takes up MC on his offer to get away from all the shit for a bit.
 

Ransu012

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Oct 25, 2019
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Holy Bacchus

Conversation Conqueror
Dec 13, 2018
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A few pages back I listed some scenarios for MCs birthday trip home (in Ep8 probably) where he might take home a girlfriend. Sage being in stage 4 (depression) fits that.
I remember this being discussed a while back and it wasn't considered particularly likely that this would happen as it would mean DPC would have to write, render, and code at least 5 different variations of one single event for each of the girls who the MC could "invite" home. Plus, it would seem a little early for the MC to be introducing his Dad to any of the girls since it's a big step for relationships that are still figuring themselves out.
 

lemonfreak

The Freakiest of Lemons
Oct 24, 2018
5,405
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I remember this being discussed a while back and it wasn't considered particularly likely that this would happen as it would mean DPC would have to write, render, and code at least 5 different variations of one single event for each of the girls who the MC could "invite" home. Plus, it would seem a little early for the MC to be introducing his Dad to any of the girls since it's a big step for relationships that are still figuring themselves out.
It's a safe assumption that Bella wouldn't travel with him so that's one scenario that doesn't need rendering. I suggested M&J staying with Pete and Monica so that would need minimal work. If M&J are still keeping their relationship secret then Josy might stay at her home while Maya stays with MC so that would need rendering but bedroom scenes are relatively uncomplicated.

The biggest commitment as I see it would be M&J as a secret couple with MC as their friend but still crushing on Josy. They both head ho,e to see their respective families but hang out together and get uncomfortably close.
 

JohnDelfino

Member
Mar 27, 2020
169
414
Of course they can develope feelings for you even when you are not really interested on them, those things happen all the time. But the MC have like 6 obvious LI and me as a player expect some agency on chosing who am I interested in. I just want to end things with Josy and make every choice available to avoid any kind of love relationship with her, but in the end not only she's still interested on me (as I said, this can happen) but I have to read the MC (me!) having doubts about it and trapping himself in an emotional trap that I just want to avoid and that could be easily avoided just by having an honest conversation with her. I mean, I just want to be able to tell her politely to fuck off, but I can't because it's the main story of the game. OK, if the game were exclusively about that relationship I wouldn't mind and I would try to live with it and act accordingly (as I did in AL when I saw Megan relationship was kind of mandatory), but when I have plenty of other options available I just can't stand being forced into one of them.

Edit.- TL;DR: probably my main issue is not that some situations aren't avoidable, but that the way they are written makes me feel I'm not really controlling the MC. I'm behaving in a certain way to avoid a certain relationship, I'm constantly choosing to ignore a certain character, but the very own MC seems to be oblivious of why I'm doing that, although it should be quite obvious that I'm not interested in her
Choose to be friends at library
Don't help Josy with her dad
Tell Derek you no longer have feelings for them
?????
Profit

I'm not really seeing everybodies problem here. If you reject the LI then you are no longer pursuing them, who cares if they are still hung up on MC. If DPC gives another chance to get back on their path, reject them again. But the MC is now friends with all 5, 3 are in a sorority with close ties to the MC's fraternity and 1 is the sister of the only friend the MC has that he didn't want to fuck, it would be weird if they suddenly disappeared form the game.
 

ename144

Engaged Member
Sep 20, 2018
3,208
13,378
If I wasn't an idiot and hadn't overwritten by Chick save I wouldn't have remembered either.

___________________ More of a general comment not aimed at you _________________________

Reading the comments over the last couple of pages it seems like the complaints are from people who are actively trying to make the game not work. If that's what you want to do then fine but to complain about things not working afterwards come across as shitty to me. This isn't an RPG with the player as a blank canvas, he has a history and personality which has been defined by it. He's not yet the finished article (who is at 18?) so we the players can install some mods but we can't rewrite the source code, metaphorically speaking.

As a player I am remembering that if your partner is 1 in 1,000,000 then there are 3,500 people just like them. I am therefore playing with the assumption that the Affinity metre works as a compatability metre so that the best final girl is the one who is alligned with the MC once it's been whittled down to a single point; it's then up to the player whether you choose to be with them or not and that's your happy or sad ending.

In summary, I believe that playing for a particular girl is a flawed strategy, you should instead play as close to yourself as the story allows and get whoever turns out to be the best girl for your version of the MC.
I don't think that's the problem, at least not directly. I do think people sometimes expect more out of the game than is realistic (in terms of it reflecting all the choices we make), and I also think the game is occasionally too heavy handed when keeping the story moving. But I think the fundamental problem of forced romance is specific to Maya and Josy; in particular, it's specific to our old nemesis, that damn library scene.

Consider Sage's scene in Episode 5. No matter how often you turn down her advances, you are still forced to talk to her in Tybalt's room, get schooled on how fraternities are supposed to work, open up to her about the MC's dead mother, and have her make another pass at the MC. Even if you don't have sex with her, it's pretty clear she and the MC enjoy each other's company. So why is it we almost never hear anyone complaining about being railroaded into friendship with Sage?

While I'm sure it helps that she will validate the MC's choices when rejected ("If you're not gay, I'm sure the girl you really want will appreciate the fuck out of you"), I think the key is that her relationship was never plot critical. The MC will meet and hang out with Sage no matter what, but at no point will he truly invest himself in a relationship with her. Thus we as the player are free to decide how much we like Sage on our own. If we like Sage, we can see more of her and the MC will naturally grow even closer. But if we don't pursue Sage, she remains at a distance; the MC's relationship with her is unchanged, and he only considers her when she is relevant to the story at hand.

Maya and (to a slightly lesser extent) Josy did not work that way. The MC's relationship with them dominates the early game. Maya is on screen constantly, and the MC's relationship with her continues to develop no matter how much you try to avoid her. Josy is rarely onscreen but the MC thinks of her frequently, each time ruminating on how important she is. The game makes it absolutely clear that the relationships with Maya and Josy take precedence over the other girls in the MC's mind.

I suspect that was at least partially intentional, because the focus on those two helps sell the sense of confusion and betrayal the MC feels when Josy arrives at the end of Episode 3. Unfortunately, I don't think DPC realized just how wide the shadow of that focus was, because the library scene (and much of their subsequent behavior in Episode 5) only makes sense if one assumes the MC's interest in them is just as casual as the rest of the girls.

That, IMHO, is why the issues about being unable to tell Maya and/or Josy 'fuck off and die,' or my own complaints about "no strings attached" keep coming up. The game relentlessly built up the two up as the MC's most important relationships, put them in direct opposition to each other, and drove the MC to a borderline existential crisis... then insisted the problem was resolved and exploring the aftermath could get back in line and wait like everyone else. Nothing more to see here!

People who really like M&J are annoyed because they feel it cheapens the importance of the decision to form a triangle. People who hated M&J are annoyed because they never got to articulate their anger and are now stuck with (at best) ghosting the two whenever possible. And people who were only interested in one of them (or just tired of the whole matter) are stonewalled because the game refuses to examine what really happened or why.

The underlying matters weren't properly resolved, and thus they continue to haunt new content that assumes it's all just water under the bridge. Until we can finally work out the situation with them once and for all, the problem will remain. Maybe that will change if and when the MC's relationship with one of the other girls (sexual or otherwise) takes center stage for a full episode. But until something really shakes up the game dynamics again, I think M&J will continue to be a lightning rod, directly or indirectly.
 

ename144

Engaged Member
Sep 20, 2018
3,208
13,378
I don’t see Quinn trying to depose sage. If someone tries to depose sage it’ll be heather.
I don’t see any threesome happening with Sage.
I'll split the difference. I think Heather is likely to try to depose Sage on Quinn's behalf.
 

AvatarStormBringer

Well-Known Member
Dec 20, 2019
1,213
1,262
I don't think that's the problem, at least not directly. I do think people sometimes expect more out of the game than is realistic (in terms of it reflecting all the choices we make), and I also think the game is occasionally too heavy handed when keeping the story moving. But I think the fundamental problem of forced romance is specific to Maya and Josy; in particular, it's specific to our old nemesis, that damn library scene.

Consider Sage's scene in Episode 5. No matter how often you turn down her advances, you are still forced to talk to her in Tybalt's room, get schooled on how fraternities are supposed to work, open up to her about the MC's dead mother, and have her make another pass at the MC. Even if you don't have sex with her, it's pretty clear she and the MC enjoy each other's company. So why is it we almost never hear anyone complaining about being railroaded into friendship with Sage?

While I'm sure it helps that she will validate the MC's choices when rejected ("If you're not gay, I'm sure the girl you really want will appreciate the fuck out of you"), I think the key is that her relationship was never plot critical. The MC will meet and hang out with Sage no matter what, but at no point will he truly invest himself in a relationship with her. Thus we as the player are free to decide how much we like Sage on our own. If we like Sage, we can see more of her and the MC will naturally grow even closer. But if we don't pursue Sage, she remains at a distance; the MC's relationship with her is unchanged, and he only considers her when she is relevant to the story at hand.

Maya and (to a slightly lesser extent) Josy did not work that way. The MC's relationship with them dominates the early game. Maya is on screen constantly, and the MC's relationship with her continues to develop no matter how much you try to avoid her. Josy is rarely onscreen but the MC thinks of her frequently, each time ruminating on how important she is. The game makes it absolutely clear that the relationships with Maya and Josy take precedence over the other girls in the MC's mind.

I suspect that was at least partially intentional, because the focus on those two helps sell the sense of confusion and betrayal the MC feels when Josy arrives at the end of Episode 3. Unfortunately, I don't think DPC realized just how wide the shadow of that focus was, because the library scene (and much of their subsequent behavior in Episode 5) only makes sense if one assumes the MC's interest in them is just as casual as the rest of the girls.

That, IMHO, is why the issues about being unable to tell Maya and/or Josy 'fuck off and die,' or my own complaints about "no strings attached" keep coming up. The game relentlessly built up the two up as the MC's most important relationships, put them in direct opposition to each other, and drove the MC to a borderline existential crisis... then insisted the problem was resolved and exploring the aftermath could get back in line and wait like everyone else. Nothing more to see here!

People who really like M&J are annoyed because they feel it cheapens the importance of the decision to form a triangle. People who hated M&J are annoyed because they never got to articulate their anger and are now stuck with (at best) ghosting the two whenever possible. And people who were only interested in one of them (or just tired of the whole matter) are stonewalled because the game refuses to examine what really happened or why.

The underlying matters weren't properly resolved, and thus they continue to haunt new content that assumes it's all just water under the bridge. Until we can finally work out the situation with them once and for all, the problem will remain. Maybe that will change if and when the MC's relationship with one of the other girls (sexual or otherwise) takes center stage for a full episode. But until something really shakes up the game dynamics again, I think M&J will continue to be a lightning rod, directly or indirectly.
IMHO, I feel that almost everyone forget one fundamental fact. You are playing a VN made with Ren'Py. You are not playing an open world game. This is not The Witcher or Dragon Age. However, I do understand that everyone sees flaws in the game that just makes almost everyone cringe and wanted to debate and give ideas on how should the game be improved. If DPC is still lurking in this thread I am sure he will greatly benefit from all the things mentioned in here. Since the game is unfinished, either he already has everything planned in the upcoming episodes or he can take pointers and try to resolve all the glaring plot holes mentioned.

Sometimes in order to make the game progress, some story points cannot be avoided. Sometimes certain things can be sadly limited due to available resources, such as manpower and engine. Granted with proper planning and writing these things can be minimized. I can say that this game, especially Episode 5, has unlimited gameplay hours if you are happy with punching Tybalt for hours.
 

Johnnyboy11

Newbie
Oct 6, 2017
31
35
I don't think that's the problem, at least not directly. I do think people sometimes expect more out of the game than is realistic (in terms of it reflecting all the choices we make), and I also think the game is occasionally too heavy handed when keeping the story moving. But I think the fundamental problem of forced romance is specific to Maya and Josy; in particular, it's specific to our old nemesis, that damn library scene.

Consider Sage's scene in Episode 5. No matter how often you turn down her advances, you are still forced to talk to her in Tybalt's room, get schooled on how fraternities are supposed to work, open up to her about the MC's dead mother, and have her make another pass at the MC. Even if you don't have sex with her, it's pretty clear she and the MC enjoy each other's company. So why is it we almost never hear anyone complaining about being railroaded into friendship with Sage?

While I'm sure it helps that she will validate the MC's choices when rejected ("If you're not gay, I'm sure the girl you really want will appreciate the fuck out of you"), I think the key is that her relationship was never plot critical. The MC will meet and hang out with Sage no matter what, but at no point will he truly invest himself in a relationship with her. Thus we as the player are free to decide how much we like Sage on our own. If we like Sage, we can see more of her and the MC will naturally grow even closer. But if we don't pursue Sage, she remains at a distance; the MC's relationship with her is unchanged, and he only considers her when she is relevant to the story at hand.

Maya and (to a slightly lesser extent) Josy did not work that way. The MC's relationship with them dominates the early game. Maya is on screen constantly, and the MC's relationship with her continues to develop no matter how much you try to avoid her. Josy is rarely onscreen but the MC thinks of her frequently, each time ruminating on how important she is. The game makes it absolutely clear that the relationships with Maya and Josy take precedence over the other girls in the MC's mind.

I suspect that was at least partially intentional, because the focus on those two helps sell the sense of confusion and betrayal the MC feels when Josy arrives at the end of Episode 3. Unfortunately, I don't think DPC realized just how wide the shadow of that focus was, because the library scene (and much of their subsequent behavior in Episode 5) only makes sense if one assumes the MC's interest in them is just as casual as the rest of the girls.

That, IMHO, is why the issues about being unable to tell Maya and/or Josy 'fuck off and die,' or my own complaints about "no strings attached" keep coming up. The game relentlessly built up the two up as the MC's most important relationships, put them in direct opposition to each other, and drove the MC to a borderline existential crisis... then insisted the problem was resolved and exploring the aftermath could get back in line and wait like everyone else. Nothing more to see here!

People who really like M&J are annoyed because they feel it cheapens the importance of the decision to form a triangle. People who hated M&J are annoyed because they never got to articulate their anger and are now stuck with (at best) ghosting the two whenever possible. And people who were only interested in one of them (or just tired of the whole matter) are stonewalled because the game refuses to examine what really happened or why.

The underlying matters weren't properly resolved, and thus they continue to haunt new content that assumes it's all just water under the bridge. Until we can finally work out the situation with them once and for all, the problem will remain. Maybe that will change if and when the MC's relationship with one of the other girls (sexual or otherwise) takes center stage for a full episode. But until something really shakes up the game dynamics again, I think M&J will continue to be a lightning rod, directly or indirectly.
Boring
 

Manuka

✨Ghostwriter✨
Donor
Sep 17, 2019
312
2,454
DPC is not Martin, that's for sure, and the story is not that deep. But considering that I think the characters feel like they have their own personalities and act accordingly, except certain library scene... :ROFLMAO:

The story can become complex, though. If the tribetas are the ones behind Chad's blackmail and all that. It has the
IMHO and really just my opinion here,

I can totally understand the "retcon" of the library scene in ep.5.
I don't know about you guys, but is it really that farfetched that even after saying "I just want to be friends" there is still emotional baggage still in the air?

And Josy and Mayas reaction especially are very relatable.
Josy feels like she had no choice to hang on to the friendship even though she clearly had feelings for the MC. So once the friendship was offered she latched on to it since not doing so would potentially mean she would have lost Maya and MC.
Maya was also always attracted to MC and the talk in the room afterwards where MC pledges his loyalty can understandably be confusing, considering the fact they were almost lovers about 2-4 days (!) ago.

The only inconsistent factor is the MC since it is a projected character of yourself, so I get that some people already ended their relationship with Maya and Josy after Chapter 4 library scene (Some even before) in their head, but I absolutely do understand why Maya/Josy/MC act and think that way in chapter 5. It's just almost impossible to get closure after 1 day.
Even though I do see, why people think that it is off.
It seems to be it's Josy that will be the one to keep latching onto the MC, not Maya. There are several ways the scenes can go, but in each direction chosen it still has a "conflicted" or "uncertain" feeling when it comes to Josy, despite professing her love for Maya. It's very possible the creator decided to make Josy or Jill his unicorn in this entire storyline. And in the end, those two would be hardest to choose from--imo.

That's another valid point. The time frame in this game so far is very short. And it's unrealistic how much is going on within the episodes in such a minuscule amount of time. I can't believe people are paying $30+ per month just to get a snippet of a difference in the game. They'll be broke by the time the MC is done with college.
 
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