VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [DrPinkCake]

[mindern]

That's not the point. We are not talking about the future, since nobody knows the plans of the dev, but about the chapters already released. The debate was about the more logical path of the MC to be as coherent as possible with the initial premise of the game and the things the MC has done so far in the plot and don´t depend of the choices of the player: becoming a full member of DIKs, leading them in the task of repairing the house, taking the initiative of talking with Cathy and trying to fix the problem with the leaked photo, etc.

Fine, then full DIK or neutral isn’t the way because the DIKs aren’t a street gang or pack of wolves.

All this “alpha” shit people are spewing isn’t how you run a business… and the frat is a business as Sage makes clear.

A logical leader of the DIKs plays the game. He knows the frat exists at the universities discretion. He knows he needs money from brothers (either directly via working or in their fees) and alumni. He knows the police can and will shut them down.

Look how Burke came down on Chad for one fist fight? The frats are a specific business operating in a system more stringent with its rules than regular society.

The “logical” leader of the frat would be all the things Sage talks about. An ass kisser for when alumni turn up. A rule follower. He would play the game, collect fees and avoid getting the place shut down.

DIKs aren’t some military squad from a video game. All this “alpha” stuff and “charisma” are insignificant and have little impact.

You can’t fight city hall. A well known idiom. Bureaucracy isn’t gonna give a shit how the MC handles himself in a fight or how many girls he can fuck in an evening. Nepotism isn’t gonna suddenly favour him because he smoked weed on a rooftop. Remaining financially solvent isn’t achieved by cheating on exams and fingering girls in swimming pools. These systems respond to the behaviour exhibited by a CHICK MC.

We all like to think an “alpha” makes a good leader… it doesn’t. Not in reality and not for someone as insignificant as a frat leader. Playing “the game” and doing what society wants is how you get places. A sad truth but the logic is we’re talking about the leader of a bunch of teenagers operating under the permission of a university. The defining trait they need is doing what that university wants. A DIK doesn’t do that.

 

[felicemastronzo]

.
Just in the recent episode, tell me which is more of a Better Leader quality .
A Dik MC who selfishly Accept the Pink Rose VIP Ticket, when their mansion is trash, and desperately need every penny to fix it. - BTW Derek reject it if he won .
or the "Chick " MC Who reject the reward , because they need the money more than anything.
and MC who pick the Elder home, because its actually pay better that is the most logical choice.
Who would you respect more ?
just for you interest, the Rusty, the leader pick the elder home, to show an example , and you gain +rp point with the Diks also if you volunteer.
Who you respect more, a guy, who accept quinn offer to be able to have sex. or a guy, who can Charm , womans like Bella, girls like Josy, Jill, Sage.
Yeah standing up for yourself and fighting give you respect, you can slip those decisions, I do. But to Say that a Chick MC would not gain respect and not make sense is a far stretch, IMO. not to mention most of them is just a "wannabe alpha". freeloaders, leechers who enjoyed Rusty's dad money. and Jacob was such a pussy he was not dare to make a move on a girl, unless you cleared the path for him. .

but i guess if you only think black and white system, Massive this or that, you might think the way you think. But the affinity can only be Chick and neutral and Dik, there might be a scale, but it not really affect anything. I think there was only one time, or 2 where the actula Massive Dik or Huge dik, scale come in to play . and they were pretty much meaningless lewd moments, unimportant for the main story.

but to be fair, that is the only CHICK decision that brings advantages with DIKs.
and it's also a decision that DPC urges you to reject (if you give me a VIP pass, it makes me curious to find out what I'll find there)

In the other cases it tends to be the DIK decisions that pay more in terms of the esteem of the DIK brothers:
beating up a Jock is always a merit
celebrating madly at the pink rose leads to get Nichole's autograph
accepting a joint from Tommy leads to public sex.
Accepting Jade's courtship leads to sex with a teacher.
Also in chapter seven, kicking the Jocks out of the party allows Jacob to have fun.


it's hard to imagine that the DIKS would prefer an MC who behaves in the opposite way.

I find mindern 's hypothesis interesting, I don't believe in it very much, but it would be a really nice twist if at a certain point the DIKs in front of an excessively nonchalant MC would turn their backs on him and choose Tommy, because crazy for crazy we might as well choose the one with the most seniority

 

[mindern]

but to be fair, that is the only CHICK decision that brings advantages with DIKs.
and it's also a decision that DPC urges you to reject (if you give me a VIP pass, it makes me curious to find out what I'll find there)

In the other cases it tends to be the DIK decisions that pay more in terms of the esteem of the DIK brothers:
beating up a Jock is always a merit
celebrating madly at the pink rose leads to get Nichole's autograph
accepting a joint from Tommy leads to public sex.
Accepting Jade's courtship leads to sex with a teacher.
Also in chapter seven, kicking the Jocks out of the party allows Jacob to have fun.


it's hard to imagine that the DIKS would prefer an MC who behaves in the opposite way.

I find mindern 's hypothesis interesting, I don't believe in it very much, but it would be a really nice twist if at a certain point the DIKs in front of an excessively nonchalant MC would turn their backs on him and choose Tommy, because crazy for crazy we might as well choose the one with the most seniority

To be fair is the DIKs liking him the central element of a leader? Ideally everyone would love their leader. But you can’t always do what people like. Sometimes being a leader means making decisions people don’t like.

It’s a common mistake leaders make. Caring about what their subordinates think of them. It’s obviously a factor but a leader who prioritises their subordinates liking them over what’s best for the group as a whole isn’t a good leader.

Every boss could make their staff love them by just letting them do what ever they like, pay them to play video games. That isn’t a good leader.

Sage goes into it, running a frat is more than just being friends and decisions the DIKs individually like isn’t always what’s best for the frat.

does getting a Jacob laid make up for upsetting the Jocks? Pushing them in the pool and such. A leader would diffuse that situation so nobody trashes their house again. Sure, Jacob would appreciate getting laid but good leadership isn’t always about making people happy.

 

[Nattrack]

Fine, then full DIK or neutral isn’t the way because the DIKs aren’t a street gang or pack of wolves.

All this “alpha” shit people are spewing isn’t how you run a business… and the frat is a business as Sage makes clear.

A logical leader of the DIKs plays the game. He knows the frat exists at the universities discretion. He knows he needs money from brothers (either directly via working or in their fees) and alumni. He knows the police can and will shut them down.

Look how Burke came down on Chad for one fist fight? The frats are a specific business operating in a system more stringent with its rules than regular society.

The “logical” leader of the frat would be all the things Sage talks about. An ass kisser for when alumni turn up. A rule follower. He would play the game, collect fees and avoid getting the place shut down.

DIKs aren’t some military squad from a video game. All this “alpha” stuff and “charisma” are insignificant and have little impact.

You can’t fight city hall. A well known idiom. Bureaucracy isn’t gonna give a shit how the MC handles himself in a fight or how many girls he can fuck in an evening. Nepotism isn’t gonna suddenly favour him because he smoked weed on a rooftop. Remaining financially solvent isn’t achieved by cheating on exams and fingering girls in swimming pools. These systems respond to the behaviour exhibited by a CHICK MC.

We all like to think an “alpha” makes a good leader… it doesn’t. Not in reality and not for someone as insignificant as a frat leader. Playing “the game” and doing what society wants is how you get places. A sad truth but the logic is we’re talking about the leader of a bunch of teenagers operating under the permission of a university. The defining trait they need is doing what that university wants. A DIK doesn’t do that.

That's not the point either. You have to play according the internal logical of the game and the options the game gives to you, not according what you thing a good leader would be. For example, you can´t be an "ass kisser for when alumni turn up" in this game so far. There is no "fighting the city hall" in this game so far. You are talking about things that are not in the game. I´m talking about things that are in the game.

The point is: how a new guy in a frat like the DIKs can be plausibly their unofficial leader after only some hours since he entered in the frat? Which one would be the more logical path, according the events of the game from the beginning?

And yes, if you think in a logical way, the MC would need to be respected by the DIKs when he gives them the speech to stop crying and start working in the repairs of the house. That kind of speech, if not comes from a guy with personal charisma and that has gained the respect of his pairs, would not be heard. Remember that the MC is the "new guy". There are senior members of the frat. Nobody expects that the "new guy" in a organization starts leading when there is a big problem. If the MC can do it, logically, is because he has earned already the respect of the other members. By being a DIK. That's the most logical path: start the game as a CHIK, then suffer humiliations and disappointments, learning from those, growing a pair and becoming a DIK: a guy that doesn´t avoid conflicts if they come, is not afraid to fight if he has to, specially against the enemies of the frat and his brothers, and actively get pussies. That the essence of the DIK fraternity in a nutshell, after all, and the traits that the other DIKs would admire and respect.

 

[Heycock]

One of the most important assets of a good leader is not to fuck every girl insight. That's not a leader material, is an aashole who most of people wants to break his head. Licking Ashley pussy, fucking Heather, fucking Maya and Josy... that wouldnt work. And you can see the results... the whole fucking Arieth almoast detroy the DIKs.

 

[felicemastronzo]

To be fair is the DIKs liking him the central element of a leader? Ideally everyone would love their leader. But you can’t always do what people like. Sometimes being a leader means making decisions people don’t like.

It’s a common mistake leaders make. Caring about what their subordinates think of them. It’s obviously a factor but a leader who prioritises their subordinates liking them over what’s best for the group as a whole isn’t a good leader.

Every boss could make their staff love them by just letting them do what ever they like, pay them to play video games. That isn’t a good leader.

Sage goes into it, running a frat is more than just being friends and decisions the DIKs individually like isn’t always what’s best for the frat.

does getting a Jacob laid make up for upsetting the Jocks? Pushing them in the pool and such. A leader would diffuse that situation so nobody trashes their house again. Sure, Jacob would appreciate getting laid but good leadership isn’t always about making people happy.

in absolute terms you would also be right, but also the chronicle is full of politicians who do nothing but promise what the people want and don't fight for what they need. and it seems to me that they are quite successful around the world

and if this is true in real life let alone in a context like that of BADIK, what does a DIK want from its president/leader if not simply that he organises parties with lots of beautiful girls present? what other great tasks would the president of a fraternity have?

it seems to me that even in Sage's activity a big part is always to organize parties or make sure that HOTs are invited to these parties.

one thing is the leader they would need, another is what they would want. if Rusty's father had continued to pay Mc he could have continued to keep his speech in his pocket

 

[Nattrack]

One of the most important assets of a good leader is not to fuck every girl insight. That's not a leader material, is an aashole who most of people wants to break his head. Licking Ashley pussy, fucking Heather, fucking Maya and Josy... that wouldnt work. And you can see the results... the whole fucking Arieth almoast detroy the DIKs.

OK. You are talking about things that would do a MASSIVE DIK. We have already said that that's not the premise. I said in my previous comments that the more logical path for the MC would be start like a CHIK at first, and after the first week more o less, slowly (at first) evolve to a DIK, not a MASSIVE DIK or a HUGE DIK. That's the premise we were debating about.

 

[JaZy2]

Excuse me if this has already been answered, but can we get Lily if MC is a Pure CHICK ? and are there some advantages if MC is Chick instead of Dik when pursuing Lily?
My sincere thanks to everyone who answered.

 

[mindern]

That's not the point either. You have to play according the internal logical of the game and the options the game gives to you, not according what you thing a good leader would be. For example, you can´t be an "ass kisser for when alumni turn up" in this game so far. There is no "fighting the city hall" in this game so far. You are talking about things that are not in the game. I´m talking about things that are in the game.

And yes, if you think in a logical way, the MC would need to be respected by the DIKs when he gives them the speech to stop crying and start working in the repairs of the house. That kind of speech, if not comes from a guy with personal charisma and that has gained the respect of his pairs, would not be heard. Remember that the MC is the "new guy". There are senior members of the frat. Nobody expects that the "new guy" in a organization starts leading when there is a big problem. If the MC can do it, logically, is because he has earned already the respect of the other members. By being a DIK. That's the most logical path: start the game as a CHIK, then suffer humiliations and disappointments, learning from those, growing a pair and becoming a DIK: a guy that doesn´t avoid conflicts if they come, is not afraid to fight if he has to, specially against the enemies of the frat and his brothers, and actively get pussies. That the essence of the DIK fraternity in a nutshell, after all, and the traits that the other DIKs would admire and respect.

So in your restrictive scenario the best route is neutral. Because we’re not picking what is actually sensible we’re using existing knowledge of the outcomes to pick what’s best based on what we know to be the outcome of our choices. Being DIK, neutral or CHICK isn’t “logically” better. There’s no logic here because we’re dealing with a known quantity. This shits axiomatic.

it’s just choosing whatever choice we know to be best because that’s how DPC wrote it. It isn’t “logical” to throw a brick at a cow to open a car door but if DPC wrote the scene in such a way that MC throwing a brick caused the door to open… then that’s obviously the best choice. Logic isn’t coming into this if we’re not extrapolating into the future or outside of the story.

I got confused by the use of the word “logically”. As in I thought we had to extrapolate using logic. Combine things we know to create something we don’t know. There’s no logic to working out what route is best as of right now if you don’t want anyone discussing things we don’t know… with no assumptions about the future because DPC wrote this game. We know what route is “best” depending on the criteria we choose for what is “best”.

Neutral gives you the flexibility to jump onto whatever unique train of thought DPC used. So… neutral.

Edit: I’ve thought about it, the best route is the one where the MC save scums the mini game for rebuilding the mansion so you get the jobs that pay enough to already have the mansions windows fixed.

This is my point. The games outcomes aren’t based on logic they’re based on whatever DPC decides. The “logic” to being the best leader comes down to if you’re willing to reload a mini game so the good jobs come up.

Out of every possible game state we have, in my opinion the most impactful is having windows and being able to party again. In terms of all the arbitrary criteria on what makes a good leader you’ve put forward the best leader is the one save scumming.

this is the issue with your question if you can’t extrapolate. It comes down to cold hard flags in the games code.

 

[AchedCroissant]

One of the most important assets of a good leader is not to fuck every girl insight. That's not a leader material, is an aashole who most of people wants to break his head. Licking Ashley pussy, fucking Heather, fucking Maya and Josy... that wouldnt work. And you can see the results... the whole fucking Arieth almoast detroy the DIKs.

Leader is a person who, with training in project leadership or not, managing a specific team or group of people, is capable of influencing, motivating and making all team members work with enthusiasm focused every day on achieving achievements. goals and objectives.

 

[Heycock]

OK. You are talking about things that would do a MASSIVE DIK. We have already said that that's not the premise. I said in my previous comments that the more logical path for the MC would be start like a CHIK at first, and after the first week more o less, slowly (at first) evolve to a DIK, not a MASSIVE DIK or a HUGE DIK. That's the premise we were debating about.

And once you take out the unnecesary sheet against Josy and Maya, the whole chick into dik thing has some sense. But the leader thing... Maybe a moderate DIK, and mostly couse its part of that subgroup culture, to fit in. But one of the most important traits of a leader of that dimension, of a small group of people with no clear jearchy is to not be selfish. You need to compensate couse people already resent you couse your position.

 

[Darkdevil66]

Excuse me if this has already been answered, but can we get Lily if MC is a Pure CHICK ? and are there some advantages if MC is Chick instead of Dik when pursuing Lily?
My sincere thanks to everyone who answered.

Yes, you can get the blowbjob for free with a chick affinity in ep5 during the prep party. You won't be able to help her with her task in ep6 but you'll have the opportunity to fuck her in ep7, if you previously kissed her in ep5.

 

[ChipLecsap]

but to be fair, that is the only CHICK decision that brings advantages with DIKs.
and it's also a decision that DPC urges you to reject (if you give me a VIP pass, it makes me curious to find out what I'll find there)

In the other cases it tends to be the DIK decisions that pay more in terms of the esteem of the DIK brothers:
beating up a Jock is always a merit
celebrating madly at the pink rose leads to get Nichole's autograph
accepting a joint from Tommy leads to public sex.
Accepting Jade's courtship leads to sex with a teacher.
Also in chapter seven, kicking the Jocks out of the party allows Jacob to have fun.


it's hard to imagine that the DIKS would prefer an MC who behaves in the opposite way.

I find mindern 's hypothesis interesting, I don't believe in it very much, but it would be a really nice twist if at a certain point the DIKs in front of an excessively nonchalant MC would turn their backs on him and choose Tommy, because crazy for crazy we might as well choose the one with the most seniority

I disagree. The major problem with this analysis is what MandalayRoad doing. Identifying the Delta Iota Kappa aka Dik, with the Dik affinity scale . and I seem to remember we come to the conclusion it's not the case . surely, the decisions you mentioned are having an effect on the other members, thanks to the fact that they are a bunch of pussy. to them some of these actions are impressive because they don't have the balls to do it. We got Jamie as a member, who dating with a feminist, basically a beta around her, writing poets , and he is a gardener.
But a chick MC who stand up and tell them this is how we got the shit done , opposing to Tommy whose solution is "Demand more money from your Dad", would not be respected is not believable to me, based on the actual members of the Dik fraternity.

The idea of MC start as a Chick and end up as a Dik , is something I dont see. MC start from Zero, and he gain confident regardless of him getting his cock signed by a striper or not . Hell, even the moment when MC stand up, and go visit Cathy to try to fix things, is more of a Chick mature person actions, and not a "I'm here for the pussy " Dik personality .

There are things in the game that make more sense if you play in a certain way, The Josy & Maya thing makes more sense if you are indeed on their path, otherwise you can kind of feel like, why the fuck I need to bother with this. Jill Tennis date with Tybalt, is kind of the same . So yeah there are these things, but the Chick, Neutral, Dik affinity things is not one of them, because the Dik scale, is not represent the Dik fraternity. That is not what the story is about.

 

[ezio2310]

Nice game.I can't wait next Ep.

 

[felicemastronzo]

I disagree. The major problem with this analysis is what MandalayRoad doing. Identifying the Delta Iota Kappa aka Dik, with the Dik affinity scale . and I seem to remember we come to the conclusion it's not the case . surely, the decisions you mentioned are having an effect on the other members, thanks to the fact that they are a bunch of pussy. to them some of these actions are impressive because they don't have the balls to do it. We got Jamie as a member, who dating with a feminist, basically a beta around her, writing poets , and he is a gardener.
But a chick MC who stand up and tell them this is how we got the shit done , opposing to Tommy whose solution is "Demand more money from your Dad", would not be respected is not believable to me, based on the actual members of the Dik fraternity.

The idea of MC start as a Chick and end up as a Dik , is something I dont see. MC start from Zero, and he gain confident regardless of him getting his cock signed by a striper or not . Hell, even the moment when MC stand up, and go visit Cathy to try to fix things, is more of a Chick mature person actions, and not a "I'm here for the pussy " Dik personality .

There are things in the game that make more sense if you play in a certain way, The Josy & Maya thing makes more sense if you are indeed on their path, otherwise you can kind of feel like, why the fuck I need to bother with this. Jill Tennis date with Tybalt, is kind of the same . So yeah there are these things, but the Chick, Neutral, Dik affinity things is not one of them, because the Dik scale, is not represent the Dik fraternity. That is not what the story is about.

I was just responding to the argument that a DIK would appreciate a CHICK choice more than a DIK choice and I don't think that's the case.

I didn't follow the previous speech, I don't agree with MandalayRoad 's idea because it assumes there is a right way to play the game, which I don't like as a principle. the path in the game remains free, every choice will have advantages and disadvantages, but I don't see any obligatory stage. then the preferred ending depends on taste.
finishing college by having sex with Quinn and Jade for me is a good ending, even if outside the trouple for example

then i agree with you that certain scenes only make sense if played in a certain way, but that's a limitation of the story. if there are no consequences to certain choices it can't be the fault of the player who makes them

if Mc still runs away when Josy arrives even though he just had sex with Quinn and Riona it's DPC's fault, not mine as a player.
Similarly if after having sex with all the HOTs, MC still fears being a rebound guy again it's DPC's fault.

 

[mindern]

I was just responding to the argument that a DIK would appreciate a CHICK choice more than a DIK choice and I don't think that's the case.

I didn't follow the previous speech, I don't agree with MandalayRoad 's idea because it assumes there is a right way to play the game, which I don't like as a principle. the path in the game remains free, every choice will have advantages and disadvantages, but I don't see any obligatory stage. then the preferred ending depends on taste.
finishing college by having sex with Quinn and Jade for me is a good ending, even if outside the trouple for example

then i agree with you that certain scenes only make sense if played in a certain way, but that's a limitation of the story. if there are no consequences to certain choices it can't be the fault of the player who makes them

if Mc still runs away when Josy arrives even though he just had sex with Quinn and Riona it's DPC's fault, not mine as a player.
Similarly if after having sex with all the HOTs, MC still fears being a rebound guy again it's DPC's fault.

That’s the problem with people restricting this whole discussion to what’s explicitly in game. It stops being about logic and human behaviour and starts being about what DPC coded.

We have to extrapolate to have any worthwhile discussion. It’s like I said in an edit above, we have a bunch of pages about what makes the best leader? So far the only impactful decision is whether you save scum the mini games to already have the windows fixed. That isn’t a narrative choice that’s metagaming the shoddy systems DPC made.

 

[dalli_x]

That's not the point. We are not talking about the future, since nobody knows the plans of the dev, but about the chapters already released. The debate was about the more logical path of the MC to be as coherent as possible with the initial premise of the game and the things the MC has done so far in the plot and don´t depend of the choices of the player: becoming a full member of DIKs, leading them in the task of repairing the house, taking the initiative of talking with Cathy and trying to fix the problem with the leaked photo, etc.

The developer's premise will be, play a full DIK as long as you want, have fun and impregnate as many girls as you want.

In the end, I'll punch you in the face for it.

 

[Nemo56]

The developer's premise will be, play a full DIK as long as you want, have fun and impregnate as many girls as you want.

This sounds SO much like the movie Idiocracy.

 

[Nattrack]

It seems this conversation is going out of the original theme of my first comment "which one would be the most logical path for the MC" (that I think most of you didn´t read ) or has turned into a bucle. I have responded most of your reasonings in that first comment and the others, so I think this is a good moment to stop it, at least for me. It has been an interesting debate, I think. Thanks to the participants

 

[PashafromRussia]

The developer's premise will be, play a full DIK as long as you want, have fun and impregnate as many girls as you want.

In the end, I'll punch you in the face for it.

Perhaps the idea of the developer is to talk about bullying in colleges, problems with drugs and drunkenness among young people and hazing for joining a student fraternity.