SpearOfReigns

Member
Nov 8, 2017
459
1,166
Replaying the best episode aka Episode 7, Quinn's line when meeting Tommy "Believe what you wanna believe, this ain't church" reminds of Tobey Spidey line in SpiderMan 3 "You want forgiveness? Get religion".

I wonder how common this view is.

To me, that stuff is what makes it a game. An individual element can be good or bad design, but I really want them to try. An animated choose-your-own-adventure story (which is usually pretty linear anyway) doesn't feel interactive. And if it's not interactive, why wouldn't I just watch a movie or read an actual book?
I share your view bro. Free-roams, mini-games, phones interaction (Rooster/Swyper) if done right can give you another level of storytelling and deep insight of BaDIK's world. But as we all know, not every free-roam or mini-game is exactly a hit. But the ones done right? That's what elevates this VN to its current level
 

ename144

Engaged Member
Sep 20, 2018
3,208
13,378
Am I the only one for whom the animations don't do much. In every single case there are clipping issues. On top of that, the repeatable nature of animations is just not that appealing to me. I'd rather have 5 more renders in different but well-done static positions, than 15 seconds of a meh loop, which can be replaced by a couple of renders for the same effect. Especially given the amount of effort animations take, it's just another bad trade-off.

Everything would have been different if there were additional developers. And while I understand the need for creative control, I just can't fathom the choices DPC is making in designing the game, with additional padding, grind and increasing use of animations, when he's the sole developer. It all seems like a bad trade-off for me as a player who, even for the game's faults, would like to finish it sooner, rather than later. On the other hand, as a creator it probably serves him better, since it extends the amount of time he can keep getting paid for this particular game. He's probably afraid that his next game would not be guaranteed the same success.
I find animations overrated as well. Unfortunately given DPC's computer hardware, they're actually a much more efficient option than a series of static renders because the statics render extremely quickly. The posing time for statics is a huge percentage of of their total time whereas animations can be queued up to render while DPC works on other things. This is why DPC will occasionally mention having animations in the queue, but the static queue stopped being a thing after Episode 6.

So we're likely to see even more animations going forward, but it's not as big a hit to the production time as you might think. It's not the way I want the world to work, but such is life.


I have no idea why then DPC replied to his patrons 3 three times saying that Jill was planned all along when he created the story. Suspicious....

"Jill was added in December 2018, just a couple of months before the game was first released"
I think it's a matter of context. Jill was still there "from the start," she just had a lot less time in the loosely organized, pre-production planning portion. The transition from original idea to working script is a long and complicated one. Jill wasn't there for the original idea, but was for the working script. So what DPC said is true, from a certain point of view. ;)

Didn't Ep1 release in Feb 2019 or was there some demo?
Feb 7, 2019, a couple months after the Q&A from DPC that was quoted. Jill would have been added to the story sometime before that, but probably not too much more. Jill's presence in Episode 1 is pretty tiny, so it's not like DPC would have had to halt production to integrate her into his existing work after he finished the working draft. Her addition was more about future content.


Chick MC, doesn't want to date Jill, forced to ask her out on a date anyway. Why am I forced? Only for reasons of drama, that will come back to bite you later on whether you actually like Jill or not. If DPC isn't manufacturing some future conflict then there is no reason to have an uninterested MC date Jill in the first place. It's the same reason DPC serves up an enticing buffet of LIs. You are being led into a manwhore trap. Whether it is Maya vs Josy, Sage vs Quinn, Bella vs Jill, or any main or side LI combination in between, DPC wants you to indulge yourself so he can pull the rug out from underneath you later on. I actually think he has a hard-on for dashing players' hopes and dreams. The Bella/Jill dynamic is one way to for him to fuck with even a purist player on a solo Bella route.

Back to the Jill date, look very closely at the only two choices you are given for why MC is doing it. There is no ambiguity. 1) Ask Jill out only to spite Tybalt. That's not a CHICK action at all. 2) Ask Jill out because you like her. Oh I'm sorry, I missed the part where I liked Jill and wanted to ask her out. It doesn't matter that later on MC decides he is not interested in Jill (welcome to the party MC, I was there ages ago), you still ask her out while you are on the Bella path. Not quite a CHICK action, eh? Trust me, DPC will use this date and anything you do beyond the date to punish you later in the story. You may say, well if you're on a Bella only path why would you care if Jill gets upset. Because when Jill gets upset, Bella will get upset and the chastity belt goes back on. MC will have to spend an episode or two convincing Bella to take it off again. Likely the same will happen when James returns.
I think we have to accept that there are always going to be some limitations on our actions. Even in a pen & paper RPG with a living, breathing GM, if you flat out refuse to participate in the story he/she has prepared, the game is eventually going to break apart at the seams. It's a question of degree: when the game offers your character a choice, there's a big difference between it having no plan whatsoever for the less likely choice and not having one specific option the player really wants.

I think DPC does a much better job than most handling choices though it's definitely not perfect; the resolution to the Maya/Josy crisis in Episode 4 is the poster child not getting it right, IMHO. By comparison, I think dating Jill is handled very well. Sure, you may have preferred that the MC just ignore Jill entirely, but she's clearly an important part of the game and can't be sidelined completely.

The question is if you can express clear interest in Jill as a friend rather than a romantic partner, and I'd say you can. One extremely chaste playing tennis is about as non-committal as it gets. Even Jill will recognize that the MC just doesn't seem that into her, and is willing to accept that they're only going to be friends.

Now it's true that Jill will almost certainly take the news of the MC hooking up with Bella poorly even in that case. But that's because she has a huge crush on him, and that's not something even the purest, noblest CHICK MC's could change. Again, what matters is that when we finally hit the breaking point, Jill's reaction to an MC who showed minimal interest in her has to be much calmer than her reaction to an MC who deliberately wooed her while pursuing Bella at the same time. I'll be shocked if that doesn't happen.

On the specific topic of asking Jill out, I'm going to have to disagree with you. The MC is a young boy, Jill is a pretty young girl, and Tybalt is a complete asshole. Even a CHICK MC who doesn't like Jill is going be bothered by Tybalt's attitude. It seems well within the MC's established personality to ask for a date rather than accept being humiliated. We are explicitly given the option to make the date about Tybalt rather than Jill, and the MC is under no obligation to make the date romantic. So at least to me, this feels like a successful implementation of choices in a computer game: the MC will take the mandated action, but we are allowed to choose WHY he does so and we can influence the eventual outcome of the that choice to match our stated motivations.
 

Kellermann

Engaged Member
Oct 20, 2020
3,614
11,662
Jill's reaction to an MC who showed minimal interest in her has to be much calmer than her reaction to an MC who deliberately wooed her while pursuing Bella at the same time.
You keep thinking that mate.

Meanwhile, DPC...

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There is no stopping the LI shitstorms of season 3. The clouds of despair will descend upon this land and strike down all those who foolishly stand before its mighty hand of vengeance. Even the purest of heart MC will know destruction in the name of...
...muh drama
 
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ename144

Engaged Member
Sep 20, 2018
3,208
13,378
You keep thinking that mate.

Meanwhile, DPC...

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

There is no stopping the LI shitstorms of season 3. The clouds of despair will descend upon this land and strike down all those who foolishly stand before its mighty hand of vengeance. Even the purest of heart MC will know destruction in the name of...
...muh drama
We're playing an X-rated soap opera. Drama is inevitable. But it doesn't have to be binary, and I have faith it will still turn out well in the end.

Though DPC certainly doesn't make that easy at times. :cautious:
 
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gamer8000

Member
May 24, 2020
148
94
Can't wait for the next release. Got enough songs already, don't need anymore. Should add sound for sex instead also don't need the previews after each Chapters.
 

thorin0815

Well-Known Member
Apr 16, 2020
1,766
4,596
I wonder how common this view is.

To me, that stuff is what makes it a game. An individual element can be good or bad design, but I really want them to try. An animated choose-your-own-adventure story (which is usually pretty linear anyway) doesn't feel interactive. And if it's not interactive, why wouldn't I just watch a movie or read an actual book?
I see visual novels as an, sometimes more - sometimes less, interactive form of a book. I like kinetic novels just as much, it doesn't always have to feel like a game to me, where I alone decide which path the MC takes. In my opinion, you don't have to reinvent the wheel and add additional features for a plot and its protagonists to captivate me. I also read books whenever I have time, one doesn't replace the other for me.
 

felicemastronzo

Devoted Member
May 17, 2020
11,170
21,831
I think we have to accept that there are always going to be some limitations on our actions. Even in a pen & paper RPG with a living, breathing GM, if you flat out refuse to participate in the story he/she has prepared, the game is eventually going to break apart at the seams. It's a question of degree: when the game offers your character a choice, there's a big difference between it having no plan whatsoever for the less likely choice and not having one specific option the player really wants.

I think DPC does a much better job than most handling choices though it's definitely not perfect; the resolution to the Maya/Josy crisis in Episode 4 is the poster child not getting it right, IMHO. By comparison, I think dating Jill is handled very well. Sure, you may have preferred that the MC just ignore Jill entirely, but she's clearly an important part of the game and can't be sidelined completely.

The question is if you can express clear interest in Jill as a friend rather than a romantic partner, and I'd say you can. One extremely chaste playing tennis is about as non-committal as it gets. Even Jill will recognize that the MC just doesn't seem that into her, and is willing to accept that they're only going to be friends.

Now it's true that Jill will almost certainly take the news of the MC hooking up with Bella poorly even in that case. But that's because she has a huge crush on him, and that's not something even the purest, noblest CHICK MC's could change. Again, what matters is that when we finally hit the breaking point, Jill's reaction to an MC who showed minimal interest in her has to be much calmer than her reaction to an MC who deliberately wooed her while pursuing Bella at the same time. I'll be shocked if that doesn't happen.

On the specific topic of asking Jill out, I'm going to have to disagree with you. The MC is a young boy, Jill is a pretty young girl, and Tybalt is a complete asshole. Even a CHICK MC who doesn't like Jill is going be bothered by Tybalt's attitude. It seems well within the MC's established personality to ask for a date rather than accept being humiliated. We are explicitly given the option to make the date about Tybalt rather than Jill, and the MC is under no obligation to make the date romantic. So at least to me, this feels like a successful implementation of choices in a computer game: the MC will take the mandated action, but we are allowed to choose WHY he does so and we can influence the eventual outcome of the that choice to match our stated motivations.
Given the mantra that 'choices matter', I expect that for those who have not made any double-crosses there are very few consequences to face.

Jill may well be offended that MC preferred Bella, but she should be happy for her friend, and in the end the latter should prevail.

on the contrary i really expect the worst of the worst in case of double-crossing with the two friends, there could also be the explaining of the dark prophecy of the third chapter.

Already with Maya and Josy we found ourselves in a triangle we couldn't get out of, the trick has been used, let's move on.
 
Last edited:

Blades1138

Active Member
Jul 29, 2017
539
1,140
I find animations overrated as well. Unfortunately given DPC's computer hardware, they're actually a much more efficient option than a series of static renders because the statics render extremely quickly. The posing time for statics is a huge percentage of of their total time whereas animations can be queued up to render while DPC works on other things. This is why DPC will occasionally mention having animations in the queue, but the static queue stopped being a thing after Episode 6.

So we're likely to see even more animations going forward, but it's not as big a hit to the production time as you might think. It's not the way I want the world to work, but such is life.
I disagree about animation efforts. It's not like they don't require posing, but on top of that they require rigging the movement in advance, this in itself should be several times more difficult than a couple of static renders. Doing animations just to keep the GPUs busy seems like a waste of time which could be better spent elsewhere.
 
Apr 29, 2017
19
22
Any way of upgrading from older version (0.4.2) to the newest one while keeping my saves?
Downloading the new version of the game should work. Saves tend to persist through to new versions of the game unless you've used any mods. Those tend to corrupt the save files. All of your saves are located in:

Local Disk > Users > "yourUserName" > AppData > Roaming > RenPy > BeingaDIK

So if you ever want to import a save, or share a save, or anything else that is where you can find it!
 
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