VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [DrPinkCake]

[nyrek]

the choice between a sobbing Josie and Jill really seems difficult.

wouldn't even have to think for a second, josy, hands down the easiest choice ever

 

[DavDR]

DPC stubbornly wants to push the player walking along the path of Jill with Josie. In this I see one of the biggest upcoming romantic dramas and the main arguments that Josie's way/Maya is on a half-life.
Jill's path is one of the safest and most ideal, which of course is boring. Her story lacks to spice things up and tension to understand that Jill is exactly what I want now or change my mind.

There are several moments that cause certain thoughts

1) Josie's jealousy of Jill during a date in episode 7 in the pool of HOTs, but she hardly tried to hide it
2) The collision of Jill and Josie in the finale of episode 7 if the player photographed a dick on the smartphone of Tybalt
3) The collision of Jill and Josie in the library in the middle of episode 4
4) Josie's jealousy of Jill in the library in episode 8
5) MC did not tell Jill that he was breaking up with her if he chose Josie or Maya and vice versa
6) Depending on the chosen path ,the MC dialogue changes at the end of the episode

Spoiler: CODE

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

A lot of coincidences, right? Why isn't Maya jealous of Jill, for example?
Let's remember Elena's words that the rejected girl will be jealous and it will hurt her.
Everything was coming to this. DPC apparently decided drama of Jill/Josy devote the entire 9th episode. I can only guess what Josie's jealousy will lead to. Perhaps she will break up with Maya and will make plans for the whole episode in relation to Jill and MC. If you think about it, the choice between a sobbing Josie and Jill really seems difficult.

I don't understand why Josy, or Maya for that matter, would be jealous of Jill when M/J saw MC with Sage during movie night in ep4 and never reacted at all.

 

[Afapp]

I agree with you overall, but the real problem is that the Affinity system sucks. If we grant DPC's premise that the Major Decisions (and only the Major Decisions) are the key moments that form the basis of the MC's overall personality, Jill rejecting a DIK makes a lot more sense. It doesn't matter if Jill knows about each decision directly, because an MC who made those Decisions will be acting all the time like someone Jill wouldn't want to date. That's the theory, at least.

Consider the Decisions for a moment. By the time Jill makes her fateful decision near the end of Episode 7, we've had 13 Major Decisions, and DIK Affinity requires making at least 8 DIK choices. How many of those decisions could only be made by the sort of person Jill strongly objects to?

1. Beat Up Troy - This is probably a Weak objection. The MC doesn't realize Troy was being bullied and lashes out because his guitar was stolen and Troy had been a relentless jerk to him. So while Jill doesn't like violence and would disapprove of her actions, I think she'd see this incident as more of a teachable moment than a real red flag.
2. Join Quinn's Restaurant - Strong objection. This one's pretty obvious. Beyond the simple jealousy factor, buy sex from girls requires a view of the world Jill would not accept.
3. Don't Forgive Steve - No objection. Sure, Jill would probably prefer an MC who always comforts a sobbing individual, but that would be going over and above the call of duty. Steve is another character that's been a relentless jerk to the MC, so the fact that he doesn't care when something bad happens to Steve is not a sign the MC is particularly vindictive. If the MC forgiving people was a regular part of the Affinity system I might buy it. But as a random one off? No.
4. Fight the Jock Trio - Weak objection. Again, Jill dislikes violence, and if you read between the lines, this is supposed to be a case where the MC fights unnecessarily. So in theory Jill wouldn't approve, even if it hardly feels like a deal breaker. Of course, in practice the logic of this being an 'unprovoked' fight is laughable which ruins the notion Jill would object, but I'm trying to give the devil his due here. We'll just pretend this makes sense and move on.
5. Party at the Pink Rose - Weak objection. Jill would definitely prefer a guy who has no interest in the Pink Rose, so this is at least a Weak objection. It could arguably even be a Strong objection, but that would really depend on the actions taken by the MC subsequently. Getting a lap dance seems like something that would make Jill very uncomfortable, but that she wouldn't feel is beyond the pale if done in moderation (before you're a couple, at any rate). Fingering Lily's ass WOULD be huge problem, but that option is actually governed by a different morality system, making a complete mess of the whole idea Affinity represents the MC's attitude. Let's call this a Weak objection and move on.
6. Start an Affair With Jade - Strong objection. Not much wiggle room here. Dating multiple girls is one thing. Deliberately encouraging a married professor (who also happens to be Tybalt's mom) is on a different planet. No way Jill overlooks this sort of thing.
7. Do Drugs with Quinn - Weak objection*. Jill is clearly a fan of sobriety and moderation, so I think it's easy to say she wouldn't like the idea of the MC smoking weed. But given that she tolerates his plot-mandated drunkenness without issue, I can't see this being a significant problem; it's not like weed has become a major vice for the MC since then. I think the much bigger objection for Jill would be if he fucked Quinn, but that's a separate decisions that inexplicably has no impact on the MC's personality. NOTE: The one caveat here is that if Lana's death had something to do with drugs, this could suddenly become a much bigger stumbling block for Jill. Since we don't know that, however, I'm leaving this as Weak for now.
8. Fight Caleb - Strong objection. YMMV, but I think it's the only fight in the game that the MC really does have an easy way out of. Yes, his pride might be hurt, but Jill is exactly the sort of girl who would expect the MC to turn the other cheek. As far as Major Decisions being windows into the MCs soul, this is probably the best example. I can easily believe an MC who'd step up to fight Caleb really would constantly project an aura of bravado that would discourage Jill.
9. Punch Tybalt - Strong objection. Granted, few people deserve a boot to the head more than Tybalt, but at the end of the day he is precisely zero threat. Punching him is like slugging an obnoxious 10 year old. Compounding the issue, Jill apparently believes the MC was doing something shady in the first place, AND this is the only Major Decision that is brought to Jill's attention directly. So yeah, this is a major strike against the MC. Jill would accept this as a mistake by the MC if it's the exception, but not if it's the rule - which is precisely what the Affinity system is supposed to represent.
10. Fight Tommy - Weak objection at best. Again, Jill dislikes violence and would want the MC to diffuse the situation if possible. But given that the MC was doing absolutely nothing wrong when Tommy sucker-punched him, it's a bit of a second guess to think he could have instantly diffused the situation just by asking why Tommy slugged him. If we squint really hard, we can see this is an indication that a DIK MC has more of a hair trigger than a CHICK one, but even then we're bending over backwards to justify a pretty mild objection from Jill.
11. Take Tommy's Fake ID - No objection. Seriously, why would Jill care? We're explicitly told that even Jill herself indulged in a little illicit alcohol use thanks to Bianca.
12. Work at the Pink Rose - Weak objection. Much like the original PR decision, this is basically an indication the MC likes staring at naked ladies. Jill isn't going to like that and it's easy to see how this attitude would be readily apparent in the MC's everyday actions. But simply looking at boobs, especially when the DIKs do need the money, still feels like too minor a transgression to merit a Strong objection... especially when keeping the VIP card (a MUCH more illustrative example) has no impact on the MC's personality.
13. Make Jocks Leave the HOT Party - Weak objection. The MC is deliberately stoking a grudge rather than letting bygones be bygones, and we know Jill would prefer the latter. But the MC is also deliberately moderating his actions to avoid causing a fuss, and for the most part his tactics aren't even particularly bad. Pushing Dawe into the pool is the only real bit of bullying here. I think Jill keep trying to eliminate that last step into outright bullying, but could accept an MC capable of doing the rest.

So there we go, only 2 DIK Major Decisions feel like non-issues for Jill. The rest are at least marginally problematic, and the MC needs to select 8 of them. So I think you could make a decent argument that Jill rejecting a DIK MC makes sense... if we're only looking at the rejection case. The problem is that Jill will accept an MC who's taken 7 DIK actions, and as we've seen, not all of the actions are equal.

Let's test the system. MC1 Beats Up Troy, Doesn't Forgive Steve, Fights the Trio, Does Drugs With Quinn, Fights Tommy, Accepts the Fake ID, Works at the Pink Rose, and Makes the Jocks Leave the Party. MC2 joins Quinn's Restaurant, Fights the Trio, Starts an Affair With Jade, Fights Caleb, and Punches Tybalt. Are we really supposed to believe MC2 would somehow come across as more wholesome to Jill than MC1? Yet MC2 is supposedly good to go because he's a CHICK - as long as he ditches Sage, of course. Helping sick friends is going too far!

So yeah, even if we give it the benefit of the doubt, the Affinity system just isn't capable of doing what DPC needs it to do. The Major Decisions aren't major enough to truly define the MC.

Very nice review of the Affinity decisions in the game. My only observation is that Jill can’t object to something she is unaware of i.e. pushing Dawe in the pool, etc

 

[shazba]

Merry Christmas Everyone!
View attachment 1560583

I know my editing sucks...

Spoiler: Original

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Merry Christmas indeed (it's just gone 12:30 am Dec 25 down under)!

Spoiler: May your Christmas be free from drama, unlike the mc here...

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Stay safe everyone.

 

[sixart]

Stay safe everyone.

Yeah... times are tough alright as they are... who needs an STD on top of it ?!
Stay safe... wear protection !

 

[wakkawalla]

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

 

[PashafromRussia]

I don't understand why Josy, or Maya for that matter, would be jealous of Jill when M/J saw MC with Sage during movie night in ep4 and never reacted at all.

Josie doesn't consider Sage a rival.
From the point of view of game logic, Sage and Josie are on different game poles. Sage is Dik, and she should be in competition for MС with Quinn, or side girls, whereas Josie is competing for MC with Jill, Maya.

 

[ename144]

you are right that the issue is the affinity system in general, but in this case the contrast is even stronger, because we are further along in the game

in the sixth chapter for Jill MC is to be defended at all costs, is it possible that from the sixth to the eighth Mc's behaviour becomes so unbecoming that he deserves to be humiliated like this?

Eh, I'm a little more forgiving of that since you could at least argue such an MC was already close to the line and the most recent transgressions were effectively the straw that broke the camel's back. If, you know, the system worked in the first place.

and then the icing on the cake is this damned immortal friendship, I've always said that Jill has all the reasons in the world to push MC away, even the most CHICK MC possible, after the fire-fighting episode, but why instead should Mc DIK continue to find the friendship with Jill valuable?

I'm also curious as to what kind of story the next chapters would tell of an MC who dedicated himself to Jill with the wrong affinity, who chose her and was rejected without having dated either "others" or other LIs.

Yeah, I'm very curious to see what would come of a loyal MC who was rejected by a, frankly, delusional Jill. I'd probably create a run just to see it if I weren't so down on Season 3 overall.

ultra faithful runs are safe but they don't work perfectly either

what's the point of the whole chapter 8 if you've only dedicated yourself to one LI? all the reflections after the concert for 4 girls you've only kissed or the doubt whether to be faithful to the LI you've chosen... or nothing, always to that LI?

Tell me about it. Good thing Elena was there to set you straight!

It should be easier with the permanent affinity system. Yes, MС will only have 2 choices out of 3 if he is Chick or Dik and 3 out of 3 if neutral, but there will be no such confusion. And the most convenient thing is that the paths of different girls will not intersect with each other.

Maybe, but the fundamental problem of why only certain specific actions have such outsized impact remains. CHICKs might be prevented from helping Derek get revenge on Ron, but they can still hold a grudge against the preps if they want, and they will automatically get blackout drunk at the party for no reason. What exactly is Major about only the first decision?

Actually, one thing I've been wondering is if Major Decisions might vary by branch. In theory they could; we don't need to offer a regular diet to trim affinity anymore, so DPC could restrict future Major Decisions to genuinely important events that happen to occur. But that's the sort of thinking that wouldn't have given us the clunky 'crossroad' we got. So my money is that DPC will continue to elevate 2 random decisions to Major status every episode.

But on that note... will the Interlude have one? And if so, will Episode 9 still have 2?

And... where is Josy´s arc? She started as a bland, immature girl that don´t even know if she´s a lesbian or not and if she prefers Maya or Tremolo... and after 8 chapters, continue being a bland, immature girl that don´t even know if she´s a lesbian or not and if she prefers Maya or Tremolo.

Anyway, it´s the postmodern cliché of the poor lesbians, victims of the conservatism of society and a evil religious middle-aged white man, what ruins her character and pollutes the entire game. She could be a decent "girl next door" character without all that horsecrap. Again, she could be Tremolo´s summer crush. When the summer ends and he goes to B&R, she´s left behind. Then, after a few weeks, she´s admited in B&R too and go there full of hope decided to recover her summer crush. But during those weeks, Tremolo has changed. Has met other girls and has other things in his mind. So se decides to wait her oportunity: she becomes his best friend, and she decides to pledge into the HOTs to overcome her mental barriers and be more a more bold and exciting girl in order of getting Tremolo. That would be a way more clean and way less far fetched arc for her character than the fucking lesbian-drama bullshit.

I think you're projecting a bit here. Josy has never claimed to be, nor been presented as, a lesbian. She's clearly bisexual and is quite comfortable with that (apart from the stigma against same sex relationships that burned Maya).

I don't understand why Josy, or Maya for that matter, would be jealous of Jill when M/J saw MC with Sage during movie night in ep4 and never reacted at all.

Yeah, it doesn't make much sense. In theory you could argue they see Sage as just a fling whereas Jill is obviously playing for keeps. But even that flies out the window when Sage is single and making big doe eyes at the MC in later episodes, or when Josy gets hurt by the MC teasing Tommy with that Pink Rose picture.

So I'm going to say Quinn told them the piggyback ride was part of the HOT hazing process and they bought it.

 

[Cabin Fever]

Josie doesn't consider Sage a rival.
From the point of view of game logic, Sage and Josie are on different game poles. Sage is Dik, and she should be in competition for MС with Quinn, or side girls, whereas Josie is competing for MC with Jill, Maya.

You know it's actually very easy to be on a CHICK run but still have Sage as one of the choices at the end of Ep8, right? In fact, all the major LI choices (Josy+Maya, Sage, Jill, Bella) are available on a CHICK run, whereas some of them are automatically ruled out on DIK runs regardless of score.

 

[DavDR]

Eh, I'm a little more forgiving of that since you could at least argue such an MC was already close to the line and the most recent transgressions were effectively the straw that broke the camel's back. If, you know, the system worked in the first place.


Yeah, I'm very curious to see what would come of a loyal MC who was rejected by a, frankly, delusional Jill. I'd probably create a run just to see it if I weren't so down on Season 3 overall.


Tell me about it. Good thing Elena was there to set you straight!



Maybe, but the fundamental problem of why only certain specific actions have such outsized impact remains. CHICKs might be prevented from helping Derek get revenge on Ron, but they can still hold a grudge against the preps if they want, and they will automatically get blackout drunk at the party for no reason. What exactly is Major about only the first decision?

Actually, one thing I've been wondering is if Major Decisions might vary by branch. In theory they could; we don't need to offer a regular diet to trim affinity anymore, so DPC could restrict future Major Decisions to genuinely important events that happen to occur. But that's the sort of thinking that wouldn't have given us the clunky 'crossroad' we got. So my money is that DPC will continue to elevate 2 random decisions to Major status every episode.

But on that note... will the Interlude have one? And if so, will Episode 9 still have 2?



I think you're projecting a bit here. Josy has never claimed to be, nor been presented as, a lesbian. She's clearly bisexual and is quite comfortable with that (apart from the stigma against same sex relationships that burned Maya).



Yeah, it doesn't make much sense. In theory you could argue they see Sage as just a fling whereas Jill is obviously playing for keeps. But even that flies out the window when Sage is single and making big doe eyes at the MC in later episodes, or when Josy gets hurt by the MC teasing Tommy with that Pink Rose picture.

So I'm going to say Quinn told them the piggyback ride was part of the HOT hazing process and they bought it.

We'll see in ep9, sometime late next year.

If, as I'm starting to suspect, M/J are blase or even supportive when MC tells them he's going to be dating Sage exclusively from now on, it'll be the final confirmation that MC was nothing but a third wheel in that relationship.

 

[drooopy]

If, as I'm starting to suspect, M/J are blase or even supportive when MC tells them he's going to be dating Sage exclusively from now on, it'll be the final confirmation that MC was nothing but a third wheel in that relationship.

ofc they'll act supportive, that's their personality, what matters is if they get jealous afterwards.

 

[PashafromRussia]

You know it's actually very easy to be on a CHICK run but still have Sage as one of the choices at the end of Ep8, right? In fact, all the major LI choices (Josy+Maya, Sage, Jill, Bella) are available on a CHICK run, whereas some of them are automatically ruled out on DIK runs regardless of score.

Perhaps the idea of DPC is for Sage to be in the friendship zone in season 3, with whom MC can start dating after he fails the relationship with the main LI or Sage is one with whom MC will cheat. He tried to prove to us for two seasons that Sage is an incredible and best friend who can comfort Tremolo after a quarrel with Jill or Josie with her pussy.

 

[ename144]

We'll see in ep9, sometime late next year.

If, as I'm starting to suspect, M/J are blase or even supportive when MC tells them he's going to be dating Sage exclusively from now on, it'll be the final confirmation that MC was nothing but a third wheel in that relationship.

Assuming you tried for something more, I think it would make the MC look like a third wheel if Maya and Josy are blase about being turned down for any of the other LIs. Bella would actually be the worst, since presumably the MC couldn't tell M&J who the lucky girl is, making it looked like he abandoned them to play the field.

 

[DavDR]

Perhaps the idea of DPC is for Sage to be in the friendship zone in season 3, with whom MC can start dating after he fails the relationship with the main LI or Sage is one with whom MC will cheat. He tried to prove to us for two seasons that Sage is an incredible and best friend who can comfort Tremolo after a quarrel with Jill or Josie with her pussy.

Making Sage the back up girl for those other whores in pretty dammed insulting. But that's exactly what he did in ep 7 and probably will do in Season 3

 

[Darkwen]

Bella might be known as the Ice Queen but she as at least one thing in common with Josy both can't keep their eyes off MC backside


Now if we can just get Bella to teach Josy her sexy yoga poses

 

[RustyTurtle]

I’ve been reading for a while but first time posting. There’s been so much conversation on the main plot points (Burke, Lynette, Madame =) ) that I wanted to bring up some other things that I think might come in Season 3 (or 4). Could be entirely wrong but I think they make sense. I’ll put it behind spoiler tags so there’s not a wall of text.

Spoiler: Halloween Party

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Spoiler: Elections

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

 

[dalli_x]

And... where is Josy´s arc? She started as a bland, immature girl that don´t even know if she´s a lesbian or not and if she prefers Maya or Tremolo... and after 8 chapters, continue being a bland, immature girl that don´t even know if she´s a lesbian or not and if she prefers Maya or Tremolo.

Anyway, it´s the postmodern cliché of the poor lesbians, victims of the conservatism of society and a evil religious middle-aged white man, what ruins her character and pollutes the entire game. She could be a decent "girl next door" character without all that horsecrap. Again, she could be Tremolo´s summer crush. When the summer ends and he goes to B&R, she´s left behind. Then, after a few weeks, she´s admited in B&R too and go there full of hope decided to recover her summer crush. But during those weeks, Tremolo has changed. Has met other girls and has other things in his mind. So se decides to wait her oportunity: she becomes his best friend, and she decides to pledge into the HOTs to overcome her mental barriers and be more a more bold and exciting girl in order of getting Tremolo. That would be a way more clean and way less far fetched arc for her character than the fucking lesbian-drama bullshit.

JAL. Stop suggesting anything to people. Josy knew from the beginning that she was bisexual. She already had a crush on Tremolo in the store.

I don't feel like answering you because you don't understand anyway, so it's not worth the effort. Besides, you keep writing the same thing over and over again.

 

[lukrame]

Maybe I'm a clueless oaf but I never saw a moment where any of the girls are apparently seething with jealousy over other girls. Even though its very apparent to anyone with eyes that MC is screwing half the female population that doesn't comprise of ogres from gender studies.

 

[dalli_x]

Perhaps the idea of DPC is for Sage to be in the friendship zone in season 3, with whom MC can start dating after he fails the relationship with the main LI or Sage is one with whom MC will cheat. He tried to prove to us for two seasons that Sage is an incredible and best friend who can comfort Tremolo after a quarrel with Jill or Josie with her pussy.

Or Sage becomes the Throuple's Fuck Buddy for the rest of her time in college.

 

[Warscared]

Bella might be known as the Ice Queen but she as at least one thing in common with Josy both can't keep their eyes off MC backside View attachment 1560852
View attachment 1560854

Now if we can just get Bella to teach Josy her sexy yoga poses

are you insinuating that the more tanned a girl is the more of a perv she tends to be?

i´m not sure if i should congratulate you on your observations or berate you for blatant colorism!

but if true... why? is it a learned skill? i mean to keep a tan they must spend a lot of time outside being ogled at so perhaps they learned to ogle back?

melanin provokes alterations in the hormones responsible for sexual arousal?

does the injuries suffered by their skin by the UV light triggers their survival instinct and makes them want to reproduce before the skin cancer gets them?

any other options? perhaps the UV light as damaged their eyes and so they take longer to read in the qualities of the males and therefore they are more easily caught unlike the other girls who have perfect vision and can measure up the dude in an instant without being caught staring, just like the famous Italian papagallos who can measure up a woman in 0.4 secs ?

a wise man can learn more from a stupid question then a fool from a wise answer... what am i? a fool or wise?