VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [DrPinkCake]

[NewTricks]

i agree with you but...
let me be the lords presecutor,
i mean if you can be the devil´s advocate...!

If it happens once it´s the other person!
If it happens repeatadly perhaps it´s you?
If it always happens then it´s defenitely you!
(trust me it was hard to hear when someone pointed it out to me... but its part of the growth)!

Also we do have some comparative elements in the game!
Sage is equally rich and in the college scenario considering her parents she probably suffered far more from it then a Royce!
i mean her only advantage was that Tybalt was not romantically interested in her!
(wierdly for this this type of games but lets not over think it!)

There is another young maiden called Lynette in the same predicament!
yes she was not in a college scenario and instead was in a lost friends house moved frail position but still!

Jill as issues and all her issues are down to her!
fuck with a psychopat as Bella on her side she should be stepping the waters,
i mean she might even bag a great catch like Magnar the Beta King!
We know that Rusty is a great guy with a cancer attached to him called Tommy,
but if she was strong as Sage or Sally she could easily outplay Tommy or get Rusty to put him in his place!

So no stop finding excuses for Jill, she is were she is out of her own devices or lack of courage!
She blames Tommy for not working out with Rusty but fucking hell she as Bella on her side thats like 10 times scarier!

I can't tell if this is amateur slam poetry or a game of mad libs gone frightfully wrong.

 

[Walter Victor]

The only time I seriously railed against the outcome (and modified the game to suit), was when Cathy left her underwear in Bella's car. As soon as she took them off, I knew it was coming back to bite us, so my mc went off script and ditched that shit before he even returned the car to Bella.

Yeah, that was bad news for me. It didn't bother me in my DIK routes, because I had already figured out that neither Jill nor Bella were going to fit there. Nor in my Neutral routes, since that scene with Cathy in Bella's car never went that far. But in my CHICK routes... oh my! So I just changed the damned variable. No problem! What panties?

 

[ename144]

I wish to play devil's advocate for a moment since everyone thinks Jill is the devil. It is beyond dispute that Jill has not been dating and has not been satisfied to not have a romantic interest in her life. Yet, she is abnormally fearful of dating because of bad past experiences and current unwholesome offers. Therefore, it is clear that a guy who breaks this streak and wins the heart of this extremely skittish woman will have to go to extraordinary lengths. People who failed to do so are blaming the woman and not their own lack of effort. This is an extraordinary sense of entitlement. My analysis is that Jill has only had guys who want to marry her for her last name. Look and her and see a big old canvas bag with a dollar sign on it. At the time of the rejection, she just had a very unwelcome proposal that left her extraordinarily agitated and the person who put her in that situation shows up with a stupid smile on his face. This is extraordinarily bad timing, especially if he's been a feckless frat boy the whole time. The fact that this works at all is a festivus miracle and avoiding the splash damage from Tybalt's stupid proposal means that you really need to have swept her off her feet.

I take your point, but allow me to advocate for... let's call it an alternate devil.

Jill is, as you say, skittish and superstitious. She has endured a number of unpleasant dates by men ranging from immature to insufferable. It seems she has come out of this ordeal believing that she'll know her Mr. Right when he sweeps her off her feet in storybook style. The MC ticks the early checkboxes, only to fail Jill's secret test of character when he doesn't recognize the unique fluke of destiny that would have allowed her to defy Tybalt properly (however she defines that). At that point Jill switches from looking for signs that the MC is the one to looking for signs that he isn't. Hence her irritation when he claims to want to spend time with her, and her disinterest in his later heroics. (And by extension, why the MC DOES sweep her off her feet if he goes on that date; his behavior is consistent with the romantic tropes Jill expects).

In and of itself that's not an unreasonable interpretation of the character. It's just that I *hate* that character. It makes Jill little more than a cardboard cutout, every bit the naive princess cliche her initial portrayal took such pains to avoid - or so it seemed. Moreover, it implies that we're going to spend Season 3 watching the MC and Jill blunder through every obvious relationship mistake in the book. I'm not sure I'm up for that, especially since I doubt Jill's branch will be the only one to suffer these sorts of setbacks.

That's a big part of why I'm so down on Zoey's flashy return; she's a lazy way to make the MC doubt his choice rather than allowing us to explore the consequences of that choice in a more open-ended manner. This sort of thing risks obviating a lot of our choices because the one choice we truly care about is denied us. We'd be forced to watch the MC crawl through "baby's first romance" for the next 4 years until we're finally reach the endgame. Definitely not what I'm hoping for after all the effort DPC spent forcing us to make what turns out to be a premature choice.

That's why I said I prefer to chalk Jill's behavior up to bad writing and ignore the larger implications. It allows Jill to be an interesting, intelligent woman, someone who struggles with her insecurities without taking it to the point of delusion. And it keeps the focus on our choices rather than calling attention to the fact the MC is on rails. YMMV, but I don't think BaDIK's pacing or college antics work nearly as well if we need the MC's relationship to hit rock bottom before it finally goes anywhere.

I still think that the picnic checkpoint is a bug, but even if it isn't I'm okay with it. Sage wasn't on her deathbed and didn't desperately need you to put weiners on her face to recover. Jill, however, had something very important to tell you, and you missed an oppportunity. Sometimes in life, one missed opportunity makes everything fall down like a game of Janga.

I have too much respect for DPC's craftsmanship to think this is a bug. Even if it was, the furor over the choice back when Episode 6 dropped should have clued him in by the time he was writing Episode 8.

If Jill had asked the MC on a date before Sage made the request, I'd agree with you that both options are viable. But with Sage making the request first (assuming you call her), the only reason to ditch Sage is metagaming. In the real world, any sane MC would just explain to Jill that he's already busy and ask for a rain check. That's as basic a socializing skill as there is.

I'm still of the opinion that all five romances are doomed. Dude is in the first term of his fresher year and other than the pair of lesbians he seduced the other LIs are in very different places in life. Sage is a fart away from graduating, Jill isn't far behind, and Bella could be his mom. None of these five scream endgame girl to me. This is why I am very interested to see where Zoey fits in. She might just be one of those people who always want to be the match that burns the house down.

I sincerely hope not. As I implied above, I think the MC's newly minted relationship will be tested this season and ultimately found wanting. But I also think we'll either be able to save/rekindle it at the last minute or start a new, mature relationship with a different girl in Season 4. (So technically I don't expect Jill's stinging rejection to be the final word on the matter.) That's how things look to me at the moment - which is tremendously frustrating, but at least it offers an eventual payout.

But if you're right and this whole thing is going to be a bunch of shaggy dog stories about how the MC's choices are unrealistic and can only end in abject failure, I think I might actually prefer the ending of Acting Lessons.

 

[Killerwhale5678]

Maybe, but I'm still going with cunt!


I don't think anyone who chose Sage thought it would end happily with Jill. That Jill/Sage crossroad was like one of the biggest decisions by that point in the game. But there's no harm hating on Jill anyway.

I feel for you a fictional character damaged your ego it really is a though world for you

 

[NewTricks]

I take your point, but allow me to advocate for... let's call it an alternate devil.

Jill is, as you say, skittish and superstitious. She has endured a number of unpleasant dates by men ranging from immature to insufferable. It seems she has come out of this ordeal believing that she'll know her Mr. Right when he sweeps her off her feet in storybook style. The MC ticks the early checkboxes, only to fail Jill's secret test of character when he doesn't recognize the unique fluke of destiny that would have allowed her to defy Tybalt properly (however she defines that). At that point Jill switches from looking for signs that the MC is the one to looking for signs that he isn't. Hence her irritation when he claims to want to spend time with her, and her disinterest in his later heroics. (And by extension, why the MC DOES sweep her off her feet if he goes on that date; his behavior is consistent with the romantic tropes Jill expects).

In and of itself that's not an unreasonable interpretation of the character. It's just that I *hate* that character. It makes Jill little more than a cardboard cutout, every bit the naive princess cliche her initial portrayal took such pains to avoid - or so it seemed. Moreover, it implies that we're going to spend Season 3 watching the MC and Jill blunder through every obvious relationship mistake in the book. I'm not sure I'm up for that, especially since I doubt Jill's branch will be the only one to suffer these sorts of setbacks.

That's a big part of why I'm so down on Zoey's flashy return; she's a lazy way to make the MC doubt his choice rather than allowing us to explore the consequences of that choice in a more open-ended manner. This sort of thing risks obviating a lot of our choices because the one choice we truly care about is denied us. We'd be forced to watch the MC crawl through "baby's first romance" for the next 4 years until we're finally reach the endgame. Definitely not what I'm hoping for after all the effort DPC spent forcing us to make what turns out to be a premature choice.

That's why I said I prefer to chalk Jill's behavior up to bad writing and ignore the larger implications. It allows Jill to be an interesting, intelligent woman, someone who struggles with her insecurities without taking it to the point of delusion. And it keeps the focus on our choices rather than calling attention to the fact the MC is on rails. YMMV, but I don't think BaDIK's pacing or college antics work nearly as well if we need the MC's relationship to hit rock bottom before it finally goes anywhere.


I have too much respect for DPC's craftsmanship to think this is a bug. Even if it was, the furor over the choice back when Episode 6 dropped should have clued him in by the time he was writing Episode 8.

If Jill had asked the MC on a date before Sage made the request, I'd agree with you that both options are viable. But with Sage making the request first (assuming you call her), the only reason to ditch Sage is metagaming. In the real world, any sane MC would just explain to Jill that he's already busy and ask for a rain check. That's as basic a socializing skill as there is.


I sincerely hope not. As I implied above, I think the MC's newly minted relationship will be tested this season and ultimately found wanting. But I also think we'll either be able to save/rekindle it at the last minute or start a new, mature relationship with a different girl in Season 4. (So technically I don't expect Jill's stinging rejection to be the final word on the matter.) That's how things look to me at the moment - which is tremendously frustrating, but at least it offers an eventual payout.

But if you're right and this whole thing is going to be a bunch of shaggy dog stories about how the MC's choices are unrealistic and can only end in abject failure, I think I might actually prefer the ending of Acting Lessons.

I think you did a good job as the second chair. You can't always represent a client you like, after all. I think that it might be of value to reserve judgment on what Zoey's purpose in the story is going to be until we actually know. I think that there are going to be an equal number of people that are disappointed if she ends up being a love interest as will be if she isn't. This is because the MC has already stated that didn't love her, yet the music played during her flashbacks tell a somewhat different story than the one he told Bella with his mouth. (Let's take a moment to recognize how much the musical choices of some of these scenes do a lot of the emotional heavy lifting) He also expressed to Sage that he felt that their relationship was unresolved, without closure. If Zoey shows up just to be his buddy or a devil on his shoulder that might be one of the more controversial decisions in an already controversial game. But we won't know until the interlude comes out, so we should probably hold our horses and keep our powder dry.

 

[dalli_x]

This wounds me.

I am, however, starting to agree with those who have surmised that DPC wants to go more mainstream with his next game. Something less porn and more adult (like Mass Effect levels of lewdness). More story and adventure than sexy time is what I mean. With his comments on Interlude and AL, it seems he enjoys serious things (drama) more than fun things.

I don't know if DPC enjoys dramas more, but having a drama makes a later happy ending more meaningful and makes it stand out.

 

[dalli_x]

She comes with a birthday surprise, not some major request. And she doesn't take it as a personal affront. She's a bit disappointed. It's just that without that special moment together they would have at that picnic the spark isn't lit for her. So when he tries to have sex with her, she feels like they aren't as close as she wishes they were because they never had that special moment together that made her feel like it was right, the moment he convinced her to give him a chance. Without that key moment she kept feeling insecure about the whole thing.

Should she ignore her own feelings and just go with it so not to hurt MC's feelings, because that's basically what you're saying. That she was out of line to feel the way she did and to tell him how she felt. So, she should have just pretended everything was OK and ignored her gut feeling and not been honest with him?

Also, she doesn't know he was with a sick friend (and you make it sound like Sage was terminally ill or something, she had a cold). She's not upset about him helping a friend who got a cold, she just feels like they aren't connecting the way she expected them to because they never had that key moment together.

You have a thought error though. If Jill was such a good person and felt something honestly for the MC, Jill could have suggested another date to the MC, which she did not.

You also note that Jill doesn't even know that the MC helped his sick friend Sage. Jill doesn't even give the MC a chance to explain why he couldn't have a date with Jill.

Conclusion: Jill doesn't even want to share the MC with friends. Mmmmhhh. What is Jill accusing Tybalt of? That he wants to control which friends Jill can date. Double standard on Jill's part. Jill and Tybalt deserve each other.

 

[Lostanddamned]

I cut the quote off at the point where you proved you hadn't a cle what you were talking about. There's no debate to be had here.

Says the guy that tells us what he thinks and acts like he is backing up his thoughts with facts (which you did none of). You're free to think whatever you want, but to keep telling people they are wrong because they think different than you is retarded.

I'm done trying to push this rope uphill, so that's that.

 

[solarBear]

You have a thought error though. If Jill was such a good person and felt something honestly for the MC, Jill could have suggested another date to the MC, which she did not.

You also note that Jill doesn't even know that the MC helped his sick friend Sage. Jill doesn't even give the MC a chance to explain why he couldn't have a date with Jill.

Conclusion: Jill doesn't even want to share the MC with friends. Mmmmhhh. What is Jill accusing Tybalt of? That he wants to control which friends Jill can date. Double standard on Jill's part. Jill and Tybalt deserve each other.

when did Jill started receiving Maya level of hate
She is one of the best thing happening for the MC ( aside from Sage the best girl BTW)

For Jill the birthday date was originally meant to be her climax of romance with MC , it was a break up date , so by rejecting Jill its basically just break up

All jill wanted was to help her friend in her own naive way

it was DPC that fucked up the whole situation again like some infamous house fire

 

[PashafromRussia]

Jill is that annoying type of woman who likes to plan for a man for several years ahead. The fact that she believes in fate after she was fucked (lol!), says that she will make up your relationship horoscope, choose nights of love when the planets converge and is already planning the name of your child. I'm damn sure she's building a relationship just because you have the letter "R" in your last name!

I hope she won't give up Tremolo just because during the Tarot reading, the Parting card falls out.

 

[Dr.Brule]

WTF
W=watermelon
T=Tybalt
F=Fraternity

 

[Lostanddamned]

Jill is that annoying type of woman who likes to plan for a man for several years ahead. The fact that she believes in fate after she was fucked (lol!), says that she will make up your relationship horoscope, choose nights of love when the planets converge and is already planning the name of your child. I'm damn sure she's building a relationship just because you have the letter "R" in your last name!

I hope she won't give up Tremolo just because during the Tarot reading, the Parting card falls out.

The destiny talk that she gives is the weirdest of them all. Like her fucking sister died being outcast by the family/due to being a degenerate junkie, but Jill believes it's her destiny. That whole line of thoughts gives me creepy vibes.

But you know, inb4 Jill stans bombard me with replies, cutting off like half my quotes to make it look like I said things that I didn't so they can feel better about themselves protecting their waifu and overall being her white knights.

 

[Lostanddamned]

WTF
W=watermelon
T=Tybalt
F=Fraternity

Is Kellermann the president of the fraternity?

 

[solarBear]

Jill is that annoying type of woman who likes to plan for a man for several years ahead. The fact that she believes in fate after she was fucked (lol!), says that she will make up your relationship horoscope, choose nights of love when the planets converge and is already planning the name of your child. I'm damn sure she's building a relationship just because you have the letter "R" in your last name!

I hope she won't give up Tremolo just because during the Tarot reading, the Parting card falls out.

Jill kinda makes me a believer

she complains to the counselors about Chad and tremolo gets to be the DIK hero who beats up Chad and gets him kicked out and you get buddy up with chad which could potentially lead to a threesome with troy

Jill gets performance anxity and tremolo gets to be the college rock star dropping panties left and right

She goes on a sham tennis double date and tremolo gets to smash tybalts teeth with his balls

she bring luck
even when she fucks up

 

[solarBear]

Jill showed her true colors at the end of EP8 and so some of us might interpret certain scenes from older EPs differently.

This leads me to further thoughts.

The whole game revolves around the MC choosing a LI or no LI.

Jill or Sage (EP6)
Josy/Maya or Isabella (EP6)
Josy/Maya or Sage (EP7)
Josy or Maya or Throuple (EP8)
Sidegirl or LI (EP8)
LI, Sidegirl other Zoey (EP9)

Quinn is not a LI and is representative of all other girls. So if the MC chooses Quinn, he will probably lose all the other LIs. Not surprising with their illegal activities.

The exceptions are Josy and Maya. Here the MC can choose one of them, culminating in single routes later, or the throuple. In the case of the throuple decision, the MC's thoughts explain to us what happens to Josy and Maya.

The MC thinks that he is then actually still with 2 girls, but actually Josy and Maya are one girl. The final decision for the threesome is made at the dorm party. The MC can either be with just Josy or just Maya. However, he can also make out with both at the party.

But if he fucks or flirts with other girls at the party, the MC becomes a "player," as JB put it so nicely. So the MC could lose Josy and Maya.

also
ep 4 - m&j or other
but to me Jill vs Sage is the most difficult one and dpc made it the most cruel one
it could have been exicuted a lot better

 

[woscarricoche]

So, it looks like a 3some with Jill and Sage won't happen...

 

[felicemastronzo]

So, it looks like a 3some with Jill and Sage won't happen...

maybe during a picnic

 

[varage]

MC: Jill I can't go with you because I have a friend who has leukemia and I am the only person on earth compatible with her for a Bone Marrow Transplant.
Jill: Oh... Yeah, of course. I understand." (Seriously, you're choosing another girl over me!? I hope she dies and you too son of a bitch)

It's true lol Exajerated but you did make plans with a sick person before her im sure she'da been okay if the roles were reversed and you didn't take care of her while she was sick and went partying with another girl instead haha.

 

[varage]

The only problem with this game (which even makes me hesitate to continue playing) is the fact that it's not a Harem Game...

WHY THE DEV MAKES FEMALE CHARACTERS SO PERFECT AT THE SAME TIME IT STEALS MY POSSIBILITY OF HAVING ALL THE GIRLS D=

The trauma I had with Acting Lessons was not enough, now the dev wants to screw me with this game again =/

Lol Harem's don't work in the real world they are very How to put it... retarded. The only real harem that makes any since is 1 woman and several guys.
And I know this is gunna be backlashed to hell but hear me out. with 1 guy and seven women the woman has to wait their turn and when he inevitably finishes with one there like a 5 to 10 minute revuptime to hit the next one while a girl has three holes and don't need a break until chafing time hahahahahaha.
Not to mention the hell you'd go through until the women's cycles sink up.

 

[varage]

I have too much respect for DPC's craftsmanship to think this is a bug. Even if it was, the furor over the choice back when Episode 6 dropped should have clued him in by the time he was writing Episode 8.

Just to let you know there is a bug that involves Quinn in the unmodded version of the game =)
If you buy Sarah from Quinn it counts sleeping with Sarah as true. Even if you double back on the decision and stay with Maya. This also Keeps the Quinn story moving strong where as it should be cut to a stand still. I've mentioned that sleep with Sarah should be a break to the Quinn relationship if you don't do this then you shouldn't be able to advance your relationship with Quinn as she's DIK's only according to DPC.
Now I would say yea of course sarah lies and said she fucked him she's not gunna be like yea he turned me down after i threw myself at him. But i believe later in the game MC himself mentions having slept with her even though he did not.
NOOOOOO i just remember that it's in the post chapter credits you know the rev up scene's even if you didn't sleep with Sarah it shows you fucking Sarah in recap of episode even if you went home to Maya after buying her.