VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [DrPinkCake]

[D2M3]

I'm opening a new front on the War (TM) of the Wait Between Interlude and Episode 9.

What do you think will be the twist ( DPC certified, %100 Shyamalan free) regarding Lynette will be?

Discuss.

My theory is that after the horror of childbirth, Lynette faked her death, changed her sex and became James, Bella's 'husband."

 

[Skeltom]

Come on! Do you really want to turn this game into an open-world sandbox?

Or do you want even more choices than we already have, and wait 2 years for an update because the game has become so unmanageably complex? [You might want to try Element-174, where every single choice changes the game.]

Like most good developers, DrPinkCake has set parameters around which the game flows. They are his parameters and we are forced to accept them... or bitch about them... or quit.

He has given us girls to play with. They interact with the MC whether we like them or not. But he has also given us enough choices so that we can avoid almost all intimate contact with all of them. But they are still there, like the people at work or school that you don't get along with. These girls are needed for story progression.

Of course, all those choices mean that we have to do several playthroughs if we want to see all the content. I challenge anyone to play the game (as downloaded) on one route (without using a mod or the console to cheat), and unlock all the scenes in the gallery.

I never said it needs to be a sandbox. I also never debated the fact that you do have choices when it comes to being intimate with them, that doesn't mean you aren't strong armed into several of them just so the plot works. He has done a good job overall but you still can't just pretend that some of the interaction are there just to make things work. I don't consider it bitching, just discussing flaws the game has. No game is perfect and pretending that it is, is foolish.

He has talked about how he is making multiple branching paths now going forward so it seems like this already complex game will be even more so. The updates have been taking longer as it is and him adding more branches is only going to extend development time. I also didn't say anything about having to do multiple playthroughs to see everything being a bad thing. I didn't say anything about multiple playthroughs period. The girls are needed for the story, and I get that but it seems to me much of the core girl's content is tied to the player trying to build some sort of harem. I think I will set up a train wreck save where I go after everyone since it seems like that is how it's designed to be played.

 

[RonWeasleyJr]

I hope we get a "bachelor auction" at the Halloween Party. That could be a fun scene: the Vixens, Zoey, and MC's love interest get into a wild bidding war for a date with MC, and then Jade steps in at the last minute and uses her wealth to outbid all of them, either to spite her stepdaughter for "stealing" MC away from her, or to spite MC for rejecting her advances outright.

Or if you're on the "other" path, MC has a wild, sex fueled weekend with Jade.

 

[RonWeasleyJr]

I also hope that, if you're on the Massive DIK "other" path, we eventually get a scene where MC's affair with Jade gets out into the open and we get a scene where MC staggers out of Jade's bedroom, naked and exhausted, and sees Sage is home for the weekend.

Sage: "God, Wendy was right, you really are a fucking pig."

MC: "Sorry...gotta get some Gatorade for your mother...whew..."

 

[BeingADikDik]

I hope we get a "bachelor auction" at the Halloween Party. That could be a fun scene: the Vixens, Zoey, and MC's love interest get into a wild bidding war for a date with MC, and then Jade steps in at the last minute and uses her wealth to outbid all of them, either to spite her stepdaughter for "stealing" MC away from her, or to spite MC for rejecting her advances outright.

Or if you're on the "other" path, MC has a wild, sex fueled weekend with Jade.

View attachment 1726282

This could actually be pretty funny. Perhaps each 'bachelor' can choose their 'charity' for the funds they raise. MC could choose from various:
1) Upgrading the mansion (DIK)
2) Maya scholarship (CHICK)
3) Campaign in honor of Jill's sister (CHICK)
4) Quinn's money troubles (DIK)
etc.

 

[affque]

This could actually be pretty funny. Perhaps each 'bachelor' can choose their 'charity' for the funds they raise. MC could choose from various:
1) Upgrading the mansion (DIK)
2) Maya scholarship (CHICK)
3) Campaign in honor of Jill's sister (CHICK)
4) Quinn's money troubles (DIK)
etc.

"Quinn's money troubles": Fraternity student nationwide famous after banging an entire sorority in an 6 hour long non-stop reverse gangbang

 

[ename144]

The key word there is minimal. You absolutely have to be with them one way or another. You kiss Josy on your first date, Maya grinds you awake and you make out after the cum-petition, You kiss Bella after showing up for dinner and you have to go on a date with Jill. And even with those minimal interactions the MC still has a crisis of conscience at the end for no real reason.

Just because we as the player don't get a choice in the matter doesn't make it 'forced' from a storytelling point of view. Things beyond our control are a regular part of real life, so it's not surprising they would happen to the MC, too. The question isn't if bad things can happen despite our best efforts, it's whether we have the freedom to choose our response.

That's where BaDIK does sometimes get itself into trouble. First, because our actions are occasionally constrained for the sake of the meter: remaining friends with Maya and Josy if the reject the MC is the most glaring case, but there are others. Second, because we very rarely get to choose the MC's mindset, which means even when we can select an action we're often at the mercy of DPC to tell us why that was. This is the theoretical justification for why visiting Bella in Episode 3 ends with them making out or why the MC was so devastated by the Maya/Josy revelation even when he passed on sex with both of them. It will likely resurface in his future interactions with Zoey, too.

I try to be sympathetic because it's a tricky problem. If the game isn't going to be a complete sandbox the first issue is unavoidable; likewise if the MC isn't going to be a completely milquetoast clean slate the second will have to happen at least a bit. It really comes down to frequency and degree, which are always going to be very subjective.

In general I think BaDIK does a pretty decent job of it, but it tends to run into trouble when DPC wants to go big. I think that's primarily because DPC tends to sweep the 'how the MC feels about X' aspect of choices under the rug for most of the game: he'll allude to the MC's mindset a time or two, but in general the MC just does what we select and we intuitively assume he's doing it for the same reason we are.

But then when DPC needs to crank things up to 11, he'll pull rank and assert that the MC actually felt a certain way the whole time. It's extra jarring because we've become so used to thinking we were molding the MC, not just breaking ties in his own mind. The fact that DPC insists the Affinity scale is a coherent description of the MC doesn't help, nor does DPC's penchant for giving us lots of small, highly reactive choices.

I'd like to think DPC has learned either to stop trying to force maximum drama or to stop handing out more choices than he can cope with, but nothing about the end of Season 2 or the Interlude supports that conclusion.

Jill's first tennis date is unavoidable. And your right it wouldn't make sense at all, that's why those scenes are forced.

Honestly, I thought Jill's tennis date was one of the best examples of DPC getting it right.

The date is plot crucial so the MC *will* ask her out, but the scene is structured so that we could plausibly do so both out of interest in Jill or out to shut Tybalt up. It's up to us to decide, and the game will then allow us to reinforce the choice during the date. If we take the opportunity kiss and later make out with Jill, the game will act as if the MC is smitten with her; reasonable enough. If we keep it strictly platonic, Jill will decide the MC just isn't into her and the whole thing never gets off the ground; even the interminable Jill blackmail subplot is handled as a minor nuisance in this route.

It all worked quite well until... at least until the @$%@*#$ crossroads had the MC angsting over all the girls giving Jill a hug.

 

[RonWeasleyJr]

Zoey's interactions with the various LI's will be interesting. My predictions:

Sage gets insanely jealous and is hostile from the get-go towards Zoey, Jill sees Zoey's tattoos, dyed hair, and her worldly experience and treats Zoey like a Cool Big Sis, even though Jill is technically older, Josy is cautious towards Zoey but still makes friends with her, Bella isn't sure how to react, but is polite but weary towards Zoey out of respect to MC.

 

[hakuna-matata]

This could actually be pretty funny. Perhaps each 'bachelor' can choose their 'charity' for the funds they raise. MC could choose from various:
1) Upgrading the mansion (DIK)
2) Maya scholarship (CHICK)
3) Campaign in honor of Jill's sister (CHICK)
4) Quinn's money troubles (DIK)
etc.

The Correct and Only Option: Fuck you all!!! I am keeping my money!!!

 

[NewTricks]

Zoey's interactions with the various LI's will be interesting. My predictions:

Sage gets insanely jealous and is hostile from the get-go towards Zoey, Jill sees Zoey's tattoos, dyed hair, and her worldly experience and treats Zoey like a Cool Big Sis, even though Jill is technically older, Josy is cautious towards Zoey but still makes friends with her, Bella isn't sure how to react, but is polite but weary towards Zoey out of respect to MC.

This is an interesting post. Let me think of some predictions:

1. Quinn fingerbangs Zoey in the shower when she is sent by the DIKs to steal panties. Is heartbroken when Zoey chooses the DIKs over working in her restaurant and tells her that her finger game needs work.
2. Zoey agrees to be Chad's new beard. If you didn't tell Sage that he's gay she goes ballistic and vows to get that bitch. She goes on a rampage and throws dildos though all the windows of the Alphas but discovers that Neil replaced the DIK's windows with ballistic plexiglass.
3. Bella hires Zoey to be her full-time assistant librarian after Magnar pushes her too far and it becomes her job to chase out all the nerds. Sally plots vengeance after she can't get to her meds.
4. Since Josy and MC have the same taste in women she bonds with the newcomer and drives Maya insane with jealousy. Thousands die needlessly.
5. Jill mistakes Zoey for a bully after seeing her giving a wedgie to Magnar and becomes her archnemesis. All her hair falls out and she is always stroking a white long-haired cat in her lap.

 

[Sevaroq]

So at the end of season 2, is it possible to choose Sage yet still go for Quinn? Or do I need to choose "Others" so I can get with Quinn?

 

[Skeltom]

Just because we as the player don't get a choice in the matter doesn't make it 'forced' from a storytelling point of view. Things beyond our control are a regular part of real life, so it's not surprising they would happen to the MC, too. The question isn't if bad things can happen despite our best efforts, it's whether we have the freedom to choose our response.

That's where BaDIK does sometimes get itself into trouble. First, because our actions are occasionally constrained for the sake of the meter: remaining friends with Maya and Josy if the reject the MC is the most glaring case, but there are others. Second, because we very rarely get to choose the MC's mindset, which means even when we can select an action we're often at the mercy of DPC to tell us why that was. This is the theoretical justification for why visiting Bella in Episode 3 ends with them making out or why the MC was so devastated by the Maya/Josy revelation even when he passed on sex with both of them. It will likely resurface in his future interactions with Zoey, too.

I try to be sympathetic because it's a tricky problem. If the game isn't going to be a complete sandbox the first issue is unavoidable; likewise if the MC isn't going to be a completely milquetoast clean slate the second will have to happen at least a bit. It really comes down to frequency and degree, which are always going to be very subjective.

In general I think BaDIK does a pretty decent job of it, but it tends to run into trouble when DPC wants to go big. I think that's primarily because DPC tends to sweep the 'how the MC feels about X' aspect of choices under the rug for most of the game: he'll allude to the MC's mindset a time or two, but in general the MC just does what we select and we intuitively assume he's doing it for the same reason we are.

But then when DPC needs to crank things up to 11, he'll pull rank and assert that the MC actually felt a certain way the whole time. It's extra jarring because we've become so used to thinking we were molding the MC, not just breaking ties in his own mind. The fact that DPC insists the Affinity scale is a coherent description of the MC doesn't help, nor does DPC's penchant for giving us lots of small, highly reactive choices.

I'd like to think DPC has learned either to stop trying to force maximum drama or to stop handing out more choices than he can cope with, but nothing about the end of Season 2 or the Interlude supports that conclusion.



Honestly, I thought Jill's tennis date was one of the best examples of DPC getting it right.

The date is plot crucial so the MC *will* ask her out, but the scene is structured so that we could plausibly do so both out of interest in Jill or out to shut Tybalt up. It's up to us to decide, and the game will then allow us to reinforce the choice during the date. If we take the opportunity kiss and later make out with Jill, the game will act as if the MC is smitten with her; reasonable enough. If we keep it strictly platonic, Jill will decide the MC just isn't into her and the whole thing never gets off the ground; even the interminable Jill blackmail subplot is handled as a minor nuisance in this route.

It all worked quite well until... at least until the @$%@*#$ crossroads had the MC angsting over all the girls giving Jill a hug.

I agree completely. With the response you quoted I was just stating that you don't have an option to ask her out. It is probably one of my favorite scenes when it comes to the dates, it was set up really well. I just meant the initial asking her out isn't optional. The hangouts are another thing I think he did well. It makes it feel like you are forming a connection to the cast which makes the reaction of the MC at the end more justifiable. But without those and the optional scenes with the LIs the ending conclusion is far fetched.

In a way it's like DPC doesn't believe what Maya does about attaching strings naturally. He tries pretty hard I think to make the player do just that with the MC's decision in crossroads. You don't have to choose of course, but to me it comes across that you "Should". Maybe its just me.

 

[dotritch]

So at the end of season 2, is it possible to choose Sage yet still go for Quinn? Or do I need to choose "Others" so I can get with Quinn?

If DPC makes it possible to cheat on your chosen partner in S3, I'm assuming this will be possible. Otherwise, you have to choose others to get the possibility on being with Quinn

 

[jak1165]

It all worked quite well until... at least until the @$%@*#$ crossroads had the MC angsting over all the girls giving Jill a hug.

I mean, I could see why. If you're playing this like a porn game, there's a decent chance you banged basically everyone in the hug. That feels like it would be awkward

 

[ename144]

I mean, I could see why. If you're playing this like a porn game, there's a decent chance you banged basically everyone in the hug. That feels like it would be awkward

Right, but as I said, the game previously made a big point of giving you the choice to turn them down and reflected that choice in the interaction with the different girls. If the end of Season 2 (or worse, all of Season 3) will absolutely hinge on the MC feeling awkward about his multiple relationships, the time to lay that ground work was most emphatically not after DPC went through all the effort of selling the idea relationships were optional.

I don't object DPC gambling on most players sleeping around, he just needs to accept some players won't. All he has to do in those cases is live with the lessened drama those players chose; if they want more bang, they can always go back and replay it, right? Instead he abruptly reverses course and obviates all the decisions he insisted on giving us just to end on an alleged cliffhanger.

It really kills my enthusiasm for multiple playthroughs - which is a bad sign when the game is going to demand that playstyle more than ever going forward.

 

[jak1165]

Right, but as I said, the game previously made a big point of giving you the choice to turn them down and reflected that choice in the interaction with the different girls. If the end of Season 2 (or worse, all of Season 3) will absolutely hinge on the MC feeling awkward about his multiple relationships, the time to lay that ground work was most emphatically not after DPC went through all the effort of selling the idea relationships were optional.

I didnt personally take issue with how the early seasons handled it. Only that the most unrealistic part of the game is the whole J/M/MC thing happening and NOBODY figuring it out.

No way a dude could pull that off irl lol

Prior to that, the player doesnt really have a choice. Which is fine. Too much choice would lead to too many variables and the game would NEVER get done. I was following a VN where after like 2 years of development, the team realized that they were basically trying to make Persona happen. But with 6 people. So they massively trimmed down the scope of the game

 

[shazba]

The way I’ve always looked at the game is that it isn’t our story. It’s the mc’s story.

We don’t get to fully control him or his responses to situations, we mostly only influence him from time-to-time.

At his core, the mc is a nice guy who is often introspective and sensitive but he’s also keen to help people in trouble.

This is inherent in his upbringing, values that are clearly passed on to him by his dad.

Throughout his story, we get to play the little devil or angel on his shoulder, prompting him to go down one path or the other.

Actually, rather than a devil or angel,
perhaps we get to play as his dick. Sending signals to his brain, trying to override intelligence at the mere thought of sex.

That puts a more literal spin on the title, “Being a DIK”.

The biggest mistake people make when playing this game is when don’t agree with how the mc reacts, they complain the story isn’t representing their expectations.

But that’s because the story isn’t theirs.

The mc’s responses are often quite consistent. He gets crushes quickly. He gets hurt easily. He panics often. He second guesses himself occasionally.

But he is evolving.

In the more recent episodes he has been considering the repercussions of his decisions.

Once again, as his dick, weget to try to override these thoughts, telling him it’s ok to keep fucking around, but that depends on how the mc has evolved.

As a Chick, the mc isn’t being lead by his dick so much anymore. If M&J or Jill are a branching option, you can’t even select to stay single and keep playing the field.

As a DIK, the mc can forgo Bella or Sage and keep fooling around with other girls.

It makes sense, but only if we assume the mc’s mindset rather than our own, and stop thinking we are in full control of the mc.

 

[PashafromRussia]

The way I’ve always looked at the game is that it isn’t our story. It’s the mc’s story.

We don’t get to fully control him or his responses to situations, we mostly only influence him from time-to-time.

At his core, the mc is a nice guy who is often introspective and sensitive but he’s also keen to help people in trouble.

This is inherent in his upbringing, values that are clearly passed on to him by his dad.

Throughout his story, we get to play the little devil or angel on his shoulder, prompting him to go down one path or the other.

Actually, rather than a devil or angel,
perhaps we get to play as his dick. Sending signals to his brain, trying to override intelligence at the mere thought of sex.

That puts a more literal spin on the title, “Being a DIK”.

The biggest mistake people make when playing this game is when don’t agree with how the mc reacts, they complain the story isn’t representing their expectations.

But that’s because the story isn’t theirs.

The mc’s responses are often quite consistent. He gets crushes quickly. He gets hurt easily. He panics often. He second guesses himself occasionally.

But he is evolving.

In the more recent episodes he has been considering the repercussions of his decisions.

Once again, as his dick, weget to try to override these thoughts, telling him it’s ok to keep fucking around, but that depends on how the mc has evolved.

As a Chick, the mc isn’t being lead by his dick so much anymore. If M&J or Jill are a branching option, you can’t even select to stay single and keep playing the field.

As a DIK, the mc can forgo Bella or Sage and keep fooling around with other girls.

It makes sense, but only if we assume the mc’s mindset rather than our own, and stop thinking we are in full control of the mc.

For me, some problem is the motivation for the actions of Chick or Dik.

For example, from the interlude we know that MС was a Chick and in fact Zoey played a leading role in the relationship. But it's unclear why, in the very first scene in the game, MС draws a dick on a photo of Steve, swears with him and gropes Josie on a date. This is not a Chick act.
Did something have to happen in the interval between Zoey's departure and meeting Josie that MС became more impulsive and emotional? Of course, you can think and imagine that the MC after the breakup got angry at Zoey and became more open, but the game does not say that.

The second point is the contradiction between the actions of Dik/Chick and the words and thoughts of MС. This is much more striking.

In some situations, the hero behaves like a Dck, he drinks, fights and fucks, although in fact he is a Chick and vice versa. Somewhere Dik, speaks like a real Chick.

Talking to Sage in her room is a Chick action.
Drunk MС to such an extent that he does not remember how he ended up in bed -this is the action of Dik.
I understand that this is a classic suspension of disbelief. We have to accept this in order for the game to continue as intended.

 

[pwnography]

I never said it needs to be a sandbox. I also never debated the fact that you do have choices when it comes to being intimate with them, that doesn't mean you aren't strong armed into several of them just so the plot works. He has done a good job overall but you still can't just pretend that some of the interaction are there just to make things work. I don't consider it bitching, just discussing flaws the game has. No game is perfect and pretending that it is, is foolish.

That's not a flaw, it's an unrealistic expectation.

You're critiquing the lack of freedom but you don't take another step to see how that would affect the story as a whole.

It's also not particularly player-friendly that there isn't a route to just ditch the whole college thing and go with Zoey to San Diego. But no one would actually use that as a serious argument because we understand "railroading" is needed even with a choice-based game.

These stories are rarely about you, the actual player and what you would do. They are mostly about immersing you in the role of a character with minor variations on the overall road they take. Just like Geralt in Witcher or Shepard in Mass Effect. It's not YOUR journey, it's theirs. Choices are there to make it easier to connect with them. It's also why JRPGs have a thousand fake dialogue options.

 

[Tonytiger13]

Finally got Quinn to let me help her but still couldn't get that kiss from Sage idk why but Quinn feels like the type of character that like to be tough but we all know those type of people all have soft sides but back to Sage i get the feeling no matter what i do can't kiss her maybe it just isn't the right time.