godkingxerxes

Engaged Member
Sep 27, 2020
2,148
5,940
shazba TimHawk and others defending DPC's "writing".

DPC's writing is not good. I am giving you that straight up. He gives it to you straight up that his writing is his weak point in interviews with him. He can not follow logic/tell his tale to save his life. His story AL was terrible except for the wingman, and his story here is laughable except for the wingman. His MC's are particularly unlikable, and yes, his writing of Maya and her situation is completely stupid. This is supposed to be an American college. In all American colleges that are not rip off's like say tRump university, there are ways for students to get financial assistance if they are in need. Maya's "bank" problem is a money problem. The college financial folks can assist her in finding alternate means of funding her education with, or without her father.

DPC is a master at his renders, animations, and picking music that fits his art. He pretty well sucks at writing a coherent story.
Peace
He said he isn't good at writing lewd scenes, not writing in general.

When you open your post with bullshit, the rest becomes irrelevant.

I do agree the drama behind Maya is poorly written from a logical side, because the loan the way she describes it, can't happen.

But... look at her fans, look at how many people feel sorry for her, how many want to help her and save her, that is who she is written for, the target audience Pinkcakes was aiming for with Maya are white knights, I think he's successfully hit that mark.

If you write a character to appeal to certain people and those people like the character, that's good writing is it not?
 

znar25

Well-Known Member
Apr 25, 2021
1,574
4,423
The rest of the novel may resolve well if you pick Bella and just a lot of click through for a predictable, happy ending. But as one of the many paths, I think it is worth it. And, Bella is worth it. I would think of that fan art with MC, Bella and their daughter on the beach. One of many possible happy endings. I have multiple saves of multiple paths of the novel, so, I am OK with that....

Belldin1.JPG
belldin2.JPG
Belldin3.JPG
Belldin4.JPG
 

shazba

Engaged Member
Aug 4, 2020
3,506
19,701
Look, you can keep defending DPC, but the crux of the matter is that 4 people (MC Maya Josy Sage), some of who (Sage) is proclaimed to be smart by someone who looks smart (Bella), have spent considerable amount of time trying to solve a problem, and no one even suggested that Maya go talk to the school financial office to understand her situation, before going to Sage's parents and asking them to cough up tens of thousands of dollars.

They don't need to solve the problem for her in that time frame. But if no one suggests during the entire month (per your timeframe above) that she should do the painfully obvious thing that can help, that's shitty writing.

On my "bad writing" critique, that really comes from two angles - one is that if the writing of the work is okay to good elsewhere, then the shitty part becomes obvious. I assume you can tell the potato is overcooked even if the steak is done right. Second, there are many, many, many AVNs that have great writing. Many of them are translated from Japanese - Ever 17, Baldr Sky, etc. (Japan has had an active AVN industry for 40 years) but even some on this site is pretty good, like Good Girl Gone Bad. That game is quite lacking in the graphic department, but the writing/branching/mechanics/player freedom is very advanced.
The crux of the matter is no one has spent any time trying to do anything related to Maya's predicament other than get Maya into the HOTs.

That was Maya's plan. She didn't ask for anyone to help her in regards to her loan issue until the HOTs free tuition evaporated.

That was right at the end of episode 6. That was a year ago for us. Not that long ago for the Scooby Gang.

As soon as she mentioned it to Sage, Sage figured her parents could help out. I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that they will just outright pay for Maya's tuition, because no one in the game has suggested that. But Burke is high up in the college administration, so maybe he can help, some how.

Given how Sage is loath to ask her parents for any help, she could have tried other avenues to assist Maya, but she figured her parents were the best option.

That's definitely not a stretch of the imagination that a young adult might speak with their parents before they start running around making appointments with legal aide.

My month time frame was for the mc alone, and you may have noticed, he's been serious fucking preoccupied, as I already outlined. Sage just found out about it, Derek is an idiot, and we don't know about Josy.

Personally I think it's comprehension that's the issue here, not the writing...

shazba TimHawk and others defending DPC's "writing".
DPC's writing is not good. I am giving you that straight up. He gives it to you straight up that his writing is his weak point in interviews with him. He can not follow logic/tell his tale to save his life. His story AL was terrible except for the wingman, and his story here is laughable except for the wingman. His MC's are particularly unlikable, and yes, his writing of Maya and her situation is completely stupid. This is supposed to be an American college. In all American colleges that are not rip off's like say tRump university, there are ways for students to get financial assistance if they are in need. Maya's "bank" problem is a money problem. The college financial folks can assist her in finding alternate means of funding her education with, or without her father.

DPC is a master at his renders, animations, and picking music that fits his art. He pretty well sucks at writing a coherent story.
Peace
Those who don't like DPC's writing always say that DPC said it's his weak point. That's a really bad take from what he said:

Do you feel limited when writing due to your choice of using only monologue and dialog to describe what's happening? For action, you rely completely on the visuals, which becomes especially apparent during sex scenes. Wouldn't you sometimes like to use more detailed text or rich descriptions to go deeper into the scene?
No, I don’t feel limited by that choice of writing style, but, yes, I do miss out on painting the scene further than visuals go. When writing a book, detailed text and rich descriptions are necessary, and I felt that the game being a visual novel, didn’t need that narrative. It removes some of the immersion when a narrator describes a scene's details versus the character saying, thinking, or expressing it through body language.
My chosen writing method plays to my strengths, as I see writing as my biggest weakness. Even though I constantly try to improve my writing, I think I lack the skill set needed to write a novel in the way you're describing.

He's not saying he can't write a story plot. He even said his chosen method of writing plays to his strengths, i.e. character dialogue with visuals. The writing that he admits he's not good at is the descriptive style story telling (which he avoids altogether).

This has nothing to do with creating an actual storyline which he does really well purely dialogue. When it comes to a visual novel, I really like this dialogue only approach, I can't stand the visual novels that try to describe the sex scenes, they are truly cringeworthy.

Once again, this issue is comprehension, not writing.

She does if her daddy isn't paying.
She needs funding for college. Whether it is spending money or dorm/tuition money, the girl needs money. At a minimum the college will have resources to assist students in finding jobs. Whether those are workstudy type jobs does require financial aid evaluations being performed. If her father is being a douche, this won't qualify her for much of course, but they would still help her find a non hoe job.
Her issue is her dad has threatened to withhold her funds. It's a threat, and as far as I'm concerned, it's a bluff. She'd be paid up for the first semester already most likely.

Just like how Jill simply stood up to Tybalt and his bluff turned to shit, I believe Maya will eventually do the same thing.

Actually, I am not a lawyer, my room mate from college was, I am an engineer. :D
However, yes you are correct that there is that nagging poor representation of how the funding for the college would go, but still, she is cut off, so she is going to need money, and she could go to the college to discuss at least the possibility of work around town or other places.
The poor representation is from Maya's mouth. There is nothing to corroborate what her father has told her. Probably because it's bullshit. He's bluffing/threatening her to force her to do something. She's just too inexperienced to realise what he's told her is horseshit.
 

sixart

Conversation Conqueror
Jan 2, 2021
6,237
8,092
He's not saying he can't write a story plot. He even said his chosen method of writing plays to his strengths, i.e. character dialogue with visuals. The writing that he admits he's not good at is the descriptive style story telling (which he avoids altogether).
This has nothing to do with creating an actual storyline which he does really well purely dialogue.
In all fairness whoever read it back then and did not understand these words are not worth the time since this was pretty much self explanatory... :rolleyes: Are you smarter than a fifth grader - should we ask now :KEK:
 

fool1200

Newbie
Jun 17, 2020
45
109
I dont even now how you managed, but the entire Sage storyline of Ep08 is about her JUST finding out, how the fuck does that translate to a "considerable amount of time" ?

Maya says to the MC that she has not had any experience with financial matters her entire life and the MC says he doesnt know either. They're 18 year old kids.

And I have no idea how the "school financial office" is gonna help her ? What is there to understand, Maya told the MC that her problem is at the bank level, not the school level, so what are they gonna do ? I don't even see any world where they would care, they're getting paid, they wont give a frigg about Maya's family problems.

And Maya didnt come up with the plan to go to Sage's parents, she even refused to tell Sage about her problems to begin with. It's Sage, after beeing persistent, to finally learn about Maya's problem and then SAGE decides that thats what she wants to pursue.

Look, you can keep criticizing DPC's writing, but you should have at least a rough idea what he actually wrote before you do so and then come up with sound solutions not stuff that would actually make the writing worse.
Here is an analogy to show you what's going on more plainly: You friend is seriously troubled by her broken iphone, and tried to get a replacement phone through some ridiculous means and failed. You want to help her and have known this issue for a month. How long do you need until when you come up with the genius idea that maybe she should take the phone to the shop and see whether it can be fixed? Not only you have known this problem, but there's another person (Josy) who knew just as long or longer (let's still say it's a month) and genuinely wants to help. How long would she come up with that suggestion? There's another person (Sage) that recently knew about this but really wanted to help, talked to her for a few hours, and now wants to get her parents involved even though she doesn't want to ask them for more stuff. You don't think Sage's first question would be "have you taken the phone to the shop to know what the specific issue is"?

And how the school financial office is gonna help her? Seriously? I thought it's very clear to everyone involved that Maya doesn't really have a full picture of what is going on. You need to understand the problem before solving it. And the school financial office/treasury/bursar (each school calls it differently) is responsible to charge the tuition. Going there will be the natural first step to get some important answers, in particular, who has been paying Maya's tuition (is it her dad? or the student loan bank actually has been paying?). And they can do much more than providing answers - they deal with student loan issues all the time, maybe they can quickly isolate the problem by making a few phone calls.

By the way, you seem to have the wrong idea about university admin. They absolutely care about keeping the admitted students with the school. Often times there's human decency of wanting to help, but absent that, they still want to charge the student for the sweet tuition money for the next semester. And you can't do that if the student drops out. In plainer terms - if Maya's dad misappropriates Maya's student loan funds, then the dad will keep the money that the school deserves. And I'm sure the school does not want that.

"Maya told the MC that her problem is at the bank level" - sure, because Maya totally knows what's going on? Even if you believe that, why didn't anyone suggest her to talk to the bank? Again, "talk to X" would be the first step that anyone wants to help will suggest, just so that they can understand what the problem really is. The fact that no one suggested that, is just the author putting on idiot ball and railroading the plot.
 
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PashafromRussia

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2019
1,557
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I don't see any problems with Maya at all. The game presents her as a naive fool, under the strict control of her father. He suppresses her will and her dreams, she is afraid of him and it is not surprising that she signed the contract without reading it and so on. Since Maya is naive fool from the country of affectionate puppies and cute fairies, she thinks that someone will solve her problems for her.
Her father solved problems for her. It is very difficult for her to become independent. She really believes that someone in HOTs will provide her with free tutuion, she believes that Burke and Sage will help her, believes that she will date Josie and die with her on the same day.
Does that make her a naive fool? Yes.
Makes her a bad character? No.
Everything related to Maya is a matter of taste. Some people like stupid blondes, and some don't.
 

shazba

Engaged Member
Aug 4, 2020
3,506
19,701
Here is an analogy to show you what's going on more plainly: You friend is seriously troubled by her broken iphone, and tried to get a replacement phone through some ridiculous means and failed. You want to help her and have known this issue for a month. How long do you need until when you come up with the genius idea that maybe she should take the phone to the shop and see whether it can be fixed? Not only you have known this problem, but there's another person (Josy) who knew just as long or longer (let's still say it's a month) and genuinely wants to help. How long would she come up with that suggestion? There's another person (Sage) that recently knew about this but really wanted to help, talked to her for a few hours, and now wants to get her parents involved even though she doesn't want to ask them for more stuff. You don't think Sage's first question would be "have you taken the phone to the shop to know what the specific issue is"?

And how the school financial office is gonna help her? Seriously? I thought it's very clear to everyone involved that Maya doesn't really have a full picture of what is going on. You need to understand the problem before solving it. And the school financial office/treasury/bursar (each school calls it differently) is responsible to charge the tuition. Going there will be the natural first step to get some important answers, in particular, who has been paying Maya's tuition (is it her dad? or the student loan bank actually has been paying?). And they can do much more than providing answers - they deal with student loan issues all the time, maybe they can quickly isolate the problem by making a few phone calls.

By the way, you seem to have the wrong idea about university admin. They absolutely care about keeping the admitted students with the school. Often times there's human decency of wanting to help, but absent that, they still want to charge the student for the sweet tuition money for the next semester. And you can't do that if the student drops out. In plainer terms - if Maya's dad misappropriates Maya's student loan funds, then the dad will keep the money that the school deserves. And I'm sure the school does not want that.

"Maya told the MC that her problem is at the bank level" - sure, because Maya totally knows what's going on? Even if you believe that, why didn't anyone suggest her to talk to the bank? Again, "talk to X" would be the first step that anyone wants to help will suggest, just so that they can understand what the problem really is. The fact that no one suggested that, is just the author putting on idiot ball and railroading the plot.
You're assuming Maya knows which financial institution she's got a loan through. Her dad would have had her sign a bunch of papers, she trusted him at the time, and now she doesn't know what the fuck is going on.

Her dad has told her that if she doesn't do what he's telling her to do, he won't give her the funds to continue paying for college.

He's also told her that she won't be able to get another loan as she's already in debt.

He's also told her that if she doesn't pay off this existing debt, her credit rating will be shit and she's gonna struggle to get a loan for anything in the future.

To a young woman who isn't into finance, all of this sounds possible and so she's scared. She doesn't have the loan details on hand (why would her dad give her a copy of the loan if he intends to blackmail/bluff her?), so she's got no reference to work from.

You iPhone analogy is unfair. You forgot to mention that Sage's parents work for Apple and her dad is a high up in Apple's administration.

To me, this part of the plot will only become a contrivance if Maya explains the situation to Burke (and possibly Jade) and they don't see it for the illegal bullshit it is. The problem is, the preview showing Sage losing her cool makes me concerned that the meeting will be hijacked.
 

OFT

Well-Known Member
Jan 6, 2020
1,165
14,051
I don't see any problems with Maya at all. The game presents her as a naive fool, under the strict control of her father. He suppresses her will and her dreams, she is afraid of him and it is not surprising that she signed the contract without reading it and so on. Since Maya is naive fool from the country of affectionate puppies and cute fairies, she thinks that someone will solve her problems for her.
Her father solved problems for her. It is very difficult for her to become independent. She really believes that someone in HOTs will provide her with free tutuion, she believes that Burke and Sage will help her, believes that she will date Josie and die with her on the same day.
Does that make her a naive fool? Yes.
Makes her a bad character? No.
Everything related to Maya is a matter of taste. Some people like stupid blondes, and some don't.


The only real problem I have with Maya:


Maya's only problem.png
 

fool1200

Newbie
Jun 17, 2020
45
109
I don't see any problems with Maya at all. The game presents her as a naive fool, under the strict control of her father. He suppresses her will and her dreams, she is afraid of him and it is not surprising that she signed the contract without reading it and so on. Since Maya is naive fool from the country of affectionate puppies and cute fairies, she thinks that someone will solve her problems for her.
Her father solved problems for her. It is very difficult for her to become independent. She really believes that someone in HOTs will provide her with free tutuion, she believes that Burke and Sage will help her, believes that she will date Josie and die with her on the same day.
Does that make her a naive fool? Yes.
Makes her a bad character? No.
Everything related to Maya is a matter of taste. Some people like stupid blondes, and some don't.
To be clear, I'm 100% okay with Maya being a fool/naive/dumb about finances. There are so many people like that, some way older than her fictional age.

What I'm not okay with, is that non-naive people spend considerable amount of time to help her, and yet no one suggest a very simple and obvious thing to do. That's the author pulling out the idiot ball and railroading the plot.
 

shazba

Engaged Member
Aug 4, 2020
3,506
19,701
To be clear, I'm 100% okay with Maya being a fool/naive/dumb about finances. There are so many people like that, some way older than her fictional age.

What I'm not okay with, is that non-naive people spend considerable amount of time to help her, and yet no one suggest a very simple and obvious thing to do. That's the author pulling out the idiot ball and railroading the plot.
But what's obvious?

Do we need to have a conversation like this in the game:

Josy: Why don't you just go to the bank and try to sort it out?​
Maya: I don't know what bank it is through. My dad just gave me some papers and I signed them. I'm such a fool!​
Josy: Then get a lawyer.​
Maya: I can't afford one! That's why I'm fucked in the first place!​
Josy: How about speaking with the school administration? Surely they can help you, or at least tell you how your loan is currently being paid.​
Maya: I've already tried that. They said my current fees are up-to-date, but my dad said he will stop paying if I don't stop munching on your carpet.​
Josy: Oh you like the trim? I did it for Fuckface, he liked it too.​
Maya: Yeah, it's nice, it suits you.​
Derek: Are we talking about Jo Jo's landing strip?​
Maya: Fuck off Derek!​
Josy: So what the fuck are you gonna do? Your life's ruined! How about you get a job and try to pay the loan back?​
Maya: Fuck that, I'm not working!​

There's plenty of reasons why Maya has hit a brick wall.
 

fool1200

Newbie
Jun 17, 2020
45
109
You're assuming Maya knows which financial institution she's got a loan through. Her dad would have had her sign a bunch of papers, she trusted him at the time, and now she doesn't know what the fuck is going on.

Her dad has told her that if she doesn't do what he's telling her to do, he won't give her the funds to continue paying for college.

He's also told her that she won't be able to get another loan as she's already in debt.

He's also told her that if she doesn't pay off this existing debt, her credit rating will be shit and she's gonna struggle to get a loan for anything in the future.

To a young woman who isn't into finance, all of this sounds possible and so she's scared. She doesn't have the loan details on hand (why would her dad give her a copy of the loan if he intends to blackmail/bluff her?), so she's got no reference to work from.

You iPhone analogy is unfair. You forgot to mention that Sage's parents work for Apple and her dad is a high up in Apple's administration.

To me, this part of the plot will only become a contrivance if Maya explains the situation to Burke (and possibly Jade) and they don't see it for the illegal bullshit it is. The problem is, the preview showing Sage losing her cool makes me concerned that the meeting will be hijacked.
Well, do you see why I said anyone trying to help her will ask her to talk to the school financial office? Because that's the one place that can answer a lot of questions and give her a lot of help. They can tell her whether she can get another loan. They can tell her how credit rating works (maybe, not all schools go this far). Maybe her student loan lender bank is in her records. If Maya is lucky, she will discover that everything is a bluff from his dad and the school is in fact getting money from the bank. And lastly, if her dad somehow actually obtained the money (it really doesn't work like that - the bank agent will get chewed/fired for doing that), then it's likely that other parents can commit/have committed the same kind of fraud and the school will have experience dealing with that. And it's in the school best interest to help, so the school gets the money it deserves.
 

deuxrayme

Member
Nov 4, 2018
458
1,218
I want to know why Maya, in the late 2010s, hasn't sat down with a search engine to try to find answers. I've been using search engines since the Ask Jeeves days to find answers to things. I know the answer lies in the writing because the only student rooms I remember seeing have a computer are Magnar's and the Food Zone at the dorm party. All of the DIKs share one laptop so the internet doesn't exist to any significant extent outside of Rooster in this game world but it is very unrealistic to the setting.
 

PashafromRussia

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2019
1,557
5,509
To be clear, I'm 100% okay with Maya being a fool/naive/dumb about finances. There are so many people like that, some way older than her fictional age.

What I'm not okay with, is that non-naive people spend considerable amount of time to help her, and yet no one suggest a very simple and obvious thing to do. That's the author pulling out the idiot ball and railroading the plot.
Maya's problem is that Maya doesn't want to solve her problems, but wants someone to do it for her. As I said, this is her character trait. She's so used to it that her father decides everything for her and doesn't even risk finding a job on her own, lol. And those who can help her do not understand anything about it. МС repaired the mansion and fucked chicks throughout season 2 (I would do the same in his place), and Josie seems to also care about her problems and parties in HOTs.

Ironically, only Sage is really interested in solving her problems, whereas her closest people, such as Derek, MC and Josie literally don't care about her.
I do not know if it was done on purpose or by accident, but it suggests certain thoughts.
 

fool1200

Newbie
Jun 17, 2020
45
109
The crux of the matter is no one has spent any time trying to do anything related to Maya's predicament other than get Maya into the HOTs.

That was Maya's plan. She didn't ask for anyone to help her in regards to her loan issue until the HOTs free tuition evaporated.

That was right at the end of episode 6. That was a year ago for us. Not that long ago for the Scooby Gang.

As soon as she mentioned it to Sage, Sage figured her parents could help out. I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that they will just outright pay for Maya's tuition, because no one in the game has suggested that. But Burke is high up in the college administration, so maybe he can help, some how.

Given how Sage is loath to ask her parents for any help, she could have tried other avenues to assist Maya, but she figured her parents were the best option.

That's definitely not a stretch of the imagination that a young adult might speak with their parents before they start running around making appointments with legal aide.

My month time frame was for the mc alone, and you may have noticed, he's been serious fucking preoccupied, as I already outlined. Sage just found out about it, Derek is an idiot, and we don't know about Josy.

Personally I think it's comprehension that's the issue here, not the writing...
My point is that "go talk to the school financial office/the bank" take no time to come up, yet no one says it. Sage at least spent 30-60 min with Maya on this topic. Do you think it really takes that long for anyone to suggest talking and collecting relevant information? It's not a situation where you need to spend years to design a rocket, it's a question of suggesting "if you want to build a rocket that can leave earth, you need to have a place that you can build it".

And by the way, if you don't want to ask your parents for help, and there's a school office that's dedicated to the issue you care about and free to use, wouldn't you go to that office first? Why would you go to your parents first? Wouldn't that be against the entire premise?

"I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that they will just outright pay for Maya's tuition, because no one in the game has suggested that." Ok I was exaggerating, but they are making this meeting way too big of a deal for what it really is so I got carried away.
 
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