- Jul 20, 2019
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- Thread starter Ryahn
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- Aug 12, 2019
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Alright, I've played through this game a few times and feel like leaving behind some of my quandaries and findings.
[Disclosure, I never played BS1.]
1. Is the Teddy Bear the Prayer Master from the first game?
2. Do you think we will play as Grimm again in the third game?
My ruminations have led me to believe Grimm's immortality is tied to the stability of wonderland. Without a doubt he is Alice's betrothed originally, but due to Mary Ann's and The Crawling One's meddling the truth of it all was obscured to him. It's apparent that even after Grimm defeated Leaf in the first game there is a gap in time. I used to think SEN was short for Soul Energy but I found it peculiar how much it plays into sanity. This is a heavy allusion to the sequel of Alice in Wonderland, Lewis Caroll's "Through the Looking-Glass, And What Alice Found There".
Alice again enters a fantastical world, this time by climbing through a mirror into the world that she can see beyond it. There she finds that, just like a reflection, everything is reversed, including logic.
3. Except in this case, Grimm is the one looking and Alice is what he is trying to find. Unbeknownst to him, he is being manipulated to propagate offspring for eldritch creatures? I surmise the second game is not even taking place in Wonderland but The Looking Glass World and in ending G/F (what is ending F again?) Grimm manages to escape to Wonderland. The reason Red Riding Hood knows Grimm before all of this transpires is because she (and a few others) are from Wonderland and traversing the different worlds?
[Disclosure, I never played BS1.]
1. Is the Teddy Bear the Prayer Master from the first game?
2. Do you think we will play as Grimm again in the third game?
My ruminations have led me to believe Grimm's immortality is tied to the stability of wonderland. Without a doubt he is Alice's betrothed originally, but due to Mary Ann's and The Crawling One's meddling the truth of it all was obscured to him. It's apparent that even after Grimm defeated Leaf in the first game there is a gap in time. I used to think SEN was short for Soul Energy but I found it peculiar how much it plays into sanity. This is a heavy allusion to the sequel of Alice in Wonderland, Lewis Caroll's "Through the Looking-Glass, And What Alice Found There".
Alice again enters a fantastical world, this time by climbing through a mirror into the world that she can see beyond it. There she finds that, just like a reflection, everything is reversed, including logic.
3. Except in this case, Grimm is the one looking and Alice is what he is trying to find. Unbeknownst to him, he is being manipulated to propagate offspring for eldritch creatures? I surmise the second game is not even taking place in Wonderland but The Looking Glass World and in ending G/F (what is ending F again?) Grimm manages to escape to Wonderland. The reason Red Riding Hood knows Grimm before all of this transpires is because she (and a few others) are from Wonderland and traversing the different worlds?
1. No prayer master is dead (killed by grimm in d end of BS 1 and he betrayed crawling one anyway, there's no way she would let him come back)
2. Definitely, Mabel implies it and the series revolves around Grimm
3. Ending F is if you choose mary sue instead of red hood, it's a bad end essentially. Red Hood is a creation of mary sue, but she might be aware of her character's origins. There was an interview with toro recently where he explained the only reason red hood is in 2 is because she got help from node.
About that interview, toro answered some interesting things:
Crawling one wasn't at full power in G end because it refused to drop the Alice facade because then Grimm wouldn't love her.
Red hood's will power is strong enough to overwrite the ending Mary Sue intended for her (red hood's) game.
Red hood's game was confirmed to be a garden created by Mary Sue.
The Red hood that appears in reality at the end of G end really is red hood and not crawling one or anyone posing as her.
He also talked a bit about future works. Besides dlc 3, he is planning 2 other games. One featuring red hood again and the other featuring the demon princesses. I think these are intended to be a lead up to BS 3. So no BS 3 for a good while.
2. Definitely, Mabel implies it and the series revolves around Grimm
3. Ending F is if you choose mary sue instead of red hood, it's a bad end essentially. Red Hood is a creation of mary sue, but she might be aware of her character's origins. There was an interview with toro recently where he explained the only reason red hood is in 2 is because she got help from node.
About that interview, toro answered some interesting things:
Crawling one wasn't at full power in G end because it refused to drop the Alice facade because then Grimm wouldn't love her.
Red hood's will power is strong enough to overwrite the ending Mary Sue intended for her (red hood's) game.
Red hood's game was confirmed to be a garden created by Mary Sue.
The Red hood that appears in reality at the end of G end really is red hood and not crawling one or anyone posing as her.
He also talked a bit about future works. Besides dlc 3, he is planning 2 other games. One featuring red hood again and the other featuring the demon princesses. I think these are intended to be a lead up to BS 3. So no BS 3 for a good while.
- Dec 4, 2019
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Oooh another RRH game? plz tell me we'll see uncle grimm as an npc Q wQ
Demon princesses huh? Rapunzel ftw!!!
- Jul 20, 2019
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Guess Nya would still have some role in the future then, but they aren't 100% because they don't want to drop the Alice face is interesting.
So End G both Grimm and Red Riding Hood did return to the waking world even though they are creation of Mary Sue in her own Dreamland?
Yish, I want to see the Wonderland adventure in Red's perspective. If about demonic princess though, RAPUNZEL PLS LOLI BANZAI
- Aug 12, 2019
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Aw, I was hoping we would be able to play as some kind of usurper in the future. Fight alongside or against Grimm's companions to end the Crawling One.
- Jul 20, 2019
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- Dec 4, 2019
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Grimm's ending in BS 3 will be him exploding -> making a world that's finally peaceful for RRH to stay in and tadah happy ending Q wQ
Specifically it was said crawling one was "the strongest ruler" but because it refused to drop the role of Alice, it was weakened (enough for Grimm and Red hood to kill it?). Speculated by the interviewer that it would not drop it because there would be no chance of Grimm loving her then. Toro said crawling one was already crazy and didn't confirm it was because of love or not.
Interview didn't specifically refer to it as reality, just as G end. The question was "Was G end's Red hood really Red hood?" And the answer was yes, it's really red. Don't worry because the face doesn't turn black or anything like that.
Also forgot the most important point from the interview. It seems Toro has a green hair fetish (Mary Sue).
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- Dec 4, 2019
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Ok, so now I wonder since they're "creations", will they fade out slowly in time? like weakening due to world difference or something?
Well, Red hood only has a year anyway(maybe her new game will deal with this) and Grimm might be strong enough or have enough souls to sustain himself. There's also the option of Grimm becoming a ruler/creator and maybe he can rewrite Red hood and sustain himself that way.
- Dec 4, 2019
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Who knows, maybe her ending will be her dyin' and Grimm (prolly a creator now) will rewrite 'er again?
She did say "they" can be revived via fairy tale books, dunno if that line was from BS 1 or 2
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This is a long one so buckle up
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But Mary isn't strong enough to splat Baphomet before you weaken her at D end so how would Mary Sue be strong enough to splat Alice 01 if she is crawling one, who should be even stronger than Baphomet. It can't be simply because she was in alice form since even at the end of D end Crawling one is still in Alice form and overpowers Mary sue (and possibly Grimm at the same time). Mary at the end of D end wasn't afraid of that Alice, only confused at how she got there, until she realized it was actually crawling one and not a copy of the original Alice. I also doubt Grimm had any power to resist Mary sue at prayer master's betrayal since he hasn't the time or reason to gather souls(tea parties all day erry day). There is also no reason Alice/Prickett/crawling one and Grimm had to be together at the time when Mary sue decided to steal away Grimm.
D end is definitely obviously canon end. It's the only end where Baphomet must be dead and Mabel complains about that in dlc 2. C end can't be canon because if you recruit Miranda and kill Baphomet before starting that end, Lindamea gives up his hunt for you. However, Red hood says Lindamea is still hunting you in bs 2. But we know that both baphomet dieing and recruiting miranda happened. And A/B ends can't be canon because neither of those result in Mary's defeat (unless you choose a character end which is a kind of defeat for her lol).
D end is definitely obviously canon end. It's the only end where Baphomet must be dead and Mabel complains about that in dlc 2. C end can't be canon because if you recruit Miranda and kill Baphomet before starting that end, Lindamea gives up his hunt for you. However, Red hood says Lindamea is still hunting you in bs 2. But we know that both baphomet dieing and recruiting miranda happened. And A/B ends can't be canon because neither of those result in Mary's defeat (unless you choose a character end which is a kind of defeat for her lol).
- Mar 25, 2019
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I think all the ends in BS1 and BS2 are canon, because after the story end, mary sue just erase the memories of Grimm and restart the story until the end where she is defeated and the Crawling one begin the BS2
I took the quote from you saying that the Crawling One wasn't in her full power when wearing the face of Alice. We know that Alice/Prickett.
1. Didn't want Grimm to see her in her truth form, but we don't know how much power she restrained to keep that mask on.
2. Didn't want to rule or force you to keep dreaming, rejecting whatever power that comes with being ruler. In her words she was "a coward who didn't know how to say goodbye". Therefore she could have lost to Mary Sue on purpose to avoid saying goodbye to Grimm.
3. She keep reminding Grimm to "Remember Alice", the time they spend before BS1. Fully aware that Alice 02, is strong enough to take back control , and when she do, you will be only looking at her.
BTW I'm not talking about the Alice at the beginning of BS1. That one is probably a Mary Sue's "fuck you" present, an empty clone waiting to be spat. If she's Alice 01, she shouldn't have to introduce herself and ask for your name. I'm talking about the Alice that predate BS1.
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Tea party Alice =/= Alice 01. Whenever anyone says Alice 01, they mean the BS 1 opening one because she made Alice 02. She has to introduce herself and ask for your name because Mary Sue fucked Grimm's memory and set up a story for him. The Alice that should be remembered in BS 1 may not be the Alice from the Tea party but the one the Tea party Alice is based on. The original Alice that is locked in the "white space" where the original Victoria escaped from in BS 2.
Also keep in mind, Alice 02 is a DOLL; she has a recording function, she has doll joints, she drops a fairy tale which outer ones don't drop. She's nothing like crawling one. Even the portraits between 02 and the one at D end are different, albeit very slightly. There's no way Mary Sue would leave Crawling one roaming about her garden after coming in direct contact with Grimm. She splats a rabbit literally right outside the library.
I agree though that Tea Party Alice is probably Prickett.
- Jul 20, 2019
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Okay, for the sake of number consistency, I will start calling original Wonderland Alice as Alice 00. But I don't think there are solid evident stating that the one you meet at the beginning is the same one from Alice 02's recording. From what I saw, Alice 02 describes herself as a replica of "Alice 01" (If you can show me the doll part that would be great). This might have been misunderstood by the player, since the only Alice you saw up to this point is the BS1 intro Alice or what you guys call "Alice 01".
I'm not sure why Alice 02 dropping a fairy tale rules her out as not an outer being. Like my theory stated, the Crawling being seem take a dream and use it as a foundation to build its world. So it would make MORE sense that it would drop a fairy tail.
As for what happen after Mary Sue took over. She have no power whether a Crawling being stay or not. We already establish that a Crawling being at full strength is above or even to Mary Sue. So hiding its own present/power shouldn't be too difficult.
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Why can't Prickett BE the original Crawling one, like my theory stated above? Wouldn't it make more sense if Prickett was always The Crawling ONE and the one you meet in G is an incomplete incarnation of her?
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- Jul 20, 2019
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