RPGM Completed Black Souls II [v1.13 Official translation] [Eeny, meeny, miny, moe?]

[Deleted member 4771842]

On the contrary, I think the dev intends/hints for Grimm to become Azathoth (ruler/greatest of the Outer Gods). Azathoth being called the "idiot" (may reflect the many bad decisions of Grimm), and all the Outer Gods want to fck with him. The end of DLC 3 suggests (I only read but never reached the ending yet) that Grimm is about to become an Outer God, and in every game everytime grimm "wakes up", the garden/ reality itself shatters. So in every game the theme is trapping grimm into a "sleeping" state, unaware of the true reality of what happens. Would also be on track how he keeps getting stronger and keeps defeating outer god per outer god.

Isn't Azathoth a

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? He looks like a sleeping god. You'll face it if you look for 10 seconds in the telescope with 0 or less SEN.
And when Grimm woke up in G end nothing changed. World/Garden shattered in two cases:
1) D ending in BS1, when Grimm caused too much trouble by unlocking powers of TCO in C end (in my opinion) and offering Baphomet to visit Holy Forest.
2) By destroying Grand Guignol.
I didn't see that world was shattered by Grimm waking up, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Phenir]

C end in bs 1 has nothing to do with crawling one as it's the scenario plotted out by Mary Sue. After you get C end, if you watch Leaf's character ending again it gets extended similar to how the other ones do if you have Leaf's ring. Mary Sue intended you to gather the fairy tales by killing all your friends, and then fight her at the "end of the world" scenario.

 

[Deleted member 4771842]

C end in bs 1 has nothing to do with crawling one as it's the scenario plotted out by Mary Sue. After you get C end, if you watch Leaf's character ending again it gets extended similar to how the other ones do if you have Leaf's ring. Mary Sue intended you to gather the fairy tales by killing all your friends, and then fight her at the "end of the world" scenario.

I thought so too and it's technically correct but objectively complete destruction of her Garden should make it harder to control and ending D proves it. How? Imagine Grimm achieving endings in order from A to D, which was intentional by developer regarding rising difficulty (Sabbath Forest and Black Trial are the most difficult zones in the game). After destroying her own garden in ending C, she repairs everything back but it becomes less stable (you can't visit the room with lever again for a reason), and everything would be great if Grimm just went into another loop/time travel (time freezes for Grimm, while Mary Sue regains her strength and control over Garden, and when she finishes she just unfreezes him theoretically), but he decided to visit Black Trial.
When Grimm let Baphomet visit Holy Forest, she probably unintentionally made Garden even more unstable by destroying it almost completely, and TCO used that situation.

 

[HeckBum69]

There is no "technically correct", you've already gone through this on a previous convo with the same person.
End D is the canon BS1 ending, it's not part of a cycle unlike the previous endings, period, stop reading too much into it.
This is pretty much a consensus of the community by this point...

It's much easier for you to accept that instead of continuing your shaky and barely supported theories that would probably end up confusing someone new looking for answers on the already cryptic plot.

Everytime you post a wall of text for them there's at least 3 different things wrong with it, and everytime it's always you picking on a single plot point that has either been misunderstood/overanylized and ignoring the several other instances that contradict what you're stating.

I know I probably sound like an ass here, but give it some rest dude.
You've literally tried to use the game's skin mechanic, that has absolutely 0 effect on how the characters view Grimm, as an argument as to why he could be an Outer One based on "gender change", pls, you're being stubborn.

 

[Deleted member 4771842]

There is no "technically correct", you've already gone through this on a previous convo with the same person.
End D is the canon BS1 ending, it's not part of a cycle unlike the previous endings, period, stop reading too much into it.
This is pretty much a consensus of the community by this point...

It's much easier for you to accept that instead of continuing your shaky and barely supported theories that would probably end up confusing someone new looking for answers on the already cryptic plot.

Everytime you post a wall of text for them there's at least 3 different things wrong with it, and everytime it's always you picking on a single plot point that has either been misunderstood/overanylized and ignoring the several other instances that contradict what you're stating.

I know I probably sound like an ass here, but give it some rest dude.
You've literally tried to use the game's skin mechanic, that has absolutely 0 effect on how the characters view Grimm, as an argument as to why he could be an Outer One based on "gender change", pls, you're being stubborn.

Then explain, why can't you reach C ending any time in the same "loop"? You can do it only one time and for a reason. I gave you my explanation. If you don't like it, give a better one.

 

[HeckBum69]

Again, you look only at one point and ignore others, End C isn't the only Ending you can't get more than once in the same cycle, you can't get End D either. You can get C then D or D then C, it doesn't matter the order, only one of those 2 doesn't have a "continuation". And that's D.

If I had to give an explanation, it'd be because there's no more plot twist to be unveiled.
Leaf already got to show her "love letter" to Grimm and experience the Ending she wrote for herself, it's done, everything in this Ending is planned, her Garden isn't weakened by it in any way.

But I'm no loremaster and I could be wrong, but I do know that your reasoning just doesn't hold up.

 

[Deleted member 4771842]

Again, you look only at one point and ignore others, End C isn't the only Ending you can't get more than once in the same cycle, you can't get End D either. You can get C then D or D then C, it doesn't matter the order, only one of those 2 doesn't have a "continuation". And that's D.

If I had to give an explanation, it'd be because there's no more plot twist to be unveiled.
Leaf already got to show her "love letter" to Grimm and experience the Ending she wrote for herself, it's done, everything in this Ending is planned, her Garden isn't weakened by it in any way.

But I'm no loremaster and I could be wrong, but I do know that your reasoning just doesn't hold up.

Surely you can't get ending D more than once too, but does it make sense if you get ending C after getting ending D? I don't think so. In ending D Leaf/Mary Sue clearly getting almost killed by TCO and saved by Node after, just to capture her and take away her divine power, so everything that happens after D ending is unreal, except when Grimm walk to the tree to meet "Alice" on the other side after corpse of Jabberwock tells about the Crawling One and disappears. Though that makes a little sense too, since

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All in all, order and consequences (you can't get both endings more than once) make sense but Toro (developer of the game) couldn't program that good enough, only give hints.

What can you say about that?

 

[Beyo]

This is less of a lore issue and more of a gameplay one. End C in Black Souls I is available, even after End D, because it's there for the player to experience it. The ability to experience D before C or C before D is just game design, just as much as BSII's ending being final was another game design choice. It's just picking your route. This is a level lower from speculating that a Resident Evil protagonist surviving a zombie bite during combat is immune, when it's really just a case of the gameplay not accurately reflecting the lore. You don't think about these things, especially when how you played doesn't matter in the overall story.

 

[Deleted member 4771842]

This is less of a lore issue and more of a gameplay one. End C in Black Souls I is available, even after End D, because it's there for the player to experience it. The ability to experience D before C or C before D is just game design, just as much as BSII's ending being final was another game design choice. It's just picking your route. This is a level lower from speculating that a Resident Evil protagonist surviving a zombie bite during combat is immune, when it's really just a case of the gameplay not accurately reflecting the lore. You don't think about these things, especially when how you played doesn't matter in the overall story.

Correct, that was just made for the sake of convenience. Imagine "looping" after every ending. That would be frustrating. Yet, endings are ordered for a reason, telling you how Grimm but not you experienced things. Though this is just a theory with implicit hints...
After all, developer could just restart the world himself after any ending, yet he gives you the option to do so, but also restricts you from getting C and D ending again in the same "loop". It makes them important/influential.

 

[Phenir]

Ending A and B don't require any flags to be reset. Ending C and D involve multiple flags being set that would need to be unset to do the ending again properly (especially ending C). It honestly probably just comes down to workload not being worth it when you can avoid doing all that with just one flag that prevents getting the ending sequence again. Good example of over analyzing something when in the end, it is just a game and has such limitations.

 

[p23rklo]

Damn there's a whole Horror VN aspect in DLC 3 lol
I finished the VN with a few jump scares here and there but no definite bad ending/death.

Can you fail the VN section or is it "linear", can you die in it? I keep seeing the ghost 4th girl but she's harmless and the smiling man just jump scare smile.

 

[Gterus]

Damn there's a whole Horror VN aspect in DLC 3 lol
I finished the VN with a few jump scares here and there but no definite bad ending/death.

Can you fail the VN section or is it "linear", can you die in it? I keep seeing the ghost 4th girl but she's harmless and the smiling man just jump scare smile.

As far as I know, you can't fail the VN. It's just harder to get out if you manage to screw up and have the spooky mfs "flirting" with you because you'll need to spam the door on the way out a few times.

(my honest reaction when I experienced the VN for the first time)

 

[p23rklo]

Damn, Ending H really it the "true ending". The loop stopped at Ending H, the game just ends (and goes back to the title screen). With the next game of the developer being about Dead Red hood or something, it kind of "cheapens" the ending of BS2 if it will be a sequel of some kind for this game (since Ending H character dying will have less impact and suggests that they will still be alive/ become undead).

Either way, the game hints that Grimm will be able to finally have his "good ending" at BS3, something about the power of creation and being able to create at will (thus reversing his tragedies/ atrocities). It would be an awkward conversation if by DS3 he revives the BS1 girls he killed brutally in the Hotel. Hopefully they address that within the dialogue lol.

 

[Deleted member 4771842]

Ending A and B don't require any flags to be reset. Ending C and D involve multiple flags being set that would need to be unset to do the ending again properly (especially ending C). It honestly probably just comes down to workload not being worth it when you can avoid doing all that with just one flag that prevents getting the ending sequence again. Good example of over analyzing something when in the end, it is just a game and has such limitations.

Developer could unset flags by "resetting" the world, meaning that he'd add a script in the end of endings C and D that he already left for you to activate in the Holy Forest, but he didn't do it for your own convenience.
And your theory maybe correct too, though even if you reset flags by going into "another loop", you can't reset everything completely, you'll always be greeted by Leaf, knowing that you "looped".
So, it can be a combination of solutions for developer's convenience and user's convenience too, but it doesn't make my theory any less reasonable.
Ending C weakened Leaf and after ending D Grimm couldn't continue looping, unless Grimm was a part of Leaf's Dream (not just garden), that just slowly losing stability after TCO's attack and eventually crumbled completely.

I'll explain this prototype of a theory in a rough image. Different layers of existence:

Anyway, I don't see everything I said before any less reasonable.

 

[PantherMouse]

Is the version in the first page the updated and final version including the DLC's?

 

[Deleted member 4771842]

Is the version in the first page the updated and final version including the DLC's?

There are 3 DLC in this version. For most people it's final version, but somewhere also Chinese, 4th DLC exists if I'm not mistaken.

 

[PantherMouse]

There are 3 DLC in this version.

Why does people in the YouTube comment sections(Years Ago 2020 or something) say that don't use F95 version?

 

[sammo905]

Why does people in the YouTube comment sections(Years Ago 2020 or something) say that don't use F95 version?

probs talking about the translation that came from here there's no issue with it as it works fine
but the offical one in used in this thread fits the authors vison better and covers the whole game too can't remember if f95 translation covers dlc 3 or not

 

[Deleted member 4771842]

Why does people in the YouTube comment sections(Years Ago 2020 or something) say that don't use F95 version?

I don't know, game works fine, no viruses too, and contains 3 dlc's.

 

[Deleted member 4771842]

Don't be too rude to me please, I'm just spitting out crazy theories and trying to see if they can be completely refuted. Perceive this as a game please :3
(Is it me or it's giving vibes from Ace Attorney?)