RPGM Completed Black Souls II [v1.13 Official translation] [Eeny, meeny, miny, moe?]

[Omnom88]

What is the point in looking for Alice? Alice Liddell did everything she could with a help of TCO to make Carroll forget real Alice and let his dream come true. If only Mary Sue and other Outer Ones didn't intervene... *sigh*

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I meant that the Alice he truly wants was Alice-02, since she drops a fairy tale. But of course he can be easily manipulated into copulating with anything that looks and smells like Alice. If he was blind, perhaps he'd also have sex with a humming lady, since it's most probably mature version of Alice Liddell. Her drops are Girl's Photo and Girl's Scent.

Sure.

At least most of them the books related to Mary Sue or her family, my bad. Then Baphomet tried to kill Mary Sue because she didn't need two of the same girl?

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But if we are talking about Alice in Wonderland, Cheshire Cat is the author's avatar. I can only guess too what Toro choose in his own game, though I won't say that I'm 100% correct. Sometimes truth is much simpler than we may think.

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[Deleted member 4771842]

Uhh. The main point is Alice is the bait. Bait for Grimm to continue his endless journey because of Carrolls obsession. Bait to make Grimm have sex with as many eldritch monsters/outer ones as possible. In order to produce many many powerfull eldritch children. That was the original purpose before TCO went insane. If and how much Alice wish had any sort of weight is unknown.
For all we know the old woman called Alice Lidell didnt have a great time when TCO decended upon her. And the white space suggests whatever exactly remains there from the original Alice Lidell aka memory`s or her "soul". She isnt aware whats going on outside this space.
The same way Victoria told us when she was stuck in white space & we know she was used as the base material for the Victoria clone in BS1.

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Where a person (Jabberwock most likely) is dragging a "mirror of herself" towards gear`s crushing them. Twin`s usually look similar.

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The "creator" of "Wonderland" in this case is TCO/The Crawling One. Every single character in this eldritch Wonderland is a actor. Playing their part in the "roleplay setting" for "Wonderland".
Either a brainwashed & kidnapped human or other eldritch entity`s, Outer Gods in disguise or fragments of TCO, nightmare spirits dragged into this reality & conceptual fairy tales given form.

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Chesire Cat is playing the role given to her. NPCs are playing the role given to them. SEN/Sanity reflect`s Grimm POV vs how reality really is. From the evidence surrounding Chesire Cat`s scenes. Flashback to the Lidell house cat, dialog in the endings, conversations at bornfires etc.
There is not much else evidence that Chesire Cat/Dinah is more than what was shown & told.

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[Omnom88]

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Clearly Black Souls hooked you hard.
Heck Black Souls was the reason i made a account here & my first post asking lore questions was unhinged as fuck.
The best thing i can recommend if you want to properly deep dive into the rabbit hole.
Start from page 1 to 432. Back then people way smarter than me figured out lore connections & plot twists. That helped me understand the hidden backround plot & relationships between characters.
I did the same thing & even during 2023 i still found out new stuff with the help of users here.
From missing special boss encounters in the Chaos Dungeon or NPC quest conditions.

Or in other word`s go back in time(pages) & find Alice.
A bunch of us are already there we'll be waiting .

 

[Deleted member 4771842]

Clearly Black Souls hooked you hard.
Heck Black Souls was the reason i made a account here & my first post asking lore questions was unhinged as fuck.
The best thing i can recommend if you want to properly deep dive into the rabbit hole.
Start from page 1 to 432. Back then people way smarter than me figured out lore connections & plot twists. That helped me understand the hidden backround plot & relationships between characters.
I did the same thing & even during 2023 i still found out new stuff with the help of users here.
From missing special boss encounters in the Chaos Dungeon or NPC quest conditions.

Or in other word`s go back in time(pages) & find Alice.
A bunch of us are already there we'll be waiting .

I can see that I did tire you, I apologize.
Also, Alice alone can't satisfy my... curiosity~

 

[Phenir]

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Rather those outer ones that don't want children are exceptions. The garden wars are a thing and the children are the soldiers.

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A mirror of someone is not their opposite. If someone says a person is a "mirror image" of another person, they don't mean they are their negative (that would be more commonly referred to as a shadow), they mean the two people look exactly alike. This is where a lot of frustration in this discussion is coming from. Your understanding of the English language isn't the greatest which leads to weird interpretations of text a native speaker would never arrive at.
Like your obsession with Cheshire being Alice based partly on the line "seeing the dream of dear Alice". That doesn't mean she is seeing the dream Alice is seeing. She is seeing "the dream of dear Alice", or the ideal of Alice, or her ideal Alice even since she goes on to elaborate that Alice is still Alice regardless of her imperfections. Combined with her dialogue just prior to her boss fight where she exposits her own past as Alice's cat and states how eager she is to meet Alice, she clearly is not Alice in any way, shape, or form past, present, or future.

 

[wulfgarthewise]

Violence creates violence eh?

1) Also, what do you think about Grimm/Carroll's nature? Do you find a choice to kill and rape strange? I'd doubt that Grimm and Carroll would like to kill or rape someone beforehand.
Perhaps it's in the nature of body that Mary Sue made for them? Body of a goat creature (you get a goat meat if you put your hand into door with teeth in duchess's house). After all, needs of a body and mind are separate, though interconnected, meaning that your mind/consciousness feels disturbed/unhappy if your body feels discomfort or pain for example. You can recognize that and you can choose what to do with that if you are self-conscious enough, unlike animals, that are acting mostly basing on their physical needs. Killing for the sake of dominance/safety and rape for the sake of dominance/pleasure/wild desire for reproduction. They are the lowest, the most basic needs.
View attachment 3237200
2) Though I don't understand why Grimm lost control over his body and raped Red Hood in the Upper Lutwige. She said "You are not Grimm". That was broken mind of Carroll that took over Grimm? Outer Ones intervention? Or just needs of a body made by Mary Sue?
Potentially she could create a body with a desire to rape anything that looks like Alice but... Grimm lost control only in Upper Lutwige, where Alice's clothes were conveniently placed. Strange...

1. Idk tbh. Lewis Caroll being a pedophile irl is a bit of a pop-culture myth, but it seems pretty likely he is one in Black Souls if we take the Alice memories for granted. Grimm being rapey/murdery can be safely chalked up to Mary Sue's creation of Grimm and the awfulness of smashing 8 or more souls together into a regular person. Maybe Lewis is the base person, and all the authors hate him b/c he's a pedo. Who knows!
2. TCO made Grimm obsessed with finding Alice. It's part of his very fucked up idea of love and the whole breeding thing they have going on. Is that Lewis Caroll? Probably not. I don't think Grimm is actually, canonically evil.

 

[p23rklo]

It seems the Dead Red hood game is still up for debate on when it occurs timeline wise, will it be before BS1? After Red Riding Woods, after BS1 but before BS2, or post BS2. But a few evidence in DLC 3 suggests it might occur post BS2. On the developer Ci EN it is stated that the game may come with a short "game" of some sort where Grimm and RRH live in one house together (either post BS2 end H, or end G). That game is separate from the DRH (dead red hood) game (so the timeline for the game is still a mystery). Another hint is after dueling Lindamea in DLC3, he shows interest in Red Hood and even states that he intends to rebuild the Black trial. Black trial is the organization Red Hood joins in DRH in order to "atone" for either her sins or for Grimm or both (I only MTL'd the Ci EN). Interestingly enough on the characters introduced so far that are in the black trial, LORD Hein and Miranda/Merphylla are not in it. So this suggests that either this game may take place after BS1 before BS2, or post BS2 (miranda wants to be corpse eating miranda/vagrant, LORD hein wants to be a train conductor).

So with that in mind, if DRH is set after BS2 then it may be set in the short time before RRH becomes bedridden/ close to death (to twist the knife even further), so the setting may be Grimm escapes wonderland/winterbell and returns to reality. Grimm spends a short amount of time with RRH living together, some shenanigans happens and RRH needs to join Black trial in Agartha (DRH game setting). DRH ends, RRH reunities with Grimm, RRH's lifespan is close to ending. Cue Heartbreak end CG. So the game would be one "final" send off for RRH till she possibly/hopefully gets revived in BS3.

One interesting part about the demonic princess game (based on Ci EN 2022 post) is that they will be the heroines of that game (allied with protagonist which will be another male [most likely not GRIMM]). It will be a hunting like game wherein you can build and craft weapons based on monster drops (kind of like monster hunter but turn based probably).

 

[Deleted member 4771842]

Rather those outer ones that don't want children are exceptions. The garden wars are a thing and the children are the soldiers.

But only Node expects her children to win the war, while TCO and Mabel led Grimm to acquire Guignol, to consume him after I guess and get almost unlimited power to Change. It would be useful in Garden wars.
Kuti wants a children because it can be used as an avatar for her father or mother.
Mary Sue and Jabberwock are scheming something too, but there is not much information. It is unlikely that their scheme was finished when Mary game Grimm her ring, important item for Grimm to wake up (if him waking up was not an illusion masterfully created to deceive).
That's all I guess.

A mirror of someone is not their opposite. If someone says a person is a "mirror image" of another person, they don't mean they are their negative (that would be more commonly referred to as a shadow), they mean the two people look exactly alike. This is where a lot of frustration in this discussion is coming from. Your understanding of the English language isn't the greatest which leads to weird interpretations of text a native speaker would never arrive at.

Do you know Through the Looking-Glass? Where everything is reversed and doesn't make sense? Being reversed or mirror image can have many meanings. Like if you write 01 on the paper and show it to a mirror, you will get 10, which is a complete opposite! But the numbers are same! GOD and DOG! Though Mabel is not a part of that story, in reality she was Alice's neighbor that was opposite of Alice, and in the game she is more likely reversed Alice, unless you believe Mabel that she is a substitute for Alice? Which makes even less sense.

Like your obsession with Cheshire being Alice based partly on the line "seeing the dream of dear Alice". That doesn't mean she is seeing the dream Alice is seeing. She is seeing "the dream of dear Alice", or the ideal of Alice, or her ideal Alice even since she goes on to elaborate that Alice is still Alice regardless of her imperfections. Combined with her dialogue just prior to her boss fight where she exposits her own past as Alice's cat and states how eager she is to meet Alice, she clearly is not Alice in any way, shape, or form past, present, or future.

Who other than Alice knows names of Kitty and Snowdrop? Her cat Dinah? Unlikely.

 

[Deleted member 4771842]

1. Idk tbh. Lewis Caroll being a pedophile irl is a bit of a pop-culture myth, but it seems pretty likely he is one in Black Souls if we take the Alice memories for granted. Grimm being rapey/murdery can be safely chalked up to Mary Sue's creation of Grimm and the awfulness of smashing 8 or more souls together into a regular person. Maybe Lewis is the base person, and all the authors hate him b/c he's a pedo. Who knows!

I believe Carroll was pure pedophile, not the naughty one, since he wasn't caught doing something suspicious. He loved Alice Liddell as if her father and a bit more. Yet nothing but Mary's shenanigans can explain his violent and lustful nature. Perhaps it's okay to become mad when you are sharing body with other 8 people? But...

2. TCO made Grimm obsessed with finding Alice. It's part of his very fucked up idea of love and the whole breeding thing they have going on. Is that Lewis Caroll? Probably not. I don't think Grimm is actually, canonically evil.

Grimm/Carroll is losing control only one time in the game, in a place where Alice's clothes were conveniently placed. It feels like as if Grimm/Carroll is limited by a script that Outer Ones are written for him. Grimm/Carroll can't stop looking for Alice, even ending G didn't stop him.

 

[Deleted member 4771842]

It seems the Dead Red hood game is still up for debate on when it occurs timeline wise, will it be before BS1? After Red Riding Woods, after BS1 but before BS2, or post BS2. But a few evidence in DLC 3 suggests it might occur post BS2. On the developer Ci EN it is stated that the game may come with a short "game" of some sort where Grimm and RRH live in one house together (either post BS2 end H, or end G). That game is separate from the DRH (dead red hood) game (so the timeline for the game is still a mystery). Another hint is after dueling Lindamea in DLC3, he shows interest in Red Hood and even states that he intends to rebuild the Black trial. Black trial is the organization Red Hood joins in DRH in order to "atone" for either her sins or for Grimm or both (I only MTL'd the Ci EN). Interestingly enough on the characters introduced so far that are in the black trial, LORD Hein and Miranda/Merphylla are not in it. So this suggests that either this game may take place after BS1 before BS2, or post BS2 (miranda wants to be corpse eating miranda/vagrant, LORD hein wants to be a train conductor).

So with that in mind, if DRH is set after BS2 then it may be set in the short time before RRH becomes bedridden/ close to death (to twist the knife even further), so the setting may be Grimm escapes wonderland/winterbell and returns to reality. Grimm spends a short amount of time with RRH living together, some shenanigans happens and RRH needs to join Black trial in Agartha (DRH game setting). DRH ends, RRH reunities with Grimm, RRH's lifespan is close to ending. Cue Heartbreak end CG. So the game would be one "final" send off for RRH till she possibly/hopefully gets revived in BS3.

One interesting part about the demonic princess game (based on Ci EN 2022 post) is that they will be the heroines of that game (allied with protagonist which will be another male [most likely not GRIMM]). It will be a hunting like game wherein you can build and craft weapons based on monster drops (kind of like monster hunter but turn based probably).

I can add only one thing:

 

[Deleted member 4771842]

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[Silent boy]

...annoying, like a morning wood...

 

[Deleted member 4771842]

...annoying, like a morning wood...

I don't like the idea of being associated with your morning wood... it's gay...

 

[shiki-six]

Perfect one

 

[Deleted member 4771842]

I wanted to write a brief chronological sequence about what happened before BS1, in the process of BS1 and BS2 but... I have found strange coincidence.
Black Souls 1. Alice-01 called MC as lord Grimm

I didn't find anyone in BS1 who would call Grimm as lord.
Black souls 2. White Queen Node called MC lord Grimm

I didn't find anyone else in BS2 who would call him lord Grimm. Prickett/TCO calls him just Grimm.

*sigh*

 

[Tachanka0203]

I have decided i will replay the entire game instead of using a full save. Lord have mercy on me and my sanity for all the hours i will put into the game

 

[sammo905]

I have decided i will replay the entire game instead of using a full save. Lord have mercy on me and my sanity for all the hours i will put into the game

that is the correct choice

 

[Tachanka0203]

When you try and save everyone from Jub jub on first run and see a pile of bones:

 

[Deleted member 4771842]

 

[Kar En Tuk]

Hey lads and ladies, Been a long time since I last played the game, Does anyone know where Knight's Ring location is ?
Thanks.