- Thread starter Ryahn
- Start date
- Nov 24, 2018
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Yeah, it's fun to discuss the game here, even if I'm getting kinda frustrated by Common Guy's theories lmao (sorry dude haha). At least you know everyone here enjoys the game one way or another.
>take a break for a week
>thread has grown nearly a dozen pages
...not that I'm in any position to say anything about this, but - ye gods.
Speaking of lore autism: did anyone already bring up Lovecraft's Crawling Ones?
Most people in this thread just assume that TCO = Nyarlathotep one-on-one and leave it at that. Which isn't necessarily wrong - but there's some stuff about the Lovecraftian Crawling Ones that lines up really well.
I mean, the Lovecraftian Crawling Ones? That's what happens when worms and maggots eat the corpse of a sorceror. The residual unnatural energies in the corpse will contaminate the critters, and then they will become a hivemind shaped by what's left of the sorceror's mind and memories.
Now look at TCO. Suppose TCO is a messy hivemind that became Alice (sort of) in much the same way as that a Lovecraftian Crawling One becomes a messy reflection of the sorceror whose corpse it ate.
Of course TCO is an Outer One instead of a mere maggot swarm. But if you picture TCO as a hiveminded swarm of eldritch horrors that works much like a maggot swarm Crawling One, then the comparison still holds up pretty well. Not to mention that what we see of TCO during the backroute and the H ending certainly looks a lot more like a swarm than a singular entity.
Then there's Prickett. During one of the bear stories in Winterbell, Node matter-of-factly states that Prickett used to be 'part of' TCO. That part would also work best if TCO is a hiveminded swarm. Each entity is a node in the network, and is thus both its own thing and part of the collective. Most of these nodes/entities are subsumed into the collective, and are thus little more than a distorted reflection of Alice. Prickett is then simply a node/entity that managed to disentangle itself and go her own way.
...but then, what about the TCO = Nyarlathotep stuff?
I'll admit that there's solid arguments in favour of that one, too. TCO originally being a trickster (as per Mabel), and the monsters that Alice can turn into if you choose to kill her at 0 SEN. The part about having a black void for a face is another hint.
But the two don't have to be mutually exclusive, though. Toro happily merges and conflates major characters (Lorina Liddell and the Queen of Hearts; the White Rabbit and the White Queen, and also with Nodens; Sherlock Holmes, Jack the Ripper and prince Leopold) - so he's probably not above merging different Lovecraftian things as well.
EDIT: speaking of the 'has a black void for a face'-thing - the same is true for the mental ward patients... What does that say about them? Could they be minor fragments of TCO? Or are they previously normal people who are slowly being absorbed into TCO?
>thread has grown nearly a dozen pages
...not that I'm in any position to say anything about this, but - ye gods.
Speaking of lore autism: did anyone already bring up Lovecraft's Crawling Ones?
Most people in this thread just assume that TCO = Nyarlathotep one-on-one and leave it at that. Which isn't necessarily wrong - but there's some stuff about the Lovecraftian Crawling Ones that lines up really well.
I mean, the Lovecraftian Crawling Ones? That's what happens when worms and maggots eat the corpse of a sorceror. The residual unnatural energies in the corpse will contaminate the critters, and then they will become a hivemind shaped by what's left of the sorceror's mind and memories.
Now look at TCO. Suppose TCO is a messy hivemind that became Alice (sort of) in much the same way as that a Lovecraftian Crawling One becomes a messy reflection of the sorceror whose corpse it ate.
Of course TCO is an Outer One instead of a mere maggot swarm. But if you picture TCO as a hiveminded swarm of eldritch horrors that works much like a maggot swarm Crawling One, then the comparison still holds up pretty well. Not to mention that what we see of TCO during the backroute and the H ending certainly looks a lot more like a swarm than a singular entity.
Then there's Prickett. During one of the bear stories in Winterbell, Node matter-of-factly states that Prickett used to be 'part of' TCO. That part would also work best if TCO is a hiveminded swarm. Each entity is a node in the network, and is thus both its own thing and part of the collective. Most of these nodes/entities are subsumed into the collective, and are thus little more than a distorted reflection of Alice. Prickett is then simply a node/entity that managed to disentangle itself and go her own way.
...but then, what about the TCO = Nyarlathotep stuff?
I'll admit that there's solid arguments in favour of that one, too. TCO originally being a trickster (as per Mabel), and the monsters that Alice can turn into if you choose to kill her at 0 SEN. The part about having a black void for a face is another hint.
But the two don't have to be mutually exclusive, though. Toro happily merges and conflates major characters (Lorina Liddell and the Queen of Hearts; the White Rabbit and the White Queen, and also with Nodens; Sherlock Holmes, Jack the Ripper and prince Leopold) - so he's probably not above merging different Lovecraftian things as well.
EDIT: speaking of the 'has a black void for a face'-thing - the same is true for the mental ward patients... What does that say about them? Could they be minor fragments of TCO? Or are they previously normal people who are slowly being absorbed into TCO?
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- Oct 24, 2022
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I'm not sure but I think there's one point in the game where TCO is actually called out as Nyarlathothep
Also the patients is (kinda?) explained in DLC3, Star Fluid and whatever it is that Florence was trying to cure that I can't remember rn.
- Oct 24, 2022
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did you try to kill her or did you mess up with Shisha? Or are you at 0 SEN?
If it's any of those, the first 2 are only fixed if you start a new game+ and the latter by increasing your SEN (like having seggs)
If it's any of those, the first 2 are only fixed if you start a new game+ and the latter by increasing your SEN (like having seggs)
Oh, i'm at sen 0. Thanks. So when sen 0 is like that for most characters? According to the instructions, sen must be 0 or below to meet the redhood, so maybe I have to accept this. Thank you again.
- Oct 24, 2022
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Yes, however if you're trying to meet Red Hood and haven't done so already I'm afraid that's not gonna happen anymore on that playthrough.
I can see the furball running around Dodo so I assume you've already progressed far into the game (past Progress 1), Red Hood can only be met right at the beginning of the game after you kill the Head Hunting Rabbit (the first boss), she'll jump out of the mirror past him (at Progress 1, anything above that won't trigger it).
But if you're at SEN >0 she'll look like a Wolf and you'll never see her again wether you defeat her, lose or run away from it. Unless you did already meet her and I misunderstood.
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- Dec 24, 2019
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Some scenes + characters (might/mightnotbe endings) will change if you have 0 Sen but normal NPCs will just act weirdly , speaking gibberish.
I recommend if it's your first run, try the game out without guide, in NG+, f95 has really great guide for you to use for 100% so don't worry about missing stuffs.
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Also I'm concerned about why exactly if your SEN is low, almost every character (even simple NPC's) saying gibberish, same as
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Possible that Toro also knows about that stuff. Thats more the rabbithole of how much you want to dig/assume the author/creator intentions. Toro of course takes tons of creative libertys. Comes with the package of mixing Dark Souls, Fairy Tales & Eldritch Horror.
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Your schizo idea about TCO = Red Hood made my little brain trembles, you know. Given how little I know and still remember about the lore.
Such, It's uncanny how Red Hood resembles Alice, how her background provides a reasonable explanation for her inhuman persona despite being originally human, how she survived the reset while Miranda, another human, couldn't, and how she seems to be a convenient girl to propel the plot forward and prevent the plans of whoever hopes to trap Grimm. Many making she looks sus.
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One last thing I want to say before I become somewhat schizo.
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I hope it's not too much potato english.
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Perhaps she meant Red Hood, which is really more important than Jub-Jub.
Good luck reading all of that :3
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Red hood survived reaching wonderland because Node helped her. Node helped her because Node is quietly undermining crawling one while pretending to serve it.
Red hood is a failure because she turned her tragedy into a victory. She was supposed to die at the end of Red riding woods but she turned it around.
When Mary asks "what gets your body going", she's asking what her motivation is. Nothing to do with Red's limited life span since she hadn't yet revealed that fact.
Mad god = Mary Sue, Mother = Elizabeth. She's simply stating she has no loyalty to anyone other than Grimm, her original creator.
BTW word of god says the Red hood in G end is really truly Red hood, not anyone pretending to be her or anything. Red riding woods Red hood and BS 1 Red hood are 100% the same Red hood (she recognizes heinrich and he recognizes her, same move set as well) and most likely the same as bs 2 (moveset again, hotel scene, and travel assist from Node. Also Red hood is the only companion not present during any ending in bs 1, she gtfo before things went south even in her character ending and she will give up her fairy tale willingly, instead of fighting, under the right conditions and in D end she isn't present at all in the cutscene even if you summon her in battle).
- Aug 27, 2022
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