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Deleted member 4771842

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speed is 2100 something not enough? also I found using royal tea is needed for buff and I could progress 3-4 shadows but for some reason still died after that

edit: what else is needed besides royal tea for buff?
In order to kill Old King, you need to:
1) evade his first attack, otherwise he will one shot after a few turns.
2) acquire King Club (upgraded club +10) or Rabbit Watches. You could stun one of the clones using Break(or gun break) and second one by a simple attack of a King Club, or a much safer choice is to use Rabbit Watches to reset cool down of your Break.
 
Dec 24, 2023
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In order to kill Old King, you need to:
1) evade his first attack, otherwise he will one shot after a few turns.
2) acquire King Club (upgraded club +10) or Rabbit Watches. You could stun one of the clones using Break(or gun break) and second one by a simple attack of a King Club, or a much safer choice is to use Rabbit Watches to reset cool down of your Break.
I use rabbit watches and gun break, I need to get my evade 100 then because even with royal tea I died (some video said you need to have buffs otherwise you die and I thought maybe royal tea alone is not enough)
 

Deleted member 4771842

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It's just a term of affection. Like a person calling their dog their child or a couple using pet names for each other like darling.
I can't help but laugh at that logic, despite it being real. I just don't understand something so silly I guess.

Wonderland the garden and Wonderland the fantasy location are two different things. Wonderland the garden covers everything but the things I mentioned before. Gardens are worlds created by outer ones and crawling one's garden is called Wonderland and BS 2 mostly takes place in crawling one's garden.
So you say that after Mary's collapse, TCO expanded Wonderland?

Queensland used to be Winterbell but it seems wonderland absorbed it or maybe it was recreated to accommodate Node, and Prickett remodeled it after she inherited the role of Red Queen. I guess that would make the dlc 3 area something like a pocket of time preserved to serve as the prison for GG.
Queensland is a Winterbell v2 in the present time I guess, same as Prickett being Red Queen V2. While original Winterbell doesn't exist in the present, it exists in the distant past, which... affects present? I mean, Guignol returned Grimm to the Dream despite being in the past. Weird? Unless Alice-02D is Guignol too.
 
Dec 24, 2023
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Common Guy ressurrectionist ring which prevents insta kill or critical strikes wouldnt work right? if I get %30 from items and use evade that gives %70 it should still work

I need to spam that and royal tea through the whole fight?

edit: found out I have 3 empty ring +3's and got my evade&magic evade to 110% but still cant evade the attacks from old king for some reason, who designed this boss damn
 
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Dec 24, 2023
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after like 30 tries, 3 empty rings 90% evade and a bit of luck I could win against him. all you need is royal tea for buffs and rabbits clock to gun break ones with spellbook icon while evading his attacks that hit even when you have %110 evade so luck is a part of it from my experience lol
 

Phenir

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Sep 28, 2019
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speed is 2100 something not enough? also I found using royal tea is needed for buff and I could progress 3-4 shadows but for some reason still died after that

edit: what else is needed besides royal tea for buff?
You probably died because not using the dodge skill.
after like 30 tries, 3 empty rings 90% evade and a bit of luck I could win against him. all you need is royal tea for buffs and rabbits clock to gun break ones with spellbook icon while evading his attacks that hit even when you have %110 evade so luck is a part of it from my experience lol
Why would you use 3 empty rings and not just 1 + dodge skill? Those other 2 rings could have been black rabbit rings. And in any case, it's not evasion stat itself that protects you from the instant death, it's the dodge buff which protects you from most status effects. Gun break is kind of bad since it has a cooldown while regular break has no cooldown. The extra damage every turn isn't worth the stats you lose from not using a shield.
Also some attacks just ignore evasion because they are set as guaranteed to hit. No luck about it
Finally, royal tea is kind of bad since it uses an action for something you could do without using an action by just using buff items. Speaking of which, if you are only using royal tea for buffs, that means you aren't using mead for madness. Madness is a 2x attack and magic buff. Also not using phalanx which is another 1.5x attack.
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Let's not look to korean animation for lore about a japanese game. Not to mention jack the ripper is a real person that has nothing to do with red hood anyway.
 

Deleted member 4771842

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You probably died because not using the dodge skill.

Why would you use 3 empty rings and not just 1 + dodge skill? Those other 2 rings could have been black rabbit rings. And in any case, it's not evasion stat itself that protects you from the instant death, it's the dodge buff which protects you from most status effects. Gun break is kind of bad since it has a cooldown while regular break has no cooldown. The extra damage every turn isn't worth the stats you lose from not using a shield.
Also some attacks just ignore evasion because they are set as guaranteed to hit. No luck about it
Finally, royal tea is kind of bad since it uses an action for something you could do without using an action by just using buff items. Speaking of which, if you are only using royal tea for buffs, that means you aren't using mead for madness. Madness is a 2x attack and magic buff. Also not using phalanx which is another 1.5x attack.

Let's not look to korean animation for lore about a japanese game. Not to mention jack the ripper is a real person that has nothing to do with red hood anyway.
Relax, I didn't post that for lore purposes. Just shared my mental state I guess? Since I can see references to Black Souls where I shouldn't have been.
For example, can you imagine a world where Red Hood lost when someone tried to change her? Well, someone did that for you.
 

ItIsAPartTimeJob

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Oct 24, 2018
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Yo, quick lore question here. Based on the Sen 0 memories we need for Ending G, who technically get ahold of Caroll first? Was it Mary Sue or TCO?. Based on the memory on The Beach of Grief, Caroll seems to have got the attention of Mary Sue after meeting with old Alice Lidell. But the memory in The Endless Tea Party suggests Alice (TCO) brought him into Wonderland after someone causing mayhem onto reality (presumably Mary Sue?), but if that was the case I don't think Mary would just let Caroll be snatch away by another Outer Ones. It is also a possibility that the person Alice (TCO) brought was not Caroll, but I find that somewhat improbable as I don't think the TCO would just grab anyone off the streets.
 

Deleted member 4771842

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Mar 24, 2022
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Yo, quick lore question here. Based on the Sen 0 memories we need for Ending G, who technically get ahold of Caroll first? Was it Mary Sue or TCO?. Based on the memory on The Beach of Grief, Caroll seems to have got the attention of Mary Sue after meeting with old Alice Lidell. But the memory in The Endless Tea Party suggests Alice (TCO) brought him into Wonderland after someone causing mayhem onto reality (presumably Mary Sue?), but if that was the case I don't think Mary would just let Caroll be snatch away by another Outer Ones. It is also a possibility that the person Alice (TCO) brought was not Caroll, but I find that somewhat improbable as I don't think the TCO would just grab anyone off the streets.
As far as I know, Carroll was summoned by Mary Sue, since he heard a high pitched voice and familiar "kihihihi~" after wishing to see little Alice Liddell, but TCO expected that and fought off Mary when Carroll was summoned, which explains rubbles and red sky that Carroll saw when he finally woke up. And then TCO bring him to the Wonderland, which he looks like built after eating Alice Hargreaves (Alice Liddell who got married).
Does it makes sense?
 

ItIsAPartTimeJob

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Oct 24, 2018
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As far as I know, Carroll was summoned by Mary Sue, since he heard a high pitched voice and familiar "kihihihi~" after wishing to see little Alice Liddell, but TCO expected that and fought off Mary when Carroll was summoned, which explains rubbles and red sky that Carroll saw when he finally woke up. And then TCO bring him to the Wonderland, which he looks like built after eating Alice Hargreaves (Alice Liddell who got married).
Does it makes sense?
Hmm, that's a fair possibility. Although, I'm not sure if TCO had eyes on Caroll from the start, maybe only after devouring Alice Hargreaves. I did a little digging and one of the theories I found was Mary Sue actually actually gotten ahold of Caroll the moment she came into contact with him and merge him with other authors to create Grimm which she then placed into the Lost Empire. Some time later, the Black Goat/Baphomet was summoned by Glinda which is why in the memory the sky rained blood and (what was presumably either eldritch creatures related to the Black Goat or Demonbeasts) roamed the streets. Under the chaos, TCO inflitrated Lost Empire and whisked away Grimm into Wonderland. Personally, I'm not fully satisfied with this theory as it does not seem explain everything.
 

Deleted member 4771842

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Although, I'm not sure if TCO had eyes on Caroll from the start, maybe only after devouring Alice Hargreaves.
At least that's what I think.

I did a little digging and one of the theories I found was Mary Sue actually actually gotten ahold of Caroll the moment she came into contact with him and merge him with other authors to create Grimm which she then placed into the Lost Empire.
Not quite. Remember the third movie from Queensland, about Tea Party. When Black Rabbit wished for Tea Party to end, he accidentally or intentionally prayed to Mary Sue, giving her power to break Wonderland and snatch Carroll with some fairy tales. Only after that it would be reasonable to assume that she transformed Carroll into Grimm. She erased his body and memory, because he resisted her "brainwashing" so to say, and created a body of an Outer One (or just took some undead? Not sure), where she combined eight different writers. She called that creation as Grimm.

Some time later, the Black Goat/Baphomet was summoned by Glinda which is why in the memory the sky rained blood and (what was presumably either eldritch creatures related to the Black Goat or Demonbeasts) roamed the streets. Under the chaos, TCO inflitrated Lost Empire and whisked away Grimm into Wonderland.
Unlikely. If you read some books from Chaos Dungeon, you'll understand that Black Goat of the Woods and the Thousand Young(Baphomet) was summoned when Mary Sue already had a grip on the Lost Empire, and presumably on Wonderland too. When Baphomet created Black Trial and tried to infiltrate Lost Empire, she was quickly stopped and captured by Mary Sue. I can't imagine it happening before she got a power from Black Rabbit's prayer.
 
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Omnom88

Member
Dec 26, 2021
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Yo, quick lore question here. Based on the Sen 0 memories we need for Ending G, who technically get ahold of Caroll first? Was it Mary Sue or TCO?. Based on the memory on The Beach of Grief, Caroll seems to have got the attention of Mary Sue after meeting with old Alice Lidell. But the memory in The Endless Tea Party suggests Alice (TCO) brought him into Wonderland after someone causing mayhem onto reality (presumably Mary Sue?), but if that was the case I don't think Mary would just let Caroll be snatch away by another Outer Ones. It is also a possibility that the person Alice (TCO) brought was not Caroll, but I find that somewhat improbable as I don't think the TCO would just grab anyone off the streets.
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Deleted member 4771842

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The overall assumption is Mary Sue & TCO worked together. Mary Sue made a entity with the "black soul" & TCO set up the stage to enact the "breeding eldritch super soldier children plan". As the cosmos is a lit powder barrel with a soon to be all out war starting between Outer Ones, Great Ones & Elder Gods viva their Garden Worlds.
I'd agree, but only if
1) TCO didn't snatch Carroll from Mary Sue when she summoned him. It looked like TCO fought with Mary Sue for Carroll.
2) Mary Sue didn't use an opportunity to snatch Carroll, when Black Rabbit prayed.
3) There was an evidence of their cooperation.


Also, I recommend you to read my reply as well. Maybe you can find inconsistencies there?
 
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Omnom88

Member
Dec 26, 2021
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I'd agree, but only if
1) TCO didn't snatch Carroll from Mary Sue when she summoned him. It looked like TCO fought with Mary Sue for Carroll.
2) Mary Sue didn't use an opportunity to snatch Carroll, when Black Rabbit prayed.
3) There was an evidence of their cooperation.


Also, I recommend you to read my reply as well. Maybe you can find inconsistencies there?
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Deleted member 4771842

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1 & 3) A few NPCs giving us insight into TCO before it went insane. Mary Sue & her family dynamic/connection. On top of Mary Sue`s extraordinary creation powers among the Outer Ones. Suggests that TCO(Bahpomets new husband) being her new "father" involved Mary Sue into his project/plan.
In one of the endings if we side with Mary Sue instead of Red. She talks about TCO being the new husband of her mother(Baphomet). Which makes him her new "father" & she talks in detail about his nature when interacting with TCO.
Since Mary Sue doesn't recognize Baphomet as her mother and Jabberwock doing all motherly work, taking care both of Mary and her sister, it doesn't seem that Mary Sue and TCO were close as well. Baphomet abandoned Mary, and was picked up by Jabberwock, who also got a full control over her. Otherwise, how do you expect Jabberwock freely influence Mary Sue?
Conclusion: TCO and Baphomet didn't care about Mary Sue and were not close to her.

2)We dont know the exact timeframe. But considering TCO went "insane" with love/obsession for Grimm. Mary Sue using the chance to take controle herself makes sense. From all accounts like Mabel saying:"TCO is a shadow of its former self".
Mary Sue took control over Wonderland when TCO was sane. Watch third movie in Queensland. TCO went insane non sooner than after Mary's intervention.

And I thought I was overthinking things...
 
4.80 star(s) 71 Votes