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Skeltom
Engaged Member
- Oct 9, 2017
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That doesn't sound like it will be addressing the previous update at all, it sounds more like he will be explaining what went into this new update. I get the feeling the dev is trying to just sweep it under the rug.
Smarmint
Well-Known Member
- Mar 23, 2019
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Maybe that is the best approach. I don't think any explanation the dev might have would really satisfy anyone, unless it is the he sustained a head injury, forgot his previous story, and just made some crazy unrelated story to stay in practice which should never have been leaked, but is feeling much better and will continue with what he has planned all along from the first update.
Skeltom
Engaged Member
- Oct 9, 2017
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We can hope. The update is a dark stain in its development and I think the only way to get back on track to to just scrap the (failed) experimental update and focus on what was an actual enjoyable experience, before it was butchered.
I assumed the "long and detailed information about the situation" would be the explanation, but seems it's not coming after all.
I agree with you (and the hundreds of others who chimed in) that scrapping that wild detour would be best. The game got popular fast because of the simple formula of Chpt 1 - a father and his cute daughters - let's get back to that
I'll also go so far as to say that even using an estranged niece was absolutely ok, but definitely went overboard in 0.2 then.
Smarmint
Well-Known Member
- Mar 23, 2019
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And I also liked the interaction with the school administrators and teachers. It was fun to try different approaches with the characters, that actually make a difference in their reactions, other than "interested" and "not-interested". This is much too rare in games here.
There was none of that in update 2. I actually think Betisis has a good game here, but he should focus on the home and school life, and if you have other stories, or add wrinkles and complications, have them branch from the main story, in a reasonable way. Take the audience where you want them to go, and they will follow.
Buried Desires was a little rough, as of update 1, but I think it has a lot of potential. I hope the dev continues with it. I think it could get a good amount of support, if he makes the story coherent and believable.
Something that crossed my mind the other day: if version 0.2 is not a dream due to a concussion, how far does update 0.1.5 (or whatever number the subplot with the twins had) still make sense? I no longer have it completely in my head but at the time of the plot, the MC would still have to be relatively new. But at the end of 0.2 he is life-threateningly injured (shot). Fortunately I don't have any experience with gunshot wounds, but i assume such a gunshot wound and the corresponding blood loss would have to knock him out for a relatively long time until he's halfway fit again (and he seems to have no problem boxing a guy who's harassing his students), unless Deus Ex Machina takes hold. With that in mind, please clarify if I'm missing something elementary, if I've discovered a massive hole in the plot, or if perhaps this was all just the prelude to replacing John Cena's evil twin with the actual protagonist we haven't seen yet?
Grankaiser
Newbie
- Jun 21, 2017
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Raziel_8
Forum Fanatic
- Dec 4, 2017
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I think the side story would be after 0.2, because there is no time where it would fit in 0.1 or 0.2, no time jumps or anything iirc.
Thats one thing why i really dislike side storys, which are not part of the main game, but are still canon, u often have no idea where they fit chronological...
- Sep 8, 2020
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I agree that's why I feel like this update is so out of place and disjointed. It wasn't a bad update content-wise, just maybe could have been told later in a proper sequence that makes more sense and is related to the story we have been presented till now.
El_Loco
Member
- Nov 15, 2019
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As far as I understand, Betisis could not withstand such a huge stream of criticism after an ambiguous update and now does not know how to fix it correctly, so he almost does not communicate. He used to be more active. It's sad.
For me, I really liked the game and where it was going at the start I hope he can get it back to where it was and I also hope he doesn't lose hope and give up as I am sure many ppl would love to see the story continue. Hey, we all make mistakes or make what some or many would call bad judgement calls but even so, I liked the first version and would love to see that continue as for the other things that got brought in so be it erase it leave it I don't mind as long as the story continues at least from the point of the original story for me anyway. Keep going Dev I am sure many ppl want you to. Why arent my emojis working I have to type what my emoji is that suxs so I put Heart eyes before complaining about not being able to put Emojis.
I can understand that it hurts when an ambitious project gets as much criticism as this one did, and I also understand that not everyone can handle it so well. However, some people have expressed criticism here quite objectively and Betisis should try to collect this objectively presented criticism and look where he has gone astray with his story. Without wanting to sound arrogant I think that I would definitely belong to these people and would also have a rescue approach for this update. So Betisis my advice for now: look at what the constructive people have written and try to work with it, I'm also happy to answer questions via private message if the problem really lies with the 0.2 issue solution.
Mograx
Active Member
- Oct 16, 2019
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Most of the critique I saw was level headed and relatively calmly presented. Hope dev realizes the vast majority aren't angry and out for blood lol. Mostly we're just confused at the new direction is all.
There will be childish, mean-spirited feed back of course, but this doesn't represent the majority of us who are trying to be as objective as possible while voicing valid concerns and criticisms. This comes from an acknowledgement of a great foundational concept: If the game didn't hook us to begin with, we wouldn't care to bother with the feedback.
There will be childish, mean-spirited feed back of course, but this doesn't represent the majority of us who are trying to be as objective as possible while voicing valid concerns and criticisms. This comes from an acknowledgement of a great foundational concept: If the game didn't hook us to begin with, we wouldn't care to bother with the feedback.
I think that the problem would be easy to solve, at least from a narrative point of view, and was suggested by me some time ago: The VN gets two general paths, that of the good teacher and that of the bad teacher.
Up to the gas station you can actually leave 0.2 as it is and from here on insert decisions. That the niece has a broken relationship with her uncle is even insofar okay, here you would have the opportunity between the two to cement the relationship. I see further conflict potential between the MC and the family of the dead girl, who still holds him responsible for not noticing and preventing the suicidal tendencies. Another point of conflict could be the yellow press, which makes life difficult for the protagonist and his family.
I would throw out the motel completely, at least for the current time. Possibly it could be used somehow at a later time, but not at this time and not to that extent, I see too much conflict with the already established timeline of events from the side story for that, at least as it stands now.
Alternatively to the motel, the protagonist could drop his niece off with her family and promise to visit them in a timely manner to patch up the relationship.
I think this could solve the roughest problems with the current version and offers a compromise for the people who liked and disliked the escalation.
What do you guys think, would you say this approach would solve the problem and solve a good compromise? The downside to this is that it would deliver extra work for Betisis. At least until he knows which situation he prefers to work with and then decides which way to go.
Betisis, if you are reading this and the previous assumption should really correspond to the current situation, then you are welcome to use my approach as I said and I am also available for questions via private message as I said.
Up to the gas station you can actually leave 0.2 as it is and from here on insert decisions. That the niece has a broken relationship with her uncle is even insofar okay, here you would have the opportunity between the two to cement the relationship. I see further conflict potential between the MC and the family of the dead girl, who still holds him responsible for not noticing and preventing the suicidal tendencies. Another point of conflict could be the yellow press, which makes life difficult for the protagonist and his family.
I would throw out the motel completely, at least for the current time. Possibly it could be used somehow at a later time, but not at this time and not to that extent, I see too much conflict with the already established timeline of events from the side story for that, at least as it stands now.
Alternatively to the motel, the protagonist could drop his niece off with her family and promise to visit them in a timely manner to patch up the relationship.
I think this could solve the roughest problems with the current version and offers a compromise for the people who liked and disliked the escalation.
What do you guys think, would you say this approach would solve the problem and solve a good compromise? The downside to this is that it would deliver extra work for Betisis. At least until he knows which situation he prefers to work with and then decides which way to go.
Betisis, if you are reading this and the previous assumption should really correspond to the current situation, then you are welcome to use my approach as I said and I am also available for questions via private message as I said.
Look everyone, I don't take pride in saying this but all your posts seem pointless. The only reason I'm saying this is cause most of you have written such detailed posts that must have taken some time and effort, and I'd hate to see it cause no change. But seriously, they are truly written well.
I'm part of the discord server (like a bunch of others) and have asked Betisis several times for some interaction and there is absolutely nothing from his side. Never seen a worse dev, where I keep thinking he means well and is trying to do his best but still several reasons make me wanna think he's scamming this entire project for as long as he can. We'll see what happens soon enough.
Anyhow, on the server he mentioned he'd give a statement two weeks ago about his thoughts of our feedback of v0.2. I've asked him he could at least confirm if he's still giving a statement and there's been no response after pinging him directly. Dude's online all the time too on discord, but no response ever. Hence, I thought I'd keep y'all aware that it's likely nothing will change with your detailed well written posts with the way Betisis is acting.
Real shame honestly
I'm part of the discord server (like a bunch of others) and have asked Betisis several times for some interaction and there is absolutely nothing from his side. Never seen a worse dev, where I keep thinking he means well and is trying to do his best but still several reasons make me wanna think he's scamming this entire project for as long as he can. We'll see what happens soon enough.
Anyhow, on the server he mentioned he'd give a statement two weeks ago about his thoughts of our feedback of v0.2. I've asked him he could at least confirm if he's still giving a statement and there's been no response after pinging him directly. Dude's online all the time too on discord, but no response ever. Hence, I thought I'd keep y'all aware that it's likely nothing will change with your detailed well written posts with the way Betisis is acting.
Real shame honestly
Raziel_8
Forum Fanatic
- Dec 4, 2017
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Sure it would be nice for players to have two paths to follow and in general a good idea, but it is far too early for splitting the main path.
For one, the progression from a good teacher (like in 0.1) to a bad one needs time, if u want to make that believable.
And it will add a lot of work for the dev, so the updates will be shorter. Begining to split the main path so early also would add a high risk of too much branching, which will stall the development, i really wouldn't split the main path until the game reaches halfway point or the last third.
Agreed, thought u would still need to rewrite the MC's dialogue/monologue/thoughts, cause it doesn't really fit with 0.1
Sure if u cut the whole motel, add choice at the gas station, rewrite some of the MC's sudden character changes and add a different end with the niece...thats a lot of work thought.
And to be honest, i don't think he will change much, if anything.
I don't want sound like a prick, but the dev should know and have planed the story before he actually makes the game (at least a storyboard, which outlines all important points/events in the story).
So far 0.1 and 0.2 show basically two different games.
If the dev is unsure which one he wants to tell, i would question if he has planed the story at all, or if he wants to make up the story as the game goes on, which isn't a promising approach if u want to have a coherent story.
- Sep 8, 2020
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I got the distinct impression that English was not his native language and therefore he may not be as comfortable engaging with people either in Discord or especially here on F95 to not only justify his vision, but provide an in-depth response to the story choices he opted to go with. Went from a family/school focused theme setting in the demo, to weirdly somewhat abstract and uncharacteristic MC choices in the last update, especially considering the juxtaposition of said demo, and subsequent updates including the twins' side story content.
I still find each of the individual characters compelling and would just have focused on the MC actually teaching for a bit, interacting with his new students, faculty temptations and his family at home before going off on some weird tangent looking to 'rescue' his niece. As such, I'll still give it another update or 2 before ultimately deciding if I still want to keep supporting on SS.
Related to Betsis seeing the criticism here, I would like to clarify that my own criticism was purely based on confusion of how the plot got from .1 to .2 where it felt like the plot kinda just... vanished in between. I didn't intend to attack their skill or their person even remotely, I simply wanted to point out things could definitely be improved.
I really hope that is what came across with my comment and review. I am happy to update my review pending future updates if things change. I'm not the type to leave negative reviews hanging when I could otherwise say a good word to someone about their work.
I really hope that is what came across with my comment and review. I am happy to update my review pending future updates if things change. I'm not the type to leave negative reviews hanging when I could otherwise say a good word to someone about their work.