PhazeUFO

Well-Known Member
Sep 28, 2021
1,373
1,327
A lot to quote.
I have to agree with your post for a few reasons. Usually devs will add (things, areas, systems, characters, etc.) that are empty or incomplete to be used as a placeholder until they can complete it. It is usually just like that during the development of the game and finished when the game is done, with early access that changes things. With a model like this where you need constant updates of your incomplete product, those will be there for the players who will have to wait while the devs work to add on to and finish them. Big empty houses are there because they haven't finished them by putting in items and people yet. It's avoidable sure, but then you get the issue with big empty areas which are there for much of the same reason. They can also be there because of what you said about riding or piloting something. Some players like GTA for the car driving, so you will have areas that are created mainly for that purpose.

I would also not want fans to contribute for the legal issues, but also because it screws with the dev's vision of the game. The point at which CoC went downhill and why CoC2 and TiTS are lacking is because they started allowing the high paying fans to dictate what got added, which ended up being furry characters and lewds over most else and the two following games lacked the beginning that CoC had.

Bugs are the bane of programming it seems. Updating can them and fixing them can cause others so it will just be a thing that will happen at some point regardless of the level of playtesting. Even worse when it is something that only happens to a small number of users so you will only be able to fix them if they complain to you.
 
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gachimaster

New Member
Feb 25, 2020
8
9
Oh, I can answer that. This game got posted here when they were under 100 subscribers, pre-empted all official links in google searches, and resulted in the devs immediately receiving a wave of accusations from forum members to the effect of stealing assets from other games. We made a godawful first impression on them.

Fascinating. Okay, so this warrants investigation then. How, specifically, were the quests broken for you? If I can get a decent description of the breakage I have a chance of figuring out how to reproduce it, which I can then report to the devs with testable steps so they can fix it.

For reference, here's an assortment of quest related reports that have already made their way to the devs regarding the new version, and will likely be patched in the next update:
  • Footsteps of the Dragon appears to only be completed if you use the female draconid skin, not the male one.
  • The Left Eye of Anubis can wrong up in the wrong section of the inventory, preventing quest turn-in.
  • Some quest NPCs are not properly marked on the map for Blood Script.
  • The jar for the void form during Tales of the Void was reported as non-interactible by a player.

Right, I see what you were complaining about now. The headers in the Controls menu. Considering DSS's interaction with the world is primarily visual, "Camera" was the closest existing control header in the Controls menu. There's a decent chance that there'll eventually be an "Abilities" header or the like that it would go under instead.

And yeah, it would appear the game's tutorial vanished at some point. That one's my bad.

I'd say it was an ultimatum. You gave a very specific, extremely short timeline beyond which you implied people on this forum should write off the game as an exploitative work to be ignored.

Also, what critical bugs? A configuration issue that takes a quick search to learn about? A few purely visual physics bugs? An apparently brand new bug with quests that is difficult to reproduce and has yet to be tracked down properly?

Right, so. I shouldn't have actually given so little context on this because that is the default assumption players have on the subject. Especially considering the devs on this forum who attempted the jump and then backtracked. These devs actually tested things and checked the process before deciding, and only announced the change once they decided it was a worthwhile change. Lemme copy this out of the Patreon post:

Development Update

So enough with the mystery box, what exactly have we been working on that's taken so much of our time? Well a few people have already guessed; we're in the process of moving to Unreal Engine 5. Initially we avoided announcing this as we decided to not make the move if it increased the development time of the project. What we've discovered is that we're actually able to reduce development time due to efficiencies in our pipeline thanks to Nanite.

View attachment 1889855

In the image above you can see approximately the same development time applied on both the left and right. Whilst the pillars on the right are still a little work-in-progress, we're able to build a far more richly detailed world in the same amount of time. We're also able to drastically reduce the texture budget, lowering the impact of the game on GPUs with less VRAM.

View attachment 1889857

The fidelity we've been able to achieve is honestly incredible. We're so impressed with the updated engine that we couldn't justify continuing solely in UE4. Despite our initial cynicism, UE5 has won us over. That isn't to say it's without problems, which is why we're running the versions in parallel until we're at Alpha, but the risks are far outweighed by the benefits.

View attachment 1889858

We've been rescaling our world map to take advantage of the new optimisation features of UE5, resulting in a playable area nine times the size [edit: I was tired and put four times, it's much larger than that!] of our current world map (not just the current playable area, the whole map). Wait, I hear you scream, it'll be an unplayable walking simulator! Fear not. In the UE5 build we now have working prototypes of sailing and riding, as well as an early version of transformation into an exotic form.

View attachment 1889868

So, what's the difference and how soon can you expect to get your hands on the UE5 version? I think the above image speaks for itself. We haven't yet finalised our small props kit, so the UE5 version is missing the crates, barrels, ropes, and other details that help finalise a scene, yet it's already far more detailed than the UE4 version.

In terms of becoming playable we've made some significant progress in that direction, enough that the roadmap isn't particularly accurate, and we're gradually approaching what we consider an Alpha build of CI. Once we have all major systems working in the UE5 build, we'll push it live and keep the UE4 as legacy.

We hope you're as excited as we are for the incredible boost towards true AAA quality that we've managed to make with the upgrade to the game engine. I want to thank every one of you so much for your amazing support; the game is now almost unrecognisable from where it began and it's entirely thanks to your help.
So from what im getting, they are going to increase the wandering through giant empty desert/maze 9 times?
They can't get right even basic throwing shit at the wall and see what sticks.
If i wanted to play a walking simulator, id rather play Death Stranding or Pathologic.

Damn landscape artist scams people by pretending that he makes porn.
Good thing i never paid for any of this bullshit lmao.
For anyone who did, remember my prediction that he will probably run away with your money and will use this trash as a way to get work in official industry as a 3d modeler.
 

TheInternetIsForThis

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2020
1,264
2,964
I have to agree with your post for a few reasons. Usually devs will add (things, areas, systems, characters, etc.) that are empty or incomplete to be used as a placeholder until they can complete it. It is usually just like that during the development of the game and finished when the game is done, with early access that changes things. With a model like this where you need constant updates of your incomplete product, those will be there for the players who will have to wait while the devs work to add on to and finish them. Big empty houses are there because they haven't finished them by putting in items and people yet. It's avoidable sure, but then you get the issue with big empty areas which are there for much of the same reason. They can also be there because of what you said about riding or piloting something. Some players like GTA for the car driving, so you will have areas that are created mainly for that purpose.

I would also not want fans to contribute for the legal issues, but also because it screws with the dev's vision of the game. The point at which CoC went downhill and why CoC2 and TiTS are lacking is because they started allowing the high paying fans to dictate what got added, which ended up being furry characters and lewds over most else and the two following games lacked the beginning that CoC had.

Bugs are the bane of programming it seems. Updating can them and fixing them can cause others so it will just be a thing that will happen at some point regardless of the level of playtesting. Even worse when it is something that only happens to a small number of users so you will only be able to fix them if they complain to you.
You can't please everyone, and an unfinished project just makes the problem worse because many of the things you can do to make players happy right now will cause significantly more work down the line.
I got only a single question for this game- the ass size and look ever gonna be able to be adjusted? Cause man- when the females have a distinct pose in some scenes, 'dem booties take on that masculine shape that instantly shoot down my enthusiasm. Like, at least make it possible to pick different shapes if not make it adjustable per will.
People joke about the game having a secret ass slider in the discord, and they're half right. For whatever reason, at the moment the Bodyfat [Arms] slider will adjust ass size for female characters at the same time it adjusts arm size.
So from what im getting, they are going to increase the wandering through giant empty desert/maze 9 times?
They can't get right even basic throwing shit at the wall and see what sticks.
If i wanted to play a walking simulator, id rather play Death Stranding or Pathologic.
I would recommend you actually read what you're responding to. The devs even called out your exact response in the Patreon post on the subject, and mentioned that the update (when it comes) will arrive with sailing, riding (of the non-lewd kind) and at least one exotic form as faster means of transit.

Not to mention that the world is empty at the moment not because they want an empty map, but because they have things they want to fill that space with but need mechanics they've yet to implement.
Damn landscape artist scams people by pretending that he makes porn.
Did you know this latest steam update had nearly a hundred new sex animations in it? It's easy to miss because they're very, very cleanly integrated into the DSS UI. Every DSS sex position has a dozen or two different animations per gender combination, varying in specifics by movement, position details, and speed.
Good thing i never paid for any of this bullshit lmao.
For anyone who did, remember my prediction that he will probably run away with your money and will use this trash as a way to get work in official industry as a 3d modeler.
So you're saying that the five devs on this game are planning to pocket the money and run, and use the game as a resume in order to...reapply to the jobs they quit from in order to make this game?
 

Vakul

Member
Apr 10, 2022
152
170
I see some things that does not match with one another.
First of all - almost all you say about them contains words like 'planning', 'working on', 'going to'. That is things that doesnt exists yet. I'm pretty sure, you can write a few pages with times new roman 12pt size with things you were planning, wanting, going to at some point of your life - but they never happened.
Modern game industry is full of that promises - they are forgotten that same moment player pays for them. Majority if those fuckers want us to pay them for nothing. Pre-alpha, over9000 microupdates, years in early access - aa-a-a-nd - bam - mission failed. Thank you for your money, we'll come back later to fuck you again, oh, we mean - to give you a new amazing experience. So - no, I am not negative. That's reality. Who's at fault - is another topic, but it is what it is.
Next - you say, you're a dev. But before that you're trying to defend changing engine midway. After that I just must to ask you - what is your field of expertise? Because from my coding experience, and some UE4 experience - when you trying to change and rebuild basement after making a roof - things always get fucked.

I mean, it wasn't just the false accusations of stolen assets. It was also burying the official (paid) links in searches with third party, free links when the project was just getting started. I do agree these devs are extreme about it, but this forum is in no way free of guilt on what could legitimately be described as a minor feud.
I am not sure I understand that part. Was assets stolen or not?


Will definitely need to poke at that one. While void form isn't required to proceed with the quests, it is a major ingame reward, as is the repeatable sex scene. If I can find a way to trigger the bug consistently it'll make it much easier to report and get fixed.
I can come up with one solution - exchange save files right before the void spirit dialog maybe.

I didn't know you had access to this game's source, to give accurate time estimates of work involved. More seriously though, adding a new header to the ingame menu is likely fairly simple but also a total non-priority compared to other things, like tracking down and fixing quest bugs.
I had access to UE4 tutorials. You have too. They are free. There is no problem when all there is - a misplaced setting header.
It became a problem only when it is a sign of "don't care" thing. There is no more meaning in it beside that.

You don't need the void form, nor the sex scene. The urn does contain the khopesh you need to progress, however. I did just run through the quest myself, and it worked normally. I have a save from just before - I'll poke at it to see what might be causing the issue because it does seem to be very conditional.
Well, still no urn=no progress).

Sure, if all you consider is the column itself. But they're not showing off the columns, they're showing off five detailed and notably different capstones made in the same timeframe as a single one for the UE4 example. I'd understand if you were complaining about the difference in detail work, since the column and capstone on the left do visually show a lot of finalization-level detail work not present in the five columns on the right. But this is not a simple copy and paste smoke and mirrors example.
Coloumn itself is not the case. It would looks fine in the "our current progress" type of article. But it is not fine as esxuse of changing engine midway. Too many consequenses.
I won't be uncharitable and assume you're complaining about the lack of prop details on their visual demo of a new, more detailed prop kit. In which case, is it safer to assume you're complaining about the lack of NPCs and loot? Those are both things the developers have been working on implementing the underlying systems for, and the game has already seen a lot of progress on those fronts. The developers do clearly have plans, including an entire magic system that we have yet to see heads or tails of.
That buildings have absolutely no connection with engine version, nor it have any versiou exclusive content. And while model changing itself is good to achieve diversity and avoid having streets full of clone houses, it cant be a reason to change engine.
But that's not all! Did you know, that with right approach new model can be made in a way to fit size and collision map of old model, so another devs don't have to rearrange old markers and scripts. But that is long forgoten thing from ancient times.
And there is even more! I can came up with few ideas to explain (without breaking story and lore) why there is old and ugly buildings in one area - and new and shiny houses(new models added after few patches) in other areas. Surely their writers can do that. If. They. Wanted. To. that is.
Anyway, that meansm better building models have nothing to do with changing engine.

It's worth remembering that the more filler content they implement now, the more work they make for themselves later when they want to put in the actual, planned content once underlying systems are built.
This is almost completely wrong.
1)NPC and quest markers can be reassigned to new coordinates or new landmarks. It may be time consuming, but can't be critical.
2) The have to populate current world at least for crash testing. I can remember some interviews from bethesda(or it was clowns from crytek?) coders, when they SUDDENLY discovered, that their vast locations cant be populated and filled with enough content coz it will crash the engine. Why don't test it while it is still relatively small?
3) Filling current wold give them precious experience - how much effort it takes to make for example, a temple full of NPC and some quests. After that they may discover, current world is more than enough. IMHO, it is indeed big enough for making super cool game. Adequately filling the big map you posted will be impossible task. Its overwhelming even for well-know teams with hundreds of people.
Though there is a way to avoid that selfdestroying - partial release. One region after another. Like old day Add-ons. And after seeing those megamap I hope they will do just that.

And there it is - the asset accusation. Is only one game developer in the world allowed to use real-world trees? Is that what people think these days?
I'm sure I was clear about what problem is. But I'll explain again - Vast. Empty. World. 2.5 pumas and 5 crocodiles. Few houses without any NPC. Lore says they have ongoing orgy with constant flow of new participants, some ongoing religious conflicts, few different temples - but no life on the map. No feeling of "this can be real". No immersion. That is bad, not the shape of trees.

You can assume, yes. It's very easy to assume. Honestly I've found the world to be a much more interesting place when I don't automatically assume the worst.
So now you're making assumptions based on internal team information we know nothing about? The devs actually do have a very consistent list of planned features and mechanics that show up both on their roadmaps and in polls. We're currently arguing about a game prototype that's missing vast portions of those.
Yep. I see things and think of them from perspective of what I know. Substitution of concepts not going to work on me, sorry.
I am judging what I can see. Whats planned, whats on roadmap, what is wanted to exist - is irrelevant today. I can remind you of Anthem by biowhore. They too has plans, roadmaps, ideas and "years of evolution and support". But their actions and game itself made it quite clear - they can't do anything.
Thats what I'm trying to explain. What matters - is what decisions is done. We can't say what devs are doing right now. But we can see effects of their actions and decisions.

If a bug never gets reported to developers, it won't get fixed unless they encounter it themselves. And you seem to be very proficient at running into unusual edge cases that most players never encounter.
Of course. But that is only if not to read steam discussions for example. And given the vulnerable nature of devs, I suppose it would be wrong to report bugs from filthy-pirate-stolen-copy, no?

The clothing system doesn't have racial flags because (apparently with the exception of the void form), all clothing seems to be planned to work with all races. Male forms are comparatively new and the devs are still working on adapting clothing types for them. Again, judging a work in progress system as though it's final is always going to give you a negative result.
Seems pretty odd, given the fact that they all have different asses - no tail/thin tail/thick tail. Well, I guess they have internal track of that.

At this point I'm assuming you're complaining about the missing sex scenes for the felian concubines, which is a valid complaint and one I've personally made before. Early on the developers had a habit of flagging planned content with inaccessible dialogue options, and they stopped doing it due to the number of complaints they got over it. The existing ones have mostly stuck around, however.
No, I mean situation with 9 different dialog options with inaccesible lower options due to their "slipping out". It was noted on steam too.
And even without it - there is [unspoken?] rule what says roughly "if you have more than 4-6 dialog options, you fucked up narration flow. If you need over 4-6 dialog options, or some options need to have long sentences, you fucked up the story."
Gamedesign is not two months old, there is plenty of important rules.

You're gonna need to run that one by me again - copypaste from what?
From one another obviously. Skyrim and oblivion have dozens of almost identical dungeons. Here we have less, but they are easy to get lost. And there will be more with identical parts.
Actually almost every skyrim dungeon is made with idea to not get lost. And many of them have shortcuts so players don't have to go all the way back.
Or are you referring to the large number of rooms that are just a single square chamber with a statue in the center? If it's that, there are plans for those. They're shrines to high-paying patrons, and will be customized (within a menu the devs have provided) to include decorations, statues, and NPCs + sex scenes.
No, those rooms is actually a good idea, They are icreasing immersive effect. When you see them, you think this is maybe some burial sites for nobles or priests who died during construction or something like that.

No, they did not say that. They tested the upgraded engine against their own production pipeline and found that they got better results with less work, and made the deliberate decision to begin developing the game in the new engine. They even explicitly state in the bit I copied that they will continue working on both versions alongside each other until the UE5 version is properly ready, rather than just throwing away all the work they've done thus far.
That's very much going to slow development, yes. But it shows a dedication to the players that you just don't see from the developers who opt to throw everything away and try again in a new engine.
Sadly, it shows either their poor planning or community level of "ready to pay for promises".

How many teams have done such transition effectively? And I'm saying about well-known teams with hundreds of employees and solid backup from publishers.
That is colossal amount of work. And here we are talking about indie game. Double the team and cut salary in half? Make devs to work for same salary, but twice tihe workload? Nope. That is not how it works. You dont have to believe me, and just try it for yourself, if you want.

Honestly, I'd hate to live in the world you're building for yourself. You seem to prefer to assume the worst, and that makes things bland, boring, and downright depressing.
Techically speaking - no. If you assume the worst, than better things happens allmost all the time. But I think I understand what are you trying to say. And - no, sorry, substitution of concepts not going to work on me. All of that plans, ideas and roadmaps always face the reality. All that promises are good on paper, but when deadline comes - thing are changing dramatically.

As a dev myself, if I saw this part of your post and it was in relation to one of my projects, I'd immediately discard everything you'd said.
Really? So if you have a hole in your pants, so your phone is going to fall trough, you're going to ignore it just because I was not polite enough when pointed that out?
Well, it is up to you, how you live your life, really.

This is not meant to offend, but community members offering to plan content and provide assets, unsolicited, are a poison pill just waiting to destroy a project from the inside. And I'm not even talking about relative skill level or quality of work - that's irrelevant.
If the devs took you up on your offer they'd be at significant legal risk of losing the entire project (or major chunks of it) in the event you decided you didn't want your content in the game anymore. That can be avoided to an extent with licensing rights (such as Fenoxo and crew do with CoC and TiTS) or getting you to sign a full legal contract. But It's very much a red flag that is easier avoided than handled.
Well, yeah, that was bad choise of words from me. I mean - if there is a community, there is point in listening to them. For example here is our superimportant discussion of game maybe-problems. Some of the dev read it - and see the part when I said about releasing game in parts. One region, then another, like add-ons. And they might think, this is a good idea. But I certainly don't have any rights to that idea.
Or maybe we decide to fantasize about why centaurs wear masks and how their females looks like. And there might be some good suggestions there, but it's not like it will by copied bit by bit, just giving the idea or two.
Or maybe someone can mention some asset creator, who sells his works in UE marketplace.
The story or quest is not so easy, yes.
 

TheInternetIsForThis

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2020
1,264
2,964
I see some things that does not match with one another.
First of all - almost all you say about them contains words like 'planning', 'working on', 'going to'. That is things that doesnt exists yet. I'm pretty sure, you can write a few pages with times new roman 12pt size with things you were planning, wanting, going to at some point of your life - but they never happened.
Modern game industry is full of that promises - they are forgotten that same moment player pays for them. Majority if those fuckers want us to pay them for nothing. Pre-alpha, over9000 microupdates, years in early access - aa-a-a-nd - bam - mission failed. Thank you for your money, we'll come back later to fuck you again, oh, we mean - to give you a new amazing experience. So - no, I am not negative. That's reality. Who's at fault - is another topic, but it is what it is.
Next - you say, you're a dev. But before that you're trying to defend changing engine midway. After that I just must to ask you - what is your field of expertise? Because from my coding experience, and some UE4 experience - when you trying to change and rebuild basement after making a roof - things always get fucked.
And completely unrelated projects are relevant to this one how? It's easy to make assumptions and spurious correlations, especially if you don't pay attention to the dev history of the game you're talking about.
I am not sure I understand that part. Was assets stolen or not?
They were not stolen.
I can come up with one solution - exchange save files right before the void spirit dialog maybe.

Well, still no urn=no progress).
I'll attach the save I had to test it to this post. They go into %localappdata%\Carnal_Instinct\Saved\SaveGames, and will need to be renamed in order to replace a save you've already made.
I had access to UE4 tutorials. You have too. They are free. There is no problem when all there is - a misplaced setting header.
It became a problem only when it is a sign of "don't care" thing. There is no more meaning in it beside that.
Again, you're acting under the assumption that an "It works and that's good enough for now" approach, which is the appropriate approach to take for a project at this stage in development, means that they're going to intentionally neglect the project as a whole.
Coloumn itself is not the case. It would looks fine in the "our current progress" type of article. But it is not fine as esxuse of changing engine midway. Too many consequenses.

That buildings have absolutely no connection with engine version, nor it have any versiou exclusive content. And while model changing itself is good to achieve diversity and avoid having streets full of clone houses, it cant be a reason to change engine.
But that's not all! Did you know, that with right approach new model can be made in a way to fit size and collision map of old model, so another devs don't have to rearrange old markers and scripts. But that is long forgoten thing from ancient times.
And there is even more! I can came up with few ideas to explain (without breaking story and lore) why there is old and ugly buildings in one area - and new and shiny houses(new models added after few patches) in other areas. Surely their writers can do that. If. They. Wanted. To. that is.
Anyway, that meansm better building models have nothing to do with changing engine.

This is almost completely wrong.
1)NPC and quest markers can be reassigned to new coordinates or new landmarks. It may be time consuming, but can't be critical.
2) The have to populate current world at least for crash testing. I can remember some interviews from bethesda(or it was clowns from crytek?) coders, when they SUDDENLY discovered, that their vast locations cant be populated and filled with enough content coz it will crash the engine. Why don't test it while it is still relatively small?
3) Filling current wold give them precious experience - how much effort it takes to make for example, a temple full of NPC and some quests. After that they may discover, current world is more than enough. IMHO, it is indeed big enough for making super cool game. Adequately filling the big map you posted will be impossible task. Its overwhelming even for well-know teams with hundreds of people.
Though there is a way to avoid that selfdestroying - partial release. One region after another. Like old day Add-ons. And after seeing those megamap I hope they will do just that.
At this point I'm not even going to respond to this part of the conversation. You clearly have your own ideas of how this game is built and will function. Some of them have a reasonable base in unreal engine, but at the same time it's largely built upon the assumption that you know how the devs went about building the game in said engine. There is no way to have this argument properly without access to black-box work, and operating on assumptions will just revolve endlessly.
I'm sure I was clear about what problem is. But I'll explain again - Vast. Empty. World. 2.5 pumas and 5 crocodiles. Few houses without any NPC. Lore says they have ongoing orgy with constant flow of new participants, some ongoing religious conflicts, few different temples - but no life on the map. No feeling of "this can be real". No immersion. That is bad, not the shape of trees.
Just to be clear - you're aware this game isn't just early access, but is pre alpha, right? Pre alpha, aka "first playable" aka the'yre still assembling the basic pieces the content will rely on. They aren't even at a point in development where they should be developing content at all. The only reason the game isn't just a big box of testing objects is because they're getting funding from public subscribers rather than keeping the project internal and working off of a big initial investment or prior profits.

If you want a good example of what pre-alpha normally looks like, check out the start of this video:
Yep. I see things and think of them from perspective of what I know. Substitution of concepts not going to work on me, sorry.
I am judging what I can see. Whats planned, whats on roadmap, what is wanted to exist - is irrelevant today. I can remind you of Anthem by biowhore. They too has plans, roadmaps, ideas and "years of evolution and support". But their actions and game itself made it quite clear - they can't do anything.
Unfortunate that you prefer such a pessimistic outlook on things.
Thats what I'm trying to explain. What matters - is what decisions is done. We can't say what devs are doing right now. But we can see effects of their actions and decisions.
I've tried a variety of versions of this game starting back in January 2021. And I can tell you right now that this game has seen incredible progress over the last 18 months. Clearly that progress isn't enough to satisfy you, but it's also why I keep telling you that judging things in a vacuum does nobody any favors.
Of course. But that is only if not to read steam discussions for example. And given the vulnerable nature of devs, I suppose it would be wrong to report bugs from filthy-pirate-stolen-copy, no?
The discord is actually free to access, and so long as you don't make a big deal about piracy (or mention this forum at all, for that matter), they don't bother looking whether or not you have the game on Steam. Makes it pretty easy to report bugs from the Steam versions (which is what we get here) on their Discord.
Seems pretty odd, given the fact that they all have different asses - no tail/thin tail/thick tail. Well, I guess they have internal track of that.
No more odd than the accommodations outfits in Skyrim need for male, female, khajiit, and argonian bodies. All it really takes is an outfit system that picks which model to load based on the currently relevant body type.
No, I mean situation with 9 different dialog options with inaccesible lower options due to their "slipping out". It was noted on steam too.
And even without it - there is [unspoken?] rule what says roughly "if you have more than 4-6 dialog options, you fucked up narration flow. If you need over 4-6 dialog options, or some options need to have long sentences, you fucked up the story."
Gamedesign is not two months old, there is plenty of important rules.
Honestly at this point I'm going to skip this one because going into aspects of proper game design is a bottomless rabbit hole with ever-evolving answers. Many of those answers are contextual. I will agree that too much dialogue is a bad thing, but the vast majority of dialogue options in this game are within the 4-6 rule you seem so fond of.
From one another obviously. Skyrim and oblivion have dozens of almost identical dungeons. Here we have less, but they are easy to get lost. And there will be more with identical parts.
Actually almost every skyrim dungeon is made with idea to not get lost. And many of them have shortcuts so players don't have to go all the way back.
You've lost me, then. This game has four dungeons at the moment that I'm aware of. I've personally run through three of them (I have yet to do the one for the newer quest, where you go for ingredients), and they're all incredibly different floorplans and layouts even if they're using the same asset kit. Not only that, but all three have quick-escape options around the end. Two of those lead back to the entry area of the dungeon while the third is a fast travel point.
Sadly, it shows either their poor planning or community level of "ready to pay for promises".
I am starting to suspect you don't quite understand the purpose of crowdfunding. Paying for promises is literally the entire point.
How many teams have done such transition effectively? And I'm saying about well-known teams with hundreds of employees and solid backup from publishers.
That is colossal amount of work. And here we are talking about indie game. Double the team and cut salary in half? Make devs to work for same salary, but twice tihe workload? Nope. That is not how it works. You dont have to believe me, and just try it for yourself, if you want.
I actually have done it myself. Both in terms of converting a game from one engine to another, and in terms of building an engine from scratch.
Techically speaking - no. If you assume the worst, than better things happens allmost all the time. But I think I understand what are you trying to say. And - no, sorry, substitution of concepts not going to work on me. All of that plans, ideas and roadmaps always face the reality. All that promises are good on paper, but when deadline comes - thing are changing dramatically.
The deadlines the developers themselves are setting? The ones they regularly meet? The ones they are willing to publicly refund people over if they're unsatisfied with the game and its progress? Those deadlines?
Really? So if you have a hole in your pants, so your phone is going to fall trough, you're going to ignore it just because I was not polite enough when pointed that out?
Well, it is up to you, how you live your life, really.
Speaking of substitution of concepts. This is entirely irrelevant and not even remotely close to what I said.
Well, yeah, that was bad choise of words from me. I mean - if there is a community, there is point in listening to them. For example here is our superimportant discussion of game maybe-problems. Some of the dev read it - and see the part when I said about releasing game in parts. One region, then another, like add-ons. And they might think, this is a good idea. But I certainly don't have any rights to that idea.
As far as I know, only one of the devs regularly checks this thread anymore. Specifically, it would be echo. I've talked to him before, and the rest of the team actively discourages him from even looking here anymore because this forum is so overwhelmingly negative and ready to jump on people for the tiniest things.
Or maybe we decide to fantasize about why centaurs wear masks and how their females looks like. And there might be some good suggestions there, but it's not like it will by copied bit by bit, just giving the idea or two.
I mean, this would be preferable. It's much more fun to help people who are having trouble and theorize on the lore of a game than it is to argue over what-ifs and assumptions.
 

TheInternetIsForThis

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2020
1,264
2,964
Is it perhaps time to buy a new PC so I can play smut games on ultra graphics?
If that's the only reason you're considering a new PC, I don't really think it would be worthwhile. There aren't that many AO games with high-end requirements, and the list of ones actually worth the requirements is much, much smaller.
 

RhapsodicHotShot

Active Member
Oct 25, 2019
721
705
The point at which CoC went downhill and why CoC2 and TiTS are lacking is because they started allowing the high paying fans to dictate what got added, which ended up being furry characters and lewds over most else and the two following games lacked the beginning that CoC had.
Also the fact that every other new NPC was a futa dom with the same exact personality as the previous one.
 
Sep 3, 2017
25
76
I been reading the messages between the two of you. And there are things I want to call out on one of your points Internet. The pre alpha angle u pushing only show side of that issue of a pre alpha. I tell a example of a pre alpha doing well but the full game turning awful in the end. And That game was Hello Neighbor. Hell the sequel has bad example of pre alpha. The point is that the devs do need test out more features before they move out of pre alpha because If the game doesn't turn out well in the end. People who didn't have faith in this project would have been proven right and the person who you talking to will be proven right as well.
 

TheInternetIsForThis

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2020
1,264
2,964
I been reading the messages between the two of you. And there are things I want to call out on one of your points Internet. The pre alpha angle u pushing only show side of that issue of a pre alpha. I tell a example of a pre alpha doing well but the full game turning awful in the end. And That game was Hello Neighbor. Hell the sequel has bad example of pre alpha. The point is that the devs do need test out more features before they move out of pre alpha because If the game doesn't turn out well in the end. People who didn't have faith in this project would have been proven right and the person who you talking to will be proven right as well.
I don't trust the devs blindly, but I also have been speaking with the experience of having actually watched the game progress as it gets developed. The game is nowhere near complete, but I have seen active improvement on it over time. Heck, they bill their current roadmap as "the road to alpha" because they acknowledge that a lot of work is still needed before they can even call it an alpha project.

I don't argue that the game is currently good, nor do I argue that the game should stay as it is. I do argue against judging it in a vacuum, against judging it as though it is complete, and against judging it using assumptions based on other completely unrelated developers.

It's also why I actually do push the pre-alpha angle. There are a variety of "alpha" games on this forum that don't progress, don't change, or even manage to actively get worse over time. In contrast to those, this one actually does change. It's just very easy to attract pessimistic people who see a 3D game in unreal attached to a patreon and with minimal apparent content and immediately assume the worst.

Edit: Actually, consider the latest steam changelog, which covers a four month period. It contains two new character forms, one new quest, two new outfits pieces in six colors each, another two in four options each, and another that is standalone. It adds an entirely new sex system complete with new hotkey and nearly a hundred different sex animations organized by position, speed, and gender combination. It contains three new character skins (as subtypes for existing character forms), new NPC clothing, two new dungeons for existing quests, a whole swath of additions to the map for enemy zones, quests, and more. It also includes a few new NPCs and other minor goodies.

In terms of fixes it includes a wide variety of changes, from missing item icons to quest fixes to inventory issues. Missing item rewards, broken equipment combinations, missing tooltips and popups. It's hard to summarize the fixes because it's a few dozen things over a huge variety of issues. Even the things that qualify as changes rather than just fixes are little details that are important in the long run, such as the "carnal vision" portion of the dynamic sex system being flipped to a toggle rather than requiring players to hold the key like Patreon versions had.

This is all info that is super easy to acquire and show that the developers are actually considering the game and how it gets played, but that you'd never see if all you do is try the game and then assume the devs are milking the audience because you ran into bugs, didn't like the combat balancing, or felt the game was too rough around the edges.

Just a few notable quality of life changes from said changelog:
  • Added Main/Side quest to the World Map descriptions
  • Added Enemy Zone indicators on the compass
  • Added healing effect to the player bed, resting now restores 100% HP
  • Added [UI] tooltips to indicate how to unlock Forms & Cosmetics
  • Fixed locked doors not stating which key is required to open them
  • Changed the respawn timer on enemies to be double the current time
  • Changed "Carnal Vision" to be toggled, not held
And that's just things that I'm personally celebrating. The game actually does change and evolve over time, and those changes are often incremental improvements that make it better piece by piece.
 
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Azzurro

New Member
Jul 19, 2020
7
0
Are the quests bugged? All my quest items show in the general inventory, not in the for quest items. I can't give those items to others and finish the quest.
 

spiceky

Newbie
Jul 22, 2019
25
14
Are the quests bugged? All my quest items show in the general inventory, not in the for quest items. I can't give those items to others and finish the quest.
As far as I know, quests are bugged if you load a save from an older version of the game. At least that's what I've experienced, and no doubt that starting a new game after every patch is a real pain in the ass.
 

Lkon30

Newbie
Aug 16, 2017
28
10
Need help I can not find the Enchanted Draquine Manhood? I been by the anbuis statue and it is not there or even on the outer area of the statue. I also have completed the milk & honey quest.
 

TheInternetIsForThis

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2020
1,264
2,964
Need help I can not find the Enchanted Draquine Manhood? I been by the anbuis statue and it is not there or even on the outer area of the statue. I also have completed the milk & honey quest.
Enchanted Draquine Manhood is one of two items that are currently limited to Patreon builds only.
 

Vakul

Member
Apr 10, 2022
152
170
And completely unrelated projects are relevant to this one how? It's easy to make assumptions and spurious correlations, especially if you don't pay attention to the dev history of the game you're talking about.
Usually [hope not this time] scums are doing their shit similar way. So there is some flags, that can (and SHOULD) alert bakers.
But that flags is just flags - project can become a good game even with some flags present.
They were not stolen.
Then there is no problem, no?

I'll attach the save I had to test it to this post. They go into %localappdata%\Carnal_Instinct\Saved\SaveGames, and will need to be renamed in order to replace a save you've already made.
Yeah, thanks, urn is there. BUT! There is no body for new quest. Not in you save, not in my. I've tried to delete save folder and start a new game - there is still no body. Only lizardman with dialog that leads to nothing.
So I'm fed up with this shit till next update.

At this point I'm not even going to respond to this part of the conversation. You clearly have your own ideas of how this game is built and will function. Some of them have a reasonable base in unreal engine, but at the same time it's largely built upon the assumption that you know how the devs went about building the game in said engine. There is no way to have this argument properly without access to black-box work, and operating on assumptions will just revolve endlessly.
Well, that is true. Without being among them I can't tell how exactly they work. I can tell, what instruments I've seen in engine. And what happened in some othr projects after some flags I mentioned, was rised.


Just to be clear - you're aware this game isn't just early access, but is pre alpha, right? Pre alpha, aka "first playable" aka the'yre still assembling the basic pieces the content will rely on. They aren't even at a point in development where they should be developing content at all. The only reason the game isn't just a big box of testing objects is because they're getting funding from public subscribers rather than keeping the project internal and working off of a big initial investment or prior profits.

If you want a good example of what pre-alpha normally looks like, check out the start of this video:
This is indeed, a briliant example. There is only a few of that kind.
First time I saw Subnautica 1 or 2 years before release, and played it after release of 1.0. Absolutely amazing experience.
And full story of that game can tell us a dramatic tale of how to came up with good idea, then make a brilliant game of that idea, becoming #1 in a new type of survival games. And then how to fuck it all up just with a few of stupid decisions made by total idiots, thus becoming literally another nobody doing dull multyplayer shit. Serves them damn right.
And during develompent of below zero more than a few of those flags was raised. Before the actual fuckup.
So - no, until I see final product, I cant say "This indeed is a good game."

I've tried a variety of versions of this game starting back in January 2021. And I can tell you right now that this game has seen incredible progress over the last 18 months. Clearly that progress isn't enough to satisfy you, but it's also why I keep telling you that judging things in a vacuum does nobody any favors.
Well that means you have more experience regarding this project.
But I can draw conclusions based only on my own experiense, so they are obviously different.
And if some member of dev teams join our conversation - he has even more knowledge about project, and his assumptions may be cardinally different from ours.

The discord is actually free to access, and so long as you don't make a big deal about piracy (or mention this forum at all, for that matter), they don't bother looking whether or not you have the game on Steam. Makes it pretty easy to report bugs from the Steam versions (which is what we get here) on their Discord.
That may be a good way to report some problems, yes.

Honestly at this point I'm going to skip this one because going into aspects of proper game design is a bottomless rabbit hole with ever-evolving answers. Many of those answers are contextual. I will agree that too much dialogue is a bad thing, but the vast majority of dialogue options in this game are within the 4-6 rule you seem so fond of.
Rule was not made by me. And yes, majotiry of dialogs is indeed within 4-6, but those massive >6 variant still require some editing.

You've lost me, then. This game has four dungeons at the moment that I'm aware of. I've personally run through three of them (I have yet to do the one for the newer quest, where you go for ingredients), and they're all incredibly different floorplans and layouts even if they're using the same asset kit. Not only that, but all three have quick-escape options around the end. Two of those lead back to the entry area of the dungeon while the third is a fast travel point.
But there will be more. And when you clearing 10th dungeon without map it starts to annoy you. I hope they thought about that.

I am starting to suspect you don't quite understand the purpose of crowdfunding. Paying for promises is literally the entire point.
Nope. Paying for product that will be released. Yes, some time later, but released anyway. Paying for promises - it is another thread nearby - about cloud meadow. And its bakers is already suspecting something.

I actually have done it myself. Both in terms of converting a game from one engine to another, and in terms of building an engine from scratch.
Well I don't have experience like that. In all cases where I participated, serious changes in the basic algorithms of almost ready product led to a lot of troubles.

The deadlines the developers themselves are setting? The ones they regularly meet? The ones they are willing to publicly refund people over if they're unsatisfied with the game and its progress? Those deadlines?
For crowdfunding projects like patreon ones deadlines are not "real" deadlines with time and date. For them it is more like "virtual" moments when updates become small enough for bakers to start asking questions.

Speaking of substitution of concepts. This is entirely irrelevant and not even remotely close to what I said.
Is it? Well, your response was to 3 paragraphs of text, maybe we were looking at different paragraphs.

As far as I know, only one of the devs regularly checks this thread anymore. Specifically, it would be echo. I've talked to him before, and the rest of the team actively discourages him from even looking here anymore because this forum is so overwhelmingly negative and ready to jump on people for the tiniest things.
Well, he has my respect then. I don't know where they learned their skills, or where you learned yours, but one of my fist lesson was about not being a tender daisy when criticism begins. Because regardless of the greatness of the ideas in my head, world dont give a fuck about them and will criticize them anyway. And it depends only on me whether I can benefit from this criticism or run away crying and crawl under the blanket.

So to summarize my wordflow and to clear possibe misunderstandings - some of their ideas are suspicious from my point of view. And some are very suspious. But despite that, from what I've seen or heard, this project it among most promising ones in adult gaming, with a good chance to turn this genre upside down. And I won't jump happily shouting "TOLD YA!" if it fails.
 
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TheInternetIsForThis

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2020
1,264
2,964
Then there is no problem, no?
It's not a problem that the developers were immediately attacked with false accusations that they stole assets? I think their poor opinion of this forum is justified on that front alone.
Yeah, thanks, urn is there. BUT! There is no body for new quest. Not in you save, not in my. I've tried to delete save folder and start a new game - there is still no body. Only lizardman with dialog that leads to nothing.
So I'm fed up with this shit till next update.
That's a quest I've never gotten around to trying, so I can't speak for it yet.
So - no, until I see final product, I cant say "This indeed is a good game."

Well that means you have more experience regarding this project.
But I can draw conclusions based only on my own experiense, so they are obviously different.
And if some member of dev teams join our conversation - he has even more knowledge about project, and his assumptions may be cardinally different from ours.
I don't even say this is a good game. But I very much argue against assumption-laden posts directly claiming or heavily implying that personal experience with other projects and developers means this project is covered in red flags, and the developers' own words are apparently inherently suspect and shouldn't be trusted.

I know you didn't explicitly say the latter portion, but you've clearly demonstrated outright refusal to trust anything I've quoted from them unless it could be used to show a fault with their work.
But there will be more. And when you clearing 10th dungeon without map it starts to annoy you. I hope they thought about that.
Speaking of substitution, you've changed from claiming the game is using copypaste dungeons to implying it may use them in the future.

A minimap would be useful, but considering the devs' tendency to build in 3D and stack paths, it might wind up more confusing than if you had no map at all. It's something they'd need to carefully consider as they implement upgraded UI.
Nope. Paying for product that will be released. Yes, some time later, but released anyway. Paying for promises - it is another thread nearby - about cloud meadow. And its bakers is already suspecting something.
That's weird. I wonder what you call it when someone claims they'll do something, like give you a product they made, in the future? Is that possibly a promise? One that gets paid for in advance?

That is a very, very nasty comparison you're making, seeing as cloud meadow is both irrelevant to this project and actively developed by an artist who destroyed the project's predecessor and drove its developer out of game development.
For crowdfunding projects like patreon ones deadlines are not "real" deadlines with time and date. For them it is more like "virtual" moments when updates become small enough for bakers to start asking questions.
I'm not sure what you're saying here. Are you trying to say that a release schedule of two updates per month, one update per month, and one update per quarter (those are the three release schedules this game operates on) are not real deadlines with a time and date? I didn't know the end of a month wasn't a real date. Today I learned.
Is it? Well, your response was to 3 paragraphs of text, maybe we were looking at different paragraphs.

Well, he has my respect then. I don't know where they learned their skills, or where you learned yours, but one of my fist lesson was about not being a tender daisy when criticism begins. Because regardless of the greatness of the ideas in my head, world dont give a fuck about them and will criticize them anyway. And it depends only on me whether I can benefit from this criticism or run away crying under the blanket.

So to summarize my wordflow and to clear possibe misunderstandings - some of their ideas are suspicious from my point of view. And some are very suspious. But despite that, from what I've seen or heard, this project it among most promising ones in adult gaming. And I won't jump happily shouting "TOLD YA!" if it fails.
And this in particular is why I won't be continuing the discussion any further. Specifically, because only one of us appears to actually be attempting to hold a discussion. At this point it's becoming a waste of my time, of your time, and of the time of everyone else who attempts to read this thread.
 
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