VN Ren'Py Abandoned Chains of Pleasure [Ch. 4] [ShuttleCockGames]

[Baby Cowboy]

Well why would it here be any different than anywhere else? Hatetrains from so quickly nowadays, that i wonder if there is a hidden stash of them i dont know about. And on top of all that, it becomes quite obvious that a lot of people think that because it is on the Internet stuff works different.

Normal behaviour goes out the window very quickly, and with normal behaviour i mean, not acting like every Teenager (yes we've all been there) in their Asshole phase. And it also becomes quite obvious that a lot of people cant Grasp how Patreon and the like are ment to work in an Environment like this. Because the matter of the fact is, that a Dev creating a game and decides to publish it on forums like this, with a Link to their Patreon page. Is nothing more than a Street Musician that puts a hat in front of them, an WE are the Strangers walking by, listening to that music/see that dance/whatever . If we like it, we can if we want to, put some money in the hat to support the musician. Just like we can go to Patreon and put some money in their hat there.

But i've never seen a guy arguing with a Street musician in a pedestrian area about "YO SHITHEAD, I JUST PUT 5$ IN YOUR HAT, NOW GO AND FUCKING PLAY METALLICA FOR ME YOU USELESS PEAce OF FUCKING TRASH". In fact i've never seen anyone arguing with a Street performer as to what and how they should perform their act. People either watch/listen to it and stop, or they walk past it if it doesnt interest them. And when said street performer plays a Song/whatever you dont like, then you are free to move on.

However what happens in places like this forum and elsewhere is, that the second someone put 5$ in that hat, they think they have the right to demand stuff. Like what song is played, or how its played. And on top of that, even those who did not put money in the hat, feel like that they through (i dont fucking know, the right of ze internetz or whatever) also have the right to demand something.

Dont get me wrong, everyone has the right to have an opinion and also to express it. But many people are way beyond that already, it is no longer enough to express the dislike of the current way the project is going. It has to be personal, degrading, insulting, hurtful otherwise it is not enough.

And sure i've seen all the arguments as to why people think that putting money in a hat gives you any rights.
They then say "yea but the dev says he does it fulltime and make a living from it, thats why i have decided to give him money for 3 months even tho there was no progress, but now im fucking pissed and i want x". Honestly? Your own fault, period.
I've never in my entire life meet anyone who told me that "hey there is this stranger i met, he told me a little story and now im paying him 5$ a month because he said he will tell me another one soon, sure i have not seen him in 3 months, but im paying him anyway". Wanna know why not? Because that would sound a bit crazy, wouldnt it?

But it is, if we exclude the Devs who have absuded Patreon, almost every drama i've ever seen in here in a nutshell.

wow this was a good read

 

[Leo90]

What!!! no way.. it's abandoned? but why
it was such a good game though

 

[MATAFAKA]

is he dead? cuz of corona?
he was attending Chinese new year , right?

 

[Skads]

is he dead? cuz of corona?
he was attending Chinese new year , right?

Not so much dead as deleted his patreon.

 

[Nadiel]

WHAT AREAS: The concept was really original. the atmosphere of the story was enjoyable. the fascinating story. Can another designer take inspiration from it and continue the adventure?

 

[caldess]

wow this was a good read

Thanks.. after re-reading it... im a bit embarrassed by some wording the the typos.. but oh well

 

[caldess]

Deleting your patreon page without warning is even worse form.. atleast keep the page up and state the reason. instead of thanks for the money i'm out without explaining. Right now the patreons themself could only speculate what happend. we may never know now.

Now i can understand the disappointment about it. If we ignore for a moment that the Dev is free to take his patreon down whenever he feels like it, and also stop working on his project, without giving anyone any reason, because well.. i dont think anyone signed any contracts with him, so this is still just hobby with the side effect that some people gift you money because they like it.

And please be honest here, out of the millions of reasons that the Dev might had to stop this whole thing, is there even one that in the end does not lead to the same reactions/result that can be seen right now? Like.. from what i've seen over the years i can only think of one.. which is his death. There people cant really argue because.. well he's dead.
But you are free to convince me

 

[vultron]

wow this was a good read

That is a total horse shit explanation of Patreon the patrons are not just random people walking by putting money into your hat they are monthly donors who are donating with the expectation of a product being made at best you could say someone making a one time donation is throwing money in a hat as they walk by and the people on this site who did't donate on Patreon are certainly not in a position to bitch very much but his explanation of Patreon is trash.

 

[maisbordeldemerde]

Well shit, that sucks

 

[caldess]

That is a total horse shit explanation of Patreon the patrons are not just random people walking by putting money into your hat they are monthly donors who are donating with the expectation of a product being made at best you could say someone making a one time donation is throwing money in a hat as they walk by and the people on this site who did't donate on Patreon are certainly not in a position to bitch very much but his explanation of Patreon is trash.

Well you have your opinion i have mine, i dont think your idea is total horse shit, but its certainly not realistic thats for sure.
Because the hat analogy is closer to the truth then your "donating with the expectation of a product being made". Because ofc patrons are random strangers walking by, if we stick to how it works in this forum. They see a game here, they like it and want to support the creator of that work. They donate money, the end. The expectations is a dream construct, because you cant grasp what it actually means. You think that because you donate money to me, that you are then entitled to have expectations.
That comes really close to what you would call horse shit, i would call it unrealistic and a lack of understanding on how its supposed to work. When you donate money to someone on patreon, you should do that because you liked what that person did "so far" and because you think that this work deserves support. Not because of what you expect to happen in the future.
No one signed a contract, if you sign a contract with building company X so they build your house, yes then you can expect this "product" to be made. When you donate on patreon, and expect anything whatsoever, you are an optimist at best, but the word i would use is "fool".

 

[Anon4990]

Well you have your opinion i have mine, i dont think your idea is total horse shit, but its certainly not realistic thats for sure.
Because the hat analogy is closer to the truth then your "donating with the expectation of a product being made". Because ofc patrons are random strangers walking by, if we stick to how it works in this forum. They see a game here, they like it and want to support the creator of that work. They donate money, the end. The expectations is a dream construct, because you cant grasp what it actually means. You think that because you donate money to me, that you are then entitled to have expectations.
That comes really close to what you would call horse shit, i would call it unrealistic and a lack of understanding on how its supposed to work. When you donate money to someone on patreon, you should do that because you liked what that person did "so far" and because you think that this work deserves support. Not because of what you expect to happen in the future.
No one signed a contract, if you sign a contract with building company X so they build your house, yes then you can expect this "product" to be made. When you donate on patreon, and expect anything whatsoever, you are an optimist at best, but the word i would use is "fool".

Actually people only *donate* because they liked what they saw and fully expect for the creators to feel motivated to bring more in.
No one donates out of the goodness of one's heart because if that were the case Patreon would have already gone bankrupt ages ago, legally binding contracts or not.

 

[Profound_Madman]

Actually people only *donate* because they liked what they saw and fully expect for the creators to feel motivated to bring more in.
No one donates out of the goodness of one's heart because if that were the case Patreon would have already gone bankrupt ages ago, legally binding contracts or not.

Well said

 

[Bubba Zone]

Thanks again, missed that the first time I updated.

So have you lost interest in this and moved on or are you still progressing in it? I find that usually, with the lone exception of MR.Dots, the best games get abandoned, and yours is certainly up there, great premise and wonderful characters.

 

[Phanex]

Someone please continue this project

 

[Skads]

So have you lost interest in this and moved on or are you still progressing in it? I find that usually, with the lone exception of MR.Dots, the best games get abandoned, and yours is certainly up there, great premise and wonderful characters.

Dev hasn't been seen since Jan, just forget about it. They nuked their patreon and left. Why? We likey will never know. Best to just move on.

 

[caldess]

Actually people only *donate* because they liked what they saw and fully expect for the creators to feel motivated to bring more in.
No one donates out of the goodness of one's heart because if that were the case Patreon would have already gone bankrupt ages ago, legally binding contracts or not.

I never said that anyone donates out of the goodness of one's heart. You obviously Donate because you appreciate the creators work. Not because you feel like that the poor dude in his used cloth could use your 5 bucks to get a hot meal. And there is a huge difference between those two. However they have one thing in common, and thats the fact that in both scenarios the Donor might have expectations as to what in their opinion "should" happen afterwards. But thats ins both scenarios a foolish thing to have. And the majority of the people who throw their money at people on patreon do have those expectations, there is no doubt about that, thats also the reason why some of them keep on paying creators even after months without updates. But thats like paying drinks for a woman the whole evening, even tho she never gave you any sign that she has interest in you at all. But you are already commited and now you keep it going on the vague hope that "maybe" she will change her mind. Because if you dont, you would have to admit that it was a pretty dumb thing to do in the first place. Also you cant tell your friends about that "bitch" that used your wallet to drink for free for the whole evening. And thats in the basics what i saw here, over and over again. "But but but but but...i still pay that asshole dev.. 3 months still no sign.. what a jerk... why is this piece of trash not taking down their patreon page when they stopped working, he steals our money!!!!!!" well how about being a responsible adult, and only donate when a new update is released that you like.. no one said you have to pay anyone if you dont like what they deliver. Thats what the majority just cant understand.. But how to bitch and call names.. well everyone knows how that works...

 

[Anon4990]

I never said that anyone donates out of the goodness of one's heart. You obviously Donate because you appreciate the creators work. Not because you feel like that the poor dude in his used cloth could use your 5 bucks to get a hot meal. And there is a huge difference between those two. However they have one thing in common, and thats the fact that in both scenarios the Donor might have expectations as to what in their opinion "should" happen afterwards. But thats ins both scenarios a foolish thing to have. And the majority of the people who throw their money at people on patreon do have those expectations, there is no doubt about that, thats also the reason why some of them keep on paying creators even after months without updates. But thats like paying drinks for a woman the whole evening, even tho she never gave you any sign that she has interest in you at all. But you are already commited and now you keep it going on the vague hope that "maybe" she will change her mind. Because if you dont, you would have to admit that it was a pretty dumb thing to do in the first place. Also you cant tell your friends about that "bitch" that used your wallet to drink for free for the whole evening. And thats in the basics what i saw here, over and over again. "But but but but but...i still pay that asshole dev.. 3 months still no sign.. what a jerk... why is this piece of trash not taking down their patreon page when they stopped working, he steals our money!!!!!!" well how about being a responsible adult, and only donate when a new update is released that you like.. no one said you have to pay anyone if you dont like what they deliver. Thats what the majority just cant understand.. But how to bitch and call names.. well everyone knows how that works...

Now I agree with the drinking metaphor and I think it portrays a pretty accurate description of the expectation gap between promises (or illusions thereof) and the reality of the material already delivered. The more this "gap" widens, the worse the communication between the creators and their respective communities becomes and we end up in shitty "no you!" bickering that accomplish very little, such as now.

What I still disagree since your first post is that the patreons obviously do have some degree of entitlement on the directions the product should be takin both by the self evident virtue that they are not only paying once but continue to do so in an almost salaried way and also that the creator himself knows that taking the community opinions and desires in consideration directly correlates to more paying subscribers fattening his wallet, meaning pools to vote on in-game decisions, dedicated communication channels, tiers upon tiers that reward virtual perks for people to feel special and whatnot.

 

[minombrehota]

I never said that anyone donates out of the goodness of one's heart. You obviously Donate because you appreciate the creators work. Not because you feel like that the poor dude in his used cloth could use your 5 bucks to get a hot meal. And there is a huge difference between those two. However they have one thing in common, and thats the fact that in both scenarios the Donor might have expectations as to what in their opinion "should" happen afterwards. But thats ins both scenarios a foolish thing to have. And the majority of the people who throw their money at people on patreon do have those expectations, there is no doubt about that, thats also the reason why some of them keep on paying creators even after months without updates. But thats like paying drinks for a woman the whole evening, even tho she never gave you any sign that she has interest in you at all. But you are already commited and now you keep it going on the vague hope that "maybe" she will change her mind. Because if you dont, you would have to admit that it was a pretty dumb thing to do in the first place. Also you cant tell your friends about that "bitch" that used your wallet to drink for free for the whole evening. And thats in the basics what i saw here, over and over again. "But but but but but...i still pay that asshole dev.. 3 months still no sign.. what a jerk... why is this piece of trash not taking down their patreon page when they stopped working, he steals our money!!!!!!" well how about being a responsible adult, and only donate when a new update is released that you like.. no one said you have to pay anyone if you dont like what they deliver. Thats what the majority just cant understand.. But how to bitch and call names.. well everyone knows how that works...

You know what a producer is, yeah? Those people that put money into a movie or TV show so that said movie or TV show can film its script and edit the content into a movie or TV show....that's what a Patreon patron is, especially those that support a dev or project on a monthly basis. It's their money that allows devs to bring their A-game to their projects. Be it by hiring more staff or upgrading their equipment...or in some cases, making their projects a primary source of income for themselves. To some degree, the person helping produce the project can have an input on the project. And when the creator does not deliver a project for the amount of money being put into it..the producers can wholeheartedly bitch about it. (Real world, they'd take the director or what have you to court for their money...this is different obviously.) A staunch patron who donates monthly should be heard. If the project falls through the cracks or the dev cannot complete it, a proper explanation is expected. At which point the producers can cut their funding to a dead project. If people thought like you and only paid when there was a new update, the developer wouldn't have the proper funding to keep the project alive. Go look at MrDots. Patreon threatened to shut him down, he made moves and his patrons followed en masse. He gets enough monthly funding to hire help and upgrade equipment to churn out hefty monthly updates. He asks his supporters for their input on what they'd like to see and finds ways to deliver it or work in their suggestions. Or look at LOP. They have a big following. Hundreds of monthly subscribers with whose money their team and capabilities have grown exponentially. They also have a blog and discord where they ask for feedback, suggestions, and opinions. They take months to deliver a project, sure, but when they do it's a complete game, hours of gameplay and replayability. That's how this system is supposed to work.

Whoever this developer is, clearly doesn't care for the give and take that goes into being a successful developer. There are many like him and some that are worse that start a project, make a good chunk of change, and then disappear..project in limbo. So yes...if I'm putting money in something I enjoy, something and someone I want to succeed, then not only do I expect some level of engagement or communication when I have opinions on the project but I also expect an explanation as to why the project is being abandoned.

 

[Blazblue]

It seems to me that you're confusing producing and investing. While producers are indeed involved in coordinating a project and doing whatever they can to help it come to fruition, they usually get paid for the job and do not necessarily put their own money into it.

That's all I have to say, I don't particularly disagree with your point. Bad investments suck, but hey, that's the game.

 

[Moricano]

Developer: ShuttleCockGames

I admire good projects with good stories.
But I can't help commenting because I play something unfinished.
If I had the ability to make games Renpy I was going to continue in a world of games that was abandoned.
Too bad I don't know the process of making these games.