VN Ren'Py Completed City of Broken Dreamers [v1.15.0 Ch. 15] [PhillyGames]

[Machete]

My most favorite VN girl ever,

Well, she, indeed, is the one of the most dream wife material of all VNs girls. Not only absolutely sweet and andorable, not to mention gorgeous in a very accessible way, but she is also smart, capable, with a strong personality, patient and alway up to any situation. Sure a remarkable woman under every aspect.

To answer one of the trans girl ingame quastions, Gloria is not the perfect waifu. Katie is.

 

[Deleted member 4298851]

Well, she, indeed, is the one of the most dream wife material of all VNs girls. Not only absolutely sweet and andorable, not to mention gorgeous in a very accessible way, but she is also smart, capable, with a strong personality, patient and alway up to any situation. Sure a remarkable woman under every aspect.

To answer one of the trans girl ingame quastions, Gloria is not the perfect waifu. Katie is.

And her growing mischievous side is certainly coming out. It started a little bit in chapter 6, but went through the roof in Chapter 10. At the beginning of the game you'd never think Katie would become what she has in Chapter 10; that shy, nervous, girl-next-door type has basically morphed into a calmer version of Carli, I ean she still has that girl-next-door vibe around her to a point, but she's certainly more adventurous and mischievous when it comes to the sex scenes with the MC.

She's still Katie, but there is certainly some Carli inside her now.

 

[cxx]

Before Philly got COVID, we were looking at something around Christmas (either before or after) but I'm guessing it'll be in January at this point, as I think Philly is still stuck in NYC waiting for Canada to admit him back.

chances that they don't isn't small.

 

[Deleted member 4298851]

chances that they don't isn't small.

I keep hoping when I wake up or sometime throughout the day to get a Patreon alert to a post saying he's back in Canada. I mean now with a new variant out and about in the world (originating from South Africa), things are going to get worse.

I hope he keeps himself safe.

 

[ename144]

Atleast Gloria's romance isn't as creepy as Judy's in DA, where you could sexually assault her as soon as you met her, even though she's supposed to be your daughter. Like, Judy and the MC get slipped a drugged that makes them uncontrollably horny - the same drug that ruined Stalla - and by the end of the game this somehow turned into a romance.

What I don't like as much about Gloria is that her dialogue almost makes it seem like not pursuing her is the bad outcome. I know her and the MC share a mental connection and wet dreams, but she always seemed to be uncomfortable with this. Then she suddenly wants to jump on the MC's dick to lose her virginity and is so very disappointed, when you tell her no, that pursuing and not pursuing her almost feels equally bad.
The romantic buildup is much better handled for the other LI, especially Katie and Ellen. It almost feels like Gloria is the intended LI you're supposed to go for, but it's just so handwaved. It's weird that it happens so late in the game, when she's already established as the little sister, as you said.

I agree about Judy back in DA, but not about Gloria. IMHO the game does a good job setting up Gloria's scene in Chapter 10; she may be inexperienced compared to the MC, but she is an adult (both by age and more importantly by the hand life has dealt her). It's not unreasonable for her to take charge of her own sexuality and ask the MC to sleep with her. I think it's played with the right level of ambiguity, too. Whether this is the MC taking advantage of a young girl in a stressful situation or as he's trying to offer some human comfort in a cruel world mostly up to how we perceive the MC's mindset - which feels appropriate for a noir cyberpunk story.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I think the big problem that hurts Gloria's path is the way those dreams in Chapter 9 were handled. Gloria is effectively an observer caught in the MC's sex fantasies, which is a sketchy concept at the best of times. Yes, Gloria implies she may have enjoyed the experience in the Ellen dream, but that only happens after the dream is over, which is too late for my comfort. And the Victoria dream is MUCH worse, since Gloria's response after waking up is bordering on revulsion - even if the MC stopped the dream ASAP. Blech!

It's the way those dreams were staged that causes most of the problems, IMHO. If they had done a better job establishing that the dream was a fusion of both the MC and Gloria's fantasies, it would have defanged a lot of the squick factor and allowed the two characters to begin dealing with their feelings in a measured and open way. That would have been a much smoother transition to Gloria making an overt move on the MC in Chapter 10.

Sadly, the opportunity was lost. But at least the material in Chapter 10 pulls off its half of the deal (again, IMHO).

 

[Razrback16]

I agree about Judy back in DA, but not about Gloria. IMHO the game does a good job setting up Gloria's scene in Chapter 10; she may be inexperienced compared to the MC, but she is an adult (both by age and more importantly by the hand life has dealt her). It's not unreasonable for her to take charge of her own sexuality and ask the MC to sleep with her. I think it's played with the right level of ambiguity, too. Whether this is the MC taking advantage of a young girl in a stressful situation or as he's trying to offer some human comfort in a cruel world mostly up to how we perceive the MC's mindset - which feels appropriate for a noir cyberpunk story.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I think the pig problem that hurts Gloria's path is the way those dreams in Chapter 9 were handled. Gloria is effectively an observer caught in the MC's sex fantasies, which is a sketchy concept at the best of times. Yes, Gloria implies she may have enjoyed the experience in the Ellen dream, but that only happens after the dream is over, which is too late for my comfort. And the Victoria dream is MUCH worse, since Gloria's response after waking up is bordering on revulsion - even if the MC stopped the dream ASAP. Blech!

It's the way those dreams were staged that causes most of the problems, IMHO. If they had done a better job establishing that the dream was a fusion of both the MC and Gloria's fantasies, it would have defanged a lot of the squick factor and allowed the two characters to begin dealing with their feelings in a measured and open way. That would have been a much smoother transition to Gloria making an overt move on the MC in Chapter 10.

Sadly, the opportunity was lost. But at least the material in Chapter 10 pulls off its half of the deal (again, IMHO).

Couldn't agree more. The dreams in the earlier chapters were about as poorly handled narratively as they could have been. Had Philly played things from the angle of them having erotic dreams of each other where they gradually did more and more before realizing what was happening and waking up, and then eventually led to them realizing they both wanted this, it would have hit so much better than the ick factor of having her acting as a voyeur in his dreams.

 

[ClockworkGnome]

The romance would have been better if she had not been portrayed like a vulnerable child in a huge part of the game.

While Chandra & Abby are still way younger than the MC, they're both portrayed as snarky young women with an attitude and confident with their sexuality, so it doesn't really feel wrong.

I think this is the key for me. I don't think the issue with Gloria is how she looks, or even necessarily that she's presented as young, it's how she acts. She's kind of written as a child in a way that most games with young/loli/etc options aren't (which includes Philly's last game).

Essentially, pursuing her as a love interest feels kind of like victimizing her. At a time when she's already a victim and basically desperately looking for people to trust. It basically feels like she needs a protector more than a lover, and it's far more natural to fall into a bit of a paternalistic role with her. Which then ups the squick factor unless you're really, really into that sort of violation. And it kind of makes it feel like any MC that goes after her is a huge piece of shit.

I wouldn't hesitate to pursue Chandra sex options, but I avoid Gloria like the plague. It's a hard no in my eyes - both as a player, and from trying to see the world from the perspective of the version of the MC I'm creating.

 

[ClockworkGnome]

I think the issue is that Gloria is supposed to fulfill the porn trope of the innocent virgin, which doesn't fit well with the cyberpunk setting, where nobody is innocent.

The ingenue isn't an uncommon archetype in noir, especially when it's being contrasted against the nearly ubiquitous femme fatale. And against the very nature of the setting itself. How much more precious is innocence, when it's so much rarer?

 

[RC-1138 Boss]

I think this is the key for me. I don't think the issue with Gloria is how she looks, or even necessarily that she's presented as young, it's how she acts. She's kind of written as a child in a way that most games with young/loli/etc options aren't (which includes Philly's last game).

Essentially, pursuing her as a love interest feels kind of like victimizing her. At a time when she's already a victim and basically desperately looking for people to trust. It basically feels like she needs a protector more than a lover, and it's far more natural to fall into a bit of a paternalistic role with her. Which then ups the squick factor unless you're really, really into that sort of violation. And it kind of makes it feel like any MC that goes after her is a huge piece of shit.

I wouldn't hesitate to pursue Chandra sex options, but I avoid Gloria like the plague. It's a hard no in my eyes - both as a player, and from trying to see the world from the perspective of the version of the MC I'm creating.

You took the words from my mouth.

 

[Hildegardt]

The ingenue isn't an uncommon archetype in noir, especially when it's being contrasted against the nearly ubiquitous femme fatale. And against the very nature of the setting itself. How much more precious is innocence, when it's so much rarer?

That's true, but the "high tech, low life" theme of cyberpunk often modifies the ingenue a bit, because it's difficult to keep a white dress spotless, while living in filth. So the most innocent person can be a sex worker with body modifications.
There's a juxtaposition between what's on the surface and what's below it. Like a scary cyber limb, a drug addiction and prostitution are generally repulsive, but below the surface could be kindness and gentleness.
The most innocent you can be in this setting is, when you're the victim instead of the offender. The ingenue is also a victim, but in the spotless "virginal" sense. In cyberpunk nobody is spotless, because everybody has to do something more or less bad to survive. "There is no ethical consumption under capitalism", right?

Gloria is a little too sheltered for the setting, although she isn't even supposed to be. She killed a dude and grew up homeless without her father and her father figure.
It seems like Gloria is only innocent and childlike, because that's supposed to be hot, but not for any storytelling reasons, which can be a little grating.

 

[Deleted member 4379273]

That's true, but the "high tech, low life" theme of cyberpunk often modifies the ingenue a bit, because it's difficult to keep a white dress spotless, while living in filth. So the most innocent person can be a sex worker with body modifications.
There's a juxtaposition between what's on the surface and what's below it. Like a scary cyber limb, a drug addiction and prostitution are generally repulsive, but below the surface could be kindness and gentleness.
The most innocent you can be in this setting is, when you're the victim instead of the offender. The ingenue is also a victim, but in the spotless "virginal" sense. In cyberpunk nobody is spotless, because everybody has to do something more or less bad to survive. "There is no ethical consumption under capitalism", right?

Gloria is a little too sheltered for the setting, although she isn't even supposed to be. She killed a dude and grew up homeless without her father and her father figure.
It seems like Gloria is only innocent and childlike, because that's supposed to be hot, but not for any storytelling reasons, which can be a little grating.

Grating for me because finding 'child-like' sexually attractive is what pedophiles do.

It's just a disturbing concept, though I am aware many games cater to that and incest, both of which are considired crimes in several western nations.

I wonder if developers cater to as wide a base as possible whether they agree with it personally or not (which is what pornstars do) for money, or if they actually do like that stuff?

I reckon some do, at least the ones where ALL the LI have child faces which makes me cringe.

 

[Idontplay]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think Gloria is so innocent and childish: I reckon she seems very unaware of the world, but she is also a very young woman who first has accidentally killed her boyfriend during her first time and then she started to live the life of a runaway, to escape from the ones who wanted capture and study her.
In my humble opinion she is more a young woman scared by her powers and by the people who want capture her. In fact after the death of her bodyguard (I don't remember his name), she stated very clearly she is tired to be a prey and she want be the author of her destiny; like her most active role in the last update proved.

 

[HornyyPussy]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think Gloria is so innocent and childish: I reckon she seems very unaware of the world, but she is also a very young woman who first has accidentally killed her boyfriend during her first time and then she started to live the life of a runaway to escape from the ones who wanted capture and study her.
In my humble opinion she is more a young woman scared by her powers and by the people who want capture her. In fact after the death of her bodyguard (I don't remember his name), she stated very clearly she is tired to be a prey, and she want be the author of her destiny; like her most active role in the last update proved.

This 100%!

And his name was Henry......sniff....he will be missed!

 

[cxx]

This 100%!

And his name was Henry......sniff....he will be missed!

i wouldn't be surprised if he makes return.

 

[HornyyPussy]

i wouldn't be surprised if he makes return.

I hope so! No body, no permanent death


WooHoo! 5000 posts!!!

 

[Deleted member 4298851]

I hope so! No body, no permanent death


WooHoo! 5000 posts!!!

That's what I figured after the battle. I still don't think he's dead. Just the way I feel about it.

 

[Idontplay]

i wouldn't be surprised if he makes return.

The MC doesn't like this idea; above all after he banged Gloria.

P.S. I don't like the people who came back to the death: it is a very abused trope which deprive the idea of death of all it pathos.

 

[cxx]

The MC doesn't like this idea; above all after he banged Gloria.

it was her choice.

 

[christrelos]

I hope you guys enjoy this. Two months of work, and every penny I earned from DA, if you guys don't like it, I'll go get drunk or something.

IT S A GREAT GAME.. I AM W8 FOR THE NEXT UPDATE TO CONTINUE STORY

 

[Idontplay]

it was her choice.

NEVER say to a father: «I banged your daughter because she wanted to» and you know Henry was a second father for Gloria.