It could very well be that in the fight that got her over the treshold another T3 broke as well. But how do I get the innocence break now? Ive had multiple fights since then and its not happening
Java Corrupted Saviors [Release 58] [CSDev]
You might want to upload a save of that then, as long as she has high enough unresolved trauma, you should be able to get a T3 break.
That's a bug most likely then, cause even if multiple T3 Break requirements are hit in the same fight, one will trigger after every fight until they've all triggered. If you are at the threshold for one and it's not triggering then that's a bug and you should post the save here so CSdev or someone else can check it to see what's wrong.
Loop 17:
Day 1: I get Focus, send out Massacre with 4EE, and focus on lengthening the fight to get all 3 chosen in (success).
I unlock 1 objective of any type, and take the Control Center. I have enough to unlock High Rises as well but that is not terribly useful until I can get level 5 Circumstances, so I save up for
When the situation looks like this Day 2, I use Disintegration Vapor on Figment while summoning Breaker, the 4EE basic 1000% INJU commander.
This should allow me to get both T2 Core breaks on these two and gain EE. I'll only take extra T1 breaks on Sphinx as I need to leave some unbroken on Figment for all 3 Chosen to be on the same cycle. I also research the other three 1EE techs, Eager Breeders (after testing I need one extra turn before Extermination), and all associated free techs, bringing me to 4EE after summoning Breaker.
Day 3:
I earn almost no Trauma for day 2, as is a typical weakness of INJU commanders. Good thing I'm working on one that fixes that.
I need a break on Figment in order to proceed. I have 2 options: try Massacre or succeed easily with Scissa.
I try Massacre first, buying Weakness Sense and Eager Breeders to bring me below 10EE and avoid wasting the extra EE an 11 or 12EE deployment would cost. I need to weaken Sphinx's EXPO before striking at Figment to have a chance, but this setup may do too much trauma damage too quickly to do that. I quickly find that my suspicions were correct, so I reload to try plan B.
Since I don't need to hold 10EE or so, I go on a buying frenzy, getting all 2EE and 3EE techs (many of which are free) Remembering my new Item, I also pick up Human Collaborators (unlocks Dominance, bought for free, +5EE) This brings up a small non-crash bug, CSdev : If you regain EE from 0 after a buy, your screen temporarily shows no techs available. This can be fixed by going into any other menu and back. I use this version of free energy to get Nursery Hives (Vanity), Causal Projection (Ambition), and Vengeful Reconstitution (Spite), then summon Scissa to begin attacking Sphinx (weakening her EXPO to deal extra to Figment).
Day 4
The end of Day 3 was the final introduction scene, so today I'm expecting significant EE gains. I need to delay Hymn three times to get her on the same page with Sphinx and Figment. I plan to delay her once each day with Breaker: The first day I'll break T1 CON and whatever other T1 shows up besides CON, and day 5 I'll break T2 CON (this order provides extra EE because of the vignettes after day 4). Day 6 I'll let her shift down to DIG weakness, and day 7 I'll break DIG T2 which should have everyone together again. The Transmission Tower, which I can barely afford, is purchased. I also buy Versatility, just because it's free--it doesn't open up anything. I have 6EE.
Day 5
Just checking in to say I have 34EE. The plan still seems good, so I'm sticking with it. I'm thinking Day 7 when I allow Hymn to switch, I'll summon Massacre again and try to build up massive trauma on Sphinx, Figment. I'll check in again after that. I also go ahead and decide on Passion Release for two reasons:
1) I know that once I have them all together the number of turns of Orgy will be key, and this is the largest turn increase I can buy.
2) Because of one of my items, it unlocks Impregnation, which allows for Assist Raid tomorrow, instantly getting me to 15EE per day.
I send out Breaker again and continue to follow the plan.
Day 6
I need to break Hymn's EXPO T2, then they will be on the same cycle. I check a few of my more efficient Forsaken to see if they can do this, and eventually just send Scissa out to do it.
Also I gain 15EE for the first time, not sure why. This resets everyone's PAIN trauma to 0 because of the high modifier.
Day 8
This should be the "small to medium Orgy" day if I play it correctly. The only real question that needs to be asked is do we start with Massacre or Scissa. I basically always try Massacre first. With 49 EE I go ahead and get Networked Consciousness as I consider how this is going to work. I try a few ways around massacre but nothing quite seems to get them all in an Orgy. So I'm going to bring in Scissa yet again and see what I can get, and since I don't need to hold on to a bunch of extra EE, I'll also purchase Soul Resonance (can't quite afford Genius->Reality Sealing).
My first attempts don't find a path here either. A few more things to try. The problem I keep running into is that Sphinx, or whichever Chosen I surround first, can't seem to get INJU increased during the third surround. So the 4th surround, where defense = 7, never happens. I do eventually get a measly 5 turn orgy using Massacre, but there's got to be something stronger, right? (There is something stronger, of course, but we aren't in the right weakness for it).
Day 1: I get Focus, send out Massacre with 4EE, and focus on lengthening the fight to get all 3 chosen in (success).
I unlock 1 objective of any type, and take the Control Center. I have enough to unlock High Rises as well but that is not terribly useful until I can get level 5 Circumstances, so I save up for
When the situation looks like this Day 2, I use Disintegration Vapor on Figment while summoning Breaker, the 4EE basic 1000% INJU commander.
Code:
Hymn's phase: Territorial (full HATE damage)
Sphinx's phase: Torpid (full INJU damage)
Figment's phase: Playful (full EXPO damage)
Strategic Advantage: 1.45M
Fortification: 4122
A city objective may be seized!
---
Overall corruption progress:
Hymn +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (core) [X][X][X][ ][ ]
INN (core) [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
CON (min) [ ][ ][ ][ ]
DIG (sig) [X][ ][ ][ ]
Sphinx +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (min) [ ][ ][ ][ ]
INN (sig) [ ][ ][ ][ ]
CON (core) [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
DIG (min) [X][X][ ][ ]
Figment +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (sig) [ ][ ][ ][ ]
INN (min) [ ][ ][ ][ ]
CON (sig) [ ][ ][ ][ ]
DIG (core) [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]Day 3:
Code:
Hymn's phase: In Heat (full PLEA damage)
Sphinx's phase: Torpid (full INJU damage)
Figment's phase: Playful (full EXPO damage)
Strategic Advantage: 1.49M
Fortification: 6797
A city objective may be seized!
---
Overall corruption progress:
Hymn +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (core) [X][X][X][ ][ ]
INN (core) [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
CON (min) [ ][ ][ ][ ]
DIG (sig) [X][ ][ ][ ]
Sphinx +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (min) [X][ ][ ][ ]
INN (sig) [ ][ ][ ][ ]
CON (core) [X][X][X][ ][ ]
DIG (min) [X][X][ ][ ]
Figment +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (sig) [ ][ ][ ][ ]
INN (min) [ ][ ][ ][ ]
CON (sig) [ ][ ][ ][ ]
DIG (core) [X][ ][X][ ][ ]
Which information do you want to view?I need a break on Figment in order to proceed. I have 2 options: try Massacre or succeed easily with Scissa.
I try Massacre first, buying Weakness Sense and Eager Breeders to bring me below 10EE and avoid wasting the extra EE an 11 or 12EE deployment would cost. I need to weaken Sphinx's EXPO before striking at Figment to have a chance, but this setup may do too much trauma damage too quickly to do that. I quickly find that my suspicions were correct, so I reload to try plan B.
Since I don't need to hold 10EE or so, I go on a buying frenzy, getting all 2EE and 3EE techs (many of which are free) Remembering my new Item, I also pick up Human Collaborators (unlocks Dominance, bought for free, +5EE) This brings up a small non-crash bug, CSdev : If you regain EE from 0 after a buy, your screen temporarily shows no techs available. This can be fixed by going into any other menu and back. I use this version of free energy to get Nursery Hives (Vanity), Causal Projection (Ambition), and Vengeful Reconstitution (Spite), then summon Scissa to begin attacking Sphinx (weakening her EXPO to deal extra to Figment).
Day 4
Code:
Hymn's phase: Torpid (full INJU damage)
Sphinx's phase: Playful (full EXPO damage)
Figment's phase: Playful (full EXPO damage)
Strategic Advantage: 2.48M
Fortification: 11.2k
Any city objective may be seized!
---
Overall corruption progress:
Hymn +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (core) [X][X][X][ ][ ]
INN (core) [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
CON (min) [ ][ ][ ][ ]
DIG (sig) [X][ ][ ][ ]
Sphinx +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (min) [X][ ][ ][ ]
INN (sig) [ ][ ][ ][ ]
CON (core) [X][X][X][ ][ ]
DIG (min) [X][X][ ][ ]
Figment +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (sig) [ ][ ][ ][ ]
INN (min) [X][ ][ ][ ]
CON (sig) [ ][ ][ ][ ]
DIG (core) [X][X][X][ ][ ]
Which information do you want to view?Day 5
Code:
Hymn's phase: Torpid (full INJU damage)
Sphinx's phase: Territorial (full HATE damage)
Figment's phase: Territorial (full HATE damage)
Strategic Advantage: 2.50M
Fortification: 18.4k
---
Overall corruption progress:
Hymn +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (core) [X][X][X][ ][ ]
INN (core) [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
CON (min) [X][ ][ ][ ]
DIG (sig) [X][ ][ ][ ]
Sphinx +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (min) [X][ ][ ][ ]
INN (sig) [ ][ ][ ][ ]
CON (core) [X][X][X][ ][ ]
DIG (min) [X][X][ ][ ]
Figment +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (sig) [ ][ ][ ][ ]
INN (min) [X][ ][ ][ ]
CON (sig) [ ][ ][ ][ ]
DIG (core) [X][X][X][ ][ ]1) I know that once I have them all together the number of turns of Orgy will be key, and this is the largest turn increase I can buy.
2) Because of one of my items, it unlocks Impregnation, which allows for Assist Raid tomorrow, instantly getting me to 15EE per day.
I send out Breaker again and continue to follow the plan.
Day 6
Code:
Hymn's phase: Torpid (full INJU damage)
Sphinx's phase: In Heat (full PLEA damage)
Figment's phase: In Heat (full PLEA damage)
Strategic Advantage: 2.61M
Fortification: 30.4k
Day 6 I continue to stay on the plan. I train a garbage Forsaken in Assist Raid and Broadcast, gaining 10G Angst to all. This only gets me to +6EE due to the downtime action trauma modifier here also affecting the base rate at which Forsaken change to new actions. This shows up on all 3 as "Greater Sins Imminent" which--wasn't a thing I knew could happen? I thought if they all wanted to resolve higher level trauma, they would all do an action together, but it may have something to do with the unbalanced nature of the breaks.
Day 7:
[CODE]
Hymn's phase: Playful (full EXPO damage)
Sphinx's phase: Torpid (full INJU damage)
Figment's phase: Torpid (full INJU damage)
Strategic Advantage: 2.71M
Fortification: 50.2k
---
Overall corruption progress:
Hymn +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (core) [X][X][X][ ][ ]
INN (core) [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
CON (min) [X][X][ ][ ]
DIG (sig) [X][ ][ ][ ]
Sphinx +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (min) [X][ ][ ][ ]
INN (sig) [ ][ ][ ][ ]
CON (core) [X][X][X][ ][ ]
DIG (min) [X][X][ ][ ]
Figment +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (sig) [ ][ ][ ][ ]
INN (min) [X][ ][ ][ ]
CON (sig) [ ][ ][ ][ ]
DIG (core) [X][X][X][ ][ ]
Which information do you want to view?Also I gain 15EE for the first time, not sure why. This resets everyone's PAIN trauma to 0 because of the high modifier.
Day 8
Code:
Hymn's phase: Playful (full EXPO damage)
Sphinx's phase: Playful (full EXPO damage)
Figment's phase: Playful (full EXPO damage)
Strategic Advantage: 3.67M
Fortification: 82.8k
---
Overall corruption progress:
Hymn +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (core) [X][X][X][ ][ ]
INN (core) [ ][X][ ][ ][ ]
CON (min) [X][X][ ][ ]
DIG (sig) [X][X][ ][ ]
Sphinx +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (min) [X][ ][ ][ ]
INN (sig) [ ][ ][ ][ ]
CON (core) [X][X][X][ ][ ]
DIG (min) [X][X][ ][ ]
Figment +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (sig) [ ][ ][ ][ ]
INN (min) [X][ ][ ][ ]
CON (sig) [ ][ ][ ][ ]
DIG (core) [X][X][X][ ][ ]My first attempts don't find a path here either. A few more things to try. The problem I keep running into is that Sphinx, or whichever Chosen I surround first, can't seem to get INJU increased during the third surround. So the 4th surround, where defense = 7, never happens. I do eventually get a measly 5 turn orgy using Massacre, but there's got to be something stronger, right? (There is something stronger, of course, but we aren't in the right weakness for it).
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Were all 3 doing trauma resolution actions together on that day? Cause if so that's why they were all stuck on Greater Sins Imminent. To my knowledge if Chosen are resolving trauma together then they can only do the highest trauma resolution action they all have available, and trauma resolution actions are gated behind Vulnerability Breaks and Unresolved Trauma. Since between all 3 Chosen the only Break they share between them is the T1 DIG Break, when resolving trauma together they can only perform the T1 SHAM Resolution Action, even if they all independently meet the requirements for a T2 Resolution Action (MOR and CON for Hymm, CON and DIG for Sphinx, and DIG for Figment). It's also why you started generating 15 EE after doing the T2 DIG Break on Hymm, as with that all 3 now share the T2 DIG Break and thus can perform the T2 SHAM Resolution Actions together (either that or on that day they just weren't resolving trauma together).
So. I have picked up the game again after a while. I remember nothing. Sorry in advance for the dumb questions.
I'm not trying to min-max at this point, but I do like optimising. So I'm trying to play 'sensibly', if there is such a thing in this game.
I am on Loop 2. I have never taken Forsaken training seriously before, and have never used Distortion plans. I'm trying to do both now. I did look through the guides included with the game, but they didn't answer all of my dumb questions. So here I am!
My first dumb questions:
1) Is it a bad idea to have all three Loop 2 Chosen on Distortion plans? Am I just setting myself up for failure when I get to the final battle (Day 47 in this city)?
2) It feels like Training days for Forsaken is a very bad idea at the start of a new loop, while still trying to break through the Chosen T1s. Is this correct?
I'm not trying to min-max at this point, but I do like optimising. So I'm trying to play 'sensibly', if there is such a thing in this game.
I am on Loop 2. I have never taken Forsaken training seriously before, and have never used Distortion plans. I'm trying to do both now. I did look through the guides included with the game, but they didn't answer all of my dumb questions. So here I am!
My first dumb questions:
1) Is it a bad idea to have all three Loop 2 Chosen on Distortion plans? Am I just setting myself up for failure when I get to the final battle (Day 47 in this city)?
2) It feels like Training days for Forsaken is a very bad idea at the start of a new loop, while still trying to break through the Chosen T1s. Is this correct?
1) Not necessarily, but it does depend on the distortions. Distortions that share a trait are typically easier, distortions that don't can be a lot harder. I typically try for only 2 distortions, leaving the third chosen as a wild card to help get orgies started. So doing 2 temp chosen, and 1 aversion is going to be a lot harder than just 1 temp, 1 aversion. Not impossible mind you, just difficult. I'll also add that there are some synergies when doing the same distortion on each chosen (such as negotiating with each chosen on the same day).
2) In most cases, Your probably right. I can think of one possible exception though; The Unicorn Lard Item yields +1 EE on days without a battle, and ensures that the next chosen will show in the next battle. So why not train a forsaken during your downtime?
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Thank you for replying!
So this is my current list of distortions. I have a different one set up on each one... I tried my best to not screw myself with minor/core breaks. It's the start of Day 16, and so far I've managed to avoid making anyone into friends (I'm trying to keep everyone rivals as much as possible):
Do you think it'd be worthwhile removing the plan from someone for the wildcard you suggested?
That suggestion about the Unicorn Lard sounds great, although I think it's too late to change the item for this loop. If I make it to Loop 3 I will change it... if I have it.
If you are having difficulty, it might be worthwhile to drop the distortion on Moppet. Negotiation parse well with aversion or tempation, and I think Upgrade has a nice punisher ability, so it's worthwhile to keep them on a distortion path that minimizes their disgrace.
On the other hand, I do like having a low-cost tempt forsaken to throw at early game problems, so I think the increased difficulty is probably worth it in this case.
On the other hand, I do like having a low-cost tempt forsaken to throw at early game problems, so I think the increased difficulty is probably worth it in this case.
1) It's really a case by case situation, but no there is nothing inherently bad about doing distortions on all 3, it can just things a little complicated.
2) Training days are better more in the middle of a loop to skip days to build up EE when you lack the strength to make enough progress in building up trauma for T3 Breaks to make spending EE on a Commander/Forsaken worthwhile. Though in general you should really try to end a loop as soon as possible as you get a bunch of extra free days to train Forsaken if you end a loop early through Imago Quickening.
With this set up removing a Distortion plan isn't necessary for the sake of Orgies, as every Chosen here is on a Distortion path that has overlapping breaks with another Chosen, so you can do Orgies just fine with this group. An important and non-intuitive note about Orgies is that the Orgy option is it's own separate Defiler that doesn't cause any breaks. So say you have Moppet on Force Orgasm and Shroud on Force Orgasm+, if you use Orgy on Upgrade that won't count as using Force Orgasm on her and thus wont cause a T2 INN Break. The only downside is the lack of an overlap in all 3 makes using Commanders with a Defiler become a complicated juggling act if you want to capture all 3 Chosen with it, as you risk doing too much damage and the Defiler triggering on the Chosen incompatible with that Break.
A note about items, you cant change your item after Day 1 of Loop 1, so you cant change it at the start of Loop 3. However, you do get a new item at the start of a loop starting from Loop 3 based on the Influence you get, which tl;dr Influence is one of the things listed when picking a city to go to, you get more loosely based on how difficult the city is, how much you have has some influence on what two item options you have when picking a city, you cant swap the item at the start of the loop unlike in Loop 1, but you can get Loop 1 later this way.
About Unicorn Lard, it's not really worth getting just for a little extra EE when training Forsaken. Unicorn Lard is only really useful in the early loops and tends to fall off in later loops when Damage Reduction and Preparedness is so high that skipping a day to train a Forsaken is not worth it. Not even the "Chosen arrive earlier" benefit from it is really worth it considering in later loops your Forsaken should be strong enough that with the starting EE from sacrifices you should be able to stall out the first day or two to force all the Chosen to show up right away.
Also just in general you don't want to use training that much on a Forsaken, just enough to get their corruption stats where you want them and to build enough expertise in the damage types you want them to target to get them close to shifting to that combat style. Any more training than that you and risk building corruption too high and weakening the Forsaken, later on you'll really be relying on assigning a Trainer Forsaken and setting your Forsaken on training plans in the combat style you want. In later loops outside of the free days at the end, the only reason you should be using training is to use Assist Raid or Grand Concert to build up ANGST on Chosen or restore Stamina/Motivation to your Forsaken, and even that should be done sparingly as again, in later loops you just don't have the time for that.
If you're considering resetting to change items at some point, I do have a small post broadly going over items here, though I'll admit it doesn't cover all the strengths and weaknesses of the items, like how Lard falls off in later loops due to Preparedness and strong Forsaken being able to force early Chosen arrivals, and how single use items are very strong in later loops due to being unaffected by Damage Reduction. The tl;dr of it though is that Tomorrow's Newspaper is the best item right now by a long shot (to put it into perspective, if you know what you're doing you can end Loop 1 on Day 30 with that item).
I was thinking either Moppet or Shroud. I just seem to having difficulties working with her without having a wall of red buttons cause I keep hitting 10k on the wrong things haha.
May just be a skill issue though, I'll play around with reloading to see what happens.
Thanks for putting all this together!
That's good to know about the use of Orgy, I'll try to remember this when I'm setting them up. I'm pretty good at getting two Chosen to the same T2 breaks, but still can't do it reliably with all three. Lots of replaying the same day at the moment.
Ahh good to know about changing items, thank you. I'm using Tomorrow's Newspaper, and to be honest I like having it, gives me a bit more confidence in unlocking things. If I start a new campaign I'll try out the Lard though, just to see it in action.
I'll be honest, I don't know if I'll ever sacrifice a Forsaken unless they are just unmanageable, only because I feel guilty about it lol. Here are the three Forsaken I got out of Loop 1 (I got full T4 breaks on all three of them which I was very proud of myself for doing
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I don't know what most of this means yet, I'm going through the training guide and probably will do so a few times. But I'm not going to go over 80% with any of these girls, because I think they're okay? I just don't really know how to use them yet.
Sacrificing useless Forsaken is unfortunately kinda mandatory for later loops due to the achievement tied to it which gives bonus starting EE.Thanks for putting all this together!
That's good to know about the use of Orgy, I'll try to remember this when I'm setting them up. I'm pretty good at getting two Chosen to the same T2 breaks, but still can't do it reliably with all three. Lots of replaying the same day at the moment.
Ahh good to know about changing items, thank you. I'm using Tomorrow's Newspaper, and to be honest I like having it, gives me a bit more confidence in unlocking things. If I start a new campaign I'll try out the Lard though, just to see it in action.
I'll be honest, I don't know if I'll ever sacrifice a Forsaken unless they are just unmanageable, only because I feel guilty about it lol. Here are the three Forsaken I got out of Loop 1 (I got full T4 breaks on all three of them which I was very proud of myself for doing
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I don't know what most of this means yet, I'm going through the training guide and probably will do so a few times. But I'm not going to go over 80% with any of these girls, because I think they're okay? I just don't really know how to use them yet.
As for the corruption stats:
Hostility - Lowers the motivation cost for deploying them, but makes it easier to tantrum as it's caused by motivation percent being less than Hostility percent. During training it increases the stamina cost and expertise gain. You'll generally want this stat somewhere between 30-49, as within this range you can deploy the Forsaken 3 times in a row without them throwing a tantrum, more or less than this will drop it down to 2 deployments. Also never raise this above 90, as unless the Forsaken has more than 100% Motivation, even just deploying the Forsaken once will make then tantrum, as 90 Hostility is a 11% Motivation cost which drops Motivation to 89% (100 Hostility is 10% cost, but any cost would obviously drop Motivation below 100).
Deviancy - The higher this gets the less expertise the Forsaken gains. at 50-59 Deviancy the Forsaken has base 100% expertise gain. Raising this stat is always bad, unlike the other corruption stats it has no directly positive effect to my knowledge with the exception of a non-Distorted Forsaken needing this at 35+ to be able to use the Force Orgasm Defiler. Even in training it only increases motivation costs and decreases expertise gain. Try to avoid raising this to 60 or above if at all possible, as at 60 expertise gain drops to 72%, at Kismet's 72 Deviancy that's only a 40% expertise gain.
Obedience - Increasing this makes the Forsaken more willing to consent to training which helps lower corruption gains, but it also decreases stamina regeneration. For most Forsaken you'll probably want to keep this around 50, however there are two important exception, Temptation and Negotiation Forsaken. Temptation Chosen need to keep this below 40 at all costs, as they only gain their Distortion Trait buffs while below 40 Obedience. Negotiation Chosen meanwhile don't care about this stat at all, their Distortion Trait negates the downside of Obedience by allowing their Hostility stat to overwrite their Obedience stat for the sake of Stamina Regeneration if they have less Hostility than Obedience (for example, if they have 80 Obedience and 20 Hostility, they get the +55 Consent Modifier from 80 Obedience, but instead of getting only 10% Stamina Regen from 80 Obedience, they get the 60% Regen as if they had 20 Obedience due to having 20 Hostility).
Disgrace - This is a... complicated stat, not in effect but in application. This makes Forsaken cost less EE to deploy but decreases the damage they do. The reason this stat is so complicated because where you want it entirely depends on how you plan on using the Forsaken. Forsaken you want to use in later days to build up massive amounts of Trauma and ANGST will want this low, Forsaken for use in early days to get T1/T2 Breaks want this high. Rampancy Forsaken however play weirdly with this stat as their Distortion Trait makes their EE Cost equal to the EE you have with the Reputation Strength (damage) scaling off of how much EE you paid and their Disgrace stat.
Also for training, each corruption stat is tied to a circumstance for the sake of granting expertise in training. So Hostility training will give HATE expertise, Deviancy will give PLEA, Obedience will give INJU, and Disgrace will give EXPO.
A general tl;dr of where you don't want your stats to be is to, generally speaking, never raise any of the stats above 80 or have them lower than 20, it's rarely if ever beneficial.
As for your specific Forsaken, their Corruption Stats are mostly fine, they're all above the 35% threshold in Obedience, Hostility, and Deviancy to perform all Defilers and 50% threshold for Punishers, so you don't have to worry about raising stats for those purposes. The only thing is you might want to play around with their Disgrace, and like mentioned earlier Kismet's Deviancy is a bit high though there is nothing you can really do about that. As for what you want to train them in:
Royal - Due to having Notorious Publisher you can actually go two directions with her, you can either go PLEA or HATE+PLEA and hard focus Trauma damage abusing the Trauma damage buff from it, or you can go INJU or HATE+INJU to take advantage of the Trauma damage buff to counter the low Trauma damage of INJU focused Forsaken. If you go the high Trauma route you'll want to keep her Disgrace low and use her for building up T3 Breaks in later days, if you go the INJU route then raise her Disgrace and use her for early T1/T2 Breaks. As for Punishers, obviously assign her as the Publicist and use her for T4 DIG Breaks, do not use her for as a Hypnotist or Harvester (Kismet has a better Punisher effect for both), use her as a Breeder if you are T4 MOR Breaking a Chosen who will get Braggart Breeder (Core Dignity, Significant Morality) as Scarring Breeder sets them up to build into HATE damage (if no Braggart Breeder but still want to use the Chosen, use Kismet as Breeder, if don't want to use Forsaken then use Hurricane).
Hurricane - Hurricane honestly doesn't have much going for her, she has no self buffing Punisher effect aside from Rising Publicist and reducing Disgrace is only useful if her Disgrace is too high, which it isn't, especially since with such a bad Forsaken you'll want to increase her Disgrace and use her as an early T1/T2 Breaker until you get a better Forsaken to replace her. As for what damage types to train in
Kismet - Sucks a little she ended up with such high Deviancy, but regardless Investigative Hypnotist makes her your best source of PLEA damage right now if you can stack it. How you build her though kinda depends on if you want PLEA or INJU for Royal. If you went the low Disgrace Trauma/PLEA damage route for Royal, then build Kismet with higher Disgrace and PLEA damage for T1/T2 INN Breaks. If you went higher Disgrace INJU damage for Royal, then build Kismet with lower Disgrace and PLEA damage for later day T3 Breaks. With Kismet you can either keep her solo PLEA damage or do HATE+PLEA damage. As for Punishers, obviously use her as the Hypnotist, also use her as the Harvester as Responsible Harvester is the best of the three, and use her as a Breeder under the conditions I explained in Royal's section.
At least, that's my thoughts for how I would probably train and use them. I'll admit though that I'm not the best when it comes to setting up Forsaken so someone else might have better suggestions.
Important note for assigning a Forsaken to a Punisher, only do it when you are performing the T4 Break. Do not assign a Forsaken to a Punisher early, especially when there are multiple choices for the Punisher you might want to use. Assigning a Forsaken to a Punisher then taking them off of that Punisher will drop their Motivation to 0% and result in them throwing a tantrum at the end of the day unless you do Grand Concert training with another Forsaken to raise their Motivation back above the tantrum threshold.
This is a lot to take in, and I understand about 20% of it right now lol. I'm going to bookmark this post, re-read it while I play the game, until it all starts making sense.
It does suck a bit about Kismet's Deviancy, but I think that's because she had Innocence as a minor, am I understanding it right? Cause I broke her to T4 in that, she goes in with a super-high Deviancy?
I think I'm going to use Hurricane as a T1/T2 breaker, given she's by far the cheapest in EE to deploy. It makes sense for Royal to be a high Trauma damage dealer just cause she has highest Hostility so it makes sense for headcanon.
The Positions screen descriptions confuse me a little, because I'm still learning the context for things. For example:
Notorious Publicist (+100% own trauma damage per Parasitism) [Royal]
- Their trauma damage based on training they've received?
- Parasitism received when they were Chosen, or Parasitism training moves I use, or Parasitism they use as Punisher moves against Chosen? (I'm assuming it's the third one)
Another one:
Painful Harvester (+25% victim Resolve damage from Attack) [Royal]
Who is the 'victim', is it the Chosen they attack? Is it their other Forsaken in training?
Lol that's fair, this game takes a lot of time to understand.
T4 Breaking a Vulnerability will result in them having higher corruption in the associated Corruption Stat. I'm personally not sure the exact rules on it, but yeah it seems like her being a Minor Innocence resulted in a higher starting stat than if it was a Significant/Core Innocence.
The Punisher Positions are used to have a Chosen act as a Punisher Commander, performing the T4 Break of a Chosen themselves. So Notorious Publicist means that for every time Royal performs a Parasitism/T4 DIG Break she will gain a permanent +100% trauma damage. This is completely independent of training/expertise, it just increases all trauma damage they deal to a Chosen by however high that modifier has been stacked.
Yes for the Punisher Positions any mention of "Victim" is the Chosen that the Forsaken is performing the T4 Break on.
I think I get it now, it's all about trade offs. As fun as it is to get all T4 breaks, I can see why you'd want to avoid this in certain situations. I need to start using the Forsaken Preview:
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This helps me figure out what to focus on, or what issues I may have if they are Forsaken, e.g. the 1k EE needed for Shroud may need lots of training, since I can't break Dignity as part of her Distortion plan, and it's one of her Core Vulns.. hmm I think I see the issue with Negotiation for her Distortion lol. Ah well, maybe it'll all even out later.
This helps so much, I thought Positions was just like... council positions in the Demon Lord's hive or something lol. Now I don't have to worry about filling the positions until T4s are needed, this is a big relief, cause I was freaking out that not having the positions filled immediately was bad.
Lol I should've just read the Forsaken Preview, which answered that question too... maybe this same tip could be put onto the Positions screen, for people like me who don't look at Forsaken previews until they manage to finish Loop 1:
Just train up her Disgrace later if you want to use her, you can always handle starting with too low corruption, but you cant do anything about having it start too high. Granted she's not really worth the training as she's basically just a worse Kismet, as they both share Investigative Hypnotist and Responsible Harvester, but Shroud has Demoralizing Publicist which is worse than Kismet's Practical Publicist, and Earnest Breeder over Charming Breeder is pretty situational.
There is technically no downside to leaving positions empty, though aside from the Punishers there are 2 positions that have an actual gameplay effect if filled. Trainer is necessary to fill to make Training Plans do anything, while Bait will cause the first Chosen in the next loop to have a relationship with the Bait Forsaken. Ambassador technically has a gameplay effect as the Ambassador Forsaken can be sent to meet with a Chosen through the Approach option in place of the Demon Lord, but considering Approach has no effect on anything outside of the Negotiation distortion, and what happens during the Approach for Negotiation doesn't matter, it has no actual relevant effect. The rest of the positions are pure flavor, Favorite will just cause the selected Forsaken to provide comments on your Commander body or deployed Forsaken in place of the default Analysis comment and Concubine just makes it so that the selected Forsaken cant have sex with anyone but the Demon Lord unless you order them to do so.
I think I'm at the point where I'm ready to read the Forsaken Reference manual now, because I can see it has a list of all of the different Punisher Positions. I'm going to educate myself on this so I can start seeing who has value and who doesn't.
I also saw the achievement for sacrificing someone... I would sacrifice Hurricane, so I can have extra EE for Loop 3, except Kismet will get mad with me for sacrificing her friend, won't she?
I may set Royal as Bait, see what kind of relationship she will get with Loop 3.
Thanks for all your help today!
If I remember correctly sacrificing a loved one will result in a negative training consent modifier, so not really that relevant as long as you have Kismet trained to a point where you're relying more on the training plan than actual training. Though I will say, keeping a useless Forsaken around can be useful to have set as a trainer, that way you're not having to set an actually useful Forsaken as the trainer and thus denying them their own training plan. Also they're useful in their own way to be used for Assist Raid/Grand Concert. Personally with how early you are I don't think sacrificing for 1 starting EE is really necessary, especially since you have Tomorrow's Newspaper, though I also don't think it will really hurt you to do either.