This gives me the fear. I know CSDev said the game isn't really designed with this loop number in mind yet, but knowing the game can even scale up the difficulty like that is... yikes.
Java Corrupted Saviors [Release 58] [CSDev]
Yeah don't worry too much about it. I'm getting a bit bored actually and would likely find very little challenge in this particular loop, but eventually I'd be unable to make progress and stop. CSdev asked for feedback on how Strategic Advantage works when loops get difficult, and at this point I feel like I've done that--either you're keeping up with the loop, and Strategic Advantage is giving you some nice bonuses for re-using Forsaken or after a big Orgy, or you aren't, in which case SA is not likely to turn it around for you. 20 seems like a big enough number to stop on actually, so I'll just do that.
Yeah i kinda feel the same way as well, i'll never sacrifice any of my cuties : 3I'll be honest, I don't know if I'll ever sacrifice a Forsaken unless they are just unmanageable, only because I feel guilty about it lol. Here are the three Forsaken I got out of Loop 1 (I got full T4 breaks on all three of them which I was very proud of myself for doing):
I think eventually CSDev's gonna add in ways to prevent you from being in a situation like that. If suggestions would help, being able to build strategic locations/buildings on cities you were able to acquire that would grant the demon lord bonuses would enable you to always grow in strength in proportion to the level scaling. Well, i might as well add this suggestion here since i'm already talking about it.
So, you know how you capture cities and then go straight to forsaken training? I was thinking, what if the demon lord is able to construct strategic locations/buildings and/or spend excess evil energy acquired in a loop to spend in infrastructure/development of the city (could be simple infrastructure development, edicts, energy development akin to research)? In doing so, you could have things like:
--1) Strategic locations that gives you permanent stacking bonuses for future loops.
--2) Infrastructure development could give stackings bonuses for future loops, could increase your maximum extermination bar slowly to reflect the growth of the demon lord's forces.
--3) An alternative to "Sacrificing". Once you have at least 1 city under your flag, you can command your Forsaken to go to one of your cities and influence their development (maybe a low % boost to any bonuses it provides?). The forsaken sent to said city will be gone for good though! An alternative for those that just don't want to sacrifice any of our cuties : 3
--4) An unlockable system (maybe through strategic locations/buildings) that allows you to unlock additional abilities to be used in future loops, including upgradeable stackable bonuses to your actions against the chosen (including your deployed forsaken? or maybe not and let the training system determine how powerful they can get?)
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I wonder what % of players even make it up to the strategic advantage part of the game... I feel like the majority don't get past Loop 1 at the moment, or they get to Loop 2, see the Forsaken training and give up.
Going through your posts, and Kalloi 's guides, I wonder if a basic guide on CS 'strategy' would be worthwhile. We have good tactical guides - Loop 1, Forsaken training etc, but there's no guide which combines the two together that encourage players to think with Loops 5, 10+ in mind.
I decided to restart my Loop 2 with the knowledge gained from here. It was worth it... first distortion! Was a tricky one too, cause one of the others really wanted to do a T3 Innocence break, which I think would've wrecked the Aversion distortion if it had fired. Lots of retrying haha.
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I still feel like the majority of interested players give up loop 1 because they don't understand that multipliers combine to make exponential growth. Frankly, that's not an easy concept to grasp. The Guide/Goals system does a somewhat passable job, but it's never going to kick in very far if someone plays in a very natural logical way that is wrong because of how multipliers work. For example:
They see info about getting someone to 200 DISG (a possible initial goal, for 1EE downtimes). They are able to do this by hammering on Slime, the button that increases DISG, by trial and error. 1st goal complete. They figure that increasing DISG is the way that these 1EE downtimes are generated, so when the other two chosen come in, they start hammering on DISG vs them as well, not realizing or understanding that for the other 2 chosen it's not a Core Vulnerability. So they notice that Slime deals less damage to the other two. Maybe they try one of the other buttons, or maybe they don't. But they're still making progress on the next goal "buy 10EE worth of upgrades". Maybe they're still hammering on Slime and this takes a while, but they eventually get to the next goal, "Send out a Commander worth 5EE". At this point, they may have tried out Surround and saw that it deals a little bit of damage to the numbers at the bottom, but they haven't really learned what those are for. Or maybe they still think hammering on Slime is the way to make things go up because that's the only real direction they've had for how to increase tings. They've bought Psychic Reading, so they see the bars, but they don't understand what the bars mean.
Basically, this:
Code:
Morality: FEAR --|-- HATE <= Significant Vulnerability: Use Grind and Pummel until 10k dmg
Innocence: DISG ----| PLEA <= Core Vulnerability: Reach Lv 2 PLEA
Confidence: PAIN |---- INJU <= Minor Vulnerability: Use Caress and Pummel until 10k dmg
Dignity: SHAM --|--- EXPO <= Significant Vulnerability: Use Grind and Humiliate until 10k dmgBut they've used both of their captures, their 5EE Commander is gone without doing much other than accomplishing a guide goal, Extermination is complete or nearly so, and Moppet's got 3 openings but is up to 5 defense.
At this point they probably quit. They might uninstall or they might look at the .txt included and start reading. From their reading, they understand that HATE doubles damage to Circumstances, and Pummel triples damage to Circumstances, and if they re-read they'll understand what Circumstances are and that INJU is one of them, but they're probably thinking that even if they do 6x the damage they were doing before, there's no way to get 10k.
F95zone players are used to click button, see boobies and this game--is quite a bit more than that. Those of us reading the thread this far understand that it's something unique, but I feel that without in-game guidance that is somewhat more explicit than what we have now, the average titty enjoyer is not going to expend the mental effort necessary to succeed in this game. Whether or not that's something worth putting effort into in this phase of the alpha is up to CSdev .
Anyway, that's my thinking.
They're all good thinkings. Reading through that, I can recognise several obstacles to my learnings in the game. For example:
This was me for the longest time. When I couldn't get +2 EE per Chosen to happen, I looked at the Commanders, plus the cost of upgrades, and just couldn't see how I'd ever get the Chosen even up to T2.
This is a big part of it. While the portrait packs help with a bit of instant gratification, I do stick by my Dwarf Fortress comparison - gotta struggle and learn to get to the real meat of the game.
I've been thinking about how to explain this game visually, without screenshots from the game. I had some ideas, which I may write up when I have time (I know enough to explain Loop 1 on a basic level), but unsure on the format.
All I can think of right now is using memes. For example, talking about what happens when you break vulnerabilities in a certain order:
Rivalries:
Friendships:
My suggestion, made sometime last month, is that there needs to be an integrated tutorial walking people through all steps of Loop 1, highlighting important information, telling what buttons to press and why, and pointing to important information on the screen and how to interpret it. It needs to be in the game, as a button on the main menu, listed as "First Time?" or "First Game" or something similar. I've offered to write the text that goes in and annotate a playthrough vs a Chosen team designed to show off important features if CSdev will then implement that text/tutorial in the game, but I'm not going to do it for shits and giggles or to add to the growing battery of .txt files that we are asking new players to read first. Currently all we have is the recording system which is not full-featured enough in my opinion to do this effectively. Later it can be expanded to a strategic view and oriented towards a long-term Forsaken strategy, perhaps through loop 5.
Depends on if Moppet is the one with Innocence as a Minor vulnerability and the Chosen with the T3 Innocence Break had it as their Core. If that was the case and you had used the Distortion Plan button in the info page for Moppet to select Aversion, then when you got the notification for the potential T3 Break for that other Chosen it would've said that triggering it will interfere with a Distortion Plan and in the little table that shows Vulnerabilities and Breaks it would color the "[/]" for the T3 Innocence Break as Red instead of the normal white.
Most of the things people are asking for in an integrated tutorial could just as well be provided by a video walkthrough with some commentary, just saying.
i am a tad bit confused how to make them give birth as it will say they are impregnated but seeming no matter how many days go by nothing happens
The pregnancy takes longer than 50 days. If they escape they are frozen in a government facility to prevent the pregnancy from progressing, if they are killed it dies with them, and if they turn forsaken I think it terminates? Not 100% sure on the last one.
Impregnated Chosen cannot give birth as a Chosen to my knowledge currently. The only way for them to give birth is for them to become a Forsaken, at which point they will give birth to a weak demon that skitters off somewhere. Like the game heavily emphasizes in the T4 MOR Break message and several post-Break vignettes and trauma resolution scenes (and as Celerity said), if the Chosen escapes the final battle alive the government/military will turn on the Chosen and freeze them to prevent the birth (as while a Forsaken impregnated by a demon gives birth to an inconsequential demon, a Chosen carrying a demon's child gives birth to something currently unknown but implied to be much more dangerous).
Forsaken do give birth, but becoming a Forsaken weakens the child resulting in them giving birth to an inconsequential demon in a short note in the post-final battle messages.
Nahh, they can give birth to Chosen too. IIRC it needs to be another Forsaken or a Demon Lord body that has a human dick (specifically not an ovipositor), though animal dicks might work too, but I don't know about that one.
I'm pretty sure the Insemination Defiler is explicitly a very non-human body, so offspring from that one always result in a demon being born.
I'm pretty sure the Insemination Defiler is explicitly a very non-human body, so offspring from that one always result in a demon being born.
Yes if a Forsaken gets another Forsaken pregnant (not sure if the Demon Lord can do it though, but haven't tested it either) the resulting child is a Chosen sent off to another city to become a Chosen to fight later... which personally makes no sense logically to me but I suppose it's necessary for balance reasons, would be pretty broken if you could farm Forsaken through making them impregnate each other. This only applies for Forsaken getting pregnant though, if a Chosen is impregnated by a Forsaken the child is still a demon.
Moppet had it as her Core, Shroud had it as her minor. I thought that if Shroud's T3 broke before Moppet's, that would've broken all of Moppet's Innocence vulnerabilities and ruined the plan, since Moppet hadn't even had her T1 Innocence broken if I recall correctly (I did have the Aversion plan set up).
Sure, this is also a good idea, although I personally wouldn't watch this, because I learn nothing from videos haha. I also don't know if I'd want to listen to someone verbally talking about this game...
Nah I think we have plenty of guides (with the exception of a broader strategy guide that I mentioned earlier). No more txt files haha.
The game needs more visual representations of:
1) Potential options, and
2) Potential consequences
How that is achieved, I don't know, because I don't know enough about programming to determine the difficulty of implementing things. But something which helps in some games I've played with bone-crushing depth (Songs of Syx for example) is colour-coded arrows which show what your action is about to do, a preview of sorts.
So for example, you hover over Slime, and it does this, if the Chosen has PLEA as a minor:
Two arrows for significant, three for core.
This could also work for surrounds and circumstance damage, where Grind would show the gain to HATE, but also the corresponding gains to traumas and how much the player should expect.
However I don't know if hovering tooltips/previews are possible within the engine. And I don't know if CSdev would want to implement a whole new "preview" step for each attack, as that would add an extra button press to combat...
No, only the Core will attack the Minor, not the other way around. Cause the whole reason the attack happens is because they're desperate to regain some semblance of control after having something so important of them almost completely tarnished. A Chosen doesn't hold their Minor/Significant Vulnerabilities nearly that close, so while the T3 Break is still devastating to them, it's not fracturing a Core part of who they are that they cant reconcile.
Also just to let you know, when a Distortion has been successfully triggered those scenes will change to not ruin the Distortion as the Distorted Chosen will be protected in a Distortion appropriate way. However you can still ruin the Distortion yourself, by performing Defiler actions that would trigger the T2 Break of the distorted vulnerabilities, this is especially important if you're using Commanders with Defilers to set up orgies when you have Chosen on Distortion paths with no overlapping breaks (no I definitely don't speak from the experience of putting myself in the awkward position of not being able to set up orgies because of that in a loop 1 once).
Started Loop 3. I like pain, so I'm going with the Superior Chosen. Is there a way I can tell in the description who the Superior is?
Edit: Ah. I think I found her.
Thank you for making it obvious lol
Edit: Ah. I think I found her.
Thank you for making it obvious lol
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