Okay, it's time to get into Stage 2. Now that we have access to all 3 Chosen, our progress is considerably less dependent on just letting time pass - we can make an awful lot of progress in one day, with a strong, well-targeted setup. It's time to start using Commanders and breaking Vulnerabilities!
Before we get into how to do that, let's address something I glossed over previously: Chosen Relationships. Whenever you break a Core or Minor Vulnerability on a Chosen, it will impact their Relationship with the Chosen with the opposite Vulnerability. Breaking Core first pushes the Chosen towards rivalry - this generates extra EE, and changes the Final Battle to be easier to get a basic victory in (at the cost of making it sometimes a little harder to capture the Chosen for use as Forsaken). Breaking Minor first pushes the Chosen towards friendship - this is much easier to do in the short run, and it has additional benefits in Campaign play that aren't immediately important here.
Both methods are viable, honestly, but it's better to make a deliberate decision than it is to just let the chips fall where they may. Be aware that pre-broken Minor Vulnerabilities make it considerably harder to get rivalries going.
With that out of the way, let's discuss some of the factors that make Stage 2 distinct from Stage 1:
1. Your EE income is going to be much more variable and potentially inconsistent than in Stage 1. Not only can you push the Chosen to significantly different levels of corruption in this Stage, you also get large chunks of EE for breaking T1 Vulnerabilities.
2. Just passing days without managing new Breaks doesn't benefit you nearly as much as it does in Stage 1 - you control your pace of progress here, not the third Chosen clock.
3. You will probably be reloading more here than in any other stage. It can be not immediately clear whether or not you can break a certain Vulnerability in a given day, and you can't afford to waste EE on Commanders if you aren't breaking Vulnerabilities.
4. Your capabilities will progress significantly over the course of the Stage - Breaks that would be impossible early will become very doable after some progress.
Exactly which Chosen to target which Vulnerabilities on in which order is going to be run dependent, but here are some general tips:
T1 Breaks are not *that* much easier than T2 Breaks, and it can sometimes be easier to break both at once.
Significant Vulnerabilities have no impact on Chosen relationships, and can sometimes be fairly easy to bring down.
Core Vulnerabilities can be very hard to break first on a given Chosen - you'll usually have an easier time after you break at least one of their Significant or Minor Vulnerabilities.
The easiest target to go after first is usually whoever has the lowest combined MOR/CON - though if you're trying to reserve one of their Minor Vulnerabilities for Rivalry-building purposes, it can be easy to accidentally break one on them.
Piling a bunch of Breaks on one Chosen has advantages and disadvantages - you'll potentially bring them up to 5 EE/day quickly, you'll get some one-off EE from Breaking their vulnerabilities, and they'll be a good secondary target when breaking the other Chosen, but you're gonna have trouble Rivaling them to at least one teammate, they may generate less EE than their max due to group activities (though this can be true all the time), and you'll be neglecting opportunities to get multiple breaks at once on other Chosen, in all likelihood.
So, once you've chosen a target, how do you actually get the Breaks to progress at a good clip through Stage 2? It's all about chaining captures and dealing the right types of Circumstance damage.
Because of the escalating requirements to increase damage levels, it's basically impossible (in the early Classic game, anyway) to reach even moderate levels without combining HATE, INJU, and EXPO (on a different Chosen).
The magic number to aim for in this Stage is 3 Captures/Surrounds on your primary target. You start the fight by targeting her with a Commander, make sure you raise her Circumstance multiplier as much as you can, bring her Trauma high enough you can recapture her quickly, surround/capture another Chosen (ideally one weak to EXPO, at least not Core DIG), then make sure you Surround the first Chosen before Extermination ends. Then, as long as you have one Chosen captured on the turn your Surround ends on the target, you should be able to capture her a third time.
As for your Commander, before you get some Breaks under your belt (and even after, for a bit), you'll probably want to aim for a lightly upgraded Commander in the 3-5 EE range - no Suppressor, 2-4 turns duration, 1-2 Captures. Again, save before actually using a Commander, and reload if you can't achieve any good Breaks with them. Use the cheapest commander who gets the job done, too - no point in paying 5 if 4 will do. As for Suppressor upgrades, don't even buy them until you've achieved breaks on at least 2 Chosen, and probably refrain from using them alone at all - once you can afford Versatility, it can be useful to go INJU/X, HATE/INJU, or EXPO/X to break any stubborn Vulnerabilities, but you can and should make significant progress before this point, and sometimes you might even manage full T2s without ever touching Suppressor upgrades.
Here are some recommendations for upgrades to get early, potentially before you get any breaks:
All the 1-cost Upgrades
Enhanced Polymorphism
Weakness Sense
Cunning
Perception
Persistence (and Patience as a prerequisite)
This leaves Coordinated Deployment and Eager Breeders at 2EE, and all 3EE+ upgrades available. If you really need them, you can snag the remaining 2EE upgrades, but at this point, you should be getting breaks with a 5EE 4-2 Commander, even if it means wasting a week or two saving up EE.
Once you've started to get some T1 Breaks, you should be picking upgrades with an eye towards eventually getting Networked Consciousness and Synthesis, two extremely powerful 20EE upgrades. Along the way, you'll almost certainly make use of Versatility, to make 2-Suppressor commanders, which are generally sufficient for all T2 and some T3 breaks.
Now, let's continue the guide playthrough:
As a strategic note, I've decided to try to make Void friends with both other Chosen, but make Axiom and Freedom rivals. In this phase, this means that I want to break Void's CON before Axiom's, Axiom's INN before Void's, and Axiom's DIG before Freedom's. Breaking Axiom's DIG before Freedom's will be considerably easier once I've broken her CON at least once, so Void's CON is definitely my first target (which is convenient, because it should be very easy).
D7: I'm fairly confident I can't get any breaks with a 1-cost Commander here, so this day is a wash. I focus on dealing Trauma to Freedom since she's got the lowest ANGST. It ends up more effective to get a 3-turn capture on her with the help of a 1-turn capture on Axiom than to just spam trauma attacks (this is probably almost always going to be the case)
D8: I save after I pick up Focus and Perception, mostly out of laziness, then I try experimenting a bit with a cheap 3-1 Commander. It's unlikely to work, but it's great tempo if it does. I target Void first because she's the most vulnerable, with Broken Minor MOR and Minor Con. Commander Ambush, Pummel, Grind, Caress looks a little promising, since it's enough to set up a surround with a level in each, but I can't make the turns work out for 3 total captures on her. Still, I have 2 EE spare, so I reload, pick up Eager Breeders to solve that problem, and go again. Even getting 3 total captures on her, I don't have the damage to get any breaks - the highest Circumstance I can manage is 4218 INJU. My lack of ability to inflict EXPO on the other Chosen thanks to only having one Commander capture is an issue. I do get her to 1k PLEA for the +2 EE, but just getting one of those bonuses when I had to pay 2 EE for the commander and commit 2 EE to Eager Breeders isn't worth it (even after accounting for it dealing enough Trauma to her that she could theoretically yield 2 EE, if she weren't doing group activities). So I reload, don't take a Commander or Eager Breeders, and pass this turn like the last one.
D9: I save, then evaluate what to do with my 7 EE. There are some interesting options - the obvious choice is to wait and save towards a stronger commander next turn or the turn after, which is probably where this ends up going. But I can also pick up Patience and Persistence, which would let me use a 2-2 Commander with my remaining 3EE, which has enough potential to at least try. This turns out to be a terrible idea, and I can't get any traction with it, so I reload. Next is Cunning + a 4-1 Commander, with optional Eager Breeders (which I ended up skipping). This ends up being pretty effective, so I'll go through the fight turn by turn to explain.
D9 Continued: So, this yields 2 EE for the T1 break, 2 EE for the PLEA threshold, and pushes Void into theoretical 2 EE range, though she's doing group activities instead. It leaves me with 9 EE next turn, which is exactly enough to unlock and run a 4-2 Commander for a probably considerably more effective day. Had I just skipped the turn, I'd be at 10EE without Cunning, and so unable to run a 4-2, but I'd have 4 more 1-time EE available to me. This is kind of a tight decision. Basically, this was only worth it if I get good snowball results out of the increased corruption and stronger commander available this turn - otherwise I just spent 3EE to move 4 EE up 1-2 turns. (Worrying about this is valuable optimization, but either route is totally good enough to proceed with, turns aren't *that* tight, it won't be the difference between winning or losing the run)
D10: I choose to proceed with the above run. As I said, it's good enough, and I think it's more interesting to push for a fast pace here than to delay. Save, Patience, Persistence, 4-2 Commander. I don't really want to target Void again - breaking her INN would hurt my friendship plan. So instead I take a shot at Axiom.
She proves fairly vulnerable, even with Sig MOR and Core CON, thanks to the power of a 4-2 Commander and having a +14 to damage from ANGST. Pummel, Grind, Caress, Humiliate is enough to bring her to full level 2 Traumas and full level 1 Circumstances. I then burn one turn waiting for another Chosen to show up, then capture Freedom with my second Commander use. After this, I have 2 turns to work on Freedom before I have to recapture Axiom or risk her flying away before a third Capture. I go with Pummel -> Humiliate to maximize my chances of getting a level 2 EXPO on my second time capturing her, then Surround Axiom on the last turn of extermination.
From there, Pummel -> Grind on Axiom, Surround Freedom, Humiliate Freedom is my fastest way of escalating Axiom's circumstance modifiers. I Caress Axiom to reduce the damage penalty from her Traumas on her Circumstances, Slime Void, then Surround Void on the last turn of the Surrounds on Axiom/Freedom, to give me an opening for one last Surround on Axiom. She's in a rough state here, with 7640 HATE, 11.7K PLEA, 5083 INJU, and 121 EXPO, with a teammate with level 2 EXPO. This is enough that Pummel->Grind->Humiliate->Caress triggers all 4 level 1 breaks in a row. I then waste some turns till the last turn of her Surround, at which point I have to pick which (if any) Defiler to use. She's only over 10k HATE and PLEA, which is fine, because I go for the Morality Break - breaking the same Core/Minor twice in one battle is generally inadvisable, since it means you miss an EE-generating break event post-battle.
After this, Axiom and Void are corrupt enough they'll do 2EE downtime group actions together, and Axiom is almost halfway to 3EE actions. There's also Break events between Axiom and both the others - a friendship event with Void for the Minor Inno Break, and a rivalry event with Freedom for the Core Dignity Break.
This has been so effective, I'm almost certain the decision to continue play from the aggressive route yesterday is correct.
D11: All told, yesterday netted 26 EE and made Axiom more vulnerable to further corruption. It also leaves me open to break all the remaining T1 Vulnerabilities without messing up my relationship plan. I make a start of day save, then plan my EE spend. I have a lot to play with, after all. I suspect I can get use out of another day or two of 5 EE commanders, maybe more, so I'm not too concerned with Suppressor upgrades or Versatility. I do think that Coordinated Deployment and Eager Breeders are both worth the cost, now that they're such a small portion of my bank. I'm looking towards making a rush towards Networked Consciousness in the relatively near future, since it's looking affordable, but I'm not ready to commit to it yet. I might want to make a Versatility play before that instead. There's also an argument for Vengeful Reconstitution (which can help simplify battles).
I decide to just roll with the cheap upgrades and roll over 17 EE till tomorrow, unless I see good value from an alternative today. Some experimentation finds that if I took Nursery Hives, I could get an extre turn pre-extermination and probably improve my results for the day, but I don't think it's worth the 8 EE to get Mania and Nursery Hives, when neither are required for Networked Consciousness. If I end up wanting to go Versatility including Mania later, this might be worth reloading to?
For now, I do without, and playing in much the same way as on previous days, I achieve level 1 breaks on everything for Freedom. No level 2s, unfortunately, but that's not surprising given her lower ANGST going in and fairly robust circumstance resistance.
D12: 4 more Level 1 Breaks and a friendship vignette later, I'm at 37 EE, and all Chosen are up to 2EE/day. Today I hope to get Void's remaining level 1 breaks, and maybe level 2 CON or DIG. Out of curiosity, I check how close I am to Networked Consciousness - I'd need 17 EE more to afford it and still run a 5 EE commander. That's a bit away yet, but we'll see.
Void proves a tougher nut to crack than last time, thanks to her adaptations from her T1 Break, and I struggle to get both breaks happening. I decide I might as well brute force things a bit here instead of rushing Networked Consciousness. I pick up Versatility, Hunger, and Anger, then send out a 10EE commander using both Hunger and Anger, targeting Void. It blows through Void and Axiom's defenses, and I pick up T1 Inno and Dig breaks on Void, T2 CON on Void, and T2 Dig on Axiom.
I get a friendship event between Void and Axiom, a rivalry event between Axiom and Freedom, and push Axiom into 5EE/day territory.
D13: Between the costly Commander and the required upgrades, yesterday broke even and I'm back at 37EE. Second verse is the same as the first, this time targeting Axiom. I also decide to go ahead and pick up Causal Projection, since it's a requirement for Networked Consciousness and I should be able to start generating a bit of EE with it.
The fight ends up taking a bit of iteration this time, because I want to break Freedom's CON and both INN and CON on Axiom. I have plenty of turns to make it happen, though. One attempt ends after getting all my desired Breaks with 14 turns to spare on my surrounds, which is unfortunately 1 short of getting another EE from Causal Projection, so I replay to get another. If I really wanted to here, I could focus hard on PAIN on Axiom, and set her up for a T3 break next battle, which would be fairly productive, but for simplicity, I'm going to avoid doing so.
D14: To recap, here's my current Chosen state:
Axiom: Full T2 Breaks
Void: T2 MOR and CON
Freedom: T2 CON
I have 34 EE, and would need to spend 38EE to get Networked Consciousness - I know I keep bringing it up, but it's really very strong. Synthesis, the other really notable 20EE upgrade, is a little further away, and in practice much further away given the cost required to actually use it. I've reached a point where T3 breaks are within reach, but I don't quite have everything I'd like to set up several at once. This turn, I'd like to get 2 Breaks on Freedom, and maybe 1 on Void. Ideally, this will push one or both to the 5EE/day Trauma range, which will help with getting those powerful upgrades (and sustaining my EE, using these more expensive Commanders.)
I use the same HATE/INJU commander as usual, targeting Freedom. Unfortunately, even with a CON break, she's fairly durable, and I can't push her circumstances high enough to get a Defiler action off on the second capture. In the end, I break her MOR and Void's DIG, hopefully setting me up to finish them off next turn. This also pushes Freedom into 5 EE/day territory.
D15: 37EE today - we're slightly positive using these 10EE commanders now. Hoping to finish off T2 Breaks today.
It ends up being fairly easy to do so - the extra Breaks significantly improve my turn tempo, and I end up Broadcasting Freedom on the second Surround with turns to spare, which was the uncertain goal.
After the day is over, the Day 15 extended event fires, giving a total of 8EE for the Chosen's corruption levels. Today also finally pushed Void into 5EE/day territory, bringing my income up to 15.
That wraps up Stage 2, with full T2 breaks and 51EE in the bank. Next Stage, we set up T3 breaks with the power of the Orgy command.
Okay, so, Stage 3. To be honest, this is probably the part of the game which least deserves to be called its own stage - At the front end, you can find some success using the same tactics as in late Stage 2, and are working towards a similar kind of corruption goal, where the main point is to pile on the Chosen in a single battle. Towards the back end, you're dealing with the challenges that I'll mostly be discussing in Stage 4 - namely, the T3 adaptation actions, which transform gameplay significantly.
With that in mind, I'm going to focus this section on one particular strategy for quickly setting up multiple T3 breaks at once on every Chosen, which blows through this Stage in theoretically as little as 1 turn. You don't have to do it this way; it's perfectly viable to break 1-3 T3 Vulnerabilities at a time instead. But this is an extremely powerful strategy that becomes more complicated to execute if you break certain T3s first, so I think it's worth a dedicated section.
What we're aiming for is very specifically a Commander with 3 Captures and the ability to deal damage to 3 damage types - I tend to exclude PLEA, but it will sometimes be better to drop HATE or even INJU (EXPO is probably mandatory, but admittedly I haven't experimented much). This requires Synthesis and Determination (plus some pre-reqs). Unless you got a large chunk of 1-time EE from a T3 Core Break rivalry event or by achieving a Distortion that grants 100EE, you will probably have to burn some turns gathering EE to make this happen even after you finish all T2 breaks.
You don't even need Intelligence or Vengeful Reconstitution here, much less Networked Consciousness - 4 turns should be plenty. All you really have to do is buy a 4-3 triple damage commander, hit each Chosen once with it before Extermination ends, and then put them all in a 10+ turn Orgy. Long orgies have an extremely effective positive feedback loop for all types of damage, and just running one can potentially push all the Chosen into high enough Trauma to unlock every T3 break.
So let's quickly get into the guide playthrough:
D16: Today, we do... nothing. We need 77 EE to set up the Commander explained above from our current upgrade levels. It's worth wasting two days here.
D17: Nothing again!
D18: At 81 EE, this is the big turn. We buy Determination and Synthesis, along with their prerequisites for 51 EE, then spend 26 EE on our Commander, and ambush Void. She's got the lowest overall resistance to HATE/INJU/EXPO, and she's the one who misses out on EXPO levels from other Chosen raising them. It's plausible she's not the optimal target, but she's good enough.
After this battle, every Chosen's ANGST bonus is up to +55 base damage, all T3 actions will be unlocked over the next few turns, and they should be pinned to their maximum EE actions based on their break level for the rest of the game. We're now extremely well set up for P4, where the gameplay transforms from being about hitting them harder to letting them hit you as hard as possible.
I also think something seems off with Greater sins imminent. 3 Chosen all at e16 Trauma in every stat and each with a Total Break should not be doing 45EE group downtime actions. If I skip the next turn, Void does a 50EE action and the other two do a group 30EE action. Same if I skip another. Only after skipping a third time do I get 50 EE each.
I also think something seems off with Greater sins imminent. 3 Chosen all at e16 Trauma in every stat and each with a Total Break should not be doing 45EE group downtime actions. If I skip the next turn, Void does a 50EE action and the other two do a group 30EE action. Same if I skip another. Only after skipping a third time do I get 50 EE each.
View attachment 3273427
They have no T4 action that they can do together because they share no T4 breaks. Break Axiom's T4 MOR and they will start destroying military bases together.
I also think something seems off with Greater sins imminent. 3 Chosen all at e16 Trauma in every stat and each with a Total Break should not be doing 45EE group downtime actions. If I skip the next turn, Void does a 50EE action and the other two do a group 30EE action. Same if I skip another. Only after skipping a third time do I get 50 EE each.
View attachment 3273427
Axiom can only do the DIG T4 Action while Void and Freedom can only do the MOR T4 Action, so when doing 3 person group actions they have to drop down to a T3 action. The next day they do different actions, likely because the trauma resolution changes the distribution enough where Void decides to go solo allowing her to do her T4, same happens on the next day where the trauma distribution likely settles in a way where they all decide to go solo to do their highest tier resolution activity.
That doesn't seem right. They all have such colossal Trauma numbers, the Trauma resolution is a tiny drop in an enormous bucket - after 1 skip, none of their Traumas even have the third digit change, much less change rank order. The distribution, as far as is visible to the player, is exactly identical. Also, Void has an Unbreakable Friendship with the other two, who are Bitter Enemies with each other, yet they're doing group actions without her despite both having higher tier solo actions, which is just weird. I guess it's a Rivalry-flavored action (I have no idea if it's actually any different under the hood than if it was a friendly action, the game is weirdly opaque about this), but still, it's strange to me.
I also double checked, and after 2 turns of the above, Void and Freedom start doing group MOR actions and Axiom does solo DIG, as I expected them to do from the beginning. *none* of their rank orders for Trauma changed at all in that process, the only visible change is Void going from 15.3P FEAR to 15.2P FEAR. I have no idea what's changing their priorities, but it doesn't look like it's Trauma resolution. I kind of wonder if something is broken about Trauma above 10P in particular. It seems like it's a softcap, but predicting how Traumas will increase when going above it in battle seems like a bit of a crapshoot.
To give a little feedback, it feels *terrible* to have so much EE lost to such an opaque system. It should either be the case that having all Chosen on the same max tier of Break guarantees they'll do actions of that tier, or that we have much more in-game insight into the numbers controlling downtime actions, because it feels really inconsistent from my perspective.
That doesn't seem right. They all have such colossal Trauma numbers, the Trauma resolution is a tiny drop in an enormous bucket - after 1 skip, none of their Traumas even have the third digit change, much less change rank order. The distribution, as far as is visible to the player, is exactly identical. Also, Void has an Unbreakable Friendship with the other two, who are Bitter Enemies with each other, yet they're doing group actions without her despite both having higher tier solo actions, which is just weird. I guess it's a Rivalry-flavored action (I have no idea if it's actually any different under the hood than if it was a friendly action, the game is weirdly opaque about this), but still, it's strange to me.
I also double checked, and after 2 turns of the above, Void and Freedom start doing group MOR actions and Axiom does solo DIG, as I expected them to do from the beginning. *none* of their rank orders for Trauma changed at all in that process, the only visible change is Void going from 15.3P FEAR to 15.2P FEAR. I have no idea what's changing their priorities, but it doesn't look like it's Trauma resolution. I kind of wonder if something is broken about Trauma above 10P in particular. It seems like it's a softcap, but predicting how Traumas will increase when going above it in battle seems like a bit of a crapshoot.
View attachment 3275144
To give a little feedback, it feels *terrible* to have so much EE lost to such an opaque system. It should either be the case that having all Chosen on the same max tier of Break guarantees they'll do actions of that tier, or that we have much more in-game insight into the numbers controlling downtime actions, because it feels really inconsistent from my perspective.
I think its because of their friendship also though. I do agree it is slightly annoying. I find it easier to make them enemies for more EE and for this issue and then fix them with friendship after.
"Eager Partner" Forsaken Distortion trait becomes "Eager Partner (Feral Heart)"
Retains bonuses even at 40% Obedience and above
However, while at 40% Obedience and above, loses 1% Obedience and 50% Motivation when left idle
Isnt this just straight up not useful compare to the other 3 distortions? Also don't you lose the 1/4 cost so its even worse? The other 3 are at least interesting, this doesn't actually even provide anything, I'd argue this is just a nerf even. Honestly just comparing animalistic to undead isnt undead just way better?
"Eager Partner" Forsaken Distortion trait becomes "Eager Partner (Feral Heart)"
Retains bonuses even at 40% Obedience and above
However, while at 40% Obedience and above, loses 1% Obedience and 50% Motivation when left idle
Isnt this just straight up not useful compare to the other 3 distortions? Also don't you lose the 1/4 cost so its even worse? The other 3 are at least interesting, this doesn't actually even provide anything, I'd argue this is just a nerf even. Honestly just comparing animalistic to undead isnt undead just way better?
"Retain bonuses above 40% obedience" - They will have the bonus at +40% obedience which are lost by other tempted forsaken at high obedience. Though obedience only affects stamina regen (High obedience->Low regen) and Consent modifiers(High obedience->Easy consent) from what I know. I agree that some forsaken get easily overshadowed by others, atleast in my opinion.
Honestly I don't know how to use forsaken properly myself. I just make sure to get a few 1000% forsakens with specific distortions at low costs for some specific breaks(Especially for breaking Animalistic chosens). Other than that I use the "Self +200% trauma" trait forsaken to get a Inju/Expo damage forsaken for early Days(Preferably undead)
Temptated Undead are the best imo, you can spam them with their low motivation and energy cost + Stamina restoration with trauma damage. Train them to be wild(Inju+Expo DMG) then add a bit of pleasure expertise. In battle you can use them to get lvl2/3 inju/expo then change to tempt style for pleasure damage.
Even got lucky in my current run and got a "Victim +840% trauma damage as forsaken" punisher, now waiting for a "self 200%Trauma increasing" undead to appear so I can stack unreasonable amount of trauma damage.
I was wondering, can item choice be made seperate from city choice? Or Maybe add a swap item option for every item choice?
Sometimes the item I want to choose and the chosen I want to face are not in the same city which is kinda annoying.
I was wondering, can item choice be made seperate from city choice? Or Maybe add a swap item option for every item choice?
Sometimes the item I want to choose and the chosen I want to face are not in the same city which is kinda annoying.
Item choice isn't random, it's based on the difficulty of the cities you face, so you cant disconnect item and city choice as iirc the difficulty of the city has some influence on what item is picked for it.
I was wondering, can item choice be made seperate from city choice? Or Maybe add a swap item option for every item choice?
Sometimes the item I want to choose and the chosen I want to face are not in the same city which is kinda annoying.
There's no reason that CSDev couldn't do this, but to be honest I prefer making some tough choices every now and again, and it does seem reasonable that these would be a "complete package" as it were.
There's also the issue that that would change the Influence around, and some choices that result in very low Influence could go negative with different items, and while that wouldn't exactly break the game or anything (I think) it would mean that people aren't playing at the intended power level and be ugly in a way most people would rather not see or deal with.
That doesn't seem right. They all have such colossal Trauma numbers, the Trauma resolution is a tiny drop in an enormous bucket - after 1 skip, none of their Traumas even have the third digit change, much less change rank order. The distribution, as far as is visible to the player, is exactly identical. Also, Void has an Unbreakable Friendship with the other two, who are Bitter Enemies with each other, yet they're doing group actions without her despite both having higher tier solo actions, which is just weird. I guess it's a Rivalry-flavored action (I have no idea if it's actually any different under the hood than if it was a friendly action, the game is weirdly opaque about this), but still, it's strange to me.
I also double checked, and after 2 turns of the above, Void and Freedom start doing group MOR actions and Axiom does solo DIG, as I expected them to do from the beginning. *none* of their rank orders for Trauma changed at all in that process, the only visible change is Void going from 15.3P FEAR to 15.2P FEAR. I have no idea what's changing their priorities, but it doesn't look like it's Trauma resolution. I kind of wonder if something is broken about Trauma above 10P in particular. It seems like it's a softcap, but predicting how Traumas will increase when going above it in battle seems like a bit of a crapshoot.
View attachment 3275144
To give a little feedback, it feels *terrible* to have so much EE lost to such an opaque system. It should either be the case that having all Chosen on the same max tier of Break guarantees they'll do actions of that tier, or that we have much more in-game insight into the numbers controlling downtime actions, because it feels really inconsistent from my perspective.
I certainly wouldn't want to stake anything important on saying "this section of code is working as intended and bug-free". Reading this section from the .jar file made my eyes glaze over, but I tried to untangle it as much as I could in my post on the subject. And I don't plan to do that again. Every downtime action is on its own indent level. But what is clear from my viewpoint is:
1) The largest difference between traumas for a single Chosen is less than 25%, so there is not a strong preference for relieving any particular Trauma. Most of the Traumas differ by less than 10% (this isn't a threshold or anything, it's just saying that they basically won't send each other a signal saying, "No, I really need to resolve PAIN instead"
2) They have no T4 activities available to do together, so if their weighting determines that they need to do an action together, that action will be a T3 action.
It is entirely possible that there is a bug in the code for this function that deals with numbers being above this game's maximum and the associated multiplier code (because that's written separately into just about every function instead of being handled on a global level in its own function) but I'm not going to piece together uncommented code to try to find it.
"Retain bonuses above 40% obedience" - They will have the bonus at +40% obedience which are lost by other tempted forsaken at high obedience. Though obedience only affects stamina regen (High obedience->Low regen) and Consent modifiers(High obedience->Easy consent) from what I know. I agree that some forsaken get easily overshadowed by others, atleast in my opinion.
Honestly I don't know how to use forsaken properly myself. I just make sure to get a few 1000% forsakens with specific distortions at low costs for some specific breaks(Especially for breaking Animalistic chosens). Other than that I use the "Self +200% trauma" trait forsaken to get a Inju/Expo damage forsaken for early Days(Preferably undead)
Temptated Undead are the best imo, you can spam them with their low motivation and energy cost + Stamina restoration with trauma damage. Train them to be wild(Inju+Expo DMG) then add a bit of pleasure expertise. In battle you can use them to get lvl2/3 inju/expo then change to tempt style for pleasure damage.
Even got lucky in my current run and got a "Victim +840% trauma damage as forsaken" punisher, now waiting for a "self 200%Trauma increasing" undead to appear so I can stack unreasonable amount of trauma damage.
Item choice isn't random, it's based on the difficulty of the cities you face, so you cant disconnect item and city choice as iirc the difficulty of the city has some influence on what item is picked for it.
There's no reason that CSDev couldn't do this, but to be honest I prefer making some tough choices every now and again, and it does seem reasonable that these would be a "complete package" as it were.
There's also the issue that that would change the Influence around, and some choices that result in very low Influence could go negative with different items, and while that wouldn't exactly break the game or anything (I think) it would mean that people aren't playing at the intended power level and be ugly in a way most people would rather not see or deal with.
I certainly wouldn't want to stake anything important on saying "this section of code is working as intended and bug-free". Reading this section from the .jar file made my eyes glaze over, but I tried to untangle it as much as I could in my post on the subject. And I don't plan to do that again. Every downtime action is on its own indent level. But what is clear from my viewpoint is:
1) The largest difference between traumas for a single Chosen is less than 25%, so there is not a strong preference for relieving any particular Trauma. Most of the Traumas differ by less than 10% (this isn't a threshold or anything, it's just saying that they basically won't send each other a signal saying, "No, I really need to resolve PAIN instead"
2) They have no T4 activities available to do together, so if their weighting determines that they need to do an action together, that action will be a T3 action.
It is entirely possible that there is a bug in the code for this function that deals with numbers being above this game's maximum and the associated multiplier code (because that's written separately into just about every function instead of being handled on a global level in its own function) but I'm not going to piece together uncommented code to try to find it.
I see, I thought it was random. I think it's fine to keep it that way if it's based around influence.
Though the choice I had was between Non superior/Superior city(Loop 3) and I had to do leave a superior chosen because of it.
Hmm. So uhh. Are the alternate skip loops somehow broken? I have the option for Loop 5 as I did the animalistic distortion before t3. However, my screen is kind of frozen. Any ideas?
Edit: Just super long loading time then it loaded (HOWEVER)
There is a bug, the loop doesn't exist. I think the update 49b-d one of it messed something up as I tried a fresh 49 download of game and the sprawling slums was there this time. Idk if anyone can message CSDev for a later hotfix in future.
General goals of training a Forsaken-- (not exclusive but you won't have every goal for every Forsaken)
1) If they're too expensive, raise their Disgrace until they cost a more reasonable amount.
2) Increase expertise to change their damage types or make them more effective with the damage types they have.
3) Increase their Corruption stats so they can use the correct Defilers/be in the right Punisher positions.
Really, though, a Forsaken is a whole package, and you should be thinking about how to use them (and whether or not they're usable) right around the time that you get Psychic Reading and you can view what all three of the Chosen's Punishers might be.
Your Demon Commander is a well-used, sharpened chef's knife, suitable for many kitchen tasks. Well-built Forsaken are your specialty tools--an apple slicer, a cheese grater, an electric blender--that perform one task extraordinarily well.
...
If you mean trainer as in the position, then too my knowledge the stats of the trainer Forsaken don't effect anything, the only thing that matters is the stats of the Forsaken receiving training, specifically their Deviancy. As for how much Deviancy you want on the Forsaken receiving training... ideally as little as possible, Deviancy is the one corruption stat that has exclusively negative effects (the only thing it does is decrease their expertise gain), so if the Forsaken is used for INN Breaking then you want 50 Deviancy so you can use the Defiler/Punisher, otherwise avoid raising Deviancy if you can help it.
How good is rampage, I usually avoid it? I'm curious is there a use to them, it seems like it just forces you to use them or you basically get destroyed by motivation. I'm struggling to understand why I should try get them? I would assume they have low deviancy so they have high training value? But why would I not just spam like temptation undead or something. Seems like its hard also to even get multiple of them since u got use them or am i misunderstanding idle?
Also what loop do you guys starting having to swap to forsaken? I'm trying to find a usage for forsaken when tomorrow's newspaper is so busted. I'm on Loop 7 and I usually can proc a temptation on like Turn 9. I usually just build up upgrades till day 7 where I get a 5 ee commander then nuke them for 30+ ee on day 8 and then nuke them again for a temptation. (also correct me if I'm wrong but isnt increasing innocence to higher break points just bad since it correlates with deviancy (exp value)
How good is rampage, I usually avoid it? I'm curious is there a use to them, it seems like it just forces you to use them or you basically get destroyed by motivation. I'm struggling to understand why I should try get them? I would assume they have low deviancy so they have high training value? But why would I not just spam like temptation undead or something. Seems like its hard also to even get multiple of them since u got use them or am i misunderstanding idle?
If you put them in a position it stops them from losing motivation, you don't have to field them in battle, so if you only have one make them the trainer. As for their use, as long as you don't raise their Disgrace too much they scale throughout each loop due to how their EE Cost/Rep Strength works. Early in the loop you can cheaply field them and they'll be effective, and later in the loop as long as their Disgrace isn't too high you can spend more EE on deploying them to make them stronger. Meanwhile without one you need two Forsaken, one low cost Forsaken for early breaks and one more expensive Forsaken for later breaks/setting up orgies. Obviously that's a gross over simplification, you'll obviously want a lot of Forsaken for attacking different configurations of vulnerabilities at different points in a loop, and you wont want a lot of Rampancy Forsaken, but as long as you know how to manage them they're very effective in the earlier loops when you don't have don't have so few Forsaken that aren't all that well built.
Also what loop do you guys starting having to swap to forsaken? I'm trying to find a usage for forsaken when tomorrow's newspaper is so busted. I'm on Loop 7 and I usually can proc a temptation on like Turn 9. I usually just build up upgrades till day 7 where I get a 5 ee commander then nuke them for 30+ ee on day 8 and then nuke them again for a temptation. (also correct me if I'm wrong but isnt increasing innocence to higher break points just bad since it correlates with deviancy (exp value)
I try to switch into Forsaken as soon as possible, but that's also just a personal thing to force myself to get better with Forsaken as even after all this time I'm only really passable with them. Though really, as long as you're still making sure to build up your Forsaken throughout the loops (such as using the Forsaken you want to build with positions that increase their damage for T4 breaks to do T4 breaks) so that they're ready for when Commanders stop working, there isn't any issue with just using Commanders until getting to that point.
As for Deviancy, ehh it's more of a judgement call than a hard rule. If you want to use the Chosen as a Forsaken to attack Innocence vulnerabilities then higher breaks for Innocence is fine since you'll want them at 35-50 Deviancy anyways for Defilers/Punishers. Though if you don't want to use them to target Innocence then I probably would avoid going past a T2 Break, but if they aren't an Aversion/Rampancy Distortion (and thus cant get Innocence Breaks anyways) a T3 INN Break isn't the end of the world, and if you're desperate for EE doing the T4 Break isn't really bad either as iirc that only puts them in the 50s or 60s for Deviancy which is manageable.
How good is rampage, I usually avoid it? I'm curious is there a use to them, it seems like it just forces you to use them or you basically get destroyed by motivation. I'm struggling to understand why I should try get them? I would assume they have low deviancy so they have high training value? But why would I not just spam like temptation undead or something. Seems like its hard also to even get multiple of them since u got use them or am i misunderstanding idle?
Also what loop do you guys starting having to swap to forsaken? I'm trying to find a usage for forsaken when tomorrow's newspaper is so busted. I'm on Loop 7 and I usually can proc a temptation on like Turn 9. I usually just build up upgrades till day 7 where I get a 5 ee commander then nuke them for 30+ ee on day 8 and then nuke them again for a temptation. (also correct me if I'm wrong but isnt increasing innocence to higher break points just bad since it correlates with deviancy (exp value)
I don't like managing rampages myself so I never use them but they can be useful in early I guess or if you get a really bad undead team. As McHuman said you can put them in a punisher position to deal with them. Trainers don't regen stamina so that's kinda pointless but it will stop rampages.
For me the best use of rampage is to get the bonus 100 energy then use that energy to break their innocence or confidence to remove rampage.This is what I do to chosen I decide to sacrifice usually or to get more punisher achievements from undead/animalistic chosen.
Other than that ramapage is one of the easier ones to trigger(espc with inevitability) so you can use ramapage to defeat chosen on the lower days loop( lowest I have gotten is a~ 20 day undead loop) without t4 breaks.
I have reached upto Victory(Loop 10) without using any forsaken once and then realised the use of forsaken because of her. Though you will probably face Splendor to unlock devil chosen but make sure to ready some forsakens for Victory.
