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fenyx

Member
Jun 16, 2017
142
52
What's the priority system for T1 breaks? I have a Chosen with Core Morality / Minor Dignity and no breaks. I've used Barrier Jammer to start her with 10k Hate but when I go to do an opening action, Grind will always break Dignity and the other three actions won't break anything until I've broken Dignity at which point Pummel will break Morality.

Is it because Dignity is Minor or is there a priority system for the breaks regardless of vulnerabilities?
That happens to me too, T2 breaks drive me up the wall, sometimes hitting something different than the grind (or the other thing that appears in the info, for example grind and pummel or grind and expose) changes the t2 break


[/QUOTE]
Here's what I'm up against in Loop 2:
View attachment 3623850

If Chaos goes Rampancy, Miracle goes Aversion, and Tyrant goes Aversion or Negotiation; then Chaos and Miracle can be friends and Miracle and Tyrant can be friends and it's just Tyrant and Chaos who won't get along.

But can you even do Negotiation and Rampancy on the same team since Rampancy zeroes out Trauma? And am I just thinking about this all wrong? That's generally how I approach Chosen squads: I look at what distortions hit as many cores and minors as possible but I'm wondering if that's not what I'm supposed to be doing at all.
I also tried that for my last run, it stopped at 11
 

BigCut

Newbie
Dec 13, 2023
66
69
To CSDev, and anyone else who's managed to produce character portraits for this game:

What's the trick to generating a set of different expressions and/or poses for the same character?

I'm more than able to create a single image that's up-to-par, but generating a set of 9 unique expressions for a single character has been eluding me thus far.

I play around with LoRA's, ControlNet (though it only half-works), various models (and merging them), I use ADetailer to improve faces/gentials/etc. but I still feel like there's something vital I'm missing.

Any little bit helps, but a tutorial of some kind would be a godsend.

If there isn't one, maybe that's something that could be useful in order to expand upon the selection of Chosen/Forsaken portraits in the future?


"Proof of concept" provided, this is an example of what I managed to pull out of my ass last time I gave this a go:
 

SuperSkippy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
294
136
What's the priority system for T1 breaks? I have a Chosen with Core Morality / Minor Dignity and no breaks. I've used Barrier Jammer to start her with 10k Hate but when I go to do an opening action, Grind will always break Dignity and the other three actions won't break anything until I've broken Dignity at which point Pummel will break Morality.

Is it because Dignity is Minor or is there a priority system for the breaks regardless of vulnerabilities?
Yeah, I'm not sure actually, since each T1 selfish tactic affects two stats, how it decides which one to use first. As someone else said below, when I find myself in this circumstance I'll hit other stats. Often then my next Surround will allow me to break the stat I'm actually looking to break.

Here's what I'm up against in Loop 2:
View attachment 3623850

If Chaos goes Rampancy, Miracle goes Aversion, and Tyrant goes Aversion or Negotiation; then Chaos and Miracle can be friends and Miracle and Tyrant can be friends and it's just Tyrant and Chaos who won't get along.

But can you even do Negotiation and Rampancy on the same team since Rampancy zeroes out Trauma? And am I just thinking about this all wrong? That's generally how I approach Chosen squads: I look at what distortions hit as many cores and minors as possible but I'm wondering if that's not what I'm supposed to be doing at all.
I worry less about breaking cores/minors/friendships/enemies than I do about what I see when I click that Forsaken Preview button. If they've got good Punishers that help me build other Forsaken I generally want to pick Aversion or Negotiation (or maybe Megalomania) and if they've got Punishers that build themselves up I want to go Tempted (or get my one Rampant Forsaken). I try not to be in a situation where I need the EE from Core Breaks if I can help it. I look at those as soon as I get Psychic Reading and try to figure out what the best possible combination of Distortion and Total Breaks would be with my current roster to make the single strongest Forsaken I can.

Rampancy doesn't zero out trauma exactly, it's just that when you first trigger it she's not likely to have that much Trauma on her. The Rampancy downtime is -1G all Trauma, -10G Angst. You can get them above these values of trauma through careful manipulation of their Circumstances and consideration of their Vulnerabilities. You can do a lot of INJU damage before starting the Orgy, and start the Orgy with Sodomize so her HATE goes up more slowly (once she's got Rampancy active, obviously you first need to activate it). But it will be difficult to keep her in the Orgy for long because her CON is Significant and her MOR is Minor--her HATE will always eventually overtake her INJU and she'll escape. But you can get like a good 7-10 turns, enough to bring her within range of T3 breaks for sure.

You may want to make sure to trigger Negotiation before Rampancy since it'll be difficult to keep ANGST on Chaos after she's Rampant. So you might break them in a different order if you really want those three breaks: get Miracle and the others, targeting Orgy on CON for 10 turns, then Negotiate Tyrant, then make Chaos Rampant. The fight where you make Chaos go Rampant you may have to keep her surrounded to keep her off of whatever T3 break she faces first (it's likely to be INN). As for relationships, that'll make Miracle hate Chaos (and maybe enough to be Bitter Enemies) but Tyrant and Miracle will get along fine if you take your T3 and T4 breaks in order to make them so--if that's what you want. Personally I like making all my early Forsaken hate each other, because most of them end up being sacrificed eventually as they get replaced by better Forsaken. I also don't do a whole lot of personal training but that's my style.
 
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SuperSkippy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
294
136
Loop 20, after Combat 11:

No change in breaks. It's kind of starting to look like I may have an easier time continuing to raise Release's HATE to getting a T3 MOR break than I'll ever have getting the others up into the 100M range. She's at 350M Fear, while I'm unable to get Testament into two-digit PLEA.

For Day 12 I'll again send out Metalhead and back her with 175EE. Moo is weak to EXPO so this should be a fairly effective combat round.

OK, I'm either missing something, or there's a bug, or something isn't displaying correctly. Here's the situation:
1715435802028.png

But Testament shouldn't be using her ability to help Release right now:
1715435856186.png
I'll post a save in case you need to test something CSdev . It should be "in2"--the first slot.

Well, next turn the number of turns only went down by 1 despite the message. So it may just be a display bug, because I do see how Testament was helping the previous combat turn when I had Moo Surrounded.

After Combat 12:
More progress from Release, who is now at 579M FEAR. I can get her to 1G at this rate, but I don't know how quickly I'll be able to send someone else out to convert her, or how rapidly she'll do the Fear move. Species reference states:

Slaughter replaced with Ego Murder
This move can only be used while Surrounded
Increase HATE level by 1, then forbid the player from using Surround-related actions for HATE turns
Progresses Impregnation effectiveness by 20% times HATE level
So I think I can progress this really fast.

Moo is weak to HATE, so let's try Metalhead again.

After Combat 13: Release is up to 659M FEAR. Moo is weak to PLEA, so I send Lapdog (formerly Victory) out for a stroll.

1715445945305.png
Her cost is 34EE, so if I don't get a lot of extra from sending her I'll just send Final EXPOdia again.

After Combat 14: Release is almost there at 863M FEAR. If I can earn that T3 Break in the next few combats, based on my understanding of when she uses the move, it should pretty much fill up the same fight. I only need 400% PE to have it ready to break. I don't know if I'll have enough EE to be able to send my best Breeder to improve her HATE damage, and it doesn't really seem like I'll get enough on anyone else for any T3 breaks. But once I get those T3 breaks I can focus on Tempting the others to make the final battle easier and gain me extra EE (should be able to get +40/day) After next combat is the military base, which won't give me any bonus EE.

I don't think I can get Testament there, even though last combat was very PLEA heavy it only got her to 12.8M DISG.

Moo is weak to CON so this is either a Bloodlust battle or another Metalhead. Trying to conserve EE, I send out Metalhead.

After Combat 16: Success!
1715448878969.png

So, what I'd like to eventually do with Release is stack on another damage modifier. Within Breeders, there's only +victim HATE. I have 3 that fulfill that requirement:
1715449499994.png


1715449544478.png

1715449579566.png

I have 3 days before the Final Battle. If I Orgy/Tempt/Tempt every day, I get +40EE per day, That plus the 144 I still have doens't allow me afford Hatequeen's massive cost. I really should try to get an Undead that replaces her. But, I can easily afford Assplodey. I haven't introduced her yet, because my hope is that I'm eventually able to get some T4 CON breaks with her and bring her down to a reasonable but high cost in the 20s somewhere. She has a +self buff on CON damage, so she'll be my panic "I need an Orgy now" button. But, I haven't actually gotten those T4 CON breaks because I've been fighting Angels.

Anyway, let's try to build up that 400% PE for HATE! We'll need, obviously, Metalhead, since MOO is weak to EXPO.

In Combat 16:

I'm fortunate to find that the Ego Murder selfish tactic is set up so that it can't be immediately overlapped, unlike the similar Mating Dance from the Animalistic which they can use to make their comrades invincible by using the turn it would expire. This balances out somewhat the fact that they can do this move while surrounded, which makes it impossible to stop (unless you're not surrounding her).

After Combat 16:
1715451313185.png


Testament spams the move as often as she can, as I kind of expected her to do. So, all that's left to do to finish up this Loop is:

1) Total Break Release's MOR, getting that damage bonus to stack on the 200% she gets to all damage (Nice!)
2) Continue to Tempt Testament and Moo to bring their Final Battle requirements down and make them easier
3) Plan for Moo being on DIG weakness day 20. If I'm not able to get her PLEA high enough I think she'll escape instead of suiciding, but I'd like to have her if possible.

So, updates will be short from here because there's not much more to do. Testament and Moo take a PLEA of 281K in the final battle to convert. I'll go ahead and set Assplodey to the Breeder. After that I'll make Metalhead the Trainer so she won't Tantrum, and that'll be Day 17.

Well, shit--should have checked this, but Assplodey and Ghast can't be Breeders. Assplodey was converted through Negotiation so her Hostility isn't high enough, and Ghast was converted through no distortions at all so her Obedience isn't high enough. I do have Haterape that can give a +21% HATE bonus, though, and that'll be good enough.

Combat 17: I notice another small bug CSdev

It looks like the Forsaken can still use Ego Murder while being Captured. I would have thought based on the description of what's going on that they'd have to be Surrounded instead. Also when they do this there's no text indicating that they've used the move, but the move shows in effect on the next combat turn. Here's some game output:







Code:
Round 1
Evacuation: 0/250 (0%)       [=-                  ]
Extermination: 0/757 (0%)    [                    ]

The desperate battle continues...

[ANGEL] Release: Opening Level 0 vs. Defense Level 1

Haterape: Ready to capture target

Ego Murder: Cannot send new commands to Thralls for 5 turns

Release is fighting alone!

  FEAR:     0 [Lv 0] x4(HATE)
  DISG:     0 [Lv 0] x2(HATE)
  PAIN:     0 [Lv 0] x2(HATE)
  SHAM:     0 [Lv 0] x2(HATE)

  HATE:   820 [Lv 1] x2(HATE) x1/2(highest Circ.) = x1 Total
  PLEA:    80 [Lv 0] x2(HATE) x1/2(highest Circ.) = x1 Total
  INJU:    60 [Lv 0] x2(HATE) x1/2(highest Circ.) = x1 Total
  EXPO:    60 [Lv 0] x2(HATE) x1/2(highest Circ.) = x1 Total

Choose your action.  Haterape can capture Release for 7 rounds.

---

Release doesn't take notice of Haterape quickly enough for the latter's liking, and so Haterape decides to draw her attention with the screams of murdered civilians.  Release turns her head, notices the slaughter, and roars with rage and charges forward.

FEAR [-----'''''] (    0 +   592 =   592) nervous eyes
DISG [-'''''''''] (    0 +   179 =   179) lips curled in distaste
PAIN [--''''''''] (    0 +   273 =   273) wincing in pain
SHAM [--''''''''] (    0 +   230 =   230) face downturned

HATE [~~~~~~~~~-] (  820 +  9179 =  9999) strong hatred for the Demons
PLEA [''''''''  ] (   80         =    80) not really turned on
INJU [''''''    ] (   60         =    60) only superficial injuries
EXPO [''''''    ] (   60         =    60) clothes slightly disheveled

HATE up!  As Haterape continues to provoke Release, her teeth are clenched in rage.  Her composure completely lost, she's too caught up in the moment to calm down.

"I recognize you.  I can't believe you gave it all up to serve the Demon Lord."

"My name is Haterape, and I'm the one who will kill you!  Don't underestimate the power of Master!"

---



Round 2
Evacuation: 20/250 (8%)      [#==                 ]
Extermination: 0/757 (0%)    [                    ]

The desperate battle continues...

[ANGEL] Release: Captured for 7 more turns

Haterape: Busy with Release

Ego Murder: Cannot send new commands to Thralls for 4 turns

Release is fighting alone!

  FEAR:   592 [Lv 1] x16(HATE)
  DISG:   179 [Lv 1] x4(HATE)
  PAIN:   273 [Lv 1] x4(HATE)
  SHAM:   230 [Lv 1] x4(HATE)

  HATE:  9999 [Lv 2] x4(HATE) x1/4(highest Circ.) = x1 Total
  PLEA:    80 [Lv 0] x4(HATE) x1/4(highest Circ.) = x1 Total
  INJU:    60 [Lv 0] x4(HATE) x1/4(highest Circ.) = x1 Total
  EXPO:    60 [Lv 0] x4(HATE) x1/4(highest Circ.) = x1 Total

Choose your action.

---

While Haterape acts as a distraction, Release is suddenly grabbed from behind by a powerful humanoid Demon with a huge cock - the Demon hand-selected by Haterape for the task of impregnating Release.  Before Release can escape, Haterape steps forward, wraps her fingers around the Demon's shaft and uses her other hand to pull Release's g-string aside...

Total Morality Break

Knowing full well what will happen to her if she's impregnated by the Demon Lord, Release can't wipe the terrified expression off her face as she feels the Demon's member start to push inside her.  She can't even manage to put up the paper-thin facade of eager bloodlust.  She realizes too late that her willingness to murder is what weakened her soul's defenses to the point that this is even possible.

Haterape forces the Chosen down onto the Demon's cock, and Release's violent struggling only impales her onto it more deeply.  Haterape has the Demon fuck Release savagely, clawing at her chest and back while Haterape whispers taunting words into her ear.

FEAR [~~--------] (  592 +  2001 =  2593) shaking with fear
DISG [----''''''] (  179 +   268 =   447) lips curled in distaste
PAIN [-------'''] (  273 +   457 =   730) wincing in pain
SHAM [------''''] (  230 +   371 =   601) face downturned

HATE [=~~~~~~~~~] ( 9999 +  8810 = 18.8k) overpowering hatred for the world
PLEA [''''''''  ] (   80         =    80) not really turned on
INJU [''''''    ] (   60         =    60) only superficial injuries
EXPO [''''''    ] (   60         =    60) clothes slightly disheveled

HATE up!  Unable to contain her emotions anymore, Release gives in to her rage and starts trying to lash out.  She just wants this all to be over.

"Hahahah, you hate this!  But you can't stop me!"

"Graaah!"

---



Round 3
Evacuation: 40/250 (16%)     [###=                ]
Extermination: 0/757 (0%)    [                    ]

The desperate battle continues...

[ANGEL] Release: Captured for 6 more turns

Haterape: Busy with Release

Ego Murder: Cannot send new commands to Thralls for 3 turns

Release is fighting alone!

  FEAR:  2593 [Lv 2] x64(HATE)
  DISG:   447 [Lv 1] x8(HATE)
  PAIN:   730 [Lv 1] x8(HATE)
  SHAM:   601 [Lv 1] x8(HATE)

  HATE: 18.8k [Lv 3] x8(HATE) x1/8(highest Circ.) = x1 Total
  PLEA:    80 [Lv 0] x8(HATE) x1/8(highest Circ.) = x1 Total
  INJU:    60 [Lv 0] x8(HATE) x1/8(highest Circ.) = x1 Total
  EXPO:    60 [Lv 0] x8(HATE) x1/8(highest Circ.) = x1 Total

Choose your action.
Notice that Round 2 Ego Murder shows up but there's no indication it was used Round 1. Additionally, the # of turns is wrong: In turn 2 it shows it being active for 4 turns. But her HATE is only level 2 after the Turn 1 Capture. In my opinion, they shouldn't be using this move when Captured as it's a move that fights Thralls specifically.

It doesn't seem like it happens a later time when I have Release captured, so maybe it's something different that happens for Turn 1 of Combat?

But, I do get my Total Morality Break, as above. I'll also try to Tempt this fight. Edit: Not able to Tempt. But Day 18 I should be able to as Moo is weak to PLEA.

Send out Final EXPOdia.

Kind of skipping to the Final Battle here because there isn't much else that's interesting to talk about.

Final Battle: Buy up through Empathy, since Moo and Testament have Unbreakable Friendship. Send out Final EXPOdia since Moo is weak to EXPO, should enable me to get a small Orgy off of that to convert Release. Then maybe her Tempt will be enough to pull Testament up. Need to not attack Release's HATE or she will start using her special move, then I won't be able to control the fight. But as long as she stays below Level 2 HATE she shouldn't use it as it doesn't give her any benefit.

Eventually, the right sequence of moves gets me to a one-turn Orgy, converting Release. Next turn Extermination is finished, but I can Capture Testament, then Tempt her, which converts her after only a few turns. Then all that remains to see is if I can get Moo--- and yes!

Moo giggles and closes her eyes as she prepares for Final EXPOdia to make her cum like always, only to open them back up and blink in confusion when she stops. Final EXPOdia asks her whether she'd really be happy never feeling the Thralls' caresses again, and she has to confess that she wouldn't.

Resolve Broken

Overcome by emotion, Moo is no longer able to maintain her Chosen transformation. Her clothes fade away, and she's briefly startled, but then she smiles with gratitude when Final EXPOdia hands her a Thrall's coat, and she feels oddly happy as she begins the walk back to the hive.

"I belong to you now... I think I've belonged to you for a long time..."

"And so our ranks continue to grow..."
So now the new ones need names, and their names should reflect what I want them to do.

Here's Release:
Code:
Release
Real name: Goto Tsubasa

Stamina: 100.0%
Motivation: 100.0%

Expertise
HATE: 30.0k (x1.060 dmg) (x1.210 dmg from Haterape's impregnation)
PLEA: 20.0k (x1.000 dmg)
INJU: 30.0k (x1.060 dmg)
EXPO: 20.0k (x1.000 dmg)
Combat Style: Sadistic (100% HATE/INJU)
Attacks without mercy, enjoying the target's suffering.  Weakens most targets significantly, making further attacks even easier.

Training Plan: None
Remains idle when at full Stamina

Trait: Angel Forsaken
Provides double bonus when Spared (under Retire menu)

Trait: Dissociative Identity (Unleashed Angel)
While consenting, training can only increase Disgrace.  +200% damage

Trait: Personal Paradise
Fully restore Motivation every day and deal +10% damage (from Testament)

First Impregnation: Haterape (+21.0% HATE damage)

Hostility: 64% (Pretending to be hateful toward humanity)
Deviancy: 17% (Pretending to fetishize aberrant actions)
Obedience: 28% (Pretending to be eager to obey)
Disgrace: 18% (Still somewhat respected)
I could make maximal use of just her HATE multiplier , but I've kind of already got a Forsaken built for HATE orgies. I think it's more interesting to use her doing both HATE and INJU damage, which means she'll basically be a better Cataclysm that doesn't sap Motivation from everyone else. She'll need to cost a lot less, though: Her cost of 287EE is way too high to be usable damaging Forsaken. Cataclysm costs 51EE and her Deployment strength is 114%. Her bonuses, I think, multiply together, so hers are (1.226[Expertise])(1.425[Scarring Breeder])(1.75 [Devil])(1.5[Averted])(1.14[Deployment Strength]) = 5.23 or so.

So if I wanted an Angel just as strong, she'd have about the same Expertise, only 1.21 from Scarring Breeder, 3.0(Averted Angel) * 1.226 (assumed Expertise)
So she'd need deployment strength of 5.23/1.226 or roughly 117%, so roughly the same cost. That means 30% more Disgrace for her, but once she's there I can free or sacrifice my Devil Chosen.

So, if I'm feeling like that's where I want her, she's going to be renamed Wrath.

Testament gives a boost to Wrath and that's her only legit purpose, so she's now wrath's vibrator. Moo is just kind of worthless... so she's the new beefcow. Maybe she'll get lucky and Splendor will offer me something I want for her freedom.

And that's how Loop 20 goes with 2 Angels.

E: Actually Splendor offered me a pretty good deal for Releasing Haterape (don't increase difficulty next Loop), so now I'm thinking I'll just let Wrath train HATE and replace her on the roster.
 
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Doctor Shark

Member
Nov 7, 2019
322
699
Yeah, I'm not sure actually, since each T1 selfish tactic affects two stats, how it decides which one to use first. As someone else said below, when I find myself in this circumstance I'll hit other stats. Often then my next Surround will allow me to break the stat I'm actually looking to break.



I worry less about breaking cores/minors/friendships/enemies than I do about what I see when I click that Forsaken Preview button. If they've got good Punishers that help me build other Forsaken I generally want to pick Aversion or Negotiation (or maybe Megalomania) and if they've got Punishers that build themselves up I want to go Tempted (or get my one Rampant Forsaken). I try not to be in a situation where I need the EE from Core Breaks if I can help it. I look at those as soon as I get Psychic Reading and try to figure out what the best possible combination of Distortion and Total Breaks would be with my current roster to make the single strongest Forsaken I can.

Rampancy doesn't zero out trauma exactly, it's just that when you first trigger it she's not likely to have that much Trauma on her. The Rampancy downtime is -1G all Trauma, -10G Angst. You can get them above these values of trauma through careful manipulation of their Circumstances and consideration of their Vulnerabilities. You can do a lot of INJU damage before starting the Orgy, and start the Orgy with Sodomize so her HATE goes up more slowly (once she's got Rampancy active, obviously you first need to activate it). But it will be difficult to keep her in the Orgy for long because her CON is Significant and her MOR is Minor--her HATE will always eventually overtake her INJU and she'll escape. But you can get like a good 7-10 turns, enough to bring her within range of T3 breaks for sure.

You may want to make sure to trigger Negotiation before Rampancy since it'll be difficult to keep ANGST on Chaos after she's Rampant. So you might break them in a different order if you really want those three breaks: get Miracle and the others, targeting Orgy on CON for 10 turns, then Negotiate Tyrant, then make Chaos Rampant. The fight where you make Chaos go Rampant you may have to keep her surrounded to keep her off of whatever T3 break she faces first (it's likely to be INN). As for relationships, that'll make Miracle hate Chaos (and maybe enough to be Bitter Enemies) but Tyrant and Miracle will get along fine if you take your T3 and T4 breaks in order to make them so--if that's what you want. Personally I like making all my early Forsaken hate each other, because most of them end up being sacrificed eventually as they get replaced by better Forsaken. I also don't do a whole lot of personal training but that's my style.
Thank you, I appreciate the very helpful reply. I love this game and want to fight superior species and bosses but everything after Loop 1 is mind boggling to me so I'm doing my best to learn more.

Should I be always trying to get one Tempt or Rampant in L1 so that I have a breaker for L2 or is that less important than high quality Forsaken?
 

CSdev

Member
Game Developer
Oct 14, 2020
169
558
OK yeah, that's why I don't use Animalistic Tempted, and stop using standard Tempted as soon as possible too. They are also really difficult to train Expertise since they start with high Deviancy, and their naturally low Obedience makes some training actions unusable--I might start with something that modifies their Expertise gain/Consent modifier, especially if you would like to see them being used outside of the Tempt Defiler as even training them out of PLEA/EXPO is a challenge (because of the 10k extra Expertise they start with in those). These Forsaken should really be up for anything that isn't outright painful because of the nature of their conversion--maybe a bonus to Consent for non-Obedience actions, and a bonus to Expertise for all training actions? And/Or a different bonus if you train their Obedience past 40%, like some kind of bonus to gaining Expertise? That might go a bit further to making them more generally useful.
The rework probably won't be quite so drastic. I think that the Animalistic and Devil Forsaken gradually returning back down below 40% Obedience is enough to blunt the edge of the penalty, regular Forsaken are outgrown quickly enough that I don't mind letting it stay harsh on them, and of course Angels and Undead don't have the Obedience limit in the first place. The reward for dealing with it just needs to be more interesting and a bit stronger.
There's no real notification of what Trauma the Angels absorb and how that works. But it looks like: Release absorbs from Moo, then Testament absorbs from both Moo and Release.
This is correct, but I wasn't sure how to explicitly get it across to the player without just vomiting a bunch of numbers on the screen. And if you manage to switch which Angel has the highest ANGST, then they'll swap their roles here too.

OK, either I'm not understanding something or it's a bug. Here's combat, round 24.

View attachment 3623453

Now, if Moo is escaping at triple speed, that means both Release and Testament are using their abilities on her. So far so good.

But then why do I see this at the start of round 25?
View attachment 3623454
If Release is using her ability, shouldn't she still be surrounded for 5 turns and Frozen?

Or does the fact that Testament is using her ability help Release, even though Testament has lower Angst and I see this on her Examine?

View attachment 3623456

Just trying to make sure I understand how it works. If I surrounded Testament right now, I'd expect her Surrounds to be going down at double speed (because Release is helping her escape), Moo to be still ticking down triple speed, and Release would be??? Going down one per turn from Testament helping or frozen? Not sure and would like clarification CSdev.
The way this works is intended and consistent, but I wasn't sure how to concisely explain it to the player. Basically, Angels can switch their ability on or off. While it's off, they're treated just like normal Chosen. While it's on, both allies escape faster. So, while Release and Moo are surrounded, Testament turns on her ability to help Moo, and Release just happens to benefit as well.

If all three are Surrounded, then the two Angels will both be using their abilities for the third Chosen. This means that the third Chosen escapes at triple speed, and the two Angels escape at normal speed (the stalled escape from their own ability is balanced out by the faster escape from their Angel partner's ability).
Also I'm not sure I like this, but maybe it's working the way you want it to:
View attachment 3623457
Thematically, it makes sense that I can't target Release at all if she's giving everything she's got to flee the battlefield. But if she's doing that, she can't really be helping Testament escape, right? Like, she's described in this way:

View attachment 3623458

So, I'm not sure how she's helping Testament escape. This is at least partially a thematic thing more than a mechanical thing of course and you can handle it whatever way keeps it how you feel it should be balanced. It makes sense to me that Angels that are catatonic might not want to absorb the Trauma of their fellows and that a panicked fleeing Angel wouldn't be able to help her comrades escape, but if it needs to be that way for balance then you can write some explanation. Basically if she's still helping with the combat I feel I should be able to target her with at least standard attacks :)
The flavor explanation is that the Angels' abilities don't actually result from their own willful actions. The surround duration effects are caused by the Angels' unearthly beauty causing the Thralls to ignore your orders and just generally act unwise, chasing them around even when there's not actually any opportunity to Surround them. The trauma absorption effect is a psychic thing where the Angels soak up any nearby unhappiness in order to turn any ground beneath their feet into a de facto enclave of Heaven.

I guess it could be funny to write some alternate flavor text where selfish or psychologically-damaged Angels are doing their best to be selfish, but they just can't help but brighten the lives of those around them.

Gameplay-wise, I just don't want to add more one-off exceptions to rules. It's better to keep things consistent when possible. If I were to weaken Angel abilities, I'd want to do so in more of a broad way that applies even before Distortions come into play.
What's the priority system for T1 breaks? I have a Chosen with Core Morality / Minor Dignity and no breaks. I've used Barrier Jammer to start her with 10k Hate but when I go to do an opening action, Grind will always break Dignity and the other three actions won't break anything until I've broken Dignity at which point Pummel will break Morality.

Is it because Dignity is Minor or is there a priority system for the breaks regardless of vulnerabilities?
When Chosen are deciding whether to use their T1 Break abilities, they look at the expected damage they'll reach in each circumstance, and if it's higher than a certain value (which is close to 10k), then the excess is added as a "weight" for that the moves that counteract that damage. So, if HATE is going to go above roughly 10k, then the difference is added as weight to Violence and Hiding. The base weight for Minor Vulnerabilities is higher than for Core ones (as the Chosen sacrifice the things they don't care about in order to protect those they do).

However, Violence can also pick up weight from INJU damage, and Hiding can also pick up weight from EXPO damage. So, if you're also dealing enough INJU damage to approach 10k, then that can push the Chosen to accept Morality Break before Dignity Break.
To CSDev, and anyone else who's managed to produce character portraits for this game:

What's the trick to generating a set of different expressions and/or poses for the same character?

I'm more than able to create a single image that's up-to-par, but generating a set of 9 unique expressions for a single character has been eluding me thus far.

I play around with LoRA's, ControlNet (though it only half-works), various models (and merging them), I use ADetailer to improve faces/gentials/etc. but I still feel like there's something vital I'm missing.

Any little bit helps, but a tutorial of some kind would be a godsend.

If there isn't one, maybe that's something that could be useful in order to expand upon the selection of Chosen/Forsaken portraits in the future?


"Proof of concept" provided, this is an example of what I managed to pull out of my ass last time I gave this a go:
I'd recommend getting comfortable with inpainting. This is easiest if you're using the AUTOMATIC1111 webui, but ComfyUI can do it too. Don't just select the whole face for inpainting (at least at first) - a denoising strength high enough to change the expression will also be high enough to change the fundamental features of the face and make it look like someone else. You actually have to think about what the expression should look like and just inpaint the parts that need to change. Then, a second img2img pass at lower denoising strength can help smooth over any inconsistencies at the boundary.

Ideally, you should also be comfortable with doing manual drawing to get the image as close to what you're imagining as you can before turning it over to the AI. There are limits to what you can achieve with prompting alone.
OK, I'm either missing something, or there's a bug, or something isn't displaying correctly. Here's the situation:
View attachment 3624328

But Testament shouldn't be using her ability to help Release right now:
View attachment 3624330
I'll post a save in case you need to test something CSdev . It should be "in2"--the first slot.

Well, next turn the number of turns only went down by 1 despite the message. So it may just be a display bug, because I do see how Testament was helping the previous combat turn when I had Moo Surrounded.
Yep, that's a display bug. The game isn't refreshing whether the Angels' abilities are on or off until it's time to actually process the turn. I'll have that fixed in the next version.
Combat 17: I notice another small bug CSdev

It looks like the Forsaken can still use Ego Murder while being Captured. I would have thought based on the description of what's going on that they'd have to be Surrounded instead. Also when they do this there's no text indicating that they've used the move, but the move shows in effect on the next combat turn. Here's some game output:







Code:
Round 1
Evacuation: 0/250 (0%)       [=-                  ]
Extermination: 0/757 (0%)    [                    ]

The desperate battle continues...

[ANGEL] Release: Opening Level 0 vs. Defense Level 1

Haterape: Ready to capture target

Ego Murder: Cannot send new commands to Thralls for 5 turns

Release is fighting alone!

  FEAR:     0 [Lv 0] x4(HATE)
  DISG:     0 [Lv 0] x2(HATE)
  PAIN:     0 [Lv 0] x2(HATE)
  SHAM:     0 [Lv 0] x2(HATE)

  HATE:   820 [Lv 1] x2(HATE) x1/2(highest Circ.) = x1 Total
  PLEA:    80 [Lv 0] x2(HATE) x1/2(highest Circ.) = x1 Total
  INJU:    60 [Lv 0] x2(HATE) x1/2(highest Circ.) = x1 Total
  EXPO:    60 [Lv 0] x2(HATE) x1/2(highest Circ.) = x1 Total

Choose your action.  Haterape can capture Release for 7 rounds.

---

Release doesn't take notice of Haterape quickly enough for the latter's liking, and so Haterape decides to draw her attention with the screams of murdered civilians.  Release turns her head, notices the slaughter, and roars with rage and charges forward.

FEAR [-----'''''] (    0 +   592 =   592) nervous eyes
DISG [-'''''''''] (    0 +   179 =   179) lips curled in distaste
PAIN [--''''''''] (    0 +   273 =   273) wincing in pain
SHAM [--''''''''] (    0 +   230 =   230) face downturned

HATE [~~~~~~~~~-] (  820 +  9179 =  9999) strong hatred for the Demons
PLEA [''''''''  ] (   80         =    80) not really turned on
INJU [''''''    ] (   60         =    60) only superficial injuries
EXPO [''''''    ] (   60         =    60) clothes slightly disheveled

HATE up!  As Haterape continues to provoke Release, her teeth are clenched in rage.  Her composure completely lost, she's too caught up in the moment to calm down.

"I recognize you.  I can't believe you gave it all up to serve the Demon Lord."

"My name is Haterape, and I'm the one who will kill you!  Don't underestimate the power of Master!"

---



Round 2
Evacuation: 20/250 (8%)      [#==                 ]
Extermination: 0/757 (0%)    [                    ]

The desperate battle continues...

[ANGEL] Release: Captured for 7 more turns

Haterape: Busy with Release

Ego Murder: Cannot send new commands to Thralls for 4 turns

Release is fighting alone!

  FEAR:   592 [Lv 1] x16(HATE)
  DISG:   179 [Lv 1] x4(HATE)
  PAIN:   273 [Lv 1] x4(HATE)
  SHAM:   230 [Lv 1] x4(HATE)

  HATE:  9999 [Lv 2] x4(HATE) x1/4(highest Circ.) = x1 Total
  PLEA:    80 [Lv 0] x4(HATE) x1/4(highest Circ.) = x1 Total
  INJU:    60 [Lv 0] x4(HATE) x1/4(highest Circ.) = x1 Total
  EXPO:    60 [Lv 0] x4(HATE) x1/4(highest Circ.) = x1 Total

Choose your action.

---

While Haterape acts as a distraction, Release is suddenly grabbed from behind by a powerful humanoid Demon with a huge cock - the Demon hand-selected by Haterape for the task of impregnating Release.  Before Release can escape, Haterape steps forward, wraps her fingers around the Demon's shaft and uses her other hand to pull Release's g-string aside...

Total Morality Break

Knowing full well what will happen to her if she's impregnated by the Demon Lord, Release can't wipe the terrified expression off her face as she feels the Demon's member start to push inside her.  She can't even manage to put up the paper-thin facade of eager bloodlust.  She realizes too late that her willingness to murder is what weakened her soul's defenses to the point that this is even possible.

Haterape forces the Chosen down onto the Demon's cock, and Release's violent struggling only impales her onto it more deeply.  Haterape has the Demon fuck Release savagely, clawing at her chest and back while Haterape whispers taunting words into her ear.

FEAR [~~--------] (  592 +  2001 =  2593) shaking with fear
DISG [----''''''] (  179 +   268 =   447) lips curled in distaste
PAIN [-------'''] (  273 +   457 =   730) wincing in pain
SHAM [------''''] (  230 +   371 =   601) face downturned

HATE [=~~~~~~~~~] ( 9999 +  8810 = 18.8k) overpowering hatred for the world
PLEA [''''''''  ] (   80         =    80) not really turned on
INJU [''''''    ] (   60         =    60) only superficial injuries
EXPO [''''''    ] (   60         =    60) clothes slightly disheveled

HATE up!  Unable to contain her emotions anymore, Release gives in to her rage and starts trying to lash out.  She just wants this all to be over.

"Hahahah, you hate this!  But you can't stop me!"

"Graaah!"

---



Round 3
Evacuation: 40/250 (16%)     [###=                ]
Extermination: 0/757 (0%)    [                    ]

The desperate battle continues...

[ANGEL] Release: Captured for 6 more turns

Haterape: Busy with Release

Ego Murder: Cannot send new commands to Thralls for 3 turns

Release is fighting alone!

  FEAR:  2593 [Lv 2] x64(HATE)
  DISG:   447 [Lv 1] x8(HATE)
  PAIN:   730 [Lv 1] x8(HATE)
  SHAM:   601 [Lv 1] x8(HATE)

  HATE: 18.8k [Lv 3] x8(HATE) x1/8(highest Circ.) = x1 Total
  PLEA:    80 [Lv 0] x8(HATE) x1/8(highest Circ.) = x1 Total
  INJU:    60 [Lv 0] x8(HATE) x1/8(highest Circ.) = x1 Total
  EXPO:    60 [Lv 0] x8(HATE) x1/8(highest Circ.) = x1 Total

Choose your action.
Notice that Round 2 Ego Murder shows up but there's no indication it was used Round 1. Additionally, the # of turns is wrong: In turn 2 it shows it being active for 4 turns. But her HATE is only level 2 after the Turn 1 Capture. In my opinion, they shouldn't be using this move when Captured as it's a move that fights Thralls specifically.

It doesn't seem like it happens a later time when I have Release captured, so maybe it's something different that happens for Turn 1 of Combat?
What seems to have happened here is that the Ego Murder duration wasn't reset at the end of the previous fight. Sorry for not catching this bug sooner, since it seems like it could be a real pain in the ass. I'll have it fixed in R54.
And that's how Loop 20 goes with 2 Angels.
Thank you for sharing it! It's interesting how the Angels' abilities can still be so easily bypassed by an early Forsaken blitz. The surround disruption doesn't stop you from getting Breaks directly with your Forsaken, and an early Distortion can give you enough EE that you don't care too much about the trauma absorption decreasing your EE generation. Getting T3 Breaks is still tough, but if the Chosen are Distorted anyway, then you can win without them.

If I were going to tweak Angel balance based on this, then I'd want to make their abilities a bit more resilient to early Forsaken use, while maybe toning down the trauma absorption a bit. But allowing the Angel ability to also affect Capture duration would be way, way too strong. Maybe it's fine to leave it as it is and just say that a loop with Angels is "fairly easy to beat, but hard to get good Punisher value from." That still makes them pretty scary in the long term for a player who's looking to ramp up their power further for the endgame.
 

SuperSkippy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
294
136
The rework probably won't be quite so drastic. I think that the Animalistic and Devil Forsaken gradually returning back down below 40% Obedience is enough to blunt the edge of the penalty, regular Forsaken are outgrown quickly enough that I don't mind letting it stay harsh on them, and of course Angels and Undead don't have the Obedience limit in the first place. The reward for dealing with it just needs to be more interesting and a bit stronger.

The way this works is intended and consistent, but I wasn't sure how to concisely explain it to the player. Basically, Angels can switch their ability on or off. While it's off, they're treated just like normal Chosen. While it's on, both allies escape faster. So, while Release and Moo are surrounded, Testament turns on her ability to help Moo, and Release just happens to benefit as well.

If all three are Surrounded, then the two Angels will both be using their abilities for the third Chosen. This means that the third Chosen escapes at triple speed, and the two Angels escape at normal speed (the stalled escape from their own ability is balanced out by the faster escape from their Angel partner's ability).
Yeah, by asking myself questions and making predictions I did eventually get to this realization.

The flavor explanation is that the Angels' abilities don't actually result from their own willful actions. The surround duration effects are caused by the Angels' unearthly beauty causing the Thralls to ignore your orders and just generally act unwise, chasing them around even when there's not actually any opportunity to Surround them. The trauma absorption effect is a psychic thing where the Angels soak up any nearby unhappiness in order to turn any ground beneath their feet into a de facto enclave of Heaven.

I guess it could be funny to write some alternate flavor text where selfish or psychologically-damaged Angels are doing their best to be selfish, but they just can't help but brighten the lives of those around them.

Gameplay-wise, I just don't want to add more one-off exceptions to rules. It's better to keep things consistent when possible. If I were to weaken Angel abilities, I'd want to do so in more of a broad way that applies even before Distortions come into play.
Sure, I get the idea of keeping it consistent with whatever explanation works, just wanted to share that it feels a bit bad right now with one status showing them panicked fleeing and another status showing they're still helping their allies escape. Just a flavor thing, mostly.

When Chosen are deciding whether to use their T1 Break abilities, they look at the expected damage they'll reach in each circumstance, and if it's higher than a certain value (which is close to 10k), then the excess is added as a "weight" for that the moves that counteract that damage. So, if HATE is going to go above roughly 10k, then the difference is added as weight to Violence and Hiding. The base weight for Minor Vulnerabilities is higher than for Core ones (as the Chosen sacrifice the things they don't care about in order to protect those they do).

However, Violence can also pick up weight from INJU damage, and Hiding can also pick up weight from EXPO damage. So, if you're also dealing enough INJU damage to approach 10k, then that can push the Chosen to accept Morality Break before Dignity Break.
This makes it clear to me what's been happening, so thanks! As I said to the person asking the question, if the order of the breaks is important to me, I just make sure to hit other circumstances and often on the next Surround the one I actually wanted to break will do so.

Yep, that's a display bug. The game isn't refreshing whether the Angels' abilities are on or off until it's time to actually process the turn. I'll have that fixed in the next version.

What seems to have happened here is that the Ego Murder duration wasn't reset at the end of the previous fight. Sorry for not catching this bug sooner, since it seems like it could be a real pain in the ass. I'll have it fixed in R54.
Eh, I mostly Capture at the beginning of a fight so I can see how it's easy to miss. Even I had to scroll back up and see "hey when did the Ego Murder start?" because I released the Angel early to try to get her to Ego Murder again (which I didn't actually need to do, she'll repeat it just fine while surrounded).

Thank you for sharing it! It's interesting how the Angels' abilities can still be so easily bypassed by an early Forsaken blitz. The surround disruption doesn't stop you from getting Breaks directly with your Forsaken, and an early Distortion can give you enough EE that you don't care too much about the trauma absorption decreasing your EE generation. Getting T3 Breaks is still tough, but if the Chosen are Distorted anyway, then you can win without them.

If I were going to tweak Angel balance based on this, then I'd want to make their abilities a bit more resilient to early Forsaken use, while maybe toning down the trauma absorption a bit. But allowing the Angel ability to also affect Capture duration would be way, way too strong. Maybe it's fine to leave it as it is and just say that a loop with Angels is "fairly easy to beat, but hard to get good Punisher value from." That still makes them pretty scary in the long term for a player who's looking to ramp up their power further for the endgame.
Yeah I think it's fine where they're at. Where I'd be concerned is--can Angels and Devils mix in a loop? I don't think I've seen that offered before but it seems like that'd be a damn-near impossible combination. The Angel would absorb Angst from the Devil, lowering the minimum damage the Devil takes, and raising her own Angst, further raising the damage resistance on the Devil.

Edit: I just got offered one. I don't think it's doable based on how I see it working.
Kobe
Damage Mitigation: 37% per level
Preparedness: Final Battle on Day 20
Luxuries: 8540% Trauma resolution speed
Elites: 1 Devil, 1 Animalistic, 1 Superior Chosen
87 Influence
New Item: Inevitability
While Activated, gain -1 Evil Energy per day, but deal 10x damage with Threaten, Slime, Attack, and Taunt. Does not function during final battle.

Kawasaki
Damage Mitigation: 23% per level
Preparedness: Final Battle on Day 23
Luxuries: 2725% Trauma resolution speed
Elites: 1 Angel, 1 Devil, 1 Animalistic Chosen
99 Influence
New Item: Narrative Pocketwatch
The Evil Energy cost of Imago Quickening is removed.
 
Last edited:
Nov 9, 2022
20
53
To CSDev, and anyone else who's managed to produce character portraits for this game:

What's the trick to generating a set of different expressions and/or poses for the same character?

[snip]
As CSDev said, I've heard good things about inpainting, but only found the need to use it for one portrait in Patience.
Keeping the same seed while only changing the specifics of the prompt for the expression worked pretty much fine for me.

The portraits from Patience all have the metadata intact, so you can load those up and look at the prompts I used for various expressions, although like... the first half were made with NovelAI, and the second half with A1111, so they're a little different.

If you'd rather do it the easy way, you can download ComfyUI, and just use this workflow to generate the complete portrait set from your first image. It's a little rough, and out of date, but I don't have my refined version at the moment. I'll post that... Soon
 
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SuperSkippy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
294
136
Thank you, I appreciate the very helpful reply. I love this game and want to fight superior species and bosses but everything after Loop 1 is mind boggling to me so I'm doing my best to learn more.

Should I be always trying to get one Tempt or Rampant in L1 so that I have a breaker for L2 or is that less important than high quality Forsaken?
Loop 2 isn't that much harder than Loop 1. It's fine to not have any Forsaken ready to go in Loop 2 and just use what you learned from your first Loop. It's also fine to try out a Forsaken to see what to expect. You'll get best results from one costing somewhere between 4-10 EE and hitting one Circumstance.
 
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SuperSkippy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
294
136
Is Undead Dignity break not implemented or what? I have done EVERYTHING but she still refuses to use her version of striptease!
It's definitely implemented but the circumstances they use it are different. I don't have direct knowledge of this from the code but my experience tells me they use it when they have EXPO level 2 (above 1000) and that they're more likely to use it when allies are taking damage. So treat them like you're building up for a big Orgy and then leave the Undead alone for a round or two with level 2 or higher EXPO. You might reduce her likelihood of using other Tactics by keeping those Circumstances somewhat low on the Undead.
 

McHuman

Member
Nov 8, 2019
399
221
I don't know if it's the game or my computer since I recently got a computer with a higher resolution, but are the portraits super pixelated for anyone else? This is specifically in game, the portrait files themselves are fine.
 

anonimus_bell

Newbie
Jul 18, 2019
36
6
It's definitely implemented but the circumstances they use it are different. I don't have direct knowledge of this from the code but my experience tells me they use it when they have EXPO level 2 (above 1000) and that they're more likely to use it when allies are taking damage. So treat them like you're building up for a big Orgy and then leave the Undead alone for a round or two with level 2 or higher EXPO. You might reduce her likelihood of using other Tactics by keeping those Circumstances somewhat low on the Undead.
I've done that already! She just uses distract instead!
 

Nobody032

Member
Sep 6, 2021
126
30
I've done that already! She just uses distract instead!
Try leaving her alone and instead deal a lot of expo damage to other chosen instead. In my latest loop the undead decided to do it without any damage from me. Brought the expo punisher to 1000% in a single battle.
 

Nobody032

Member
Sep 6, 2021
126
30
So I have to admit I think I spoke too soon about Megalomaniac being "easy" to trigger. Considering that for maximum benifit you have to do multiple second in commands and have to leave the previous one( Which could have quite possibly been one of your better forsaken), I would say it is more balanced than I thought. Especially in long term as the loops get harder. Now that I want to get an Angelic forsaken as second in command since I have found the "Main" Undead forsaken I wanna use, I actually have to play carefully in order to trigger megalomaniac on her because of the Hate/Plea/Expo T3 actions of Angels.
 

fenyx

Member
Jun 16, 2017
142
52
There is something weird happening with my current save:
I have 2 in negotiation path, and another about to trigger level 3 inseminate
Im placing all 3 in an orgy so I can level hypnosis as fast as I can and... the morality breaks in a chosen, it assaults one of the negotiation ones and... IT COUNTS AS HAVING BEEN INSEMINATED BREAKING THE DISTORTION!

It was driving me nuts trying to understand why the distortion was getting broken
 

BigCut

Newbie
Dec 13, 2023
66
69
Started off, and just keeping the seed makes this stuff easy.
I'm using 2 Adetailers for the faces, yolov8n and mediapipe.
The fact that I never made this connection myself is shameful.


00003-(Masterwork,_High_Quality)_80's_anime_superhero_girl_portrait,_(sad),_green_braided_hair...png

Going for an "armored hero" look, for like a Chosen or a Rampage Forsaken or something.

00013-(Masterwork,_High_Quality)_80's_anime_superhero_girl_portrait,_(fear),_green_braided_hai...png
 
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SuperSkippy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
294
136
There is something weird happening with my current save:
I have 2 in negotiation path, and another about to trigger level 3 inseminate
Im placing all 3 in an orgy so I can level hypnosis as fast as I can and... the morality breaks in a chosen, it assaults one of the negotiation ones and... IT COUNTS AS HAVING BEEN INSEMINATED BREAKING THE DISTORTION!

It was driving me nuts trying to understand why the distortion was getting broken
No, that's normal behavior assuming the T3 break in MOR is on the Chosen with Core Morality. You'll need to actually activate the Negotiation distortion first on whichever has minor MOR to avoid this as it's been part of the game since T3 breaks were introduced, even before Distortions. If you do, you'll see an alternate version of the same scene, where things don't quite go so well for the attempted rapist.

So, that means--don't let the one that's got Core MOR do that T3 break. You must keep her surrounded at all times where she might decide to activate it.

On with the current game:

Loop 21 is kind of too boring for a play-by-play. Superior/Animalistic/Devil, without any of them adding very much in terms of new Punishers to my team. Going to make use of the fact that Temptation clears so much Trauma to get the Superior/Animalistic both Tempted, have them at essentially no Trauma, then start an Orgy to break everything before I Tempt the Devil.

Edit: Of course, they won't actually clear their Trauma until the Orgy. I always forget about the Castigation ability. CSdev I should note that there's no Castigation text for the Chosen that were Tempted but unable to do it because of the Devil, unlike the other times that this happens.

But this should be perfectly winnable anyway.
 
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