Java Corrupted Saviors [Release 58] [CSDev]
You're right, there's not much for later. Here's some suggestions for midgame that will get you some T3 Vulnerability Breaks in the low 20s or earlier. I'm going to assume you can reliably generate T2 breaks and not try to hand-hold too much. I'm also not going to talk about Distortions and assume you can do all breaks to all Chosen.
Grab all the 2-cost upgrades.
You need some 5EE upgrades: Intelligence, Nursery Hives, the one that increases Evacuation requirements.
Your eventual goals are Networked Consciousness, Passion Release, Determination, and possibly Genius so that you can get a long Orgy off, which will open up all available T3 breaks.
Since this section of the game is really limited by energy, another goal is to get all the Chosen doing 5EE Downtimes so that you gain 15EE per day. The best way to accomplish this is either with Defiler+ Actions or long Inseminate actions. Inseminate is the best at building up Trauma as it hits both the Circumstances that raise Trauma damage.
You'll be using standard Commanders for most of this with no Suppressors or Defilers. Use two captures and as many turns as you can (up to 6 turns if you have Tomorrow's Newspaper or Genius unlocked).
Your combats will be focused on building up long Insemination or Inseminate+ Actions. This can be accomplished by the following:
First turn--start Pummel.
Second turn--start Grind
Third turn--start Caress
Fourth turn--start Humiliate.
When the second Chosen arrives, Capture them and:
Start Pummel
Start Humiliate
Start Caress or Grind (depending on which hits harder)
At some point during this the third Chosen will probably come in and the first Chosen will leave their capture--ignore this for now.
It should now be turn 8. Go back to the first Chosen and Surround them. You're looking to first target any Circumstances below 1000 (level 2). This is necessary to avoid an unbalanced Circumstance penalty. When the second Chosen is free, Surround her again immediately and target whatever Circumstance you didn't target the first time, and any others below 1000. If you've got all upgrades above, you should be able to still get a third Surround against her as long as Extermination isn't finished.
Pile on your Surround actions aiming to build HATE (or the Circumstance you're targeting for a Defiler+) over 10K on one or both. If you notice that they will come free on the same turn or you find yourself with a free turn, spend a turn hitting the third Chosen with a basic attack so that you can Surround her the final turn and prevent the end of Combat. If one of the Chosen gets above 10k Circ during this second Surround, go ahead and take the action offered if you've got more than 2 turns of Surround remaining as it will help you build up Trauma for a longer final Surround.
Watch the two Chosen that you've Surrounded and see--they should be coming free somewhere around the same turn. If you've managed to get them up to where you can hit them both with a long Defiler+, do that. Otherwise the first Chosen should be ready for a long time Inseminate, or nearly so.
Sometimes you can use standard attacks on the second Chosen while the first is finishing up the second Surround (or vice versa) to build them up to a similar number of Surround turns. Just don't let any of them that are free Regenerate to below 10K Circumstance damage or you'll undo your hard work.
These kinds of Surrounds will generally be what you need to bring you into +5EE Downtimes from each Chosen. Sometimes it can also bring you to T3 breaks, which provide bonus Evil Energy that can really help with these expensive purchases. Either way, these total purchases and prerequisites run around 80EE so you may need to save up for a few days once they're all at 15EE.
Then, once you have all upgrades above, you'll need to send out a 6-turn 3-capture standard Commander and get the Orgy, which requires basically the same tactics but also Capturing the third Chosen when she enters. If you don't have Genius or Tomorrow's Newspaper, adjust the below for 5 turns. This situation varies too much to give a turn-by-turn like above, but some general tips:
Try to start with a Chosen who doesn't have any of her teammates joining Turn 7 (earlier or later is fine), as that's when your Demon will release her.
Here's one possible map through the first 8 turns assuming the second Chosen comes in Turn 5 and doesn't have Core DIG, and the third shows up Turn 6. For Under 1K, pick a Circumstance under 1k. If none are under 1k, pick whatever Circumstance you're targeting for the Orgy.
Code:
1st--Pummel--Grind--Caress--Humiliate-------------------Under 1K--------------------
2nd------------------------------------Humiliate-----------------Pummel-------------
3rd-----------------------------------------------Pummel----------------Grind-CaressYour second Surrounds are focused on getting all Circumstances (possible exception, EXPO on third Chosen may be unnecessary) above 1000 and whatever your targeted Circumstance is above 10K. Surround each one as soon as they're free, unless that would create a situation where all 3 are free at once. Take whatever Defiler actions raise the correct Circumstances.
Your goal is to start the Orgy around the third Surrounds after Extermination finishes. It might last for 6 or more turns if you're careful--this should bring some circumstances to 100M and unlock the first Tier 3 Vulnerability Breaks if they were all still locked.
The above is what I use for Loop 1 and 3. After that point I have at least one good Forsaken that's better at opening up at least one Circumstance than a standard Demon Commander.
Game's hard, man. I don't know how beatable a Devil is without solidly built Forsaken to be honest. Try playing some of the Clash scenarios if you want to get good at winning without your Forsaken. Please note that you basically have to use Forsaken at some point because the Devil's T3 moves are all based around you using them.
I think Devils are a noticeable step in difficulty. I don't know how many players get to that point (I think it's a small percentage but don't have much data for that). Splendor also makes this section of the game very hard if you beat her first. When I commented on the difficulty of this section in the latest patch, CSdev basically said that I picked all the options that made the game as difficult as possible: Splendor first, and as my Second-in-Command, with a trimmed roster due to Warping past a lot of earlier levels . So I don't know what to say other than that there are other choices that make the game a bit easier. You can fight Victory first in Loop 10, and then when you get Splendor you can turn her motivation drain off since you've already beaten another Boss. Or you can plan for how difficult things are with Splendor on your roster and have tons of extra Forsaken around to throw into the Pit or put on Grand Concerts. And, the difficulty may need to be adjusted at some point, I don't know. Currently CSdev is most interested in completing the game by adding planned features--maybe after that they will add an easier mode. Or you can always play with cheats enabled.
I posted a guide of sorts to making powerful Forsaken--the kinds of questions to ask, when to ask them, and specific answers based around one possible set of choices here. Kalloi posted a more general guide here. But the basic idea of building them well is pretty simple--you want to stack on bonuses that are helpful for what that Forsaken can do. An ideal lategame Forsaken looks something like this in the later loops:
Code:
Final EXPOdia (formerly known as Returned Saint Memory)
Real name: Fujimori Rin
Stamina: 23.6%
Motivation: 100.0%
Expertise
HATE: 17.8k (x0.947 dmg)
PLEA: 27.8k (x1.049 dmg) (x1.335 dmg from Queen Pleiades Indigo's hypnosis)
INJU: 28.4k (x1.052 dmg)
EXPO: 70.5k (x1.185 dmg)
x8.500 trauma dmg from Ritual's parasitism
Combat Style: Flashy (1000% EXPO)
Focuses on putting on a show for any onlookers, usually by attacking the target's clothes or by sabotaging a stripped target's attempts at modesty. Can be used to demoralize an entire team.
Training Plan: Flashy (1000% EXPO)
Increases EXPO expertise only
Defiler Specialty: Tempt (PLEA)
Can switch mid-battle to a high-PLEA combat style with an extra damage multiplier at low Disgrace, can cause and intensify Morality/Confidence Distortion against valid targets
Trait: Undead Forsaken
One-third motivation gain, 1/4 Evil Energy cost, Distortion trait changed
Trait: Eager Partner (Vitality Addict)
Regardless of Obedience, 1/4 Motivation cost to deploy and +50% PLEA and EXPO damage
Restore 1% Stamina per Trauma level inflicted on targets, can spend 100% Stamina to Capture flying target
Trait: Personal Paradise
Fully restore Motivation every day and deal +10% damage (from wings of EXPOdia)
First Hypnosis: Queen Pleiades Indigo (+33.5% PLEA damage)
First Parasitism: Ritual (+750% trauma damage)
Investigative Hypnotist (+3.9% own PLEA damage per Hypnosis)
Hostility: 11% (Optimistic about humanity)
Deviancy: 73% (Fetishizes aberrant actions)
Obedience: 42% (Obeys out of fear)
Disgrace: 61% (Viewed with contempt)
What would you like to speak to Final EXPOdia about?She was Tempted, which gives her a bonus to PLEA (and EXPO) damage. You can't view this in the above shot, but she's also got a Punisher that buffs her own PLEA. Since I just got her in the last Loop she hasn't used it yet but she'll be able to continually build her PLEA damage as she Breaks more Forsaken as my Hypnotist. And she had her Total INN break from a Forsaken that gave her a bonus to PLEA damage also.
She was also converted with what I generally find to be the most useful Punisher for Total DIG Break, and got a +750% Trauma damage modifier so she can start building up large Surrounds right away.
She's Undead. Her cost is 4EE, so I can send her out Day 1 with my set of items. I would have liked for this to be higher to build her self-buffs more, but Tempted Forsaken start out with high Disgrace so this is unavoidable.
And, the part that makes this an experiment--she was converted along with my first Angel Chosen, who I broke through Temptation to make her restore this Forsaken's Motivation every day.
Now, you can't get all these bonuses right away. You have to build up to them by building your roster of Forsaken. But I get them by taking at every chance the opportunity to build the single most powerful single Forsaken every Loop. You take that one and stack all the bonuses you can on it.
As soon as I get Psychic Reading, I examine the Chosen and do a Forsaken Preview. If any of them have good Punishers I don't already have, I break them through Temptation or Negotiation. If any of them have self buffs to damage (Trauma or a Circumstance), I convert them through whatever Distortion maximizes that buff or those buffs. If I have a Forsaken Punisher that provides buffs to the same thing, I use them to to the Total Break. If the Chosen doesn't have any of these, I designate them as worthless and use them to build up all Total Breaks for both Achievements and self-buffs on my other Forsaken that I'm currently building. And right now I'm interested to see what I can do with Angel and Devil Chosen because I haven't really used them heavily, so I use those to try out new things.
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Well, I'm at Loop 20:
I did cheat past Loop 15 (Victory) so this run is not entirely legitimate. Some of the planned changes, I expect, will enable a more legitimate completion of that Loop. I beat Loop 16, which is actually my first fight against Angel Chosen. I wasn't able to get all T4 breaks vs the Superior chosen there (got 3/4) or defeat her during the Final Battle, but I did pick up the Undead that I posted above and an Angel Forsaken that constantly restores her Motivation.
This is where I'm playing out past planned content. I think Loop 20 is supposed to have the first re-occuring Boss fight eventually, when planned content is implemented.
I defeated Splendor with Megalomania, and did the same to Victory, so she shows up like this:
In addition to the new Forsaken I posted above, who is I feel going to prove her usefulness this Loop, I have several other Forsaken of note.
This is another Tempter with 4EE cost that can switch between EXPO and PLEA. She focuses a bit more on EXPO damage.
My favorite is Metalhead. I've discussed Forsaken like her before. Whenever I'm not sure what to do, I try Deploying her with all my EE and she rarely disappoints. She just does so much Trauma that it's hard not to get something useful out of her once I can put 20EE or so into her deployment. And at the end of the Loop if I've got several hundred extra EE laying around, she can turn that success into larger multipliers for herself through her two self-buffs.
I'm training up several Forsaken that still need to reach their full potential. But let's look at some Devils!
She doesn't have particularly useful Punishers with this exception that may come into play sometimes against Angel Chosen or maybe sometimes Devil Chosen:
If I'm totally lost as to what to do I might try sending her out after her auto-training to see if she can create an opening. I haven't used her yet.
I used her once during the last Loop and she was very effective at starting an Orgy. I can imagine that the Personal Hell ability to capture flying Chosen might be helpful, but I usually plan the Orgy such that they're all Flying afterwards and so recapturing 1 is not actually very helpful. If I re-did my Orgy strategies so that at the end only 1 was flying I could make great use of it, though.
And one more, though I haven't actually sent her out yet:
This is what Victory became. I wouldn't be surprised if she deployed for significant damage but I just haven't found a reason to use her.
Items:
These are very good items but also very standard. Mostly they give me a longer time to do things in Combat or make some accomplishments easier to do. Reign's and Balance's Pantsu change gameplay the most, probably (other than Tomorrow's Newspaper).
CSdev have you done much testing with two Angels? I think that's by far the more interesting of these two Loops. Not sure if it's easier or more difficult as I've only fought one Angel before but I'm more intrigued by it than the 75% Damage reduction in the other Loop.
I'm again pointing out that I'm playing past the end of current new content, so the Loops contain larger Damage Reduction, Luxuries, and shorter Final Battle times than the final game is expected to have.
I did cheat past Loop 15 (Victory) so this run is not entirely legitimate. Some of the planned changes, I expect, will enable a more legitimate completion of that Loop. I beat Loop 16, which is actually my first fight against Angel Chosen. I wasn't able to get all T4 breaks vs the Superior chosen there (got 3/4) or defeat her during the Final Battle, but I did pick up the Undead that I posted above and an Angel Forsaken that constantly restores her Motivation.
This is where I'm playing out past planned content. I think Loop 20 is supposed to have the first re-occuring Boss fight eventually, when planned content is implemented.
I defeated Splendor with Megalomania, and did the same to Victory, so she shows up like this:
In addition to the new Forsaken I posted above, who is I feel going to prove her usefulness this Loop, I have several other Forsaken of note.
This is another Tempter with 4EE cost that can switch between EXPO and PLEA. She focuses a bit more on EXPO damage.
My favorite is Metalhead. I've discussed Forsaken like her before. Whenever I'm not sure what to do, I try Deploying her with all my EE and she rarely disappoints. She just does so much Trauma that it's hard not to get something useful out of her once I can put 20EE or so into her deployment. And at the end of the Loop if I've got several hundred extra EE laying around, she can turn that success into larger multipliers for herself through her two self-buffs.
I'm training up several Forsaken that still need to reach their full potential. But let's look at some Devils!
She doesn't have particularly useful Punishers with this exception that may come into play sometimes against Angel Chosen or maybe sometimes Devil Chosen:
If I'm totally lost as to what to do I might try sending her out after her auto-training to see if she can create an opening. I haven't used her yet.
I used her once during the last Loop and she was very effective at starting an Orgy. I can imagine that the Personal Hell ability to capture flying Chosen might be helpful, but I usually plan the Orgy such that they're all Flying afterwards and so recapturing 1 is not actually very helpful. If I re-did my Orgy strategies so that at the end only 1 was flying I could make great use of it, though.
And one more, though I haven't actually sent her out yet:
This is what Victory became. I wouldn't be surprised if she deployed for significant damage but I just haven't found a reason to use her.
Items:
These are very good items but also very standard. Mostly they give me a longer time to do things in Combat or make some accomplishments easier to do. Reign's and Balance's Pantsu change gameplay the most, probably (other than Tomorrow's Newspaper).
CSdev have you done much testing with two Angels? I think that's by far the more interesting of these two Loops. Not sure if it's easier or more difficult as I've only fought one Angel before but I'm more intrigued by it than the 75% Damage reduction in the other Loop.
I'm again pointing out that I'm playing past the end of current new content, so the Loops contain larger Damage Reduction, Luxuries, and shorter Final Battle times than the final game is expected to have.
- Nov 7, 2019
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Big ask but I started playing again and I've finished loop 1 on Day 42 (not my best, I think I made some poor Distortion choices) and here's what I have to work with and I've read the included training guide and Kalloi's guide and nothing's clicking. Any pointers/explanation on what I should be doing with these gals would be very appreciated.
- Oct 14, 2020
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I understand that most people have a pretty strong instinct against throwing away potentially-useful-later resources in order to overcome the current challenge. It's the whole "save all your big revival items for the final boss" impulse. And if the game is using the "stick" approach rather than the "carrot" approach to make you sacrifice them, then it doesn't feel good to get so little out of it after you've worked so hard to recruit them. I'll have to think about some more ways to solve that.
I am glad that this is coming up now, because it's influencing some of my ideas for lategame items. A couple of them will either make it much easier to keep a large roster, or else give you a bigger bonus for sacrificing. The items aren't guaranteed to show up, though, so I should probably be looking for other solutions as well.
It'd be flavorful, but I'd worry about offering the player too many "trap" options, since the first boss you face after Splendor is already probably a difficulty spike. More types of bargain are always interesting to think about, though.
Yes, absolutely. There'll be several things coming over the next few updates.
1) Fixes to the Splendor's behavior, including the bugs where she wasn't offering an actionable bargain.
2) Better lategame items so you don't have all that Influence burning a hole in your pocket.
3) The midboss which appears every 7 loops - she'll offer some persistent buffs in later loops depending on your progress against her.
4) Rework to Tempted Forsaken - their base bonus right now is both boring and pretty weak, so I have some ideas to fix that.
5) More bosses in general. Right now, the only way to make use of the Megalomaniac Splendor bonus is to face her first and then Victory after. But once Love and Judgment are in, you'll be able to do something like Victory->Splendor->Love so that you aren't getting sabotaged so hard while also dealing with your Second-in-Command spot being occupied.
I still haven't faced two Angels at once in a "legitimate starting from Loop 1" playtest, so that would be new to me too. It's very interesting to see how you're using the new species.
You've got some very good ones, actually.
Miracle's got some very powerful Punisher buffs to Chosen she can T4 break. She can build you a stronger team all on her own in the Breeder, Harvester, and Publicist positions. Like, her buffs will basically be the basis for your second-generation Forsaken and she doesn't require really any training at all to do that.
Honey you have two choices for: she's strong enough that you can leave alone for her Breeder bonus (though weaker than I'd personally like her to be for that), or you can try to bring her EE cost down so that she's a usable Forsaken hitting HATE and PLEA. You'll have a lot of difficulty getting her Disgrace up for that, though, since she can't be set to auto-train Disgrace. You need her Disgrace to go up by 20-30 points and it's possible that there isn't a way to make it go up--you'll have to experiment since she can refuse trainings.
Oracle is probably the most ordinary of them. Set her as your Hypnotist for now for cheap and early T4 breaks. Pick one of her bonus circumstances (I'd recommend EXPO) and have her focus on that damage type. You can let her Disgrace go up a little bit if you want her to be cheaper--personally I wouldn't. She'll be almost immediately useful during your next Loop, allowing you to skip early Commander upgrades and go straight for a Dignity Break. Make sure to do a Grand Concert or Instill Fixation at some point so that she gets her Defiler, which allows her to switch between EXPO and PLEA damage.
Yeah it feels a bit bad. Especially because I know that these Forsaken in particular will be useful later to building a team of Angels/Devils. It's more like cashing in your retirement savings to afford to be able to afford your rent.
My Tempted Forsaken are consistently among my most useful, second only to the one Rampant Forsaken I allow myself to have. So I'm a bit interested to see why you think they need a buff. I build them in a very particular way, though, that takes advantage of their ability to switch damage types. I find the Averted and (especially) Negotiated Forsaken to overall be much more difficult to find the right spot to use them but I'm working on a couple that will eventually be pretty strong. Still my Tempted and Rampant Forsaken will probably be the best general purpose I can build for a while.
Yeah, it's definitely tricky. I'll post some progress later, probably.
- Oct 14, 2020
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The Tempt Defiler is plenty strong when leveraged properly, but the base effect for Tempted Forsaken isn't great: only a x1/4 Motivation deployment cost multiplier, while Rampant Forsaken outright restore Motivation by being deployed. Of course, Rampant Forsaken balance that by losing Motivation over time, but the Tempted Forsaken drawback of needing to stay below 40% Obedience can be pretty annoying too (and while Undead Tempted Forsaken are exempt from that drawback, the Animalistic and regular human Tempted Forsaken still have to deal with it). In general, I want to make sure that it's viable to use Distorted Forsaken even with non-Distortion Defilers.
OK yeah, that's why I don't use Animalistic Tempted, and stop using standard Tempted as soon as possible too. They are also really difficult to train Expertise since they start with high Deviancy, and their naturally low Obedience makes some training actions unusable--I might start with something that modifies their Expertise gain/Consent modifier, especially if you would like to see them being used outside of the Tempt Defiler as even training them out of PLEA/EXPO is a challenge (because of the 10k extra Expertise they start with in those). These Forsaken should really be up for anything that isn't outright painful because of the nature of their conversion--maybe a bonus to Consent for non-Obedience actions, and a bonus to Expertise for all training actions? And/Or a different bonus if you train their Obedience past 40%, like some kind of bonus to gaining Expertise? That might go a bit further to making them more generally useful.
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- Nov 7, 2019
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Thank you, I didn't even realize one Forsaken could hold multiple positions at the same time.
This helps tremendously. Time to see what I can do on my first Loop 2.
OK so let's dig into this just a bit.
With only 20 days in this Loop I will have to be maximally efficient with how I get breaks and utilize each combat day. I have some very strong Forsaken and I'm up against two Angel Chosen, which means, I think, that they both use their abilities to help the Animalistic, and the one with higher ANGST uses her abilities to help the other one. I'm going to skip ahead to day 2, buy Psychic Reading, get a handle on everything I see, and then go back and decide what I need to break Day 1.
In this first trial combat, the second Chosen joins the fight Turn 6. I know that this depends on the number of days left in the Loop. The first two are Angel Chosen, and the third Chosen, the Animalistic, shows up Round 26 and is weak to CON damage that round.
I can confirm that the second Angel Chosen helps the first Angel Chosen escape using her ability, but the first Angel Chosen doesn't help the second. I'm not able to tell how the two Angels interact with the Animalistic Chosen because she comes in Turn 26 after Extermination is complete.
After Combat, I buy Psychic Reading so that I can get some kind of plan for how to proceed.
I've already got an Angel Eager Partner to try out. The next bonus I'm interested in is Dissassociative Identity (Unleashed Angel) which says it gives a 200% bonus to all damage. That sounds amazing! I want it. I wanted it in Loop 16, but the Angel came pre-broken in a way that didn't allow me to get that Distortion. So, let's try that out on Release. On Testament, those Punishers are in areas I already have. I'd have liked it if I could make her Averted as well with that Trauma self-buff, but alas, she's already got her INN broken. I think I'll have to settle for Negotiated or Tempted here, and Tempted will definitely be easier to get since I have the Item that makes it easier. I want some Negotiated Angels too but I think that will have to wait for another Loop where there's a bit less going on all at once. For Moo, uh--she's kind of not got anything valuable going on. I do need to restock on useless/worthless Forsaken, so maybe she can be Tempted which will make it easier for her to Grand Concert later. That'll at least get me +100EE that I can use to get the breaks I want.
So my plan looks like this:
There's only one Core Vulnerability that's getting fully broken on this whole team, which means that I won't be getting a lot of EE from breaks.
So, this is enough info to try to go back to day 1. It might be possible to get a T2 MOR break on Release or a T2 DIG break on Testament using Metalhead. I could instead guarantee a CON break on Moo but this would be forsaking several +2EE breaks that I feel are more valuable to me.
I send out Metalhead day 1 to build up some Trauma, and she does manage to get the T2 MOR break I expected her to get.
I didn't grab a shot of them after Day 1, whoops!
Day 2 Moo is weak to DIG, so I send out Final Expodia. Expodia might be better, but I want to see how the Motivation restore works.
Here's where they stand after Day 2.
I think this is on track to accomplish what I want.
There's no real notification of what Trauma the Angels absorb and how that works. But it looks like: Release absorbs from Moo, then Testament absorbs from both Moo and Release. EE is 2, 1, 0 and the exponential levels of Trauma that Moo needs will make it difficult to get her beyond this point.
Testament is ready for Temptation and I think I can accomplish this today for the +100 EE. Release can also get a T1 DIG break, I won't push it necessarily, but if I see that I've got an extra Surround on her at the end I'll take it. I'll try Final EXPOdia again. She didn't lose any Motivation from the last deployment.
As for upgrades, I've bought everything 5EE or below. Thanks Tomorrow's Newspaper and Subjective Astrolabe!
After Day 3:
Testament does her Tempt downtime, because she was tempted. I now have 157 EE which I can use to get every major upgrade I need to have. This is important because I'm just not going to get much EE from Downtimes because of the Angel abilities. I go up and grab through: Networked Consciousness, Passion Release, Soul Resonance, and Reality Sealing. MMM that's good EE.
This also makes Testament the lowest-ANGST Angel, so she'll avoid using those abilities to help Release. This means I'll get full surround turns vs Release which may be important for the next combat.
I don't have very important goals for the next Combat. It might be possible to get an Orgy in the combat after that, when Moo is weak to PLEA, and I can start with a Force+ affecting both her and Release and therefore Orgy Testament without breaking her INN. So, I think today I'll send Metalhead out with some significant EE (73) for the first time, to create some major Trauma. I could instead go for the open CON break on Release--that one's not on a timer or anything, though, so I'll wait. Since Testament won't help Release escape, I decide to target Release first.
For Strategic Objectives, I finally have enough for Control Center, which compounds the damage from sending out the same Forsaken each time as I tend to do in the beginning.
After Day 4:
Hey, I'm finally up to 1EE vs Moo! Maybe I'll get to 2EE before the loop ends!
So this is the time I can possibly do an Orgy. I definitely want to at least break Moo's PLEA and get her set up for Tempt.
I also have enough Strategic Advantage to get the Transmission Tower to do a bit more compounding of damage.
With only 20 days in this Loop I will have to be maximally efficient with how I get breaks and utilize each combat day. I have some very strong Forsaken and I'm up against two Angel Chosen, which means, I think, that they both use their abilities to help the Animalistic, and the one with higher ANGST uses her abilities to help the other one. I'm going to skip ahead to day 2, buy Psychic Reading, get a handle on everything I see, and then go back and decide what I need to break Day 1.
In this first trial combat, the second Chosen joins the fight Turn 6. I know that this depends on the number of days left in the Loop. The first two are Angel Chosen, and the third Chosen, the Animalistic, shows up Round 26 and is weak to CON damage that round.
I can confirm that the second Angel Chosen helps the first Angel Chosen escape using her ability, but the first Angel Chosen doesn't help the second. I'm not able to tell how the two Angels interact with the Animalistic Chosen because she comes in Turn 26 after Extermination is complete.
After Combat, I buy Psychic Reading so that I can get some kind of plan for how to proceed.
Code:
Release +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (min) [ ][ ][ ][ ]
INN (sig) [ ][ ][ ][ ]
CON (core) [X][ ][ ][ ][ ]
DIG (core) [X][ ][ ][ ][ ]
Testament +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (core) [X][ ][ ][ ][ ]
INN (min) [X][X][ ][ ]
CON (sig) [ ][ ][ ][ ]
DIG (sig) [ ][ ][ ][ ]
Moo +2 T1 T2 T3 T4
MOR (sig) [ ][ ][ ][ ]
INN (core) [ ][ ][ ][ ][ ]
CON (min) [ ][ ][ ][ ]
DIG (min) [ ][ ][ ][ ] <- current weakness
If they become Forsaken, the current team of Chosen will have access to these abilities which activate when they perform a Total Break against future Chosen. Dignity Break will weaken the effects, but will also make them cheaper to deploy.
Release
Deployment cost: 500 Evil Energy
Scarring Breeder (+45.0% victim HATE damage as Forsaken)
Instructive Hypnotist (+45.0% victim PLEA damage as Forsaken)
Painful Harvester (+45% victim Resolve damage from Attack)
Notorious Publicist (+180% own trauma damage per Parasitism)
Testament
Deployment cost: 287 Evil Energy
Charming Breeder (+41.0% victim max Motivation)
Investigative Hypnotist (+8.2% own PLEA damage per Hypnosis)
Responsible Harvester (+16.4% victim Stamina regeneration)
Practical Publicist (+41.0% victim EXPO damage as Forsaken)
Moo
Deployment cost: 109 Evil Energy
Protective Breeder (+6.8% own max Stamina per Impregnation)
Loyal Hypnotist (+34 victim training consent modifier)
Dutiful Harvester (+109 EE per Drain)
Rising Publicist (-2% own Disgrace per Parasitism)So my plan looks like this:
There's only one Core Vulnerability that's getting fully broken on this whole team, which means that I won't be getting a lot of EE from breaks.
So, this is enough info to try to go back to day 1. It might be possible to get a T2 MOR break on Release or a T2 DIG break on Testament using Metalhead. I could instead guarantee a CON break on Moo but this would be forsaking several +2EE breaks that I feel are more valuable to me.
I send out Metalhead day 1 to build up some Trauma, and she does manage to get the T2 MOR break I expected her to get.
I didn't grab a shot of them after Day 1, whoops!
Day 2 Moo is weak to DIG, so I send out Final Expodia. Expodia might be better, but I want to see how the Motivation restore works.
Here's where they stand after Day 2.
I think this is on track to accomplish what I want.
There's no real notification of what Trauma the Angels absorb and how that works. But it looks like: Release absorbs from Moo, then Testament absorbs from both Moo and Release. EE is 2, 1, 0 and the exponential levels of Trauma that Moo needs will make it difficult to get her beyond this point.
Testament is ready for Temptation and I think I can accomplish this today for the +100 EE. Release can also get a T1 DIG break, I won't push it necessarily, but if I see that I've got an extra Surround on her at the end I'll take it. I'll try Final EXPOdia again. She didn't lose any Motivation from the last deployment.
As for upgrades, I've bought everything 5EE or below. Thanks Tomorrow's Newspaper and Subjective Astrolabe!
After Day 3:
Testament does her Tempt downtime, because she was tempted. I now have 157 EE which I can use to get every major upgrade I need to have. This is important because I'm just not going to get much EE from Downtimes because of the Angel abilities. I go up and grab through: Networked Consciousness, Passion Release, Soul Resonance, and Reality Sealing. MMM that's good EE.
This also makes Testament the lowest-ANGST Angel, so she'll avoid using those abilities to help Release. This means I'll get full surround turns vs Release which may be important for the next combat.
I don't have very important goals for the next Combat. It might be possible to get an Orgy in the combat after that, when Moo is weak to PLEA, and I can start with a Force+ affecting both her and Release and therefore Orgy Testament without breaking her INN. So, I think today I'll send Metalhead out with some significant EE (73) for the first time, to create some major Trauma. I could instead go for the open CON break on Release--that one's not on a timer or anything, though, so I'll wait. Since Testament won't help Release escape, I decide to target Release first.
For Strategic Objectives, I finally have enough for Control Center, which compounds the damage from sending out the same Forsaken each time as I tend to do in the beginning.
After Day 4:
Hey, I'm finally up to 1EE vs Moo! Maybe I'll get to 2EE before the loop ends!
So this is the time I can possibly do an Orgy. I definitely want to at least break Moo's PLEA and get her set up for Tempt.
I also have enough Strategic Advantage to get the Transmission Tower to do a bit more compounding of damage.
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Day 5:
I get +6EE from the scripted radio event. Moo's PLEA wasn't building fast enough because she didn't have the breaks in it yet and it's a moderately strong Core. So I just went ahead and got her to Tempted and got the needed breaks. Downtimes are +2, +1, +15.
This and the 100EE from Tempted brings me back up to 209EE. Seems like a good amount considering that I don't really need any more purchases. I might like to buy Impregnation and send out an Assist Raid Training Action tomorrow, which will increase the EE generation in a way they can't fight from the Trauma reduction. The rest of this will go towards whatever T4 breaks I manage to get. Sure hoping I get some at least.
It's Day 6 and I've got one more Distortion left to do to ensure a victory in the Loop. And I don't know how it interacts with the Angel abilities--can they absorb Trauma if they're catatonic? Hopefully this is the chance to find out.
And because our EE has been growing, let's try a new Forsaken:
She oughta be able to hurt them pretty bad and use Traumatize to build up a nice Orgy.
Day 6:
I succeed in getting the Orgy for 7 turns, which is what I need due to my Item. So, this loop is basically won--I can Distort all of them in the final battle. I only need a 4-turn Orgy due to Achievements.
But do I stop there?
If I can get a T3 break, I can probably get a Total Break. I'm especially interested in any I can get on Release because I'd like to buff her damage dealing on top of the +200% she gets from being Averted Angelic. But building up Trauma will be difficult because any Orgy reduces its duration by 3 per turn because of the Angels. That 7-turn Orgy actually only lasted 3 turns.
Today I'm skipping Combat and seeing what happens if I send out an Assist Raid. I can't make Orgy progress since Moo's weakness is CON and I can only hit one Chosen with that, so today wouldn't accomplish much anyway.
Combat 7: No new breaks
The Assist Raid leaves their Angst at 3G, 189M, and 9.7M. Good thing I wasn't planning on Negotiate.
I suppose I can try Final EXPOdia again and Orgy through DIG. It might work pretty well, since she hits EXPO first.
Combat 8: No new breaks
Release is at 34M Fear. I'd really like to get her Fear to break first, because I don't know if I can get any other T3/T4 breaks. The Angel INJU T3 move looks like it requires other people using T3 Breaks, and yeah honestly that seems pretty unlikely right now. Going to send out Metalhead backed by 185EE and see what kind of chaos she can wreak.
Combat 9:
This is kind of what I didn't want to happen. It looks like Release's CON break requires that I get someone else's T3 break as well, and that's... hard because she's absorbing most of their Trauma/Angst.
Testament is only at 9M DISG, which is kind of a long way away from 100M to get another break. It does get me the High-Rises unlocked. Honestly Entertainment Center may be better, though I think they're about the same. High Rises skips over the 999 threshold because they all hit Level 5 of Circ damage last combat, so it allows me to do everything another turn early. Entertainment District quintuples Trauma (no it doesn't), which is about what I'd expect for one more surround turn at this rate. I've gone with High Rises but I can always try the other one. Edit: Realized that it's not actually quintuple Trauma, just calculates downtimes as if Trauma was quintupled. That's pretty useless to me in this combat.
I'm sending out Bloodlust again, since it seemed to work pretty well last time and now we start with Level 1 EXPO.
OK, either I'm not understanding something or it's a bug. Here's combat, round 24.
Now, if Moo is escaping at triple speed, that means both Release and Testament are using their abilities on her. So far so good.
But then why do I see this at the start of round 25?
If Release is using her ability, shouldn't she still be surrounded for 5 turns and Frozen?
Or does the fact that Testament is using her ability help Release, even though Testament has lower Angst and I see this on her Examine?
Just trying to make sure I understand how it works. If I surrounded Testament right now, I'd expect her Surrounds to be going down at double speed (because Release is helping her escape), Moo to be still ticking down triple speed, and Release would be??? Going down one per turn from Testament helping or frozen? Not sure and would like clarification CSdev.
Also I'm not sure I like this, but maybe it's working the way you want it to:
Thematically, it makes sense that I can't target Release at all if she's giving everything she's got to flee the battlefield. But if she's doing that, she can't really be helping Testament escape, right? Like, she's described in this way:
So, I'm not sure how she's helping Testament escape. This is at least partially a thematic thing more than a mechanical thing of course and you can handle it whatever way keeps it how you feel it should be balanced. It makes sense to me that Angels that are catatonic might not want to absorb the Trauma of their fellows and that a panicked fleeing Angel wouldn't be able to help her comrades escape, but if it needs to be that way for balance then you can write some explanation. Basically if she's still helping with the combat I feel I should be able to target her with at least standard attacks
Anyway I've made negative progress on Testament's T3 break, she's down to 5M Disg from over 9M. It's overall not looking good for T3/T4 breaks happening this Loop.
And that's where I stop for the day. The next day has Moo on CON weakness again, which is very difficult to make progress with. I get 10EE from the vacation scripted event, and maybe I'll have different ideas about how to progress tomorrow.
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- Nov 7, 2019
- 319
- 685
What's the priority system for T1 breaks? I have a Chosen with Core Morality / Minor Dignity and no breaks. I've used Barrier Jammer to start her with 10k Hate but when I go to do an opening action, Grind will always break Dignity and the other three actions won't break anything until I've broken Dignity at which point Pummel will break Morality.
Is it because Dignity is Minor or is there a priority system for the breaks regardless of vulnerabilities?
Is it because Dignity is Minor or is there a priority system for the breaks regardless of vulnerabilities?
- Nov 7, 2019
- 319
- 685
Here's what I'm up against in Loop 2:
If Chaos goes Rampancy, Miracle goes Aversion, and Tyrant goes Aversion or Negotiation; then Chaos and Miracle can be friends and Miracle and Tyrant can be friends and it's just Tyrant and Chaos who won't get along.
But can you even do Negotiation and Rampancy on the same team since Rampancy zeroes out Trauma? And am I just thinking about this all wrong? That's generally how I approach Chosen squads: I look at what distortions hit as many cores and minors as possible but I'm wondering if that's not what I'm supposed to be doing at all.
If Chaos goes Rampancy, Miracle goes Aversion, and Tyrant goes Aversion or Negotiation; then Chaos and Miracle can be friends and Miracle and Tyrant can be friends and it's just Tyrant and Chaos who won't get along.
But can you even do Negotiation and Rampancy on the same team since Rampancy zeroes out Trauma? And am I just thinking about this all wrong? That's generally how I approach Chosen squads: I look at what distortions hit as many cores and minors as possible but I'm wondering if that's not what I'm supposed to be doing at all.
That happens to me too, T2 breaks drive me up the wall, sometimes hitting something different than the grind (or the other thing that appears in the info, for example grind and pummel or grind and expose) changes the t2 break
[/QUOTE]
I also tried that for my last run, it stopped at 11
- Dec 13, 2023
- 66
- 68
To CSDev, and anyone else who's managed to produce character portraits for this game:
What's the trick to generating a set of different expressions and/or poses for the same character?
I'm more than able to create a single image that's up-to-par, but generating a set of 9 unique expressions for a single character has been eluding me thus far.
I play around with LoRA's, ControlNet (though it only half-works), various models (and merging them), I use ADetailer to improve faces/gentials/etc. but I still feel like there's something vital I'm missing.
Any little bit helps, but a tutorial of some kind would be a godsend.
If there isn't one, maybe that's something that could be useful in order to expand upon the selection of Chosen/Forsaken portraits in the future?
"Proof of concept" provided, this is an example of what I managed to pull out of my ass last time I gave this a go:
What's the trick to generating a set of different expressions and/or poses for the same character?
I'm more than able to create a single image that's up-to-par, but generating a set of 9 unique expressions for a single character has been eluding me thus far.
I play around with LoRA's, ControlNet (though it only half-works), various models (and merging them), I use ADetailer to improve faces/gentials/etc. but I still feel like there's something vital I'm missing.
Any little bit helps, but a tutorial of some kind would be a godsend.
If there isn't one, maybe that's something that could be useful in order to expand upon the selection of Chosen/Forsaken portraits in the future?
"Proof of concept" provided, this is an example of what I managed to pull out of my ass last time I gave this a go:
Yeah, I'm not sure actually, since each T1 selfish tactic affects two stats, how it decides which one to use first. As someone else said below, when I find myself in this circumstance I'll hit other stats. Often then my next Surround will allow me to break the stat I'm actually looking to break.
I worry less about breaking cores/minors/friendships/enemies than I do about what I see when I click that Forsaken Preview button. If they've got good Punishers that help me build other Forsaken I generally want to pick Aversion or Negotiation (or maybe Megalomania) and if they've got Punishers that build themselves up I want to go Tempted (or get my one Rampant Forsaken). I try not to be in a situation where I need the EE from Core Breaks if I can help it. I look at those as soon as I get Psychic Reading and try to figure out what the best possible combination of Distortion and Total Breaks would be with my current roster to make the single strongest Forsaken I can.
Rampancy doesn't zero out trauma exactly, it's just that when you first trigger it she's not likely to have that much Trauma on her. The Rampancy downtime is -1G all Trauma, -10G Angst. You can get them above these values of trauma through careful manipulation of their Circumstances and consideration of their Vulnerabilities. You can do a lot of INJU damage before starting the Orgy, and start the Orgy with Sodomize so her HATE goes up more slowly (once she's got Rampancy active, obviously you first need to activate it). But it will be difficult to keep her in the Orgy for long because her CON is Significant and her MOR is Minor--her HATE will always eventually overtake her INJU and she'll escape. But you can get like a good 7-10 turns, enough to bring her within range of T3 breaks for sure.
You may want to make sure to trigger Negotiation before Rampancy since it'll be difficult to keep ANGST on Chaos after she's Rampant. So you might break them in a different order if you really want those three breaks: get Miracle and the others, targeting Orgy on CON for 10 turns, then Negotiate Tyrant, then make Chaos Rampant. The fight where you make Chaos go Rampant you may have to keep her surrounded to keep her off of whatever T3 break she faces first (it's likely to be INN). As for relationships, that'll make Miracle hate Chaos (and maybe enough to be Bitter Enemies) but Tyrant and Miracle will get along fine if you take your T3 and T4 breaks in order to make them so--if that's what you want. Personally I like making all my early Forsaken hate each other, because most of them end up being sacrificed eventually as they get replaced by better Forsaken. I also don't do a whole lot of personal training but that's my style.
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Loop 20, after Combat 11:
No change in breaks. It's kind of starting to look like I may have an easier time continuing to raise Release's HATE to getting a T3 MOR break than I'll ever have getting the others up into the 100M range. She's at 350M Fear, while I'm unable to get Testament into two-digit PLEA.
For Day 12 I'll again send out Metalhead and back her with 175EE. Moo is weak to EXPO so this should be a fairly effective combat round.
OK, I'm either missing something, or there's a bug, or something isn't displaying correctly. Here's the situation:
But Testament shouldn't be using her ability to help Release right now:
I'll post a save in case you need to test something CSdev . It should be "in2"--the first slot.
Well, next turn the number of turns only went down by 1 despite the message. So it may just be a display bug, because I do see how Testament was helping the previous combat turn when I had Moo Surrounded.
After Combat 12:
More progress from Release, who is now at 579M FEAR. I can get her to 1G at this rate, but I don't know how quickly I'll be able to send someone else out to convert her, or how rapidly she'll do the Fear move. Species reference states:
Moo is weak to HATE, so let's try Metalhead again.
After Combat 13: Release is up to 659M FEAR. Moo is weak to PLEA, so I send Lapdog (formerly Victory) out for a stroll.
Her cost is 34EE, so if I don't get a lot of extra from sending her I'll just send Final EXPOdia again.
After Combat 14: Release is almost there at 863M FEAR. If I can earn that T3 Break in the next few combats, based on my understanding of when she uses the move, it should pretty much fill up the same fight. I only need 400% PE to have it ready to break. I don't know if I'll have enough EE to be able to send my best Breeder to improve her HATE damage, and it doesn't really seem like I'll get enough on anyone else for any T3 breaks. But once I get those T3 breaks I can focus on Tempting the others to make the final battle easier and gain me extra EE (should be able to get +40/day) After next combat is the military base, which won't give me any bonus EE.
I don't think I can get Testament there, even though last combat was very PLEA heavy it only got her to 12.8M DISG.
Moo is weak to CON so this is either a Bloodlust battle or another Metalhead. Trying to conserve EE, I send out Metalhead.
After Combat 16: Success!
So, what I'd like to eventually do with Release is stack on another damage modifier. Within Breeders, there's only +victim HATE. I have 3 that fulfill that requirement:
I have 3 days before the Final Battle. If I Orgy/Tempt/Tempt every day, I get +40EE per day, That plus the 144 I still have doens't allow me afford Hatequeen's massive cost. I really should try to get an Undead that replaces her. But, I can easily afford Assplodey. I haven't introduced her yet, because my hope is that I'm eventually able to get some T4 CON breaks with her and bring her down to a reasonable but high cost in the 20s somewhere. She has a +self buff on CON damage, so she'll be my panic "I need an Orgy now" button. But, I haven't actually gotten those T4 CON breaks because I've been fighting Angels.
Anyway, let's try to build up that 400% PE for HATE! We'll need, obviously, Metalhead, since MOO is weak to EXPO.
In Combat 16:
I'm fortunate to find that the Ego Murder selfish tactic is set up so that it can't be immediately overlapped, unlike the similar Mating Dance from the Animalistic which they can use to make their comrades invincible by using the turn it would expire. This balances out somewhat the fact that they can do this move while surrounded, which makes it impossible to stop (unless you're not surrounding her).
After Combat 16:
Testament spams the move as often as she can, as I kind of expected her to do. So, all that's left to do to finish up this Loop is:
1) Total Break Release's MOR, getting that damage bonus to stack on the 200% she gets to all damage (Nice!)
2) Continue to Tempt Testament and Moo to bring their Final Battle requirements down and make them easier
3) Plan for Moo being on DIG weakness day 20. If I'm not able to get her PLEA high enough I think she'll escape instead of suiciding, but I'd like to have her if possible.
So, updates will be short from here because there's not much more to do. Testament and Moo take a PLEA of 281K in the final battle to convert. I'll go ahead and set Assplodey to the Breeder. After that I'll make Metalhead the Trainer so she won't Tantrum, and that'll be Day 17.
Well, shit--should have checked this, but Assplodey and Ghast can't be Breeders. Assplodey was converted through Negotiation so her Hostility isn't high enough, and Ghast was converted through no distortions at all so her Obedience isn't high enough. I do have Haterape that can give a +21% HATE bonus, though, and that'll be good enough.
Combat 17: I notice another small bug CSdev
It looks like the Forsaken can still use Ego Murder while being Captured. I would have thought based on the description of what's going on that they'd have to be Surrounded instead. Also when they do this there's no text indicating that they've used the move, but the move shows in effect on the next combat turn. Here's some game output:
Notice that Round 2 Ego Murder shows up but there's no indication it was used Round 1. Additionally, the # of turns is wrong: In turn 2 it shows it being active for 4 turns. But her HATE is only level 2 after the Turn 1 Capture. In my opinion, they shouldn't be using this move when Captured as it's a move that fights Thralls specifically.
It doesn't seem like it happens a later time when I have Release captured, so maybe it's something different that happens for Turn 1 of Combat?
But, I do get my Total Morality Break, as above. I'll also try to Tempt this fight. Edit: Not able to Tempt. But Day 18 I should be able to as Moo is weak to PLEA.
Send out Final EXPOdia.
Kind of skipping to the Final Battle here because there isn't much else that's interesting to talk about.
Final Battle: Buy up through Empathy, since Moo and Testament have Unbreakable Friendship. Send out Final EXPOdia since Moo is weak to EXPO, should enable me to get a small Orgy off of that to convert Release. Then maybe her Tempt will be enough to pull Testament up. Need to not attack Release's HATE or she will start using her special move, then I won't be able to control the fight. But as long as she stays below Level 2 HATE she shouldn't use it as it doesn't give her any benefit.
Eventually, the right sequence of moves gets me to a one-turn Orgy, converting Release. Next turn Extermination is finished, but I can Capture Testament, then Tempt her, which converts her after only a few turns. Then all that remains to see is if I can get Moo--- and yes!
Here's Release:
I could make maximal use of just her HATE multiplier , but I've kind of already got a Forsaken built for HATE orgies. I think it's more interesting to use her doing both HATE and INJU damage, which means she'll basically be a better Cataclysm that doesn't sap Motivation from everyone else. She'll need to cost a lot less, though: Her cost of 287EE is way too high to be usable damaging Forsaken. Cataclysm costs 51EE and her Deployment strength is 114%. Her bonuses, I think, multiply together, so hers are (1.226[Expertise])(1.425[Scarring Breeder])(1.75 [Devil])(1.5[Averted])(1.14[Deployment Strength]) = 5.23 or so.
So if I wanted an Angel just as strong, she'd have about the same Expertise, only 1.21 from Scarring Breeder, 3.0(Averted Angel) * 1.226 (assumed Expertise)
So she'd need deployment strength of 5.23/1.226 or roughly 117%, so roughly the same cost. That means 30% more Disgrace for her, but once she's there I can free or sacrifice my Devil Chosen.
So, if I'm feeling like that's where I want her, she's going to be renamed Wrath.
Testament gives a boost to Wrath and that's her only legit purpose, so she's now wrath's vibrator. Moo is just kind of worthless... so she's the new beefcow. Maybe she'll get lucky and Splendor will offer me something I want for her freedom.
And that's how Loop 20 goes with 2 Angels.
E: Actually Splendor offered me a pretty good deal for Releasing Haterape (don't increase difficulty next Loop), so now I'm thinking I'll just let Wrath train HATE and replace her on the roster.
No change in breaks. It's kind of starting to look like I may have an easier time continuing to raise Release's HATE to getting a T3 MOR break than I'll ever have getting the others up into the 100M range. She's at 350M Fear, while I'm unable to get Testament into two-digit PLEA.
For Day 12 I'll again send out Metalhead and back her with 175EE. Moo is weak to EXPO so this should be a fairly effective combat round.
OK, I'm either missing something, or there's a bug, or something isn't displaying correctly. Here's the situation:
But Testament shouldn't be using her ability to help Release right now:
I'll post a save in case you need to test something CSdev . It should be "in2"--the first slot.
Well, next turn the number of turns only went down by 1 despite the message. So it may just be a display bug, because I do see how Testament was helping the previous combat turn when I had Moo Surrounded.
After Combat 12:
More progress from Release, who is now at 579M FEAR. I can get her to 1G at this rate, but I don't know how quickly I'll be able to send someone else out to convert her, or how rapidly she'll do the Fear move. Species reference states:
So I think I can progress this really fast.
Moo is weak to HATE, so let's try Metalhead again.
After Combat 13: Release is up to 659M FEAR. Moo is weak to PLEA, so I send Lapdog (formerly Victory) out for a stroll.
Her cost is 34EE, so if I don't get a lot of extra from sending her I'll just send Final EXPOdia again.
After Combat 14: Release is almost there at 863M FEAR. If I can earn that T3 Break in the next few combats, based on my understanding of when she uses the move, it should pretty much fill up the same fight. I only need 400% PE to have it ready to break. I don't know if I'll have enough EE to be able to send my best Breeder to improve her HATE damage, and it doesn't really seem like I'll get enough on anyone else for any T3 breaks. But once I get those T3 breaks I can focus on Tempting the others to make the final battle easier and gain me extra EE (should be able to get +40/day) After next combat is the military base, which won't give me any bonus EE.
I don't think I can get Testament there, even though last combat was very PLEA heavy it only got her to 12.8M DISG.
Moo is weak to CON so this is either a Bloodlust battle or another Metalhead. Trying to conserve EE, I send out Metalhead.
After Combat 16: Success!
So, what I'd like to eventually do with Release is stack on another damage modifier. Within Breeders, there's only +victim HATE. I have 3 that fulfill that requirement:
I have 3 days before the Final Battle. If I Orgy/Tempt/Tempt every day, I get +40EE per day, That plus the 144 I still have doens't allow me afford Hatequeen's massive cost. I really should try to get an Undead that replaces her. But, I can easily afford Assplodey. I haven't introduced her yet, because my hope is that I'm eventually able to get some T4 CON breaks with her and bring her down to a reasonable but high cost in the 20s somewhere. She has a +self buff on CON damage, so she'll be my panic "I need an Orgy now" button. But, I haven't actually gotten those T4 CON breaks because I've been fighting Angels.
Anyway, let's try to build up that 400% PE for HATE! We'll need, obviously, Metalhead, since MOO is weak to EXPO.
In Combat 16:
I'm fortunate to find that the Ego Murder selfish tactic is set up so that it can't be immediately overlapped, unlike the similar Mating Dance from the Animalistic which they can use to make their comrades invincible by using the turn it would expire. This balances out somewhat the fact that they can do this move while surrounded, which makes it impossible to stop (unless you're not surrounding her).
After Combat 16:
Testament spams the move as often as she can, as I kind of expected her to do. So, all that's left to do to finish up this Loop is:
1) Total Break Release's MOR, getting that damage bonus to stack on the 200% she gets to all damage (Nice!)
2) Continue to Tempt Testament and Moo to bring their Final Battle requirements down and make them easier
3) Plan for Moo being on DIG weakness day 20. If I'm not able to get her PLEA high enough I think she'll escape instead of suiciding, but I'd like to have her if possible.
So, updates will be short from here because there's not much more to do. Testament and Moo take a PLEA of 281K in the final battle to convert. I'll go ahead and set Assplodey to the Breeder. After that I'll make Metalhead the Trainer so she won't Tantrum, and that'll be Day 17.
Well, shit--should have checked this, but Assplodey and Ghast can't be Breeders. Assplodey was converted through Negotiation so her Hostility isn't high enough, and Ghast was converted through no distortions at all so her Obedience isn't high enough. I do have Haterape that can give a +21% HATE bonus, though, and that'll be good enough.
Combat 17: I notice another small bug CSdev
It looks like the Forsaken can still use Ego Murder while being Captured. I would have thought based on the description of what's going on that they'd have to be Surrounded instead. Also when they do this there's no text indicating that they've used the move, but the move shows in effect on the next combat turn. Here's some game output:
Code:
Round 1
Evacuation: 0/250 (0%) [=- ]
Extermination: 0/757 (0%) [ ]
The desperate battle continues...
[ANGEL] Release: Opening Level 0 vs. Defense Level 1
Haterape: Ready to capture target
Ego Murder: Cannot send new commands to Thralls for 5 turns
Release is fighting alone!
FEAR: 0 [Lv 0] x4(HATE)
DISG: 0 [Lv 0] x2(HATE)
PAIN: 0 [Lv 0] x2(HATE)
SHAM: 0 [Lv 0] x2(HATE)
HATE: 820 [Lv 1] x2(HATE) x1/2(highest Circ.) = x1 Total
PLEA: 80 [Lv 0] x2(HATE) x1/2(highest Circ.) = x1 Total
INJU: 60 [Lv 0] x2(HATE) x1/2(highest Circ.) = x1 Total
EXPO: 60 [Lv 0] x2(HATE) x1/2(highest Circ.) = x1 Total
Choose your action. Haterape can capture Release for 7 rounds.
---
Release doesn't take notice of Haterape quickly enough for the latter's liking, and so Haterape decides to draw her attention with the screams of murdered civilians. Release turns her head, notices the slaughter, and roars with rage and charges forward.
FEAR [-----'''''] ( 0 + 592 = 592) nervous eyes
DISG [-'''''''''] ( 0 + 179 = 179) lips curled in distaste
PAIN [--''''''''] ( 0 + 273 = 273) wincing in pain
SHAM [--''''''''] ( 0 + 230 = 230) face downturned
HATE [~~~~~~~~~-] ( 820 + 9179 = 9999) strong hatred for the Demons
PLEA ['''''''' ] ( 80 = 80) not really turned on
INJU ['''''' ] ( 60 = 60) only superficial injuries
EXPO ['''''' ] ( 60 = 60) clothes slightly disheveled
HATE up! As Haterape continues to provoke Release, her teeth are clenched in rage. Her composure completely lost, she's too caught up in the moment to calm down.
"I recognize you. I can't believe you gave it all up to serve the Demon Lord."
"My name is Haterape, and I'm the one who will kill you! Don't underestimate the power of Master!"
---
Round 2
Evacuation: 20/250 (8%) [#== ]
Extermination: 0/757 (0%) [ ]
The desperate battle continues...
[ANGEL] Release: Captured for 7 more turns
Haterape: Busy with Release
Ego Murder: Cannot send new commands to Thralls for 4 turns
Release is fighting alone!
FEAR: 592 [Lv 1] x16(HATE)
DISG: 179 [Lv 1] x4(HATE)
PAIN: 273 [Lv 1] x4(HATE)
SHAM: 230 [Lv 1] x4(HATE)
HATE: 9999 [Lv 2] x4(HATE) x1/4(highest Circ.) = x1 Total
PLEA: 80 [Lv 0] x4(HATE) x1/4(highest Circ.) = x1 Total
INJU: 60 [Lv 0] x4(HATE) x1/4(highest Circ.) = x1 Total
EXPO: 60 [Lv 0] x4(HATE) x1/4(highest Circ.) = x1 Total
Choose your action.
---
While Haterape acts as a distraction, Release is suddenly grabbed from behind by a powerful humanoid Demon with a huge cock - the Demon hand-selected by Haterape for the task of impregnating Release. Before Release can escape, Haterape steps forward, wraps her fingers around the Demon's shaft and uses her other hand to pull Release's g-string aside...
Total Morality Break
Knowing full well what will happen to her if she's impregnated by the Demon Lord, Release can't wipe the terrified expression off her face as she feels the Demon's member start to push inside her. She can't even manage to put up the paper-thin facade of eager bloodlust. She realizes too late that her willingness to murder is what weakened her soul's defenses to the point that this is even possible.
Haterape forces the Chosen down onto the Demon's cock, and Release's violent struggling only impales her onto it more deeply. Haterape has the Demon fuck Release savagely, clawing at her chest and back while Haterape whispers taunting words into her ear.
FEAR [~~--------] ( 592 + 2001 = 2593) shaking with fear
DISG [----''''''] ( 179 + 268 = 447) lips curled in distaste
PAIN [-------'''] ( 273 + 457 = 730) wincing in pain
SHAM [------''''] ( 230 + 371 = 601) face downturned
HATE [=~~~~~~~~~] ( 9999 + 8810 = 18.8k) overpowering hatred for the world
PLEA ['''''''' ] ( 80 = 80) not really turned on
INJU ['''''' ] ( 60 = 60) only superficial injuries
EXPO ['''''' ] ( 60 = 60) clothes slightly disheveled
HATE up! Unable to contain her emotions anymore, Release gives in to her rage and starts trying to lash out. She just wants this all to be over.
"Hahahah, you hate this! But you can't stop me!"
"Graaah!"
---
Round 3
Evacuation: 40/250 (16%) [###= ]
Extermination: 0/757 (0%) [ ]
The desperate battle continues...
[ANGEL] Release: Captured for 6 more turns
Haterape: Busy with Release
Ego Murder: Cannot send new commands to Thralls for 3 turns
Release is fighting alone!
FEAR: 2593 [Lv 2] x64(HATE)
DISG: 447 [Lv 1] x8(HATE)
PAIN: 730 [Lv 1] x8(HATE)
SHAM: 601 [Lv 1] x8(HATE)
HATE: 18.8k [Lv 3] x8(HATE) x1/8(highest Circ.) = x1 Total
PLEA: 80 [Lv 0] x8(HATE) x1/8(highest Circ.) = x1 Total
INJU: 60 [Lv 0] x8(HATE) x1/8(highest Circ.) = x1 Total
EXPO: 60 [Lv 0] x8(HATE) x1/8(highest Circ.) = x1 Total
Choose your action.It doesn't seem like it happens a later time when I have Release captured, so maybe it's something different that happens for Turn 1 of Combat?
But, I do get my Total Morality Break, as above. I'll also try to Tempt this fight. Edit: Not able to Tempt. But Day 18 I should be able to as Moo is weak to PLEA.
Send out Final EXPOdia.
Kind of skipping to the Final Battle here because there isn't much else that's interesting to talk about.
Final Battle: Buy up through Empathy, since Moo and Testament have Unbreakable Friendship. Send out Final EXPOdia since Moo is weak to EXPO, should enable me to get a small Orgy off of that to convert Release. Then maybe her Tempt will be enough to pull Testament up. Need to not attack Release's HATE or she will start using her special move, then I won't be able to control the fight. But as long as she stays below Level 2 HATE she shouldn't use it as it doesn't give her any benefit.
Eventually, the right sequence of moves gets me to a one-turn Orgy, converting Release. Next turn Extermination is finished, but I can Capture Testament, then Tempt her, which converts her after only a few turns. Then all that remains to see is if I can get Moo--- and yes!
So now the new ones need names, and their names should reflect what I want them to do.
Here's Release:
Code:
Release
Real name: Goto Tsubasa
Stamina: 100.0%
Motivation: 100.0%
Expertise
HATE: 30.0k (x1.060 dmg) (x1.210 dmg from Haterape's impregnation)
PLEA: 20.0k (x1.000 dmg)
INJU: 30.0k (x1.060 dmg)
EXPO: 20.0k (x1.000 dmg)
Combat Style: Sadistic (100% HATE/INJU)
Attacks without mercy, enjoying the target's suffering. Weakens most targets significantly, making further attacks even easier.
Training Plan: None
Remains idle when at full Stamina
Trait: Angel Forsaken
Provides double bonus when Spared (under Retire menu)
Trait: Dissociative Identity (Unleashed Angel)
While consenting, training can only increase Disgrace. +200% damage
Trait: Personal Paradise
Fully restore Motivation every day and deal +10% damage (from Testament)
First Impregnation: Haterape (+21.0% HATE damage)
Hostility: 64% (Pretending to be hateful toward humanity)
Deviancy: 17% (Pretending to fetishize aberrant actions)
Obedience: 28% (Pretending to be eager to obey)
Disgrace: 18% (Still somewhat respected)So if I wanted an Angel just as strong, she'd have about the same Expertise, only 1.21 from Scarring Breeder, 3.0(Averted Angel) * 1.226 (assumed Expertise)
So she'd need deployment strength of 5.23/1.226 or roughly 117%, so roughly the same cost. That means 30% more Disgrace for her, but once she's there I can free or sacrifice my Devil Chosen.
So, if I'm feeling like that's where I want her, she's going to be renamed Wrath.
Testament gives a boost to Wrath and that's her only legit purpose, so she's now wrath's vibrator. Moo is just kind of worthless... so she's the new beefcow. Maybe she'll get lucky and Splendor will offer me something I want for her freedom.
And that's how Loop 20 goes with 2 Angels.
E: Actually Splendor offered me a pretty good deal for Releasing Haterape (don't increase difficulty next Loop), so now I'm thinking I'll just let Wrath train HATE and replace her on the roster.
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- Nov 7, 2019
- 319
- 685
Thank you, I appreciate the very helpful reply. I love this game and want to fight superior species and bosses but everything after Loop 1 is mind boggling to me so I'm doing my best to learn more.
Should I be always trying to get one Tempt or Rampant in L1 so that I have a breaker for L2 or is that less important than high quality Forsaken?
- Oct 14, 2020
- 168
- 557
The rework probably won't be quite so drastic. I think that the Animalistic and Devil Forsaken gradually returning back down below 40% Obedience is enough to blunt the edge of the penalty, regular Forsaken are outgrown quickly enough that I don't mind letting it stay harsh on them, and of course Angels and Undead don't have the Obedience limit in the first place. The reward for dealing with it just needs to be more interesting and a bit stronger.
This is correct, but I wasn't sure how to explicitly get it across to the player without just vomiting a bunch of numbers on the screen. And if you manage to switch which Angel has the highest ANGST, then they'll swap their roles here too.
The way this works is intended and consistent, but I wasn't sure how to concisely explain it to the player. Basically, Angels can switch their ability on or off. While it's off, they're treated just like normal Chosen. While it's on, both allies escape faster. So, while Release and Moo are surrounded, Testament turns on her ability to help Moo, and Release just happens to benefit as well.
If all three are Surrounded, then the two Angels will both be using their abilities for the third Chosen. This means that the third Chosen escapes at triple speed, and the two Angels escape at normal speed (the stalled escape from their own ability is balanced out by the faster escape from their Angel partner's ability).
The flavor explanation is that the Angels' abilities don't actually result from their own willful actions. The surround duration effects are caused by the Angels' unearthly beauty causing the Thralls to ignore your orders and just generally act unwise, chasing them around even when there's not actually any opportunity to Surround them. The trauma absorption effect is a psychic thing where the Angels soak up any nearby unhappiness in order to turn any ground beneath their feet into a de facto enclave of Heaven.Also I'm not sure I like this, but maybe it's working the way you want it to:
View attachment 3623457
Thematically, it makes sense that I can't target Release at all if she's giving everything she's got to flee the battlefield. But if she's doing that, she can't really be helping Testament escape, right? Like, she's described in this way:
View attachment 3623458
So, I'm not sure how she's helping Testament escape. This is at least partially a thematic thing more than a mechanical thing of course and you can handle it whatever way keeps it how you feel it should be balanced. It makes sense to me that Angels that are catatonic might not want to absorb the Trauma of their fellows and that a panicked fleeing Angel wouldn't be able to help her comrades escape, but if it needs to be that way for balance then you can write some explanation. Basically if she's still helping with the combat I feel I should be able to target her with at least standard attacks
I guess it could be funny to write some alternate flavor text where selfish or psychologically-damaged Angels are doing their best to be selfish, but they just can't help but brighten the lives of those around them.
Gameplay-wise, I just don't want to add more one-off exceptions to rules. It's better to keep things consistent when possible. If I were to weaken Angel abilities, I'd want to do so in more of a broad way that applies even before Distortions come into play.
When Chosen are deciding whether to use their T1 Break abilities, they look at the expected damage they'll reach in each circumstance, and if it's higher than a certain value (which is close to 10k), then the excess is added as a "weight" for that the moves that counteract that damage. So, if HATE is going to go above roughly 10k, then the difference is added as weight to Violence and Hiding. The base weight for Minor Vulnerabilities is higher than for Core ones (as the Chosen sacrifice the things they don't care about in order to protect those they do).
However, Violence can also pick up weight from INJU damage, and Hiding can also pick up weight from EXPO damage. So, if you're also dealing enough INJU damage to approach 10k, then that can push the Chosen to accept Morality Break before Dignity Break.
I'd recommend getting comfortable with inpainting. This is easiest if you're using the AUTOMATIC1111 webui, but ComfyUI can do it too. Don't just select the whole face for inpainting (at least at first) - a denoising strength high enough to change the expression will also be high enough to change the fundamental features of the face and make it look like someone else. You actually have to think about what the expression should look like and just inpaint the parts that need to change. Then, a second img2img pass at lower denoising strength can help smooth over any inconsistencies at the boundary.
Ideally, you should also be comfortable with doing manual drawing to get the image as close to what you're imagining as you can before turning it over to the AI. There are limits to what you can achieve with prompting alone.
Yep, that's a display bug. The game isn't refreshing whether the Angels' abilities are on or off until it's time to actually process the turn. I'll have that fixed in the next version.
What seems to have happened here is that the Ego Murder duration wasn't reset at the end of the previous fight. Sorry for not catching this bug sooner, since it seems like it could be a real pain in the ass. I'll have it fixed in R54.
Thank you for sharing it! It's interesting how the Angels' abilities can still be so easily bypassed by an early Forsaken blitz. The surround disruption doesn't stop you from getting Breaks directly with your Forsaken, and an early Distortion can give you enough EE that you don't care too much about the trauma absorption decreasing your EE generation. Getting T3 Breaks is still tough, but if the Chosen are Distorted anyway, then you can win without them.
If I were going to tweak Angel balance based on this, then I'd want to make their abilities a bit more resilient to early Forsaken use, while maybe toning down the trauma absorption a bit. But allowing the Angel ability to also affect Capture duration would be way, way too strong. Maybe it's fine to leave it as it is and just say that a loop with Angels is "fairly easy to beat, but hard to get good Punisher value from." That still makes them pretty scary in the long term for a player who's looking to ramp up their power further for the endgame.
Yeah, by asking myself questions and making predictions I did eventually get to this realization.
Sure, I get the idea of keeping it consistent with whatever explanation works, just wanted to share that it feels a bit bad right now with one status showing them panicked fleeing and another status showing they're still helping their allies escape. Just a flavor thing, mostly.
This makes it clear to me what's been happening, so thanks! As I said to the person asking the question, if the order of the breaks is important to me, I just make sure to hit other circumstances and often on the next Surround the one I actually wanted to break will do so.
Eh, I mostly Capture at the beginning of a fight so I can see how it's easy to miss. Even I had to scroll back up and see "hey when did the Ego Murder start?" because I released the Angel early to try to get her to Ego Murder again (which I didn't actually need to do, she'll repeat it just fine while surrounded).
Yeah I think it's fine where they're at. Where I'd be concerned is--can Angels and Devils mix in a loop? I don't think I've seen that offered before but it seems like that'd be a damn-near impossible combination. The Angel would absorb Angst from the Devil, lowering the minimum damage the Devil takes, and raising her own Angst, further raising the damage resistance on the Devil.
Edit: I just got offered one. I don't think it's doable based on how I see it working.
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