Java Corrupted Saviors [Release 58] [CSDev]

[DoomSatan]

CSdev that sounds amazing and is much more than i could have hoped. I a looking forward where you will take us with your game.
And you probably heard that a lot already, but it is really nice to see a GameDev thats so active and in touch here on this and in other forums. So cheers and keep up the good work, but dont stress yourself too much

 

[Kalloi]

From a flavor perspective, being able to Tempt one of the Chosen represents there being some degree of trust there, and I think it's important to be able to break that trust. From a game balance perspective, hitting pretty much arbitrary levels of circumstance damage is practically trivial by the endgame, and I don't want it to ever be trivial to achieve a Distortion. It's probably a bit too hard right now, but it should still always be at least a little bit tricky. In this setting, Demons and Devils are two very different things. The short version is that Angels exist to guide the righteous, while Devils exist to punish the wicked. They hate each other's guts, but they both recognize that the Demons (who exist to guide the wicked and punish the righteous) are their mutual enemy. That said, there is a Distortion planned where you can turn one of the Chosen into a partial Demon. I suppose that means you could have a Devil Demon Chosen... I took a look, but my IDE kicked out an error and refused to parse it as a save file. I'm not sure if the file got corrupted or what, but I'm afraid it's beyond my abilities to fix. Sorry. They are indeed multiplied, so a Superior Tempted Forsaken deals 225% PLEA/EXPO and 150% everything else. They're really cute, I like them a lot! It's hard to describe how nice it feels to see someone's original art in the game. They add a lot of personality. Absolutely looking forward to seeing the full sets and hosting them on the blog if you'd like. Just so you know what to expect, I'll probably be reworking how Chosen names are generated at some point, and I'll probably aim to have slightly more than the current 48 names for randomly generated ones. The current 1 extra name belongs to a "static" storyline-related Chosen who currently only appears in one scene. Being able to put a whole bunch of customized Chosen into the campaign mode is a feature that I'm hoping to implement within the next few releases. I don't think it'll ever be possible to guarantee "only" customized Chosen, because there's always the chance that you'll survive for too many loops and start running out of customized Chosen to face. But the more custom Chosen you design before you start, the fewer generic Chosen you'll run into. I plan on including several types of Elite Chosen, each with their own set of unique mechanics sort of along these lines. Being able to completely customize the multipliers outside of those pre-defined modifier sets might take longer to be implemented, but I think that the different Elite types should be varied enough to let you find something that fits most established characters.

Thank you!!!! It really means a lot to me to hear that you like the designs of the characters so far! And I really don’t mind doing this since besides having cute characters I designed showing in battle it also feels like a nice way to repay this appreciation I have for the fun times I spent with the game and learning things as well as your hard work to the game and listening to feedback.

I will say I’m “Kalloi” on your blog and the subscribestar so all those questions I asked on there about the image set mechanics were really helpful in the prepwork and drawing thank you again for answering all of them!

I have the concepts done for 7 more characters and a couple costume designs for each character and Two character types I need to sketch out. (A goth styled character and a Kawaii pop styled kind of character)

if you have any design ideas you’d think would cool or that you would just like to see for me to make feel free to let me know and I will get on it!
Not only since you’re the developing the game but also it’s fun designing characters myself but I’m always happy to hear other people’s design ideas, and the variety will keep things fresh for people using the pack as well I hope!

Especially since you’re planning on reworking how chosen names are generated and increasing the pool of them so I’ll take multiple designs from anyone if they want to contribute some

If you don’t mind me asking though, how will the name generation be changed?

Currently my design philosophy for designing character’s color schemes as well as their expressions was to use their name in addition to the personality archetype that usually is given that name as the primary color and give them a unique secondary color that will be for accenting their primary color and also used as the basis for their superior color scheme

Ie. The blue character design uses blue since that’s her personality archetype and name’s like “miracle” are usually the pure personality type so that’s why her anger expression is very pouty than vicious or malicious
Her superior variant is primarily white since her secondary color in her chosen form is white

and I applied this to the other designs as well with them having varying shades of red/blue/green depending on my initial design ideas for them and the superior versions of them being everything thing from White to black to yellow

But a flaw in this design philosophy I realized recently is some names flip colors in the games depending on the personality type so an “Eidolon” that’s green sometimes might be red in another one.

I’m still thinking of sticking to my current design philosophy though unless the name generation will change drastically and it will be hard to tell what colors the name pool will be so if you can give some insight into some of the changes you’re thinking of implementing I would appreciate it a lot to hear them!

And one more thing I forgot to ask while you were developing the portrait system was that will there be support for male Versions the characters once something like a “body shift” happens
I understand if you don’t plan on doing so since that might require a lot of work for something people might not care to use

Im heading to work now but I was also curious about that static image in the image pack it felt ominous in a cool sort of way so thank you for explaining what that was haha

take care and I hope you and everyone else here haves a great day!

 

[Kalloi]

all three but im a bit lost what to do with the forsaken...

Oh hell yeah man congratulations!! Im happy your run ended so well and that we were able to help!
And with the forsaken they are mor or less “trophies” or the results of your labor and how they are corrupted are based on the vulnerabilities you broken on them and the what vulnerabilities are core/minor/significant on that particular one, other than free training you can’t do too much with them outside of campaign mode. If you’re feeling good after a this run I recommend trying out campaign mode since forsaken are far more important in that mode!

 

[BerglorMan94]

all three but im a bit lost what to do with the forsaken...

At the moment there's not a whole lot you can do with them because they're incomplete. You can do some training with them to try and influence their stats, but it's difficult to do so with only the first 2 levels of training available. Forsaken can be used as alternatives to Commanders, and tend to be pretty useful at different stages of the game. A basic rule of thumb is that the lower they cost, the weaker they are. Lower cost Forsaken are good early game but are weaker, and higher cost Forsaken (I have a few in my campaign run that cost over 115 EE) are much more powerful. I'm not yet very familiar with training Forsaken so I probably wont be too much of a help in this regard.

 

[theirl]

Oh hell yeah man congratulations!! Im happy your run ended so well and that we were able to help!
And with the forsaken they are mor or less “trophies” or the results of your labor and how they are corrupted are based on the vulnerabilities you broken on them and the what vulnerabilities are core/minor/significant on that particular one, other than free training you can’t do too much with them outside of campaign mode. If you’re feeling good after a this run I recommend trying out campaign mode since forsaken are far more important in that mode!

Oh but it was i campaign mode i wanted a full hypnosis run from the start if i knew i would not have broken them with slime + ... Their cost is 18;38;42

 

[theirl]

At the moment there's not a whole lot you can do with them because they're incomplete. You can do some training with them to try and influence their stats, but it's difficult to do so with only the first 2 levels of training available. Forsaken can be used as alternatives to Commanders, and tend to be pretty useful at different stages of the game. A basic rule of thumb is that the lower they cost, the weaker they are. Lower cost Forsaken are good early game but are weaker, and higher cost Forsaken (I have a few in my campaign run that cost over 115 EE) are much more powerful. I'm not yet very familiar with training Forsaken so I probably wont be too much of a help in this regard.

How do i know if its better to use a demon or forsaken... In my opnion its more consistent to use a demon to progress than forsaken... Maybe im doing something wrong

 

[BerglorMan94]

How do i know if its better to use a demon or forsaken... In my opnion its more consistent to use a demon to progress than forsaken... Maybe im doing something wrong

It's difficult to say, honestly. They're good for different reasons than a Commander. They don't have a limit to how many times you can use them, they last longer than all but the highest upgraded Commander, they (usually) do multiple types of damage, and can do MASSIVE amounts of damage if they're Superior, Tempted, or both. They're main downside... Is that they cost SO much. Most of the Forsaken end up costing far more EE than you can get in return unless you're able to get some high tier breaks while they're active. Fortunately, theyre usually strong enough to facilitate that. Early game it's best to avoid them in favor of low tier Commanders, but mid game it may be better to just forgo getting upgrades for a while to buy a Forsaken for a big day to get a lot of breaks at once. That said, I can't test this very well because of how my Forsaken have turned out... All but one of them are so fucking expensive... Anyways! I hope this has been at least somewhat helpful.

 

[tpk]

ok, starting to try the save given by Ragsmu. will edit later

day 10-16: buy patience, perception, cunning, persistence, intelligence.

day 17: did basically the thing I said (just with 4 turns, as I don't have enough moneh) reaper got to level 2 plea.

day 18: repeated the thing but after the first reaper capture went for inju and mirage in level 1 expo with a 2 turn capture, got level 2 on inju.

as a comment: i know this is about reaper, but we need the money, tried some things to focus on reaper, but getting more EE is better in the long run

day 19: went against mirage (commander ambush 4 turns, 2 captures) pummel, grind, caress, humiliate. reaper appears, capture reaper, humilate, back to mirage, grind, humiliate, do not caress and pummel. honestly,I think I fucked up here, as I used the second capture on reaper earlier so idk how you are going to use that one. again, make sure to keep 1 capture before mirage ends, capture her again humiliate, grind. mirage is level 2 expo and got 5 points constatly (sort of).

went to eat something brb

day 20: freedom's turn (commander ambush 5 turns 2 captures) pummel, caress, grind, humiliate. you know the deal: reaper appears, capture her, expo on her, back on freedom. freedom grind, pummel, caress, do not humiliate. when freedom is about to finish capture someone (if i'm not wrong you could capture reaper right here), and go grind, pummel, caress, do not humiliate. you should have freedom over level 2 and maybe even with the next tier broken, and you could end with 26. sadly freedom and reaper are friends now (if they are enemies it would give you more points, but don't worry, we'll fix that).

I must say, this 'guide' (honestly I'm pretty bad at explaining) will try to absolutely destroy all vulnerabilities eventually.

day 21-22: just stacking EE.

day 23: went after reaper (commander ambush 6 turns 2 captures) go grind pummel caress humiliate. you know the deal, just remember that freedom is humiliate first then pummel. back with reaper now repeat the first combo. capture another chosen and then repeat on reaper. now she has plea tier 2 broken and significant expo tier 2. she is friends with mirage (again, we will fix that later).

day 24: just wait day.

day 25: now you exactly have for a commander with 6 turns and 3 captures. I will leave this part here because when you get the uses of the commander, things can get pretty crazy.

this nonsense guide will continue in another comment!...

I just realized that I didn't put what upgrades did I buy some days...

well just know that they were in the days that I waited and just the ones that upgraded the commander

day 26: start with mirage (commander 3 captures 6 turns ambush) go pummel, grind, caress, humiliate. this time, make reaper have 1 turn of capture (1 attack, do not use commander) and then do the trick. it should be a 7 turn capture in mirage, go grind, pummel, humiliate, no caress. use the commander on freedom, go humiliate and pummel, then commander reaper humiliate, grind. another free capture on mirage, go humiliate, grind, pummel, caress if you want. now you wait until the last turn, and use a special action (don't do sodomize or force orgasm). mirage's significant vuln tier 2 is now broken and she has expo in tier 2. no extra points, but 6 constantly.

day 27-29: buy vengeful reconstitution, human collaborators, and casual projection. just wait.

mirage is the weakest in their team, so that is where we are going to start

day 30: go mirage (commander 5 turns 3 capture) pummel, grind, humiliate, caress. commander on freedom go humiliate->pain, then commander on reaper go grind->humiliate. recapture mirage go pummel, humiliate,grind. then try to build up another capture on freedom (1 on all trauma) humiliate, try to get another capture on reaper but don't capture her yet. use the third capture on mirage go humilate, pummel, grind. now capture reaper and go humiliate and grind. eventually go should get broadcast on mirage.

day 30 is an intermission, where you can get EE points if you corrupt the team enough, we are only getting +5 EE because we only have mirage with high corruption.

at the end, mirage has core and significant vuln broken, and is rivals with freedom. we got 26 points in a single day. that is pretty good (for now).

day 31-33: here we wait. buy dominance, and after 1 day Networked Consciousness.

At this point in the game, you have 2 upgrades that are considerable power spikes: reality sealing (if you use special commanders), and Networked Consciousness (if you use the normal commander). we are gonna use networked consciousness. it basically gives you 1 free action per capture, including ambush.

day 34: use full commander on anybody, you should focus on just increasing trauma, just to make it so you get +9 EE per day.

day 35: another day another dollar.

day 36: time to fuck over reaper. I will show you why Networked Consciousness is so strong with a normal commander.

start on reaper with a full commander (right now, mine is 3 captures 6 turns) use grind, humiliate, caress, pummel.

commander on freedom right away, humiliate, pummel.

capture reaper pummel, grind, humiliate. back with freedom, use caress.

commander mirage and go humiliate.

capture freedom grind. reaper caress.

recapture reaper, go pummel. freedom humiliate. mirage grind.

capture freedom, go humiliate and grind. reaper grind.

capture mirage humiliate, pummel, grind. reaper should be out of the surrounding, try to get as many extra turns before mirage's capture ends.

capture reaper go pummel, caress, humiliate, grind. in the end, you could use sodomize or forced orgasm, your choice. I recommend forced orgasm.

that's 8 free turns.

reaper got the pleasure vuln tier 2 and another with the pain vuln.

day 37: kind of a repeat from the last day, but this time is easier as reaper has more trauma and you already broke a tier 2 core. so repear, just do the one that you didn´t pick last time. some reaper captures (like the last one) got an extra turn from the extra damage.

after this, you should have 12 EE per day. I must say, reaper is a tough bitch, after a pain core vuln tier 2 break and she only has 2 lines in the weakness screen.

day 38: now with freedom

start with a full commander and go pummel, caress, grind, humiliate.

commander reaper humiliate, grind.

capture freedom grind, caress. reaper caress, pummel.

commander mirage, humiliate.

capture reaper, pummel, caress, grind.

capture freedom pummel, humialiate. mirage grind. hit mirage with an attack to cause pain lvl 1.

capture mirage grind, pummel, humiliate. (I has to do this twice, because I forgot to write what I did, I think this is how I did it) somewhere around here freedom had inseminate (10k+ hate), use it right away, but make sure that reaper or mirage are captured when freedom finishes.

in the last reaper capture, you can also have her go forced orgasm or sodomize. I recommend Forced orgasm

Capture freedom, if you did the inseminate before she finished the last capture, then you could go force orgasm, sodomize, or broadcast. in my second playthrough I didn't, because I forgot to do it.

reaper is now rivals with freedom, and you get 15 EE per day.

day 39: buy reality sealing. and just wait

day 40: full commander and go against freedom. and do the same as before: go pummel, caress, grind, humiliate.

commander reaper humiliate, grind.

capture freedom grind, caress. reaper caress, pummel.

commander mirage, humiliate.

capture reaper, pummel, caress, grind.

capture freedom pummel, humialiate. mirage grind. hit mirage with an attack to cause pain lvl 1.

capture mirage grind, pummel, humiliate.

I did something different (again) but you can still deal the the 10k in one circumstance, so break one significant one.

capture reaper, go grind, pummel, humiliate, caress. you can use broadcast eventually.

day 41: now the objective is to get all of them over 100M+ on a core circumstance. and it starts late game (sort-of)

I will continue tomorrow

 

[Danieri]

After the tips given by rizldiz3l I managed to progress in a new game as I wanted and managed to make all of the chosen rivals or bitter rivals. Also, I managed after many mistakes (wasting days and EE without breaking anything) to progress up to the point where I broke two Tier 4 Morality vulnerabilities (Core and Significant) before the final battle. Finally, I managed to capture one Chosen while the pregnant one got killed and the last one flee away. I´m somewhat pleased with how things ended, but there are two things that bother me.

1. I couldn´t break ANY of the Tier 3 vulnerabilities on my "Red Chosen", and Tier 2 were already pretty hard to break. The problem was that all of them were "Reach 10M (Tier 2)-1G (Tier 3) Unresolved trauma" for EVERY vulnerability, leading to a situation where I couldn´t break anything because I just couldn´t reach that much trauma due to low multipliers. Managed to break Tier 2 after getting maxxed commanders on captured turns and extra captures. (I broke the T4! vulnerabilities on other chosens before T2 on Red Chosen)

2. This might be related to point 1, but I just don´t understand how to use commander "upgrades" (Defiler, punisher...). What ends happening is that the Chosen ends up in a cycle where she only stacks 1 type of trauma, locking every other since the multipliers end at x0. Any tip on how to use these specialized commanders?

 

[tpk]

After the tips given by rizldiz3l I managed to progress in a new game as I wanted and managed to make all of the chosen rivals or bitter rivals. Also, I managed after many mistakes (wasting days and EE without breaking anything) to progress up to the point where I broke two Tier 4 Morality vulnerabilities (Core and Significant) before the final battle. Finally, I managed to capture one Chosen while the pregnant one got killed and the last one flee away. I´m somewhat pleased with how things ended, but there are two things that bother me.

1. I couldn´t break ANY of the Tier 3 vulnerabilities on my "Red Chosen", and Tier 2 were already pretty hard to break. The problem was that all of them were "Reach 10M (Tier 2)-1G (Tier 3) Unresolved trauma" for EVERY vulnerability, leading to a situation where I couldn´t break anything because I just couldn´t reach that much trauma due to low multipliers. Managed to break Tier 2 after getting maxxed commanders on captured turns and extra captures. (I broke the T4! vulnerabilities on other chosens before T2 on Red Chosen)

2. This might be related to point 1, but I just don´t understand how to use commander "upgrades" (Defiler, punisher...). What ends happening is that the Chosen ends up in a cycle where she only stacks 1 type of trauma, locking every other since the multipliers end at x0. Any tip on how to use these specialized commanders?

1.- if you capture 2 chosen with the same extra action when you capture them with 10+ circumstance (inseminate, forced orgasm, sodomize, broadcast) it adds another multiplier, and it increases the base value (I think).

you could try using this to see if you can get there.

2.- neither do I, so I kinda just use the normal ones xD

 

[tpk]

I just realized that I didn't put what upgrades did I buy some days...

well just know that they were in the days that I waited and just the ones that upgraded the commander

day 26: start with mirage (commander 3 captures 6 turns ambush) go pummel, grind, caress, humiliate. this time, make reaper have 1 turn of capture (1 attack, do not use commander) and then do the trick. it should be a 7 turn capture in mirage, go grind, pummel, humiliate, no caress. use the commander on freedom, go humiliate and pummel, then commander reaper humiliate, grind. another free capture on mirage, go humiliate, grind, pummel, caress if you want. now you wait until the last turn, and use a special action (don't do sodomize or force orgasm). mirage's significant vuln tier 2 is now broken and she has expo in tier 2. no extra points, but 6 constantly.

day 27-29: buy vengeful reconstitution, human collaborators, and casual projection. just wait.

mirage is the weakest in their team, so that is where we are going to start

day 30: go mirage (commander 5 turns 3 capture) pummel, grind, humiliate, caress. commander on freedom go humiliate->pain, then commander on reaper go grind->humiliate. recapture mirage go pummel, humiliate,grind. then try to build up another capture on freedom (1 on all trauma) humiliate, try to get another capture on reaper but don't capture her yet. use the third capture on mirage go humilate, pummel, grind. now capture reaper and go humiliate and grind. eventually go should get broadcast on mirage.

day 30 is an intermission, where you can get EE points if you corrupt the team enough, we are only getting +5 EE because we only have mirage with high corruption.

at the end, mirage has core and significant vuln broken, and is rivals with freedom. we got 26 points in a single day. that is pretty good (for now).

day 31-33: here we wait. buy dominance, and after 1 day Networked Consciousness.

At this point in the game, you have 2 upgrades that are considerable power spikes: reality sealing (if you use special commanders), and Networked Consciousness (if you use the normal commander). we are gonna use networked consciousness. it basically gives you 1 free action per capture, including ambush.

day 34: use full commander on anybody, you should focus on just increasing trauma, just to make it so you get +9 EE per day.

day 35: another day another dollar.

day 36: time to fuck over reaper. I will show you why Networked Consciousness is so strong with a normal commander.

start on reaper with a full commander (right now, mine is 3 captures 6 turns) use grind, humiliate, caress, pummel.

commander on freedom right away, humiliate, pummel.

capture reaper pummel, grind, humiliate. back with freedom, use caress.

commander mirage and go humiliate.

capture freedom grind. reaper caress.

recapture reaper, go pummel. freedom humiliate. mirage grind.

capture freedom, go humiliate and grind. reaper grind.

capture mirage humiliate, pummel, grind. reaper should be out of the surrounding, try to get as many extra turns before mirage's capture ends.

capture reaper go pummel, caress, humiliate, grind. in the end, you could use sodomize or forced orgasm, your choice. I recommend forced orgasm.

that's 8 free turns.

reaper got the pleasure vuln tier 2 and another with the pain vuln.

day 37: kind of a repeat from the last day, but this time is easier as reaper has more trauma and you already broke a tier 2 core. so repear, just do the one that you didn´t pick last time. some reaper captures (like the last one) got an extra turn from the extra damage.

after this, you should have 12 EE per day. I must say, reaper is a tough bitch, after a pain core vuln tier 2 break and she only has 2 lines in the weakness screen.

day 38: now with freedom

start with a full commander and go pummel, caress, grind, humiliate.

commander reaper humiliate, grind.

capture freedom grind, caress. reaper caress, pummel.

commander mirage, humiliate.

capture reaper, pummel, caress, grind.

capture freedom pummel, humialiate. mirage grind. hit mirage with an attack to cause pain lvl 1.

capture mirage grind, pummel, humiliate. (I has to do this twice, because I forgot to write what I did, I think this is how I did it) somewhere around here freedom had inseminate (10k+ hate), use it right away, but make sure that reaper or mirage are captured when freedom finishes.

in the last reaper capture, you can also have her go forced orgasm or sodomize. I recommend Forced orgasm

Capture freedom, if you did the inseminate before she finished the last capture, then you could go force orgasm, sodomize, or broadcast. in my second playthrough I didn't, because I forgot to do it.

reaper is now rivals with freedom, and you get 15 EE per day.

day 39: buy reality sealing. and just wait

day 40: full commander and go against freedom. and do the same as before: go pummel, caress, grind, humiliate.

commander reaper humiliate, grind.

capture freedom grind, caress. reaper caress, pummel.

commander mirage, humiliate.

capture reaper, pummel, caress, grind.

capture freedom pummel, humialiate. mirage grind. hit mirage with an attack to cause pain lvl 1.

capture mirage grind, pummel, humiliate.

I did something different (again) but you can still deal the the 10k in one circumstance, so break one significant one.

capture reaper, go grind, pummel, humiliate, caress. you can use broadcast eventually.

day 41: now the objective is to get all of them over 100M+ on a core circumstance. and it starts late game (sort-of)

I will continue tomorrow

leaving the save in case you wanna try the late game

 

[BerglorMan94]

After the tips given by rizldiz3l I managed to progress in a new game as I wanted and managed to make all of the chosen rivals or bitter rivals. Also, I managed after many mistakes (wasting days and EE without breaking anything) to progress up to the point where I broke two Tier 4 Morality vulnerabilities (Core and Significant) before the final battle. Finally, I managed to capture one Chosen while the pregnant one got killed and the last one flee away. I´m somewhat pleased with how things ended, but there are two things that bother me.

1. I couldn´t break ANY of the Tier 3 vulnerabilities on my "Red Chosen", and Tier 2 were already pretty hard to break. The problem was that all of them were "Reach 10M (Tier 2)-1G (Tier 3) Unresolved trauma" for EVERY vulnerability, leading to a situation where I couldn´t break anything because I just couldn´t reach that much trauma due to low multipliers. Managed to break Tier 2 after getting maxxed commanders on captured turns and extra captures. (I broke the T4! vulnerabilities on other chosens before T2 on Red Chosen)

2. This might be related to point 1, but I just don´t understand how to use commander "upgrades" (Defiler, punisher...). What ends happening is that the Chosen ends up in a cycle where she only stacks 1 type of trauma, locking every other since the multipliers end at x0. Any tip on how to use these specialized commanders?

So for point 2, I have a little bit of insight that I got from a conversation with CSDev a while back, and some theories that I haven't been able to test out yet because of it.

For Suppressors, they're good early game for getting one or two specific circumstances to lvl 1. Usually best when used to increase a core circumstance, and with only 2 rounds per capture. Maybe 3 if you're not getting the results you want.

Defilers are good for softening a Chosen after they've already got a little bit of work done on them from earlier surrounds. They do high damage to 2 circumstances and can get Tier 2 breaks, which is the hint as to when they're useful. That said, they're bad to open up with because they only focus 2 circumstances, making their damage plummet very quickly.

Punishers are basically just for Tier 4 breaks. They do very high damage, but to only 1 circumstance, making them very weak as an opener unless you're using them for a quick Tier 4 break.

Synthesis raises the power level of Commanders considerably. Using a Commander with both a Defiler and Suppressor is very powerful. Powerful enough that using it as a starter is strong enough to keep your damage consistent even when leaving out one circumstance. Just all around good for weakening a Chosen at the start and getting a second Chosen pulverized after they're done with the first. Easily gets long surround turns on release, can break Tier 2 vulnerabilities, and keeps its high damage throughout the entire capture.

Completion is exactly that. A completed Commander body, and it is when you're at your most powerful since you can deal damage to every circumstance at once, which keeps your damage both high, and consistent. Can get all Tier breaks.

I feel like every Commander before a Synthesis commander is meant to be used as an ambush later on in the fight to give you a small edge against a specific Chosen, or be the push necessary to get a Tier 2 break. That said... I haven't been able to play lately so I haven't had the chance to test out my theories. If anyone wants to give these ideas a whirl, please let me know how it goes! I'm gonna try to find the time to test these out on a Custom run rather than my campaign mode save. I'll get back to you guys if I figure out something new!

 

[Ragsmu]

leaving the save in case you wanna try the late game

Thanx, i will save it and check it out later, though right now i am mainly trying to figure things myseld based on all that info, you guys were a lot of help and i do appreciate it.
Also waiting for your ending on my save file, i am really interested what will come out of it in someone else's hands

 

[Kalloi]

After the tips given by rizldiz3l I managed to progress in a new game as I wanted and managed to make all of the chosen rivals or bitter rivals. Also, I managed after many mistakes (wasting days and EE without breaking anything) to progress up to the point where I broke two Tier 4 Morality vulnerabilities (Core and Significant) before the final battle. Finally, I managed to capture one Chosen while the pregnant one got killed and the last one flee away. I´m somewhat pleased with how things ended, but there are two things that bother me.

1. I couldn´t break ANY of the Tier 3 vulnerabilities on my "Red Chosen", and Tier 2 were already pretty hard to break. The problem was that all of them were "Reach 10M (Tier 2)-1G (Tier 3) Unresolved trauma" for EVERY vulnerability, leading to a situation where I couldn´t break anything because I just couldn´t reach that much trauma due to low multipliers. Managed to break Tier 2 after getting maxxed commanders on captured turns and extra captures. (I broke the T4! vulnerabilities on other chosens before T2 on Red Chosen)

2. This might be related to point 1, but I just don´t understand how to use commander "upgrades" (Defiler, punisher...). What ends happening is that the Chosen ends up in a cycle where she only stacks 1 type of trauma, locking every other since the multipliers end at x0. Any tip on how to use these specialized commanders?

1. I 100% agree with what tpk said, using the same defiler action at the same time with another chosen is one of the best ways to reach those t3 thresholds and as you break more t3 the requirements for the next t3 increases so group actions are helpful especially since you had them become rivals/bitter enemies which gives a higher multiplier. If you can manage it, trying to get an orgy going on (surrounding all three chosen and using the same defiler action on them at once) Can make it very easy to reach those thresholds even if the orgy lasts for 1-2 turns since the relationship multiplier will apply again since all three chosen are involved. And since it's all 4 circumstances damage active that means all those t2 breaks you did to a chosen will come in handy. So long as you plan properly you should break those when you have the chance unless you have a conflicting goal.

My tip is that once a t2 vulnerability is broken with a defiler action, if you use a different defiler action that raises a circumstance damage associated with that the t2 vulnerability you broken before and that damage goes past 10k it will add a multiplier to current defiler action.

Ie. If you broke t2 morality on a chosen before in the run (a.k.a inseminate) or they are just on that tier already and you decided to use Broadcast on them. Once they are past 10k hate they will be inseminated while being broadcasted which gives 2x bonus.

And the thing is this mechanic stacks so if you have a chosen who's been sodomized, inseminated, and you do broadcast + (when you broadcast with another chosen in the same surround turn) That is 2x, 2x, 2x, and another multiplier for the relationship as well if I'm remembering my math correctly.

So doing group defiler actions is really important for reaching the t3 thresholds and be sure to break as many t2 vulnerabilities before you plan to maximize your damage

And this tip leads me to my second answer about commanders

2. I still use specialty commanders in my runs and in fact I used to use them exclusively before campaign mode and I was forced to learn more about forsaken so hopefully my previous stubbornness helps you

Basically BerglorMan94's theories are spot-on, at least in my experience of utilizing them.

Suppressor excel in raising one turn circumstance and when trying break core vulnerabilities, I typically use them either in the beginning of a battle via ambush or towards the end of the battle to break a core vulnerabilities. The scenarios I use them in the beginning depends mostly on the chosen and who has a minor morality or minor confidence.
Since those will raise stupid high on them you can butter them up with only one suppressor and a extra turn duration, especially if it's HATE.

Defilers I purely use them either towards the end or the middle of a battle and these are mostly to get t2 breaks on tricky chosen or especially so when you are trying to aim for a tempt on a chosen.

Since you can't break t1 morality to unlock tempt on a chosen you have to be really careful on how you surround them, if you have some good damage on them with some saucy multipliers on them they may have a t1 morality break on the first pummel and grind you do and its a real ass blaster since not only HATE is so integral to getting higher multipliers but you have to be careful with even INJU since pummel is tied to breaking t1 morality also

However the work around for this is commanders

Since technically you didn't pummel and grind on them, its the commander raising that. And you can even outsmart the chosen and get them past 10k HATE this way

Hunger is good for building hate but the Defiler Dominance is good depending if the confidence is a minor compared to innocence since the PLEA multipliers won't get out of hand that way easily.

And my personal go-to for tempt is Vanity since not only it builds up HATE without worries of t1 morality break but the EXPO also helps with a multiplier for other chosen so if you have another charge and planned well you might be able to get that second chosen's EXPO to 10k which means they will instantly go into broadcast by your commander without you having to waste a turn to activate it. Giving you that extra time needed to work on your target. It's also viable to do it the other way around as well.

So with Defilers' the beauty with them is the two circumstance damage like Berglorman said and the additional perk of defiler activating on it's own once it meet requirements. Think of this way. Networked consciousness is so good because you can instantly pick an action when you surround a chosen and this saves you turns that you can spend targeting someone else
or just doubling down on that chosen harder and faster, Defilers accomplish something similar by giving you one less thing to worry about . And versality is poor man's defiler with the additional perk of making a commander not typically available via Defilers and that is a commander who raises HATE/INJU at the same time, a potentially delicious combination depending on your run.

Also if a Defiler does the first t2 break on the chosen their profile mentions how you did it specifically as a demon lord which I think is neat. I wish it would still keep that part somehow even after the chosen is in t3/t4 mode though

Anyways Punishers are good for the obvious reasons of breaking the final vulnerability on a chosen, but actually they have quite the viability even before they reach the proper threshold.

And I mean that in two ways

The first way is The multiplier still applies to them even before they reach 100% and so they can get some really high numbers and it only increases as the corrupted chosen does more of their special corrupted moves.
Starting an ambush with one for a decent amount of turns can be just as or even more viable than using a normal commander or even a synthesis commander if you're using the right commander

And the second more useful way in that moment is that it can really help speed up the chosen to reach 100% effectiveness for the final break.

So for example, if you going for impregnation on a chosen and she is spamming slaughter as they tend to do.
Every time she uses slaughter it raises her HATE level to the next level no matter what and the depending on the level of her current HATE it adds more percentage to punisher effectiveness.

Starting off with ambushing her with impregnation and letting the multiplier raise her HATE up to HATE level 3 before the battle really begins is really helpful and there are times I've had effectiveness go up 200% a battle and higher with this strategy.

Oh and the added bonus like the suppressors is that it costs nothing to equip them so you can make a low cost commander with only 7EE absolutely rinsing chosen that were a little too murder happy and honestly it works somewhat well on chosen who haven't even gotten to t3 yet.
The same strategy can apply to all punishers and I recommend trying it out and seeing if it works for you!

And now we get to the synthesis and completion and this really where the tip I said about breaking t2 vulnerabilities really comes in handy.

Once a defiler commander activates their defiler moves it functions like a true defiler.

so that means the multipliers that apply to using it normally it will apply to them too

And with synthesis you can add another circumstance damage and then you basically have the equivalent of surronding 2 chosen in terms of multipliers once everything reaches 10k damage and with something like a Vanity commander with INJU added that becomes really easy to hit really quickly.

The only difference is there isn't a relationship bonus like with surrounded two chosen with a defiler


However that came made up once you have completion in the mix that effectiveness multliplier is going to boost everything up in no time.

I hope what I added to the discussion helps and gets people interested with experimenting with Speciality commanders

I will go back to drawing now since I'm almost finished with the third character and once that's done I'll upload my pack so people can try it if they're interested!

 

[Kalloi]

leaving the save in case you wanna try the late game

I haven't finished my run yet but I'm still going to try your save ty!

 

[Kalloi]

It's difficult to say, honestly. They're good for different reasons than a Commander. They don't have a limit to how many times you can use them, they last longer than all but the highest upgraded Commander, they (usually) do multiple types of damage, and can do MASSIVE amounts of damage if they're Superior, Tempted, or both. They're main downside... Is that they cost SO much. Most of the Forsaken end up costing far more EE than you can get in return unless you're able to get some high tier breaks while they're active. Fortunately, theyre usually strong enough to facilitate that. Early game it's best to avoid them in favor of low tier Commanders, but mid game it may be better to just forgo getting upgrades for a while to buy a Forsaken for a big day to get a lot of breaks at once. That said, I can't test this very well because of how my Forsaken have turned out... All but one of them are so fucking expensive... Anyways! I hope this has been at least somewhat helpful.

I need to do it again to confirm it but in my campaign mode run the first loop I had Fury who was a red personality type with a minor in dignity and another character who's a blue that I'm blanking on right now but she had dignity as a significant vulnerability.

I did tempt-defeat for Fury and also broke her t4 innocence and dignity and I also defeated the blue with all of her t4 broken, fury ended up costing 7EE or 8EE to deploy and the blue (I think her name was Faith?) She was 12 EE to deploy I believe

I think its tied to not only if the chosen has their dignity fully broken since dignity is tied to disgrace but also possibly what type of vulnerability is their dignity? I also want to see if them being defeated via tempt also impacts this as well as their Overall angst when they're defeated.

I will run some experiments when I have some free time and if I come across some reliable results I don't mind sharing what I learned since before campaign I didn't put much thought how a chosen's corruptions impacts their forsaken stats other than more corrupted chosen = more corrupted forsaken XD

 

[Kalloi]

Oh but it was i campaign mode i wanted a full hypnosis run from the start if i knew i would not have broken them with slime + ... Their cost is 18;38;42

Oh I see! that's really good numbers especially the 18 for a campaign mode then. If they aren't already trained in a high percentage fighting style I recommend doing so when you have time between days. One thing I learned recently is that it actually takes a couple of days for trauma to become angst and so if you have a really good battle you can use a day to train and allow that trauma to become angst for extra damage as well as a free day to save up EE !

 

[theirl]

Oh I see! that's really good numbers especially the 18 for a campaign mode then. If they aren't already trained in a high percentage fighting style I recommend doing so when you have time between days. One thing I learned recently is that it actually takes a couple of days for trauma to become angst and so if you have a really good battle you can use a day to train and allow that trauma to become angst for extra damage as well as a free day to save up EE !

Oooooh naice i will do some experiments and try to groom 18 to became a matematicaly worth to use and will post the results

 

[tpk]

I just realized that I didn't put what upgrades did I buy some days...

well just know that they were in the days that I waited and just the ones that upgraded the commander

day 26: start with mirage (commander 3 captures 6 turns ambush) go pummel, grind, caress, humiliate. this time, make reaper have 1 turn of capture (1 attack, do not use commander) and then do the trick. it should be a 7 turn capture in mirage, go grind, pummel, humiliate, no caress. use the commander on freedom, go humiliate and pummel, then commander reaper humiliate, grind. another free capture on mirage, go humiliate, grind, pummel, caress if you want. now you wait until the last turn, and use a special action (don't do sodomize or force orgasm). mirage's significant vuln tier 2 is now broken and she has expo in tier 2. no extra points, but 6 constantly.

day 27-29: buy vengeful reconstitution, human collaborators, and casual projection. just wait.

mirage is the weakest in their team, so that is where we are going to start

day 30: go mirage (commander 5 turns 3 capture) pummel, grind, humiliate, caress. commander on freedom go humiliate->pain, then commander on reaper go grind->humiliate. recapture mirage go pummel, humiliate,grind. then try to build up another capture on freedom (1 on all trauma) humiliate, try to get another capture on reaper but don't capture her yet. use the third capture on mirage go humilate, pummel, grind. now capture reaper and go humiliate and grind. eventually go should get broadcast on mirage.

day 30 is an intermission, where you can get EE points if you corrupt the team enough, we are only getting +5 EE because we only have mirage with high corruption.

at the end, mirage has core and significant vuln broken, and is rivals with freedom. we got 26 points in a single day. that is pretty good (for now).

day 31-33: here we wait. buy dominance, and after 1 day Networked Consciousness.

At this point in the game, you have 2 upgrades that are considerable power spikes: reality sealing (if you use special commanders), and Networked Consciousness (if you use the normal commander). we are gonna use networked consciousness. it basically gives you 1 free action per capture, including ambush.

day 34: use full commander on anybody, you should focus on just increasing trauma, just to make it so you get +9 EE per day.

day 35: another day another dollar.

day 36: time to fuck over reaper. I will show you why Networked Consciousness is so strong with a normal commander.

start on reaper with a full commander (right now, mine is 3 captures 6 turns) use grind, humiliate, caress, pummel.

commander on freedom right away, humiliate, pummel.

capture reaper pummel, grind, humiliate. back with freedom, use caress.

commander mirage and go humiliate.

capture freedom grind. reaper caress.

recapture reaper, go pummel. freedom humiliate. mirage grind.

capture freedom, go humiliate and grind. reaper grind.

capture mirage humiliate, pummel, grind. reaper should be out of the surrounding, try to get as many extra turns before mirage's capture ends.

capture reaper go pummel, caress, humiliate, grind. in the end, you could use sodomize or forced orgasm, your choice. I recommend forced orgasm.

that's 8 free turns.

reaper got the pleasure vuln tier 2 and another with the pain vuln.

day 37: kind of a repeat from the last day, but this time is easier as reaper has more trauma and you already broke a tier 2 core. so repear, just do the one that you didn´t pick last time. some reaper captures (like the last one) got an extra turn from the extra damage.

after this, you should have 12 EE per day. I must say, reaper is a tough bitch, after a pain core vuln tier 2 break and she only has 2 lines in the weakness screen.

day 38: now with freedom

start with a full commander and go pummel, caress, grind, humiliate.

commander reaper humiliate, grind.

capture freedom grind, caress. reaper caress, pummel.

commander mirage, humiliate.

capture reaper, pummel, caress, grind.

capture freedom pummel, humialiate. mirage grind. hit mirage with an attack to cause pain lvl 1.

capture mirage grind, pummel, humiliate. (I has to do this twice, because I forgot to write what I did, I think this is how I did it) somewhere around here freedom had inseminate (10k+ hate), use it right away, but make sure that reaper or mirage are captured when freedom finishes.

in the last reaper capture, you can also have her go forced orgasm or sodomize. I recommend Forced orgasm

Capture freedom, if you did the inseminate before she finished the last capture, then you could go force orgasm, sodomize, or broadcast. in my second playthrough I didn't, because I forgot to do it.

reaper is now rivals with freedom, and you get 15 EE per day.

day 39: buy reality sealing. and just wait

day 40: full commander and go against freedom. and do the same as before: go pummel, caress, grind, humiliate.

commander reaper humiliate, grind.

capture freedom grind, caress. reaper caress, pummel.

commander mirage, humiliate.

capture reaper, pummel, caress, grind.

capture freedom pummel, humialiate. mirage grind. hit mirage with an attack to cause pain lvl 1.

capture mirage grind, pummel, humiliate.

I did something different (again) but you can still deal the the 10k in one circumstance, so break one significant one.

capture reaper, go grind, pummel, humiliate, caress. you can use broadcast eventually.

day 41: now the objective is to get all of them over 100M+ on a core circumstance. and it starts late game (sort-of)

I will continue tomorrow

I will start doing the last part.

the talk about the strategy I'll be following:

first, we break plea vuln of reaper, might not get to fully stack hypnotize, but we are doing this for the EE and corruption damage. then we do the same with the pain vuln. if we are lucky, in 2 days we will be getting about 60+ EE from corruption changes and maybe 20 EE from day 45
we will need to rush either slime+ or attack+ (if we can get 1000% hypno on someone, we go attack+). and if we have money we grab antipathy.

I don't think I will capture everyone. but I could be wrong...

in this end part reaper is the one who is going to help us the most in corrupting the others.


day 40: full commander (3 captures 6 turns) go freedom pummel, grind, caress, humiliate.

commander reaper humiliate, grind.

capture freedom, grind. reaper caress.

commander mirage humiliate, caress. freedom pummel

capture reaper pummel, caress.

capture freedom caress, force orgasm.

capture mirage pummel caress grind.

capture reaper force orgasm. mirage humiliate, orgy.

good job, you sort of broke everything on everyone...

ok no, but at least in the next 2 days you can get extra EE finishing the tier 3 vuln that you have unlocked. for me, reaper has pain/inju, mirage has fear/hate, and freedom has disgust/plea.

day 41: here you have to make sure that they do their tier 3 breaks, use any special commander on reaper, capture both reaper and freedom for mirage, and capture someone else when battle is done for freedom.

in the end, it should be 45 EE per day. and 80 EE for breaking vulnerabilities. and another row of tier 3 should be available, for me, it was disgust/plea on reaper, freedom was inju/pain, and mirage was also pain/inju.

day 42: again try to activate all tier 3. that includes mirage, because reaper already has tier 3 inju broken. I just realised that I never sodomized freedom. to you will need to use your 100+ EE to buy the stuff you need to make a special commander break both her tier 2 and 3.

remember to stack % on the new actions, especially with fantasize, as it is the one easier to stack.

reaper now should be rivals with both freedom and mirage.

day 43: with 100+ EE, if you rushed for attack+ you could get it by now.

now we aim to break freedom's core: hate. I could give you an exact guide on how to do it, but at this moment they are waaaaaaaay too weak, you could literally just put 2 of them on inseminate and you could get it. I started an orgy.

again, in the next 2 days you will have to break the tier 3 vuln. and after that is the tier 4

day 44: this time we don't have the 100+ EE but we have enough for a full commander, is not necessary, but it is fun.

this time you also will be trying to get more % on anything (except on exploding, because of that cost EE).

if you play your cards right you could have reaper and freedom hate each other.

day 45: either on this one or day 44 both mirage and freedom have shame tier 3, make sure that you break first mirage and on a different day, break freedom's.

day 46-49: focus on getting fantasize's % high. you should have slime+ and antipathy. make sure that you end up with 50+ EE just in case.

day 50: well, you do you, I will leave you the save, I captured them all in the end

 

[tpk]

I will start doing the last part.

the talk about the strategy I'll be following:

first, we break plea vuln of reaper, might not get to fully stack hypnotize, but we are doing this for the EE and corruption damage. then we do the same with the pain vuln. if we are lucky, in 2 days we will be getting about 60+ EE from corruption changes and maybe 20 EE from day 45
we will need to rush either slime+ or attack+ (if we can get 1000% hypno on someone, we go attack+). and if we have money we grab antipathy.

I don't think I will capture everyone. but I could be wrong...

in this end part reaper is the one who is going to help us the most in corrupting the others.


day 40: full commander (3 captures 6 turns) go freedom pummel, grind, caress, humiliate.

commander reaper humiliate, grind.

capture freedom, grind. reaper caress.

commander mirage humiliate, caress. freedom pummel

capture reaper pummel, caress.

capture freedom caress, force orgasm.

capture mirage pummel caress grind.

capture reaper force orgasm. mirage humiliate, orgy.

good job, you sort of broke everything on everyone...

ok no, but at least in the next 2 days you can get extra EE finishing the tier 3 vuln that you have unlocked. for me, reaper has pain/inju, mirage has fear/hate, and freedom has disgust/plea.

day 41: here you have to make sure that they do their tier 3 breaks, use any special commander on reaper, capture both reaper and freedom for mirage, and capture someone else when battle is done for freedom.

in the end, it should be 45 EE per day. and 80 EE for breaking vulnerabilities. and another row of tier 3 should be available, for me, it was disgust/plea on reaper, freedom was inju/pain, and mirage was also pain/inju.

day 42: again try to activate all tier 3. that includes mirage, because reaper already has tier 3 inju broken. I just realised that I never sodomized freedom. to you will need to use your 100+ EE to buy the stuff you need to make a special commander break both her tier 2 and 3.

remember to stack % on the new actions, especially with fantasize, as it is the one easier to stack.

reaper now should be rivals with both freedom and mirage.

day 43: with 100+ EE, if you rushed for attack+ you could get it by now.

now we aim to break freedom's core: hate. I could give you an exact guide on how to do it, but at this moment they are waaaaaaaay too weak, you could literally just put 2 of them on inseminate and you could get it. I started an orgy.

again, in the next 2 days you will have to break the tier 3 vuln. and after that is the tier 4

day 44: this time we don't have the 100+ EE but we have enough for a full commander, is not necessary, but it is fun.

this time you also will be trying to get more % on anything (except on exploding, because of that cost EE).

if you play your cards right you could have reaper and freedom hate each other.

day 45: either on this one or day 44 both mirage and freedom have shame tier 3, make sure that you break first mirage and on a different day, break freedom's.

day 46-49: focus on getting fantasize's % high. you should have slime+ and antipathy. make sure that you end up with 50+ EE just in case.

day 50: well, you do you, I will leave you the save, I captured them all in the end

also, post-last day