Java Corrupted Saviors [Release 58] [CSDev]

[Kalloi]

I'm looking at the guide now, and I have some thoughts. Early on you use pummel even though you're not going to be able to use the injury for anything. Using grind and caress will give her more angst, since she takes more fear and disgust damage.

The day the second chosen shows up you surround Azure as soon as possible, if you instead held off until what would be the last round of combat you could get an extra round of attacking Scarlet.

It's been a hot second since I made the guide so some things I'm honestly not clear on why I did at the time haha, however; you are absolutely right when it comes to the first part, rereading the guide, it would have been better at the early stages to use grind and caress to help with angst since those were Azure's core vulnerability and raising INJU was pointless for the objective.

The second example iirc I didn't reload that day and just used my first run of it for the guide but your suggestion is honestly a really good idea! That extra turn for dealing damage on scarlet would be help for angst build-up. Hearing your ideas honestly makes me want to rewrite those parts and replay the scenario but I'm afraid that if I do so, I might end up changing things to much for the people who followed the guide previously.

That being said, when I have the time I'll run through the guide with your changes and if I doesn't change things to much I'll be more than happy to rewrite them. Honestly ty for the input!

 

[subli]

The game played in the guide can definitely be improved on. I managed to break 3 vulnerabilities to T1 and one to T2 on day 11 with the same chosen. I actually had to hold back to not break the minor vulnerability to T1 too.

Generally I think its not a great idea to be using evil energy on commanders just for extra angst. It doesn't seem worthwhile.

Edit: Replayed and managed to break all of Vertem's non-minor vulnerabilities to T1 on day 9. Going to write my own guide when I have time.

 

[Kalloi]

The game played in the guide can definitely be improved on. I managed to break 3 vulnerabilities to T1 and one to T2 on day 11 with the same chosen. I actually had to hold back to not break the minor vulnerability to T1 too.

Generally I think its not a great idea to be using evil energy on commanders just for extra angst. It doesn't seem worthwhile.

Edit: Replayed and managed to break all of Vertem's non-minor vulnerabilities to T1 on day 9. Going to write my own guide when I have time.

I agree with your assessment to a degree, but one thing I do want to say though is my guide is built for beginners in mind mostly. A lot of people have had trouble with understanding the game, specifically the flow through the days, understanding the mechanics and how they are interconnected with each other, and most importantly; planning out the form of attack and the target in advance.

As a result, I intentionally kept some of the objectives and the battles simple. If I don't and I try to explain too much at once then people will be too confused to digest it all, (which already happened to a degree lol) and if I try some of the more complex strategies I use in my normal play then players will get too intimidated when they're having trouble just breaking a core vulnerability or getting decent EE in later stages.

An example of this is in second day where I mentioned psychic reading and its important utility when you're learning how to play, in my normal play, psychic reading is the upgrade I pick last in the early game because I can tell some of the core and minor vulnerabilities from the their first entrance and even more later with their bio at the end of their first battle.

I didn't want to save scum often in that run to keep the flow consistent and simple and encourage players following along to experiment and grow used to planning out their actions.


With all that being said, I'm looking forward to the guide you make, breaking all of Vertem's vulnerabilities that early is impressive and I'm looking forward to seeing the strategy you employed!

 

[Cloud73]

I haven't gotten a tier break by Day 15 at all yet with the most recent build of the game; if it's possible, I just haven't honed in on it yet. I got some T1 breaks on day 18, so I'm hoping that Versatility with a HATE/INJU commander can knock out a few more.

Edit: Yup, got a few more T1's and a T2 Core break the next day. Sitting pretty with 37 EE now, trying to plan the next move. Getting the first set of breaks is rough, but it does tend to domino pretty nicely.

 

[subli]

I never use special commanders at all to be honest, except where its required.

 

[Name36346]

I never use special commanders at all to be honest, except where its required.

For me, special commander begins to outperform generic one only after obtaining defiler + supressor upgrade. Anything less is just not worth it.

 

[Cloud73]

Something that I've started to believe in my current run is that it's much harder to focus on specific breaks than it was in earlier builds, and that I need to experiment more in the early game (pre-Day 15) if I want early enough momentum to attempt those specific breaks within the 50 day time limit.

Another couple of random thoughts that I'd had:

"Damn, this game takes a long time to play."
"I wish I could code a bot to run play-through iterations for me and record summaries of each day's results."
"I wish I could load saves during a battle that I already know has gone to shit."
"Fuck, I forgot to update my spreadsheet. Screw it, I'll just put a pin in it until I reload my save."
"Oh, it's morning."

 

[tpk]

For me, special commander begins to outperform generic one only after obtaining defiler + supressor upgrade. Anything less is just not worth it.

is the other way around for me, I use special commanders to break T0 and T1, and then just normal (until they are in the last corruption tier). I feel like the versatility in damage is just really strong.

 

[subli]

How I broke Vertem's vulnerabilties on day 9:

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[Kalloi]

How I broke Vertem's vulnerabilties on day 9:

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I read through your guide and I’m excited to have learned something for my own play!
I mentioned it yesterday when you brought up the more optimal strategy when Scarlet first appears but seeing you employing this when even beforehand when you are just dealing with Azure and working on Angst and trying to get the other chosen to appear faster is a really dope idea! thank you for making the guide, honestly if you made a day by day guide made for intermediate-advanced players I’d be more than happy to use it!

 

[Cloud73]

How I broke Vertem's vulnerabilties on day 9:

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This was a big help for me. I didn't realize surrounds could cause so much trauma with just 2 or 3 levels of opening, so I was always waiting for the commander before attacking vulnerabilities. This strategy seems like it still relies on a really convenient Chosen roll, but I just pulled it off on a new game, so it's been viable at least two for two.

 

[Asbeoth]

Well thanks for explaining the bars, documentation was missing.
But the guide doesn't really do much to me.
I can't reach any level 2 in circumstances no matter what I do. And I could only reach 2.5k in traumas.
I start day 1 with 2000 Angst.

I feel like these -60% dmg debufs are killing the game...
Plus, circumstance dmg doesn't apply after escape even though it stacks which makes me wonder how I'm supposed to go to 100k later on because I would still need like 30 turns with all circumstances active plus the traumas...

I guess a bot would play the game better than a human because the AI of the opponents is way too good and the scenario is fixed.

I'm right with you, as I gave up months ago. I only come back to see if anything's changed. Nothing really does. So, I just figure I'll never bother with the game. It's too much time wasted for nothing.

 

[Cloud73]

So, is Patience a waste of points early on? It seems like it's a waste of a turn having to use the Capture move, rather than letting it proc at the start, and it's utility seems to be in taking advantage of all three Chosen before you can get around to affording a third Capture. That seems like a mid or late game move, since you'd need to reliably surround the first Chosen purely off trauma damage.

Edit: It's biggest benefit appears to be that it leads to Persistence...

 

[subli]

This strategy seems like it still relies on a really convenient Chosen roll, but I just pulled it off on a new game, so it's been viable at least two for two.

It absolutely does. I think it's because she takes decent damage from hate, pleasure and injury.

So, is Patience a waste of points early on? It seems like it's a waste of a turn having to use the Capture move, rather than letting it proc at the start, and it's utility seems to be in taking advantage of all three Chosen before you can get around to affording a third Capture. That seems like a mid or late game move, since you'd need to reliably surround the first Chosen purely off trauma damage.

Edit: It's biggest benefit appears to be that it leads to Persistence...

The only reason I ever take it is because it leads to persistence. But persistence is great, so I take it all the time.

 

[Cloud73]

Yup, Persistence is great. 2 points for a whole extra capture is awesome. I'm just gonna pretend that its purchase price is actually 4 EE and that Patience doesn't exist.

On another note, after some serious save scumming, I've managed to break all the T1's by Day 13. Progress!

The extra EE from breaking them all is nothing to scoff at. I spent 27 EE on Day 12, mostly on upgrades, and then earned 26 back. Between the +2 from cores getting started, +2 from T1 breaks, and the post-battle events, it all added up quickly.

Edit: I realized I would love a "skip battle" button. Sometimes, you just don't want to sit through pointless fights while trying to save EE points.

Edit 2: Although, the Retreat button sorta does that... meh.

 

[subli]

Yeah this really is a game about snowballing. Once you get going you have the Evil Energy for a lot of upgrades which makes it easier to break more vulnerabilities and so on.

We've been talking a fair bit about early strategy, but what about later on. I feel like breaking innocence and confidence to T3 should be prioritized over morality and dignity. The innocence and confidence adaptions protect the chosen herself, while the morality and dignity adaptions protect the other chosen. If you do those first then it can be difficult to break the other chosen later.

 

[Cloud73]

Agreed. I've got two Chosen with T3 DIG broken, and they're a nightmare to leave alone. I have to surround them just to keep the nerfs from destroying momentum. Networked Consciousness is a must now, because otherwise I'd lose too many turns. One also has T3 MOR broken... Yeah, I was trying to break friendships and didn't notice how bad things were getting.

Edit: I'll mention that, right now, early game strategy trumps late game strategy heavily in importance. If you get your breaks in early enough, you can always sacrifice some days without grabbing a commander to get the EE you need.

Edit 2: So you can prevent T3 breaks by either constant surrounds/captures on the Chosen about to pop, or by retreating before the Chosen shows up. One of my Chosen has three different T3 waiting to pop, and I'm just holding it off at the moment so I can try breaking friendships further.

 

[Name36346]

Edit: I realized I would love a "skip battle" button. Sometimes, you just don't want to sit through pointless fights while trying to save EE points.

Edit 2: Although, the Retreat button sorta does that... meh.

There is another "skip day" button - training Forsaken. While main advantage of "retreat" is ending skrewed up battles prematurely.

 

[subli]

That's assuming you have forsaken to train

 

[MSGTNP]

How do you impregnate a Forsaken? Been trying to figure this one out for awhile now lol

Also regarding Forsaken, Is there any plans on adding positive or effective like interactions with them? It's not like you need to break/discipline/train them forever now. While their highly amusing, I find them highly unpracticable to use compared to a Commander at a similar price. I suppose one with extremely high stats would be better than a maxed out commander but I'd imagine that would take quite literally forever to get to considering how fast they run out of stamina.