Others Corruption of Champions II [v0.7.13] [Savin/Salamander Studios]

[Skandranon]

What an odd rule, being writers themselves they should at least know the importance of pacing. It feels like a strict, time-saving measure at the cost of the quality of writing.

I dont think it's a time saving measure at all.

It's to avoid abandoned characters where the first doc gets submitted and put in then nothing else ever.

 

[Wrynn13]

I dont think it's a time saving measure at all.

It's to avoid abandoned characters where the first doc gets submitted and put in then nothing else ever.

You mean like almost every character in game has been?

 

[Skandranon]

You mean like almost every character in game has been?

Abandoned without sex scenes? I...don't think that's happened at all.

 

[Walk Cycle]

I dont think it's a time saving measure at all.

It's to avoid abandoned characters where the first doc gets submitted and put in then nothing else ever.

I see, so it's more of a safeguard against content that's put in barebones on the expectation that it'll be improved upon later, but has the risk of the author ghosting the project altogether.

Regardless, the quality of writing still takes a hit. The tendency of half-baked characters being added might've decreased but it encourages content authors to get to the sex as fast as possible, which throws intimacy or building rapport with the character out the window.

All of this made me realize that it's hard to write intimacy in this game when Savarrans treat sex almost like a handshake, then have the added rule of sex by first draft. The only type of character that has room for intimacy are the companions and only Brienne, Kiyoko and Ryn seems to fulfill that role, you can't really expect intimacy from:

1) Town Bicycle Cat Priestess
2) Dude Bro Minotaur
3) Date Rape Douche Rabbit
4) Literally Who Dullahan
5) Rapist Slaver Orc
6) The Most Bland Redhead Witch Ever
7) Hornet that leads you on but turns out to be a lesbian

Abandoned without sex scenes? I...don't think that's happened at all.

Nelia the goblin seamstress comes to mind, she seems almost like bait, dangled in front of the player as this shortstack milf. But you can't have sex with her.

 

[Skandranon]

Nelia the goblin seamstress comes to mind, she seems almost like bait, dangled in front of the player as this shortstack milf. But you can't have sex with her.

She wasn't supposed to have content.

One of the things they said up front actually was that they didn't want shopkeepers to have sex content.

Of course, Balak is supposed to be giving Nelia scenes anyway, but who knows when.

But in any case, I still don't think you can call a character abandoned who's been involved in several quests since her inception. She's actually gotten like 3 or 4 updates as part of someone else's.

 

[Wrynn13]

Abandoned without sex scenes? I...don't think that's happened at all.

I'm talking just straight up abandoned. One shot characters, with or without a sex scene, litter this game. Hell half the companions feel abandoned. These rules feel more like gate keeping than to help content.

 

[Skandranon]

I'm talking just straight up abandoned. One shot characters, with or without a sex scene, litter this game. Hell half the companions feel abandoned. These rules feel more like gate keeping than to help content.

Well I don't think "one shot character" means "abandoned".

Abandoned is like Ember from CoC, who was supposed to have a bunch of different options and paths but they never got finished so she ended up with basically 1 or 2 small variations.

Or like Hand So from TiTs, who had a whole list of content planned that will never happen now.

Abandoned is when Bubbles doesn't finish the plotline he has going with the Marked Mercenaries, or Takahiro, or whatever else he's started and not finished.

The only characters in CoC2 I'd call abandoned were Berwyn before his remodel, and Eryka.

Heck, all the companions have either gotten content in the past few months or have upcoming stuff. Even Atugia with the recent gym stuff and the quest that just got added this patch, not to mention they all get comments and small scenes in new content pretty consistently.

Abandoned is, imo, unfinished content that noone is working on/planning to work on, and there's not much of that in CoC2.

 

[Walk Cycle]

One of the things they said up front actually was that they didn't want shopkeepers to have sex content.

Another one of their weird rules. Shopkeepers can't have sex scenes but asexual characters can have them. It's been explained to me last time that Sav & Co. wanted to discourage sexable shopkeepers because they would rather have content directed somewhere else, but the rule still feels limiting.

 

[Daddums]

Abandoned is when Bubbles doesn't finish the plotline he has going with the Marked Mercenaries, or Takahiro, or whatever else he's started and not finished.

So why does the main team get to abandon characters but everyone else is expected to contort themselves into a pretzel to get their character in? Usually when an employee - and let's be honest, that's what those on the team are supposed to be - doesn't finish something they get replaced.

Just seems like a circlejerk people throw money at for inexplicable reasons.

 

[Wrynn13]

Well I don't think "one shot character" means "abandoned".

Abandoned is like Ember from CoC, who was supposed to have a bunch of different options and paths but they never got finished so she ended up with basically 1 or 2 small variations.

Or like Hand So from TiTs, who had a whole list of content planned that will never happen now.

Abandoned is when Bubbles doesn't finish the plotline he has going with the Marked Mercenaries, or Takahiro, or whatever else he's started and not finished.

The only characters in CoC2 I'd call abandoned were Berwyn before his remodel, and Eryka.

Heck, all the companions have either gotten content in the past few months or have upcoming stuff. Even Atugia with the recent gym stuff and the quest that just got added this patch, not to mention they all get comments and small scenes in new content pretty consistently.

Abandoned is, imo, unfinished content that noone is working on/planning to work on, and there's not much of that in CoC2.

Abandoned on purpose or because the writer went MIA is still abandoned, no new content is no new content. And most of the companions still feel abandoned despite the trickle of content because they are still shallow. In fact shallow is a good word for the game in general, wide as a sea but shallow as a puddle, and that is not good game design.

 

[Skandranon]

So why does the main team get to abandon characters but everyone else is expected to contort themselves into a pretzel to get their character in? Usually when an employee - and let's be honest, that's what those on the team are supposed to be - doesn't finish something they get replaced.

Just seems like a circlejerk people throw money at for inexplicable reasons.

Understand that I'm being facetious here because I like mocking Bubbles. He hasn't actually abandoned anything (yet), and supposedly MMM is his next big project to finish.

The above is just me doomsaying the possibility of him not finishing stuff he started.

And iirc he's not technically on the team - he has a job outside of CoC2, he's a community writer if I'm not misremembering.

 

[Daddums]

Understand that I'm being facetious here because I like mocking Bubbles. He hasn't actually abandoned anything (yet), and supposedly MMM is his next big project to finish.

The above is just me doomsaying the possibility of him not finishing stuff he started.

And iirc he's not technically on the team - he has a job outside of CoC2, he's a community writer if I'm not misremembering.

Ah, okay. I thought he was on the team. That makes somewhat more sense, but the amount of leniency still reeks of favoritism.

 

[mrttao]

I'm talking just straight up abandoned. One shot characters, with or without a sex scene, litter this game. Hell half the companions feel abandoned. These rules feel more like gate keeping than to help content.

This stems from them both crowdsourcing content creation AND locking ownership over each character to its originator.
You need one to a few writers who are dedicated, get paid, and can do all the characters.

All they are doing is slightly decreasing the number of abandoned characters. but not eliminating it. and as a side effect also making the characters more trashy.

The the very rare case they get a decent author. their stupid rules forbid that author from writing anything more than 1 companion. and thus they must have the others be written by sub par authors.

overall this game is an abject lesson on how to not manage a project

 

[GoGoGorilla]

Well, characters that fucks with each other is okay. There are plenty of porn games where player is an observer (in a good meaning of this word) without any ntr/voyeurism/etc elements, both text and...ehh, non-text? I mean, world that doesnt rotates around players 'child bearing organ' is a good thing.

Hard disagree. This is a porn game. It should revolve around the Player Character. Your line of thinking is why this game is so shit currently.

 

[Skandranon]

You need one to a few writers who are dedicated, get paid, and can do all the characters.

Need? Nah, I dont think so.

At that point you're looking at an entirely different game. Crowdsourcing content is the whole reason these games exist at all. It's the reason they've gotten the variety and amount of content they have, and it's a large portion of the reason for their popularity.

I'm not gonna say the structure they have around it is perfect, but switching to a completely different model imo just loses what makes the game unique.

 

[mrttao]

Need? Nah, I dont think so.

At that point you're looking at an entirely different game. Crowdsourcing content is the whole reason these games exist at all. It's the reason they've gotten the variety and amount of content they have, and it's a large portion of the reason for their popularity.

I'm not gonna say the structure they have around it is perfect, but switching to a completely different model imo just loses what makes the game unique.

Not true.
Fenoxo wrote most of CoC1 himself. The crowdsourcing is literally what killed the game (according to fen).
As the CoC1 license meant that the original writer retains full rights to each character and scene they submit. and thus full control over it. which caused a variety of problems. mainly with fen being unable to change already existing scenes. and not wanting to delete entire NPCs

CoC2 exists because it exploited the name of CoC1. it is entirely different people.

The vast vast vast majority of games on F95 are not crowdsourced. Honestly the only other crowdsourced games I can think of are free cities (dead) and Strive (where only the art packs are crowdsourced. and the crowdsourced art packs are trash), and liliths throne (which crowd sources bug fixes. and that game is a milking joke)

well over 99% of the games on F95 instead have 1 to a few dedicated devs. who share an income from donations (patreon or subscribe star). and do NOT solicit volunteers to submit content.

 

[Skandranon]

Not true.
Fenoxo wrote most of CoC1 himself. The crowdsourcing is literally what killed the game (according to fen).
As the CoC1 license meant that the original writer retains full rights to each character and scene they submit. and thus full control over it. which caused a variety of problems. mainly with fen being unable to change already existing scenes. and not wanting to delete entire NPCs

CoC2 exists because it exploited the name of CoC1. it is entirely different people.

The game not being originally envisioned around crowdsourcing is the problem, not crowdsourcing itself, because his very next game relied on it even more heavily than his first.

The vast vast vast majority of games on F95 are not crowdsourced.

well over 99% of the games on F95 instead have 1 to a few dedicated devs. who share an income from donations (patreon or subscribe star). and do NOT solicit volunteers to submit content.

That's...that's my point. I said "what makes the game unique" ie not many if any other games use crowdsourced the way this one does.

 

[mrttao]

That's...that's my point. I said "what makes the game unique" ie not many if any other games use crowdsourced the way this one does.

Oh, when you said "crowdsourcing is the reason these games exist" I thought you meant "all those games on F95"
I realize now you mean "CoC and CoC2".
which... i gotta disagree with.

CoC started out with fen as the one and only writer, and developer. it exists because fen wrote it, and it was relatively good. Crowdsourcing was added after the fact, it was not the reason for the game's creation. crowdsourcing made it worse and then finally killed it

CoC2 is an unrelated game by unrelated devs which just recycles the name from the first game in order to draw in customers. It exists because there was a name to be milked, not because of crowdsourcing.
And while it was designed with crowdsourcing in mind from the beginning, you can't really attribute its very existence to crowdsourcing. and many of the problems in the game actually stem from crowdsourcing. (all of them stem from mismanagement)

This

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sums up Savin's brilliant ideas for how to handle crowdsourcing in CoC2

 

[barsa]

Why did they blackwash her?

"Tell me that you have issues without telling me that you have issues."

 

[Biostar]

One of the things they said up front actually was that they didn't want shopkeepers to have sex content.

Well that was obviously a fucking lie.