Others Corruption of Champions II [v0.7.13] [Savin/Salamander Studios]

[Based Department]

Which writing are you talking about specifically? I didn't find any overt "fuck you" writing as opposed to the rest of pretentious the "high art" the writers think they're creating along with the sluttiness=romance shit.

 

[Deviton123]

Ah I get it now

 

[fakklan]

View attachment 2600369

How come is it that the game that presents itself as full of corruption and degeneracy, as well as so called sexual freedom, doesn't allow for incest? And why is Tobs such a whiny bitch and a mental vampire or whatever?

 

[Raf-Raf]

How come is it that the game that presents itself as full of corruption and degeneracy, as well as so called sexual freedom, doesn't allow for incest? And why is Tobs such a whiny bitch and a mental vampire or whatever?

Short version:

Oh do I have a story for you, these devs have been so asshurt since CoC1 that they still can't get over it.
Hence, the spite project we have now in CoC2.

"We maybe degens but we have morals at least." or "We can't put incest 'cause patreon"

 

[fakklan]

"We maybe degens but we have morals at least." or "We can't put incest 'cause patreon"

I mean, TiTS had Nykke and the Froswyrmlings until they bitched about patreon one day isntead of thinking something up, like a patch or migrating to another site. Also, morals? This literally games where you lose and get raped, bruh.

 

[Alterism]

This might be a hot take, but I don't actually think it's as terrible as people often think it is. This is not me defending CoC2 specifically, they do butcher a lot of things, but saying that the game is bad because it focuses on the characters who are not the player to me sounds rather petty.

That is a hot take.

Since we're not specifically talking about CoC2. Most games, even ones where you're not the chosen one/hero or even succeed in your quest, still revolve around the player and their actions. Even if they're completely overshadowed narratively the game still centers around their experience and actions. As without that, they've got no business being the person the story revolves around without pretty good ability on the writers part.
There are many many games where the story is literally happening off screen or has already happened where your actions still matter to your particular story.

Without going too off topic, I have played... a considerable amount of RPGs. I can list the ones where the story doesn't revolve around the player even when they have a larger side character focus on one hand.

You can absolutely break the mold. But you better be pretty flippin' good at your craft. There's a reason why most games don't even attempt to lean in that direction.

 

[Raf-Raf]

I mean, TiTS had Nykke and the Froswyrmlings until they bitched about patreon one day isntead of thinking something up, like a patch or migrating to another site. Also, morals? This literally games where you lose and get raped, bruh.

We mere mortals cannot comprehend what goes on the minds of these skinwalkers pretending to be human.
This game is proof of that and their ALIEN way of designing everything.

 

[Axvz]

Don't get me wrong. There are some stinker companion resolutions like the aforementioned Daeran and the mess that was, and still is, Trever. But, they're still far more characters than anything in this game. Mostly because their actual companions to a main character. To the point that even comparing the two is insane.

I wasn't actually even trying to compare these two. Got myself triggered a bit with this "enormous amount of options" i guess. Most wotr shit is still up to gathering points through dialogues though when talking about companions and most of outcomes of any players "actions". Not much fun if you ask me.
And yes I like pathfinder enough to start playing it again once a few months(Though I'd like to see if BG3 can do rp stuff better because right now it is somehow impressive). Just can't say that it is perfect or the best of the best.

Also i see no point discussing Arueshalae's "i don't want to be horny I want to be happy" and stuff. I'm more than sure that my opinion stays for me anyway. She is still fanservice as fuck (POINTBUY 69 LMAO). I will agree on her perfection only if Owlcats woud've give her tabletop version of her ability score

 

[NaturalEnclave]

Snip

Just to make it clear - everything you said is 100% correct and not something I disagree with. My main point is mostly that using OCs and focusing on their development wouldn't be a massive problem IF the game's writing was good. And, naturally, good writing DOES involve a decent amount of player agency and not making almost every single character as perfect as possible, otherwise you end up with a shitshow where MC is just a random nobody who is tagging along with Mary Sues.

The only difference between "a character" and "an original character" is an implied connotation of weird obsession the creator has towards their character. This obsession, sometimes, is actually a good thing, because it allows the writer/designer to really go unhinged and passionate when making anything. I.e - any artist who has a specific OC they draw amazing porn with because they like their character that much. Theoretically, this amount of love and passion for one's character (in videogame writing) would result in very hot sex scenes that really sell the character to the player... as long as the writer realizes how to do it. Sadly, it's not the case for CoC2.

That is a hot take.

Since we're not specifically talking about CoC2. Most games, even ones where you're not the chosen one/hero or even succeed in your quest, still revolve around the player and their actions. Even if they're completely overshadowed narratively the game still centers around their experience and actions. As without that, they've got no business being the person the story revolves around without pretty good ability on the writers part.
There are many many games where the story is literally happening off screen or has already happened where your actions still matter to your particular story.

Without going too off topic, I have played... a considerable amount of RPGs. I can list the ones where the story doesn't revolve around the player even when they have a larger side character focus on one hand.

You can absolutely break the mold. But you better be pretty flippin' good at your craft. There's a reason why most games don't even attempt to lean in that direction.

Just to make sure we aren't arguing over a misunderstood term, what I refer to as "character focus" are games where the player character serves primarily as a vehicle for the player to observe and interact with the world around them. A few pages ago, I compared CoC2 to a gacha game - both are designed around the player interacting with cool and interesting characters and, due to the self-insert nature of the protagonist, put way more focus on those characters because that's the main way to have engaging narrative with character arcs and progression. That's what I refer to as character focus.

Now, gacha games aren't RPGs (by classic definition) and it's hard to pretend like this way of writing works for everything. Even in those - while characters are the ones who are shining the most, player is still rather important to the plot and, the ones I've played, make it absolutely clear why they are the protagonist. I assume this is why CoC2 fails. Your souls is special, but this isn't a power-fantasy. The game is filled with powerful, god-like characters who aren't doing anything for you or the main threat. Companions take away most of the screen time, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but sadly this comes at the cost of player having practically no agency (sometimes there isn't even an illusion of choice).

I don't think the games have to revolve around the player's choices or actions, per say, rather, they have to revolve around the player's experience or journey. Some stories require a specific mindset to really get into and the enjoyment of the story often depends on how well the writing allows you to slip into that mindset. If a game lets me indulge in every detail about my character and offers me a lot of choice - it's easy to slip in. If the game establishes me as a specific individual with a specific role - I am more than able to accept, for example, not being the center of attention and not the only one who drives the story forward. CoC2 seems like like... create your own character and then have little ways of shaping who they are and watch how other characters deal with their problems that really didn't require you to be there in the first place.

 

[MoneyMan181]

The root of the issue is the confused identity of CoC2. It wants to be a story much more focused on characters and developed companions, yet half of them are hidden and other half is mandatory for the main story.

The real root of the issue is that they're not fucking written well. Almost every single character in this game is a one-dimensional plank of wood with hardly any charm or personality.
Cait? Bubbly do-gooder slut aka shittier Anno aka even shittier Helia.
Azy? She's nice.
Atugia? She's an innocent blushing history nerd. And apparently not innocent because Arona scene exists.
Arona? Generic orc trope.
Brint? A chill guy.
Brienne? A nice girl that loves MC.
Etheryn? Disney princess.
Quin? Fucking loser.

There is absolutely nothing about any of these characters that actually get me invested into their stories or attached to them as characters. Compare them to literally any ME companion. Any Dragon Age companion. Any Persona social link. Even if I don't care about some of those personalities, I'm usually at least interested in how their story plays out or what they have to say in certain situations.

That just doesn't happen for CoC2 companions because they always react to things in the same generic way you expect them to. Besides Cait hating demons and Brienne disliking Arona, I can't even think of any time where these characters express negative emotions. Even if you do something they don't like, they usually just have a milquetoast reaction or get over it by the time the scene is over. And that's kind of a problem, because characters need some sort of conflict or opposing force to actually show people sides of them we wouldn't ordinarily see.

Spoiler: Spoilers for Dragon Age Origins

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Now am I asking for DA:O tier writing? No, of course not. But the game has to do something interesting with their characters if they're going to focus so much on said characters. Otherwise the story isn't engaging to anybody but the person writing it.

CoC2 is much more enjoyable for those who aren't really into challenging the game - people who will go along with whatever the game says because the content might be good. Those who will not care about some massive issues with the story because... I mean, why would they? This CoC2 thread judges the game harsher than actual game critics or 3-hour long essay-making youtubers judge actual AAA RPGs. While a lot of those judgements are pretty fair, it's also a bit foolish to expect it from every player.

Aka people who play the game just to fap and/or don't look at it critically. Which is perfectly fine, nobody is saying you can't do that. But that doesn't remove the flaws the game has.

Personally I don't believe people here are too harsh on the game. On average at least. They made the game much more story and character focused than the previous one. Those two things are pretty fucking shit. And since this is a text game we only have two other metrics to go by: Gameplay and sex scenes. The gameplay is also shittier than the other games and the sex scenes are actually good for the most part. So overall the game is just kinda bad unless you view it as a way to dispense sex scenes. Then it's good but requires way too much effort to get to most scenes.

 

[Raf-Raf]

Just to make it clear - everything you said is 100% correct and not something I disagree with. My main point is mostly that using OCs and focusing on their development wouldn't be a massive problem IF the game's writing was good. And, naturally, good writing DOES involve a decent amount of player agency and not making almost every single character as perfect as possible, otherwise you end up with a shitshow where MC is just a random nobody who is tagging along with Mary Sues.

The only difference between "a character" and "an original character" is an implied connotation of weird obsession the creator has towards their character. This obsession, sometimes, is actually a good thing, because it allows the writer/designer to really go unhinged and passionate when making anything. I.e - any artist who has a specific OC they draw amazing porn with because they like their character that much. Theoretically, this amount of love and passion for one's character (in videogame writing) would result in very hot sex scenes that really sell the character to the player... as long as the writer realizes how to do it. Sadly, it's not the case for CoC2.

I'm glad you're on board with us and not huffing the same substance those devs are.
I treat this game as a Could be, CAN BE a good game. with a bit of copium to the side IF ONLY they let go of this petty asshurt feeling they had back in CoC1, If they just write FOR the players instead of themselves.

There are some writers that are exceptions but like I said there, it SHOULD NOT BE that way, it should be reversed.
Devs don't make game for themselves, they make games for the players with a mix of them on the side.
They should give the players freedom at least to an extent instead of shoving down what THEY prefer.

One of the worst things they have is this bizarre obsessive hate on modding.
They're worse than a SWAT Team barging down a predator's house when it comes to that.
Think of purists with religious zeal who think any fan work is TAINTING their work.
THIS IS OUR GAME, NOT YOURS, NEVER WILL BE.

If there's someone who actually made Kinu that likes the player after coming out of the orb or whatever it is, non-incest then TOBS might die of a heart attack.
If they did put incest on Kinu, TOBS might kill himself.

 

[Deviton123]

You know shit is going bad when you tell your own RPG character to shut the fuck up in certain scenes. Or is it just me?

 

[NaturalEnclave]

One of the worst things they have is this bizarre obsessive hate on modding.
They're worse than a SWAT Team barging down a predator's house when it comes to that.
Think of purists with religious zeal who think any fan work is TAINTING their work.
THIS IS OUR GAME, NOT YOURS, NEVER WILL BE.

Oh god, this...
I remember Savin explaining the reason behind war on modding (aka apparently CoC1 has a bunch of terrible mods that, due to flash being flash, made it impossible to distinguish original version of the game versus the modded one, which caused devs to constantly get bombarded with complains over content they would never have approved and never had control over). However, I really don't think trying to combat modding and (I've heard), FREAKING SAVE EDITING is the solution.

I probably played CoC2 less than most people here (I gave up after not being able to beat a boss guarding Winter City despite having a high-level and the combat really doesn't have any strategy to it from what I've played) and while it was one of the first porn games I've touched, that also impressed me with actually trying to be more than just a quick fap game (while still being decent for quick fap game), the more I thought about it, the more I realized that it sucks in many areas and I have 3 issues per every 1 good thing it does.

It reminds me of Skyrim. Looking at it now, it's not really... the greatest game in a lot of areas. In fact, it's flawed in a lot of ways. But I still love it. And I still play it from time to time because... guess what, you can fucking mod the issues out of the game and make in into what you want. CoC2 is not the worst porn game, it has value. In fact, I don't know if I can say with 100% confidence that it's a terrible game... but it ain't a great one either.

And worst of all - it's really a hateable game. Enormous amount of futas with massive cocks, scenes ranging from great to just boring and unfun to read, combat that is awful and many other aspects you've mentioned. And, most importantly, the fact that it feels like a golden child of the devs that they refuse to be changed or modified by anyone. If devs were fine with modding and CoC2 had a proper, decent modding community that occasionally released some gems, I think the game's reputation would skyrocket. Given how pretentious some of the writing is, it creates this impression that devs don't want you to just have a fun game which provides a good wank or three. They want you to play the game in the most pure, intended way and observe the bullshit they put in, because they believe it's the greatest content out there in the porn game industry.

 

[Raf-Raf]

Oh god, this...
I remember Savin explaining the reason behind war on modding (aka apparently CoC1 has a bunch of terrible mods that, due to flash being flash, made it impossible to distinguish original version of the game versus the modded one, which caused devs to constantly get bombarded with complains over content they would never have approved and never had control over). However, I really don't think trying to combat modding and (I've heard), FREAKING SAVE EDITING is the solution.

I probably played CoC2 less than most people here (I gave up after not being able to beat a boss guarding Winter City despite having a high-level and the combat really doesn't have any strategy to it from what I've played) and while it was one of the first porn games I've touched, that also impressed me with actually trying to be more than just a quick fap game (while still being decent for quick fap game), the more I thought about it, the more I realized that it sucks in many areas and I have 3 issues per every 1 good thing it does.

It reminds me of Skyrim. Looking at it now, it's not really... the greatest game in a lot of areas. In fact, it's flawed in a lot of ways. But I still love it. And I still play it from time to time because... guess what, you can fucking mod the issues out of the game and make in into what you want. CoC2 is not the worst porn game, it has value. In fact, I don't know if I can say with 100% confidence that it's a terrible game... but it ain't a great one either.

And worst of all - it's really a hateable game. Enormous amount of futas with massive cocks, scenes ranging from great to just boring and unfun to read, combat that is awful and many other aspects you've mentioned. And, most importantly, the fact that it feels like a golden child of the devs that they refuse to be changed or modified by anyone. If devs were fine with modding and CoC2 had a proper, decent modding community that occasionally released some gems, I think the game's reputation would skyrocket. Given how pretentious some of the writing is, it creates this impression that devs don't want you to just have a fun game which provides a good wank or three. They want you to play the game in the most pure, intended way and observe the bullshit they put in, because they believe it's the greatest content out there in the porn game industry.

Believe me, Normal mode difficulty is a joke.
Story mode should be your best friend 'cause the combat system is a huge pile of shit.

These devs are the perfect example of AAA devs we always hear about today.

"It's not our fault that they don't enjoy it, it's not us, it's the players that are the problem."
"Don't like it? Then go play another, your issues aren't our issues."

Playing this game on normal mode is the same as lifting weights while your arms are strapped to the chair or trying to do a swan dive on a puddle.

 

[NaturalEnclave]

Believe me, Normal mode difficulty is a joke.
Story mode should be your best friend 'cause the combat system is a huge pile of shit.

These devs are the perfect example of AAA devs we always hear about today.

"It's not our fault that they don't enjoy it, it's not us, it's the players that are the problem."
"Don't like it? Then go play another, your issues aren't our issues."

Playing this game on normal mode is the same as lifting weights while your arms are strapped to the chair or trying to do a swan dive on a puddle.

As a player who usually plays on High Difficulty for games I am familiar with and still goes for normal for games I am not too good at because I want to actually try to play by the game's rules and understand how the developers want me to play, CoC2 really tricked me by assuming it's my fault for losing in combat.
Honestly, if I ever return to the game I will play on the story difficulty because it's not my fault they can't balance even normal one. That is, if I have a reason to return to it. At this point, I sort of find more enjoinment in r34 for actual videogames which I should play instead.
Now, if I don't play CoC2 and don't intend to in the near future, why I am here? Am I like a redditor for a live-service game who still posts on reddit because he hates the game despite not touching it in months? Not really, I just legit find the narrative discussions and the lessons you can learn from failures of CoC2 pretty interesting to read and examine (which is why I even started talking about character focus not always being a bad thing, because I've seen it work in other games).

 

[Raf-Raf]

As a player who usually plays on High Difficulty for games I am familiar with and still goes for normal for games I am not too good at because I want to actually try to play by the game's rules and understand how the developers want me to play, CoC2 really tricked me by assuming it's my fault for losing in combat.
Honestly, if I ever return to the game I will play on the story difficulty because it's not my fault they can't balance even normal one. That is, if I have a reason to return to it. At this point, I sort of find more enjoinment in r34 for actual videogames which I should play instead.
Now, if I don't play CoC2 and don't intend to in the near future, why I am here? Am I like a redditor for a live-service game who still posts on reddit because he hates the game despite not touching it in months? Not really, I just legit find the narrative discussions and the lessons you can learn from failures of CoC2 pretty interesting to read and examine (which is why I even started talking about character focus not always being a bad thing, because I've seen it work in other games).

The devs call it a sandbox, I call this a litterbox.
You can have a bit of fun if you can avoid the shit scattered all around the sand with shovel and a bucket as your only toys.

There are some exceptions (again) that can maybe? make you forget how shit this game is if you don't touch anything else aside from other writers' content.

This game is best played if you don't take it seriously, like we the player are in silly mode except everyone in-game is taking everything seriously because treating the game and its shitty excuse you call a story seriously is the worst decision I've ever done.

Look at me, I turned to a cactus, what kind of shit game turns a person to this?

 

[Deviton123]

The devs call it a sandbox, I call this a litterbox.
You can have a bit of fun if you can avoid the shit scattered all around the sand with shovel and a bucket as your only toys.

There are some exceptions (again) that can maybe? make you forget how shit this game is if you don't touch anything else aside from other writers' content.

This game is best played if you don't take it seriously, like we the player are in silly mode except everyone in-game is taking everything seriously because treating the game and its shitty excuse you call a story seriously is the worst decision I've ever done.

Look at me, I turned to a cactus, what kind of shit game turns a person to this?

For real, Brienne and Aileh are the only reasons why I keep playing this game on and off.

 

[Tau_Iota]

Take the choice of keeping Loghain alive for example. Alistair will absolutely NOT stand for this no matter what you as a player do. If he's hardened, he will make himself king just to execute the bastard. If he isn't hardened and you don't back down, he just fucking leaves the party and never comes back. No matter what the player does, they have to decide between them. And that's a very strong character moment for Alistair who's usually more timid and a follower. .

There's something I just fucking love about characters having their own initiative, which is another problem for CoC2. All these characters are so much better than your character, but just stand there waiting for you to do something. Is the PC special because they're the only person with initiative? When I was doing an evil route in DA:O and Alistair left I was fucking crushed. Alistair is the best companion, hands down.

Aka people who play the game just to fap and/or don't look at it critically. Which is perfectly fine, nobody is saying you can't do that. But that doesn't remove the flaws the game has.

Not to mention that unless you're playing something like those old "Jill the Plumber" type flash games (AKA, glorified scene viewers), you should at least be able to expect some semblance of story. Looking at a lot of other games' reviews on here, reviews tend to plummet when your story is shit. So I think it's safe to say people are looking for a bit of story, makes sense since we could all just go to PornHub if we weren't.

I'm glad you're on board with us and not huffing the same substance those devs are.
I treat this game as a Could be, CAN BE a good game. with a bit of copium to the side IF ONLY they let go of this petty asshurt feeling they had back in CoC1, If they just write FOR the players instead of themselves.

Seeing Raf-Raf comment more than a small paragraph be like:

Spoiler: We back

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[Raf-Raf]

Seeing Raf-Raf comment more than a small paragraph be like:

Ey man, I enjoy lurking and be disappointed again seeing everyone go through the same shit I went through in this piece of shit.
I just thought that MAYBE time will fix it but no.

Such a huge disappointment.

Also because I replayed it again 'cause I don't have any games to play.
No way in hell I won't be mad enough to write a quarter TOBS level of text after re-experiencing all of it again.

 

[fakklan]

TBH, as much as I hate the gameplay systems like the leveling/class system and combat being utter dogshit, one thing I don't understand is people talking how the game is hard.

It's simple really: don't think. Just take what deals most damage.
Either play Warrior with assasinate as your ultimate and cleave to walk over multi-foe encounters, also 1 or 2 ST attacks, and then pray for cait to heal you...
...or play a black mage with bolstering dance, fire wand to deal elemental damage, then the thingie that puts fire DoT on you and doubles fire damage so you can cast your aoe/st target and yeet the enemy, with Dracia being the only place so far resistant to being 1-2 shotted.

If you want to play anything else, forget it. In wanting to balance everything and make a good roster of moves, they fucked up and made a lot of useless abilities of varying types of damage, where it barely ever matters (using grease + fire or applying weaknesses maybe, where most weaknesses other than grease are ST) - in addition to UI being fucking horrific and swapping them out takes a year or two, and gods forbid if you ever used a mirror stance. Like, are we going to talk about how bad equipping moves is?

In wanting to make a character of every flavour playable, they not only made the races bland by not having advantages/disadvantages in combat (or outside) over others, but also castrated the combat by making it bloated, with very few options that don't get you raped because you got yeeted. The "retry form checkpoint" button in dungeons isn't a solution, the solution is making a combat system that doesn't fuck you over and you have more than two classes being able of hitting the enemy, surviving the enemy, killing the enemy; AND companions that use their skills well, because these fucking don't. You have a manual mode and by the gods, it seems that your companions always opt to use the worst skills available, as to what they could be using if you did it manually, but it just bloats the combat even more because instead of equipping them skills, they have costumes you need to swap.