Like Alterism said, presentation of said goal matters. Yes the goal of both games is to kill the big bad. Problem with this game is that the goal is muddied and makes zero sense after a while.
I know what Alterism said, but what Alterism said and what Devon said are different things. I am more than aware the plot is muddled hence why I said the plot is made by writers of smut. Where I disagree with Alterism and only them is how none of the sub-stories for all the series games don't makes sense by design. That was a tangent I want to express to them only.
When Devon responded to the question of why people here disliked Cait they respond that it all had to do with the story and nothing to do with Cait being the town bike. Then lied about the MC having no goal of their own. At least Alterism responded back how that did not make sense either. I'm calling that out too, because that is what people will say for a book,movie, or game when they dislike for a stupid reason and they're too afraid to say their stupid reason so they place the blame on the story. What Devon said was factually wrong, so I'm correctly stating most people here dislike Cait here because she is the town bike and that his point that MC had no goals of their own is bs reason to defend most everyone here disliking Cait for being a slut. To put it simply, what Aterism said was criticism, what Devon said was BS. Are there reasons people might have to not liking Cait, yeah I can think of a few like just not like the author but that was not what was being discussed.
They were never on a high horse. They stated their thoughts, weren't arrogant about it, and that's it. It doesn't matter if it's right or wrong, you do not have to be condescending just because you do not subscribe to their point of view. You are acting like you know them better than themselves/they are lying because they said a thing you don't agree with. Even if what they said was completely and unequivocally false, you can still have the sense to not put words in their mouth.
Yep go on and ignore themselves setting up to be on the moral high ground when responding to the question being asked. And if were to grant that they were not knowledgeable on the subject, they still chose to speak about things which they know about while claiming it to be the group's opinions. You want me to be less condescending to the person calling Cait the town bike, sure. I'll try to keep the discussion more civil next time, lest we have some feelings hurt by pushback.
There you go, the journey is over. The goal has been accomplished. MC can fuck off and do whatever they want because apparently we're weak as shit and all these NPCs are apparently stronger than us so there's no reason for us to engage with the story anymore.
[Another tangent] I still don't know how you guys even see any of the other npcs as near the player level. The only other ones who I would say is arguable there if not above us is Azzy and Eve when you decide to give them op powers. But remember this, you get to do chose to do that. You choose to make Ryn a capable Queen or not. This is like all the other fen games are a power fantasy through and through. You are the one taking back cities, you are the one saving most of these NPCs and their families. Without you in the story and this is hinted at in some endings the world will fall to ruin. Or are you trying to whine to me how there are characters in the world like the seven and Leoforic (whatever his name is) dude that were already beginning their journey before the MC was even born are somehow stronger than them at the beginning of their journey? This is not an isekai where you're reincarnated as the strongest being on Earth. This is a milder power fantasy that still wants you to at least have some progression or allude to it. This is not the extreme power fantasy you are wanting.
No, we really don't have that option. If you want to engage with any content, you have to push the story forwards.
Also the "don't like it don't play it" argument is fucking stupid in its own right. How about if you don't like people's criticisms you don't look at them? Same logic.
You said it's in your face when it's not. Like the fetishes, you choose who to interact with and how to interact with them are choices given to you. You currently don't have to involve yourself with Cait and if you feel "forced to" in order to access content involving them, you can limit some of the stuff you do with them, you can do almost everything without her. May that change in the future maybe but as of now you can ignore her just like you can not fuck anything in the game that has a dick. You are not gonna like everything in the game it's a given in a game that involves a lot of weird fetishes that's why they let you have options to kill that content, or just ignore it. It's not in your face if there is a button right underneath warning you about the content and asking you if you want to involve yourself in this. You can have your own opinions on things you don't like, feel free to say them, I'm free to respond with criticism of my own to, if you say overreaching statements like "they stuff it in your face" I'm free to respond with no because that's the last thing they are doing".
Is it that hard to figure out a game be a narrative story and be a mess of story at the same time? I'll be more clear when I say this, all of these games are made to write you into sexual scenarios.
I don't think you do.
Ignoring blatant delegitimization of legitimate complaints, we've already established that the presentation of the MC in CoC/TiTS and CoC2 are different and the impact this has on narrative when juxtaposed with lack of choice. The MC doesn't have a choice in the overarching "story" of CoC and doesn't have a choice on "why" they start the adventure in TiTS. But the player is ultimately responsible on the nature of the adventure and the mark you leave on the world in your wake.
To simplify this and avoid confusion:
- MC has all choices made for them and the game leaves next to no room to RP.
- Corruption as a mechanic and it's resulting impact on character personality is half-baked and underdelivered.
- Post WC (dev wise), the main character has had increasingly little direct impact on how a quest flows or it's conclusion. The biggest "choice" we've had in years is which character gets the super cool dragon powers. (Except if you kick Azzyran in the honey and you don't want to be sodomized by Evelyn you're out of luck.)
I still don't know why you bring in topics I did not bring up nor care to talk about. I have no reason to talk about the tits player having agency in the choices they make after the goal had already been given, that was not part of my point nor was I trying to refute any of that. I just brought up player agency to make fun of people using it as an excuse to have the writing to cater to them. I said don't look deeply into my statement because, I did not see any value in the original comment made, so I made it clear that their "interpretation" of the story was wrong and was handwaving the other issue nothing more nothing less. I don't care about how game mechanics are underused, I'm not ignoring legitimate complaints because those complaints were not legitimate. You giving a lifeline by saying the story of tits is much deeper than I am thinking because the player has the choice to end the story without completing the main story did not have any relation to the point I wanted to make of MCs goals being placed upon them at the start of the game with the exception of COC2 which handled it a slightly different.
Me saying the side quest are minigames does not mean they cannot also not be episodic, that was not the point I was trying to make. I was talking mainly about the side-quest themselves being somewhat isolated from the main story by design to allow the player to push in their wants (RP) where they can. All of this I made with the assumption we were discussing a different topic (hurdles or tits) not theirs. I not gonna argue someone else points trying to mangle back someone else inaccurate statement when it clearly was not what the original author intend to say.
I want to discuss how I don't believe the MC has choices made for them or why you think the player is getting less impact in the story when I think it's actually the opposite but it would annoying as their own separate issue because I want to know why you might think that. But I don't want to argue for points I did not make as if they were mine.
In regards to raw scenes, Cait has more than Kiyoko and she has more than Brienne and there's very few periods of this game where that isn't true and it was for months between the Den getting fleshed out and the whorehouse getting added. Sometime in 2021 IIRC.
This i'll concede on, I was not including smut content as to it being one of the reasons why Cait is so biased against. I was thinking narrowly based on story content but that would not be a fair assessment since smut is one of the more important factors of the game.
But I'd still contest that they have similar levels of content because I do include Kinu as a part of Kiyoko as well as Brint/Bri collectively as the same being. They have more of a divergent path of choices with the main one being to turn Brint into Bri, but because Brint still had those lived experiences which Bri refers back to it makes feel like their the same person and thus body or works. But that is just my opinion.
Nobody gives a fig about the story in borderlands and yet most people agree that Pre-Sequel is particularly bad in both departments and that 3 is negatively impacted and is only redeemed by having arguably the best gunplay in the franchise.
You don't have to care about the story/lore to make observations on why it's negatively impacting your experience. There are a lot of points of contention people have with this game. Laser focusing on one and handwaving the others with reductionist rhetoric "you just hate cait" is poor form.
I think I already said it above about putting words into people's mouths. I'm not arguing on how Cait is bad, i know people might dislike her for multiple reasons, I'm saying the reason they gave does not make sense and the majority of people dislike her for her promiscuity. I am not about to watch people say and agree that no one dislikes cait for that reason when everyone was foaming at their mouths when that mild scene with Cait and Quin was released which alluded to a possible future fling. In fact, I never even alluded to them hating Cait, I said it was in bad form to defend people on this thread to what was such an obvious answer with a bs statement. I don't know how saying a person's assessment of Cait is flawed from a factual standpoint, and I believe they are using it as an excuse to defend an obvious trend on this thread = you hate Cait.
Unless you are gonna argue with me on how my perception of the general consensus on cait (just like how you alluded to people in this thread disliking Kinu) or how saying the MC has no real goal is wrong, feel free to, because that was my main point and it's annoying how this is spiraling away from that for whatever reason. You can talk about how TITs, COC, and COC2 is about this and that or why Cait is a Mary Sue all you want go ahead but it means nothing against my previous point, if the op wants to say they misspoke and did not really mean to say the mc had no goal then let them. If not then I'll go on thinking they made up a lousy reason to excuse the animosity towards Cait in this thread.
Don't give me your justifications as theirs, I don't care why you think people might not like Cait because those are your opinions to make and I did not nor am going to try to refute them unless it is done apart from the previous admission. Because what you three are saying are mutually exclusive things, and it would make no sense to argue against them as if they were one thing when I only disagreed with one of them. If you want to argue their point go ahead tell me how the MC has no major goals.
I'm handwaving their assessment, not yours or anyone else.
