Others Corruption of Champions II [v0.8.16] [Savin/Salamander Studios]

[Jbuster]

Think the annoying (well, more of a nuisance) bit is how it's really just another OC on that regard. Nida paid for a character that, by default, appeals to them and maybe other folks but that's sort of accidental.

Which means there were actual work hours blown on this. In a game that's already taking ages to get done with.

Like I appreciate the lack of disruptiveness, you can turn it off and it'll be like she was never there but I can comprehend a bit of a slight.



Rugged good looks, so happens to have a female face and breasts.



I will say it's not the worst case of it (never forget Hired Gun), but it really doesn't help their case.

To be fair man even if they had the time we all know they would still waste it in something else, those the rules, the client is always wrong and anything that doesn't win the horny roulette with the staff is out. It happens that Kaly got a fat cock and fucks just like the official CoC2 mascot, but unlike said mascot there's little beyond being that manipulator you might pick along the way as the writer was busy fulfilling the horny

That's one of the reasons the Hirrud miracle can't never happen again, even if anyone here were to commission the inclusion of the official f95 chuddie oc, we know it would never reproduce that magic born from sniveling spite, that can't be replicated and money ain't a guarantee, in fact money is what's keeping this from going forward

 

[Alterism]

I mean personally it's a lot easier to predict a person like Kelt trying to take advantage of the PC than it is Kaly if we're just comparing initial meetings. That's what I mean by upfront.

This requires a lot of meta reasoning.
"Every asshole is a rapist." even in CoC that doesn't apply. Sheila's first meeting with you has her potentially slugging you. Owca is outwardly hospitable up until they throw you in the rape pit. You wouldn't interact with kelt because you thought he was a prick, not because you thought he was somehow going to manipulate him with his sex aura you don't know exists at this point.

If you attacked him on first meeting (actually is that even possible?) you're kind of an asshat in CoC1's universe.

Kelt is a dick but he's a dick that does what he says he is going to do (at least initially). Train you to use a bow. He even gives you a decently well crafted one. The point I was making is that the only thing he does is insult you. It takes a long time until you start getting molested.

not an in character one.

Sort of. I'll accept Wsan is being Wsan. But in the context of the game with which I made this statement around,

this character at 0 corruption whose only fucked two people in the entire game has gigantic horsecock lust.

We'll wrap back to that later.

Kaly is not an asshole and never forces herself upon the player until she collars them, thus there isn't really a good reason to beat Kaly up or getting her out of the game.

The entire reason I brought Kelt up in greater detail was to dispel the illusion that he was some on hand forceful character. He's not. By the time Kelt penetrates the PC once they're already thoroughly submissive and accepted his advances. The entire purpose of his sliding scale of submissiveness and the variants of the scene is to show how willingly the PC let's this process happen (if they let it happen at all)

Like I really do not understand this fascination with removing a character just because of meta knowledge.

To repeat a previous point "You could enter the game blind, do Kelt's training, see what he was leading into, and then beat him up. " No part of this has to do with meta knowledge. It's the overall lack of decision making once confronted with a problem. Which is also why I brought this up
"Kelt's original "defense" was also exactly the same. "Just don't do the content.""

I've already talked about it but your character gets no out. In your final encounter which locks you in the game offers this

So you are in universe at least apparently lucid in character to know something is wrong. No other character is like this.

The game gives you two options. Either do the content or stop doing it. No confronting her like Kelt, no intervention from your crew/party like Lane, no test of willpower with Alexandra, no nothing.
Your only act of resistance to something you know is wrong is to avoid it because the narrator told you to.

That's silly.

The defense you're giving right now is, "well she isn't attacking you outright so your character, whose mind is now occupied by horsecock 24/7, obviously wouldn't see anything is wrong and confront her about it."
Not even a conversation where the PC has a period of introspection was afforded.

Anybody with that as a point of contention would be entirely justified.
Wsan could have included two sentences at least addressing the elephant in the room and chose not to.
I find the character weaker for it.

That's not manipulation. It's stupidity.

 

[K1ng_C00mer]

Snip

Gah, thanks again for reminding me how utter annoying the writing can be in the game. That's probably my biggest pet peeve with how this game is written, as a writer myself who has written stories in the 2nd person. You really need to focus on the immersion aspect so much more. And in a video game with many fetishes and many paths (Hypothetically, of course), the fact writers like Wsan constantly insert the player drooling like a moron over an NPC they first meet is such an immersion breaker.

It's like that one D&D comic about the piss wizard in the piss forest that's clearly the DM's fetish and as his players are all looking at him horrified he eagerly asks them, "Dare you enter my magical realm?".

Just don't speak for the player. It's really that fucking simple. Keep it in your pants at least for the first few interactions. Once the player chooses to go down the path of futadom worship, sure, you can make the player a little bitty subby sissy or whatever your intentions are, but not in the introductions.

And I get what Wsan's trying to do here. He's trying to show us what Kaly's content is focused on, musk, but he's doing it in a way that railroads the RP. There's other ways of phrasing this text that could've done the same job without implying that the player has the hots for this character.

 

[Knife-wielding crab]

I don't think that's a controversial statement. Still, that's partially why I say anything you put to pen is equal parts conversation and persuasion. The scene I was talking about when I made this post was the body worshipping one IIRC. The character through introspection or otherwise uses "tomboy" as a descriptor. Constantly. Naturally the mind can't help but attach itself to this for any number of reasons.

Hmm..
Or maybe (probably) that's just me.

Anyway, one of the authors whose series I used to read when I was younger described one of the female characters as "more handsome than she was pretty," and he used this descriptor in every single book in that series when introducing her back to the audience including an alternative universe version of herself that was horribly scarred.

Used to drive me mad. What does that mean? You didn't describe anything!

There was one book about the battle of Agnicourt where the rough commander kept refering to the french as "cale farters".

It drived me nuts.

 

[Knife-wielding crab]

Gah, thanks again for reminding me how utter annoying the writing can be in the game. That's probably my biggest pet peeve with how this game is written, as a writer myself who has written stories in the 2nd person. You really need to focus on the immersion aspect so much more. And in a video game with many fetishes and many paths (Hypothetically, of course), the fact writers like Wsan constantly insert the player drooling like a moron over an NPC they first meet is such an immersion breaker.

It's like that one D&D comic about the piss wizard in the piss forest that's clearly the DM's fetish and as his players are all looking at him horrified he eagerly asks them, "Dare you enter my magical realm?".

Just don't speak for the player. It's really that fucking simple. Keep it in your pants at least for the first few interactions. Once the player chooses to go down the path of futadom worship, sure, you can make the player a little bitty subby sissy or whatever your intentions are, but not in the introductions.

And I get what Wsan's trying to do here. He's trying to show us what Kaly's content is focused on, musk, but he's doing it in a way that railroads the RP. There's other ways of phrasing this text that could've done the same job without implying that the player has the hots for this character.

Ye that is a part I also struggle with. Writing the PC is my least favorite part. You don't want to speak too much for the player, yet you don't want to make them into an emotionless sex toy.

I get around it by assuming if the player pressed the "Get gangbanged by minotaurs"-button, they enjoy getting gangbanged by minotaurs. So I write the PCs as enthusiastic in the sex scenes. If they picked the sub option, the PC is happy to get dominated. If they picked the dom option, they are happy to dominate. Etc, etc

 

[K1ng_C00mer]

Ye that is a part I also struggle with. Writing the PC is my least favorite part. You don't want to speak too much for the player, yet you don't want to make them into an emotionless sex toy.

I get around it by assuming if the player pressed the "Get gangbanged by minotaurs"-button, they enjoy getting gangbanged by minotaurs. So I write the PCs as enthusiastic in the sex scenes. If they picked the sub option, the PC is happy to get dominated. If they picked the dom option, they are happy to dominate. Etc, etc

I believe it. I constantly questioned myself when I was writing "Is this too dry? Is this boring? Am I putting words in the reader's mouth?". You think writing sex is awesome and hot at first, but when you get down to it, it's sort of difficult. At least for me.

You have to put to words an experience that has so much nuance and focus on the senses.

If you just describe the positions, you come out reading like a medical textbook.

If you write out moaning and grunting like it's dialogue (Like Wsan does), it's like a bad hentai comic.

If you try to pad it out with metaphor, you get Tobs's style with paragraph long tangents just to describe how a pussy feels like.

I myself just try to focus on describing the sensations and emotions the participants are feeling. I like writing intimate, lovey dovey scenes, so I like highlighting connection when it comes to sex. And then of course, you also have to deal with that good old conundrum of "What other words can I use to say penis other than just cock, dick, and manhood?" to avoid repetition but also fit the theme of the scene.

Having to deal with player choice and trying to make it so everyone sort of gets something out of your work really must be tough. Because while of course you're not going to please everyone, you still want to cover your bases and try to make it so everyone gets something even if they're not into what you're into.

 

[Knife-wielding crab]

I believe it. I constantly questioned myself when I was writing "Is this too dry? Is this boring? Am I putting words in the reader's mouth?". You think writing sex is awesome and hot at first, but when you get down to it, it's sort of difficult. At least for me.

You have to put to words an experience that has so much nuance and focus on the senses.

If you just describe the positions, you come out reading like a medical textbook.

If you write out moaning and grunting like it's dialogue (Like Wsan does), it's like a bad hentai comic.

If you try to pad it out with metaphor, you get Tobs's style with paragraph long tangents just to describe how a pussy feels like.

I myself just try to focus on describing the sensations and emotions the participants are feeling. I like writing intimate, lovey dovey scenes, so I like highlighting connection when it comes to sex. And then of course, you also have to deal with that good old conundrum of "What other words can I use to say penis other than just cock, dick, and manhood?" to avoid repetition but also fit the theme of the scene.

Having to deal with player choice and trying to make it so everyone sort of gets something out of your work really must be tough. Because while of course you're not going to please everyone, you still want to cover your bases and try to make it so everyone gets something even if they're not into what you're into.

Another thing I found a bit tricky is intimare between PC and a character.

I have a habit of using more intimate terms even when they aren't warrented like "your man" or "your lover".

For example a NPC with sex scenes from the get-go. Intimate phrases might not be a good idea since some players just want some casual sex.

The best way I found with this is to gate the intimate words behind a date scene or a quest line.

 

[Tsubuhaza]

To be fair man even if they had the time we all know they would still waste it in something else, those the rules, the client is always wrong and anything that doesn't win the horny roulette with the staff is out. It happens that Kaly got a fat cock and fucks just like the official CoC2 mascot, but unlike said mascot there's little beyond being that manipulator you might pick along the way as the writer was busy fulfilling the horny

That's one of the reasons the Hirrud miracle can't never happen again, even if anyone here were to commission the inclusion of the official f95 chuddie oc, we know it would never reproduce that magic born from sniveling spite, that can't be replicated and money ain't a guarantee, in fact money is what's keeping this from going forward

That's the thing, I agree with you. I'm just pointing the one issue I could see from a character you can literally toggle off.

And even then, the issue is a bit of a stretch. Like a certain stretch I stumbled upon seeing featuring said character I refuse to refer further besides in jest.

 

[MoneyMan181]

This requires a lot of meta reasoning.
"Every asshole is a rapist." even in CoC that doesn't apply. Sheila's first meeting with you has her potentially slugging you. Owca is outwardly hospitable up until they throw you in the rape pit. You wouldn't interact with kelt because you thought he was a prick, not because you thought he was somehow going to manipulate him with his sex aura you don't know exists at this point.

I... I have no idea why you're putting those words in my mouth. I never even remotely implied that, it's just not hard to intuit that if I'm playing a porn game that has rape and corruption as a major premise, that an asshole character might do that kind of thing. Key word might, as that genuinely is the case with several other characters in CoC1 And regardless if it's meta or not, the point still stands that it's easier to assume the characters demeanor in potential sex scenes if the character were to have any.

To repeat a previous point "You could enter the game blind, do Kelt's training, see what he was leading into, and then beat him up. " No part of this has to do with meta knowledge. It's the overall lack of decision making once confronted with a problem.

Just like Kelt, the game alludes to, at least some degree, what the content will be about. With Kelt the first lewd thing you're confronted with is him demanding the PC to strip in order to continue receiving lessons. If you refuse, that's the end of it and you don't see him anymore. This establishes that he's going to to be the guy calling the shots and manipulating you. With Kaly, the PC eyefucks her cock right off the get go and Kaly is obviously confident in herself so it's not hard to piece together what is likely to happen. If you refuse, that's the end of it and you're free to come back later or never.

The only big difference is the removing from the game part, which I don't see the big deal of considering you can just ignore her for the rest of the game.

Spoiler: Squish

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

 

[YouShallNotLol]

...Why are you mad at them at all? How is it their fault in any way, shape, or form that the devs didn't write a scene to deal with Kaly in a more permanent sense?

Actually as a matter of fact, I'm actually going to defend the fact that there isn't an option to kill her to some degree. It would literally make zero sense to fight her as she seems like a relatively normal person up until the point you start giving her items. Even then, it's not really justifiable to fight her until she actually collars you. What are you going to do, blame her for the PC acting like a slut?

Now if the devs gave an option to back out of it once you're already in deep, like Lane hypnotizing you in TiTS, that'd be cool and I would appreciate that. But you're not even the type of person to sub to her even once so legitimately what are you complaining for? This isn't like Kelt because Kelt is an asshole right out the gate and is very upfront about his intentions, so it actually makes sense to be able to shut him down instantly. With Kaly, she obscures her intentions until the very last moment. Sure she's a centaur futadom, but there's others in the game that don't surprise collar you to their cock just for submitting to them.

The only excuse the PC would have to fight her before getting collared would just be generic murderhobo shit. It's not immersion breaking to just decide to not talk to someone again. You do it in real life on the regular, so why is it such a heinous concept in a game? Just because YOU don't like the content, doesn't inherently mean there should be an option to expunge it from the game completely.

I mean personally it's a lot easier to predict a person like Kelt trying to take advantage of the PC than it is Kaly if we're just comparing initial meetings. That's what I mean by upfront. It's very easy to tell what kind of person Kelt is from the get go while it's not as obvious with Kaly.

This is a meta reason, not an in character one. I was solely referring to in character justifications as to why the PC would somehow justifiably do something to Kaly in order to remove her from the game. From a role-playing sense, the PC showing interest in Kaly's nuts does not indicate her demeanor or potential to enslave the PC, it's just Wsan shoving thoughts into the PC's head prematurely.

Again, the entire point I'm making is IN CHARACTER reasoning. Kaly is not an asshole and never forces herself upon the player until she collars them, thus there isn't really a good reason to beat Kaly up or getting her out of the game. Otherwise why wouldn't we just be able to beat up and kill every character we don't like from the get go? Like I really do not understand this fascination with removing a character just because of meta knowledge. With Kelt there is a reason because he is a complete prick from the get-go, so it makes sense if the PC would just not stand for his shit.

Legitimately what is your suggestion for the PC having a real in character reason to actually want to beat up and get rid of Kaly without altering the premise or doing heavy rewrites? Because as it stands, I find the idea incredibly ridiculous considering how you have to even agree to it when it's already HEAVILY implied both in character and out.

I get it, she's your favourite futadom, and you're ready to give up your life to keep sucking that dick and getting vored by her... But you're acting just as unreasonable as your accusations paint the picture of people who want to get rid of Kaly.

You want in-character reason? Here's the truth bomb for you: I am the Player Character. I am the reason PC even breathes. I am the driving force behind Player Character's any given action and/or decision.
I'd go so far as to say that BG3 is a better sequel to CoC than CoC2. Because BG3 adheres to the philosophy of player agency and freedom of choice (and doesn't actively hate its own players) than CoC2 ever could.
And Kaly stripping off all that agency and freedom only makes her character that much more annoying and dislikeable.

 

[Jbuster]

You want in-character reason? Here's the truth bomb for you: I am the Player Character. I am the reason PC even breathes. I am the driving force behind Player Character's any given action and/or decision.

That only happens in good games and we ain't playing that

In CoC2 there are no choices and everything you click is gay

 

[ScholarOfTheFirstSin]

This requires a lot of meta reasoning.
"Every asshole is a rapist." even in CoC that doesn't apply. Sheila's first meeting with you has her potentially slugging you. Owca is outwardly hospitable up until they throw you in the rape pit. You wouldn't interact with kelt because you thought he was a prick, not because you thought he was somehow going to manipulate him with his sex aura you don't know exists at this point.

If you attacked him on first meeting (actually is that even possible?) you're kind of an asshat in CoC1's universe.

Kelt is a dick but he's a dick that does what he says he is going to do (at least initially). Train you to use a bow. He even gives you a decently well crafted one. The point I was making is that the only thing he does is insult you. It takes a long time until you start getting molested.


Sort of. I'll accept Wsan is being Wsan. But in the context of the game with which I made this statement around,

this character at 0 corruption whose only fucked two people in the entire game has gigantic horsecock lust.

We'll wrap back to that later.


The entire reason I brought Kelt up in greater detail was to dispel the illusion that he was some on hand forceful character. He's not. By the time Kelt penetrates the PC once they're already thoroughly submissive and accepted his advances. The entire purpose of his sliding scale of submissiveness and the variants of the scene is to show how willingly the PC let's this process happen (if they let it happen at all)


To repeat a previous point "You could enter the game blind, do Kelt's training, see what he was leading into, and then beat him up. " No part of this has to do with meta knowledge. It's the overall lack of decision making once confronted with a problem. Which is also why I brought this up
"Kelt's original "defense" was also exactly the same. "Just don't do the content.""

I've already talked about it but your character gets no out. In your final encounter which locks you in the game offers this

So you are in universe at least apparently lucid in character to know something is wrong. No other character is like this.

The game gives you two options. Either do the content or stop doing it. No confronting her like Kelt, no intervention from your crew/party like Lane, no test of willpower with Alexandra, no nothing.
Your only act of resistance to something you know is wrong is to avoid it because the narrator told you to.

That's silly.

The defense you're giving right now is, "well she isn't attacking you outright so your character, whose mind is now occupied by horsecock 24/7, obviously wouldn't see anything is wrong and confront her about it."
Not even a conversation where the PC has a period of introspection was afforded.

Anybody with that as a point of contention would be entirely justified.
Wsan could have included two sentences at least addressing the elephant in the room and chose not to.
I find the character weaker for it.

That's not manipulation. It's stupidity.

nice
you destroyed this savin alt account aka
@
MoneyMan181

 

[Sacred_Lamb]

I now realize that I've spelt it wrong and apologized to "Milquetoast," I've spelt wrong all my life.

 

[Sacred_Lamb]

The entire point I was trying to make was, Sacred Lamb is not the type of player to bother with futadom content, maybe futa content period. They complain about not having an option to remove Kaly from the game, which I could actually understand. But the issue is, they're not the type of player to get into her content at all. So okay, the only real option that would satisfy them would be to get rid of her before anything sexual happens between Kaly and the PC.

Oi, don't assume my thoughts. I have been very clear on what I meant when I mentioned Kelt. If it ain't obvious, I play the game like a rumba, I absorb Content and how I get to interact with said content. In fact I've openly said I'm into Jael'yn, because I get to choose how I interact with her and my character isn't made to have feels for her without my consent.

 

[Sacred_Lamb]

Ye that is a part I also struggle with. Writing the PC is my least favorite part. You don't want to speak too much for the player, yet you don't want to make them into an emotionless sex toy.

I get around it by assuming if the player pressed the "Get gangbanged by minotaurs"-button, they enjoy getting gangbanged by minotaurs. So I write the PCs as enthusiastic in the sex scenes. If they picked the sub option, the PC is happy to get dominated. If they picked the dom option, they are happy to dominate. Etc, etc

I don't know if i've mentioned this before, but but I think Disco Elysium and the Fallout series does it really well when it comes on to giving the player a voice but still getting their consent. Using named STATS to give the player a personality, it just makes so much sense and the fact that they did not catch that is mind blowing.
Because there are named stats in the game. There's multiple name stats, and the fact that those aren't used to indicate player personality or a character trait is just....It makes my it makes me tear my hair out.

 

[Alterism]

See. This is why I included that foreword about not wanting to be drawn into the larger conversation. From the jump this entire thing was about Kelt and saying how he's not so different (but still better implemented) than Kaly.

I... I have no idea why you're putting those words in my mouth. I never even remotely implied that, it's just not hard to intuit that if I'm playing a porn game that has rape and corruption as a major premise, that an asshole character might do that kind of thing

rmm...
We're going to leave this out of the spoiler

This isn't like Kelt because Kelt is an asshole right out the gate and is very upfront about his intentions

I mean personally it's a lot easier to predict a person like Kelt trying to take advantage of the PC than it is Kaly if we're just comparing initial meetings.

I didn't put words in your mouth.
You implied and later directly stated that because Kelt is an asshole, you could reasonably predict that he would try to dom you. I countered that the game consistently shows that a characters outward personality can be deceiving, and in fact, usually is. Most characters with bad ends or whom try to rape you hide behind false affability. Nearly every single asshole attempts to dominate you on the spot. Akbal's big entrance is him stating his name and telling you to "'submit' or die". Kelt was unique specifically because his corruption of the PC is a slow burn.

Spoiler: mega squish

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Lastly

Spoiler: GRAVITY SQUEEZE

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Anyways, Kelt was literally designed for submissive players in mind, but he had options for players who aren't into the content at nearly every step of the way in. Appealing to both the fetish enjoyer and the videogame enjoyer.

Wsan has a substantially higher word count with substantially less player consideration.

Using named STATS to give the player a personality, it just makes so much sense and the fact that they did not catch that is mind blowing.

I love games that use your character sheet to decide what you are.

If I have a stat distribution worthy of my chosen name I want that game to rub my nose in it.
Said Chosen name; Glunk McThwack.

Send me to the timeline where Troika didn't go bust and Interplay wasn't Interplay.

 

[Tamsay]

Talking about stats really brings me back to CoC and all the things that could go wrong (including bad ends) if you were too dumb, or too weak or too endowed among other. Granted, as a result I have a tendency to hyperfocus on intelligence in many a game because of it, but it made for a rewarding feeling.

I recall meeting Kalysea when she was first released and I faintly remember being bothered by my highly intelligent scholar white mage's lack of reaction, but by that point it felt like it was rarely used to begin with. If I can believe the wiki though, it seems the only variation is whether you've seen another centaur cock before?

Either way, I tried going through her content, couldn't do it. Just felt like I got pushed onto a railroad and for what? I'm giving away artifacts to become a sub, for someone who seems alone, nobody else clamoring for the position. It just felt detached.

Reading about Kelt here did remind me just how smooth the submissiveness to him felt. He was a dick, but you had a reason to come again in the form of archery training - potentially a great reward. You could opt out, wait until the stat went down and go back to training if you wanted to avoid him taking over while training with the bow. You could try to stick to high submissiveness if you wanted him to go rough. And it just worked.

 

[Sacred_Lamb]

Send me to the timeline where Troika didn't go bust and Interplay wasn't Interplay.

In another life, friend. Arcanum is still the most enthralling rpg I've played in a HOT minute.

You must be registered to see the links

 

[MoneyMan181]

Spoiler: squash

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Send me to the timeline where Troika didn't go bust and Interplay wasn't Interplay.

I miss Black Isle man...
I wanted a decent VTMB sequel...
I wish Fallout wasn't Bethesda slop...

 

[Sacred_Lamb]

And it just worked.

Say that again