VN Ren'Py Completed Dating My Daughter [Ch. 1-4 v1.01] [MrDots Games]

[exazubi]

I never thought the MC was a very developed character. He has opinions of his own sure, but not in a sexual sense. Unless you count being perfectly fine with everything D is. Aside from the him asking if she really wants it he just goes along with whatever happens. Even when the player has a chance to stop a situation you will usually get a few lines of inner monologue from D saying how she guesses he want into it as much as she was.

You also can't completely disregard a players personal opinions of the events. This isn't a KN where you are just along for the ride, even though it feels like that at times. The players are always going to have personal preferences and being able to choose them is kind of the whole point. Expecting every player to just go with it is an unrealistic expectation. In a sense the MC and D are a blank slate in sexual situations. You can be for or against something, I just don't think it's executed particularly well.

None of that matters. This discussion here is apparently once again about the forum definition of NTR (which has nearly nothing to do with the real definition). And according to the forums definition, a scene is NTR when a LI has sex with someone other than the MC + the MC feels jealous about it. And that is the crux of the matter: it's about the MC's feelings, not the player's.

First of all, there are only extremely few scenes in the game where there is only the option that a LI ever has sex with someone else. The game was originally planned completely differently, but under pressure from most of the patreons it developed in this way. And in the scenes that exist today where a LI has sex with someone else, the MC is not jealous. The inner monologues you mentioned prove it, as do countless dialogues between F/D. And with that, according to the forum definition, the topic of NTR is off the table.

 

[Skeltom]

None of that matters. This discussion here is apparently once again about the forum definition of NTR (which has nearly nothing to do with the real definition). And according to the forums definition, a scene is NTR when a LI has sex with someone other than the MC + the MC feels jealous about it. And that is the crux of the matter: it's about the MC's feelings, not the player's.

First of all, there are only extremely few scenes in the game where there is only the option that a LI ever has sex with someone else. The game was originally planned completely differently, but under pressure from most of the patreons it developed in this way. And in the scenes that exist today where a LI has sex with someone else, the MC is not jealous. The inner monologues you mentioned prove it, as do countless dialogues between F/D. And with that, according to the forum definition, the topic of NTR is off the table.

I must have miss the beginning of the conversation. I wasn't aware that the crux of the problem was NTR. My comment was just a general opinion of how the situations are handled in the game. There are so many different stances on NTR that it's always a losing battle. It's one of the topics around here I stay away from because it usually just turns into a clusterfuck of insults and finger pointing.

 

[Trikus]

I never thought the MC was a very developed character. He has opinions of his own sure, but not in a sexual sense. Unless you count being perfectly fine with everything D is. Aside from the him asking if she really wants it he just goes along with whatever happens. Even when the player has a chance to stop a situation you will usually get a few lines of inner monologue from D saying how she guesses he want into it as much as she was.

You also can't completely disregard a players personal opinions of the events. This isn't a KN where you are just along for the ride, even though it feels like that at times. The players are always going to have personal preferences and being able to choose them is kind of the whole point. Expecting every player to just go with it is an unrealistic expectation. In a sense the MC and D are a blank slate in sexual situations. You can be for or against something, I just don't think it's executed particularly well.

I must have miss the beginning of the conversation. I wasn't aware that the crux of the problem was NTR. My comment was just a general opinion of how the situations are handled in the game. There are so many different stances on NTR that it's always a losing battle. It's one of the topics around here I stay away from because it usually just turns into a clusterfuck of insults and finger pointing.

You missed the end of the conversation too when I said: " The reader feeling jealous is not NTR." Also, I have no issue with people sharing their opinions, but it is when they try to pass their opinions off as fact when the facts say the opposite that things get messy. He was saying, in his opinion, there is NTR because the player can feel jealous about sharing D. That is just plain wrong as NTR is when the character feels jealous. And since the MC doesn't feel jealous, his opinion is not fact, and is just an opinion. There is no NTR in this game, and that is the fact.

 

[Skeltom]

You missed the end of the conversation too when I said: " The reader feeling jealous is not NTR." Also, I have no issue with people sharing their opinions, but it is when they try to pass their opinions off as fact when the facts say the opposite that things get messy. He was saying, in his opinion, there is NTR because the player can feel jealous about sharing D. That is just plain wrong as NTR is when the character feels jealous. And since the MC doesn't feel jealous, his opinion is not fact, and is just an opinion. There is no NTR in this game, and that is the fact.

Yeah, no one is jealous of anyone in this game. Except maybe D when it comes to the MC showing interest in Elena a few times. But that's just general jealousy that has nothing to do with with it. There are also a few lines of dialogue of the characters wondering if they should be worried about the attractions. But worry and concern aren't jealousy.

 

[exazubi]

That is just plain wrong as NTR is when the character feels jealous.

Correction: it is according to the definition of this forum.

In reality, in the Far East mangas, where it actually comes from, it is understood as (N)e (T)o (R)are and (N)e (T)o (R)i, sometimes also netorase (the last one we know as cuckold). That's actually where the letters come from. In the forum definition, these letters make no sense. Classically, however, the first two things are understood by it. Both are just culpit-victims perspective of the same thing. And also clearly defined. Anyone interested can google that.

And between these definitions and how it is defined here in the forum, there are really worlds. And when I then also read every day what the haters in particular also interpret into it, my toenails finally roll up. Meanwhile this tag has been so watered down that it actually doesn't make any sense anymore.

 

[Trikus]

Correction: it is according to the definition of this forum.

In reality, in the Far East mangas, where it actually comes from, it is understood as (N)e (T)o (R)are and (N)e (T)o (R)i, sometimes also netorase (the last one we know as cuckold). That's actually where the letters come from. In the forum definition, these letters make no sense. Classically, however, the first two things are understood by it. Both are just culpit-victims perspective of the same thing. And also clearly defined. Anyone interested can google that.

And between these definitions and how it is defined here in the forum, there are really worlds. And when I then also read every day what the haters in particular also interpret into it, my toenails finally roll up. Meanwhile this tag has been so watered down that it actually doesn't make any sense anymore.

Actually Netorase isn't cuckold. Netorase is when the man encourages his LI to sleep with other men for his sexual gratification. Cuckold is when the LI is unfaithful and man gets pleasure watching it. I know it is a very slight difference, but they are not the same thing, that is why they are two separate terms.

 

[hcguy]

There is, however, potential for the player feeling jealous.

I'm trying to wrap my head around the idea that an actual human person would get jealous over what one collection of pixels "does" with another collection of pixels. I am aware that, sadly, there actually are people who do. I just truly cannot understand it.

 

[Segnbora]

There is, however, potential for the player feeling jealous.

If you're playing a game (not this one) and like to pretend that one of your love interests is your sister, does the game need an incest tag? Even if the writer insists that she's not related to you in any way?

No? Then a given player's feelings of jealousy aren't netorare, either. And they certainly aren't taggable by F95's rules.

 

[jamdan]

This game doesn't have any NTR or jealousy due to the simple fact that the other male characters go out of their way to ask MC for permission every time they do anything with D. Specifically to protect the players feelings and avoid anything close to NTR.

 

[Yngling]

You keep putting out dumb ideas. It doesn't matter if the player feels jealous because the player isn't the MC. This isn't a game where the MC is a blank slate you can pretend is you. He is a developed character. The reader feeling jealous is not NTR.

Why do you think the NTR haters keep crying NTR? Because they feel jealous!

Also, don't agree with your "not a blank slate" comment.
Neither F nor Dee are very deep and interesting characters, neither is the story.
As such, this game is very good for self-insertion.

This is not a dig against the game because it's obviously very successful.

Again, you are treating your opinion as fact, when the facts say something completely different. You really need to learn the difference between fact and opinion.

Bullshit. The fact is that the F95Zone definition of NTR does not define whether the MC or the player should feel jealous. Therefore both are completely valid. And, that, my friend, is a fact.

I'm trying to wrap my head around the idea that an actual human person would get jealous over what one collection of pixels "does" with another collection of pixels. I am aware that, sadly, there actually are people who do. I just truly cannot understand it.

It's called self-insertion...

Whether that's a good idea or not, is an entirely different discussion.

If you're playing a game (not this one) and like to pretend that one of your love interests is your sister, does the game need an incest tag? Even if the writer insists that she's not related to you in any way?

No? Then a given player's feelings of jealousy aren't netorare, either. And they certainly aren't taggable by F95's rules.

Isn't that the entire point of the landlady / roommate trope? That you can "pretend" it's incest while the writer can claim plausible deniability?

Obviously such games are, in fact, incest.

There are, very rarely, games where the "mom" / "sis" characters are revealed as not, in fact, related to the MC for story purposes (as opposed to Patreon pressure). "Sins of the Father" is a very good example of this. In my opinion (there we go again), this is fine, since it means that the creator actually has some creative ideas rather than rehashing the tropes with slightly different characters. But in most of such cases, there is backlash from the community.

 

[Segnbora]

Isn't that the entire point of the landlady / roommate trope? That you can "pretend" it's incest while the writer can claim plausible deniability?

Obviously such games are, in fact, incest.

Obviously, they are not. The incest is in your head. The dev might be winking and nodding at the player base, but if they actually wanted incest in the game there are ways to put it there. That you're imagining an NPC is actually a girl you had a crush on in high school does not, in fact, make her that girl. Your crush isn't in the game. Neither is incest. For there to actually be incest in the game you're going to need a mod, or at least a patch.

So let's say that happens, and now there's incest in the actual game script. What if I, a player, don't want a given NPC to be my sister? Does that mean there's no longer incest in the game? Does that mean that the incest tag should be removed because I don't imagine an incestuous relationship?

Of course not. You're free to create any interior fantasy world you wish — it's part of why these games serve a different niche than regular porn — but it doesn't mean your fantasies are actually in the game. D is not a 5000-year-old succubus centaur, even if that's what I "feel" she is.

 

[Yngling]

Obviously, they are not. The incest is in your head. The dev might be winking and nodding at the player base, but if they actually wanted incest in the game there are ways to put it there. That you're imagining an NPC is actually a girl you had a crush on in high school does not, in fact, make her that girl. Your crush isn't in the game. Neither is incest. For there to actually be incest in the game you're going to need a mod, or at least a patch.]

So let's say that happens, and now there's incest in the actual game script. What if I, a player, don't want a given NPC to be my sister? Does that mean there's no longer incest in the game? Does that mean that the incest tag should be removed because I don't imagine an incestuous relationship?

Of course not. You're free to create any interior fantasy world you wish — it's part of why these games serve a different niche than regular porn — but it doesn't mean your fantasies are actually in the game. D is not a 5000-year-old succubus centaur, even if that's what I "feel" she is.

I think that the landlady / roommate tropes are so well developed by now that their practically synonyms for mom and sis...
Most landlady / roommate games don't make any sense at all without a patch.
But anyway.

That you mention "imagining an NPC is actually a girl you had a crush on in high school" is an interesting point.
The reason why some games let you pick names for practically all love interests, whether "related" to the MC or not, is to create immersion and self-insertion.
Yes, such girls may not look or behave anything like your high school crush, but it still enhances the fantasy.
Especially when the story itself is not particularly strong, allowing the player to mentally fill in the blanks to make the characters more like the actual persons you know.

If you dislike incest you can of course not use a patch or create a patch which renames mom to landlady but the story won't make a lot of sense anymore. (why is it a taboo / wrong to fuck your landlady???)

Edited to say: I have no opinion when it comes to tags. They are often wrong, irrelevant or incomplete anyway. It is what it is.
For the record, I also have no opinion whether DmD contains NTR or not, and whether the tag is justified, or not.
I don't care at all about any of those things.

 

[DigDug69]

I think that the landlady / roommate tropes are so well developed by now that their practically synonyms for mom and sis...
Most landlady / roommate games don't make any sense at all without a patch.
But anyway.

That you mention "imagining an NPC is actually a girl you had a crush on in high school" is an interesting point.
The reason why some games let you pick names for practically all love interests, whether "related" to the MC or not, is to create immersion and self-insertion.
Yes, such girls may not look or behave anything like your high school crush, but it still enhances the fantasy.
Especially when the story itself is not particularly strong, allowing the player to mentally fill in the blanks to make the characters more like the actual persons you know.

If you dislike incest you can of course not use a patch or create a patch which renames mom to landlady but the story won't make a lot of sense anymore. (why is it a taboo / wrong to fuck your landlady???)

Edited to say: I have no opinion when it comes to tags. They are often wrong, irrelevant or incomplete anyway. It is what it is.
For the record, I also have no opinion whether DmD contains NTR or not, and whether the tag is justified, or not.
I don't care at all about any of those things.

So, basically, all that you are talking about are things that are in the players heads and not actually really in the game?
Even the roommate stories are not incest, even though it is easy enough for the "player" to imagine that it is.
But that is only in the players mind, and not actually in the game itself.

Heck, damned near any game can be incest, simply by naming the MC either Daddy or Mommy...
But again, that is only in that players mind, and not in the game.
Just like any supposed NTR in DMD is only in an individual players mind, and not actually in the game.

So, I can't really see the point of this discussion being here. Since what we are talking about is only in the players minds and is off topic for this game, and should not be here at all.
Since the groups rules do not allow off topic discussions or discussing other games in game threads.

 

[cxx]

i'm surprised that mods haven't acted already.

 

[Yngling]

So, basically, all that you are talking about are things that are in the players heads and not actually really in the game?
Even the roommate stories are not incest, even though it is easy enough for the "player" to imagine that it is.
But that is only in the players mind, and not actually in the game itself.

Actually that seems to be Segnbora 's position.

But you are right, all of this has gotten extremely off-topic.

My apologies...

My point is that DMD is a game which lends itself well for self-insertion, especially in chapter 1, because it focussed almost entirely about the MC-Dee relationship and not on the backstory. If you do self-insert, then that does change the perception of jealousy as well.

Anyway, I'm kind of done with this discussion. Anybody: feel free to take it to the Off-topic section and tag me.

 

[Big Rooster]

Since dad and daughter are in Sunshine bay. I'd like to see them meet up with the MC and his sis from Sunshine love and have a foursome/swapping scene.

DMD dad could be taking his daughter out on a date to some dance club and Sunshine love MC and his sis could be there at the same club on a date, they bump into each other and hit it off, then they get drunk together then decide to head back to DMD's hotel room.

Hell it would be even better if they bumped into Sunshine loves girlfriend Nicole and after the initial shock of running into her all of them get drunk together then head back to daddy and daughter's hotel and have a nice 5some/swinging/ganbanging orgie.

Yeah it is just a dream in my head but damn does is it sound really good.

I think the timeline in D.M.D. is ahead by 5 or 10 years judging by Martin's daughters age. But Martin & F hooking up with a younger S.L. MC's Sister would be hot.

 

[cxx]

I think the timeline in D.M.D. is ahead by 5 or 10 years judging by Martin's daughters age. But Martin & F hooking up with a younger S.L. MC's Sister would be hot.

she's totally underager in dmd you pervs.

dmd is 0, melody -5, sl +5.

 

[Big Rooster]

she's totally underager in dmd you pervs.

dmd is 0, melody -5, sl +5.

so? she would about "coming of age"

 

[cxx]

so?

so no f and m banging her (all chars need to be atleast 18).

 

[Big Rooster]

so no f and m banging her (all chars need to be atleast 18).

she could of had a fake ID