- Dec 17, 2017
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Which means no Mac or Linux versions. But, hey, if you guys want to throw money away, that's your prerogative.
- Apr 12, 2018
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Well, that were you eyeing up? Because that's not what @VonRaschke asked either.
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The problem isn't just her disbelief. Ok, she's young, maybe she's being flippant, but this is way beyond just mistrust. Within a chapter or so, she goes from the honeymoon phase of her relationship to literally not coming home, withholding information and moving in with a woman she barely knows. Let's say her world view is rocked and she needs to process, I don't know a single person, teenager or not, that wouldn't go stay at a friends house. She trusts Kathy with incest fan fiction she wrote of her own father, but decides to move in with her aunt, a woman she's been told can't be trusted? She knows Moe is investigating the money her father apparently stole, but Amanda seems to have went all in on her father being a thief before even hearing the results of that investigation.Suddenly shown what seemed obvious documentary evidence that the MC (her father... figure) had ripped off her dying mother, stolen her inheritance, etc., Mandy's alienation seems plausible to me.
"But surely she should at least demand a face-to-face meeting with the MC, and challenge him?" Maybe. But shock can do odd things even to people who are not so "young and innocent" as A still seems to be.
Yes, of course, ideally, anyone would like Amanda to "grow up" and take more courage, be sensible - and possibly get it on with Moe? heh-heh - but hey, she's still very young, in her sheltered life and way.
Admittedly, I may be being too easily influenced myself here, by the preview picture of Amanda for Ch17 at the end of Ch16 - she looks sensational - but ...~ No but seriously, why hate Amanda?
TLDR: It's ridiculous that Amanda wouldn't confront her father, but there were dozens of ways this could have panned out that would have made more sense than the rush-job, 180 of Amanda's characterization that the dev went with.
I thought what I wrote about Heidi's change of heart precisely covered all that?
Threesome - it seems - brings home the inadequacy (to her) of a casual basis.
She was (as I said) heavily drunk the previous occasion. Which overrode her misgivings. Then she had regrets. One more time, less drunk, much as she likes Kathy, mightily enjoyable as Kathy's tongue is - but makes her realize she wants more of the MC, on a more frequent, regular basis - has the effect of pushing her over the edge. To the bathroom.
It's exciting for her - too exciting maybe - but she can't live with it. She wants things simpler. And wants the MC more.
The psychology looks 100% plausible to me.
VonRaschke and yourself seem to be calling it out as an implausible huge twist. It flows completely, to me. Feelings, desires and wishes evolve. From experiences, and experience. They are not set in stone, forever to stay the same.
Threesome - it seems - brings home the inadequacy (to her) of a casual basis.
She was (as I said) heavily drunk the previous occasion. Which overrode her misgivings. Then she had regrets. One more time, less drunk, much as she likes Kathy, mightily enjoyable as Kathy's tongue is - but makes her realize she wants more of the MC, on a more frequent, regular basis - has the effect of pushing her over the edge. To the bathroom.
It's exciting for her - too exciting maybe - but she can't live with it. She wants things simpler. And wants the MC more.
The psychology looks 100% plausible to me.
VonRaschke and yourself seem to be calling it out as an implausible huge twist. It flows completely, to me. Feelings, desires and wishes evolve. From experiences, and experience. They are not set in stone, forever to stay the same.
- Sep 19, 2018
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Two thngs: do we ever actually SEE the evidence or is it just the aunt showing it to Amanda? If it's the latter, than it does seem pretty skeevy that Amanda wouldn't want to talk to her SUPPOSED FATHER. I really can't stress that enough. The guy who's been her father throughout her whole life and now her fuck-buddy is supposedly a person she didn't know. Sorry if people would like a bit more skepticism from that. Oh, and she isn't that "young and innocent" anymore. Screwing one's dad probably eliminates that option.
If it's the former, than I feel like that would be tied in with giving the MC a chance to defend himself. Moe? Sure, have Moe turn on MC in a heartbeat, that's fine. But the MC's daughter? Nah, I'm not buying it, especially when given no reason to believe anything to contrary for years before.
As for being very young and sheltered? No, there's no way that holds up. She helps run a diner for her single father with her best friend and chose to take upon more duties in running said diner. Not to mention she also has begun an incestual relationship with her father. I really wouldn't call that sheltered.
- Apr 12, 2018
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I can't speak for @VonRaschke, but I don't think it's implausible. It is a twist, designed to make us choose a particular girl, and while I could see someone having second thoughts and backing out of a threesome because they want more, I don't think it was very consistently set up.
We go on precisely one date with Heidi. Since then and now there are numerous opportunities for further sexual exploration. At no point, either before, during or after does Heidi ever suggest that she isn't interested in a casual relationship or that she's only interested in the MC if its a serious, committed relationship, despite the fact that a casual, no-strings, occasional sex relationship is exactly what she's been quite happily partaking in all this time. If this kind of thing was a dealbreaker for her, I'd have expected it to come up before now. It's not like we're still getting to know each other. She works for the MC and took him to a high school reunion.
You're right that feelings, desires and wishes evolve. There's just no evidence that's what happened here.
People usually get pretty defensive about their partners, that's why it's not a good idea to tell your friend his girlfriend is cheating on him. Amanda fantasized the relationship with her father for a long time, then they risked a lot by starting a taboo relationship. It's definitely weird how fast she turned against him, so if no other information is provided in the last chapter I can see it as unrealistic. But then, you're very naive if you think people don't turn their backs to friends, family and lovers based on the words of strangers, specially young people.
About Heidi, she's a bit older than the other girls, and usually older people (well, young people too, but less often I'd think) assume they are already in an exclusive relationship once you start going out on dates and fucking somebody. Couples usually don't start being faithful or exclusive only after they decide to talk about the rules of their relationship. If I start to see someone and discover she's still fucking a bunch of other guys, even if we're not officially dating, I'll probably move away, that's not how good relationships start.
They are working together, going out on dates, visiting each other... We usually assume a lot of things about our relationships without actually talking about them. And I don't remember Heidi knowing about the MC fucking other people, or saying she was OK with that. Heidi didn't confront the MC in the bathroom, but talked about what she expected with their relationship when seeing that maybe it wasn't going where she wanted, ready to accept any outcome. Naked, exposing her feelings, declaring her love to him. A really nice scene in my opinion.
I believe Kathy was in love with the MC and Heidi, and dreaming about ending up with them both. She has a more 'whatever' attitude, but she was probably devastated about the whole situation, a somewhat sad ending for her story arc no matter what.
I used to think that choosing between Heidi and Kathy would be impossible, but at this point I'm Heidi all the way. Kathy should go to Vegas with Moe; she has more interesting stories to live for now, and to grow up a bit more before having meaningful relationships. Unfortunately I didn't see a good character growth in her story, maybe because she was only about having sex and using drugs.
About Heidi, she's a bit older than the other girls, and usually older people (well, young people too, but less often I'd think) assume they are already in an exclusive relationship once you start going out on dates and fucking somebody. Couples usually don't start being faithful or exclusive only after they decide to talk about the rules of their relationship. If I start to see someone and discover she's still fucking a bunch of other guys, even if we're not officially dating, I'll probably move away, that's not how good relationships start.
They are working together, going out on dates, visiting each other... We usually assume a lot of things about our relationships without actually talking about them. And I don't remember Heidi knowing about the MC fucking other people, or saying she was OK with that. Heidi didn't confront the MC in the bathroom, but talked about what she expected with their relationship when seeing that maybe it wasn't going where she wanted, ready to accept any outcome. Naked, exposing her feelings, declaring her love to him. A really nice scene in my opinion.
I believe Kathy was in love with the MC and Heidi, and dreaming about ending up with them both. She has a more 'whatever' attitude, but she was probably devastated about the whole situation, a somewhat sad ending for her story arc no matter what.
I used to think that choosing between Heidi and Kathy would be impossible, but at this point I'm Heidi all the way. Kathy should go to Vegas with Moe; she has more interesting stories to live for now, and to grow up a bit more before having meaningful relationships. Unfortunately I didn't see a good character growth in her story, maybe because she was only about having sex and using drugs.
- Nov 14, 2017
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"dear" auntie showed things to amanda and morelli and amanda left her daddy and mo almost shot mc in ch15 and we heard mc's and amanda's mother's tale 1st time fully.
- Sep 19, 2018
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So no, we do not. As a character, we only get what the MC says, which should be the truth, as an unreliable narrator in a game like this is just foolish.
Which means Amanda's betrayal is even more ridiculous.
Moe can do what he wants. He could shoot me and I'd still serve him toast and coffee right after.
- Apr 12, 2018
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I don't necessarily have a problem with the actual turning. I can see that maybe the aunt showed Amanda something relating to the finances, that it was marked for her mother's medical health and used it to start-up his business, painting it as if her father practically killed her mother. I can see how that might get her to distance herself from the MC.
Where I start to lose the thread is when she swings full tilt in the other direction and pretty much replaces one guardian for another. I think it's unrealistic that if she was angry she wouldn't be yelling and confronting her father, which would give him a chance to explain, instead she's methodical and cool and just moves out. Even ignoring that, she's learned she can't trust the one parental figure she had. Why doesn't this new found mistrust extend to the other adults in her life who are trying to control her? If she's that confused, and mixed up, shouldn't she be trying to get space from both of them? When you feel betrayed, you don't go, 'this person was untrustworthy, but this person must be telling me the truth', generally, you begin to see betrayal in other people too, and worry that they're two-faced as well.
I agree that Heidi doesn't know about the MC being with other girls, though there's reason to believe she might suspect. When she calls to ask him to the reunion, she asks if hes doing anything with Lily later after hearing that she called. And while I also agree that people don't necessarily talk about these things and take it for granted, the MC did already ask her about it.
Before the reunion, the MC wonders if going means that he's Heidi's boyfriend. Amanda comments that the relationship is getting serious if you tell her. Heidi tells you to call yourself her boyfriend and make up stories. At the reunion, her friends comment that she doesn't usually bring dates and that it probably meant more than she was letting on by inviting him. If you go to the bar, he asks her what she meant by bringing him, after the sex scenes, Heidi acts coy and basically tells him to figure it out for himself. Only then two chapters later to tell him she wants an exclusive relationship.
Honestly, I'd much rather have Heidi than a harem route, so I'm not against being asked to choose, or the Heidi being naked in the bathroom. But it seems strange to me that despite the relationship having been explicitly discussed before that only now does she demand exclusivity. I understand it's a plot device designed to force us down one route or another, I just don't like it when plot devices don't make sense narratively.
- Nov 14, 2017
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daddy's version sounds better than "dear" aunt's version (moe accused mc of stealing amanda's mother's money and told part of other side of story) which we might hear fully on next chapter.
All good points. But maybe that's just how she is. I usually prefer to think "what a crazy person" instead of "what an unrealistic person" when judging characters in stories, but there are of course exceptions. That being said, it can be very alluring having someone filthy rich wanting to bring you to their life. I'd also say that while some people start distrusting a whole category of people once they had a bad experience, others just jump from person to person trying to find the comfort they desperately need.
Women, I'm a right?
Heidi wasn't really into the first threesome, she was just going with the flow. When the same situation started to develop again, and noticing a pattern, the now less drunk/high Heidi decided to take some time off to rethink their relationship and decide what she really wanted. You go after her after a while and she tells you her conclusions. It makes sense to me.
- Apr 12, 2018
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Well, see, the reason for that is simply that I don't treat characters in stories as real people. Unlike real life (though who knows, maybe this is all a really high quality sims like simulation and free will is just an illusion
), I know that there's someone behind these characters informing their thoughts, like pulling a puppet's strings. The puppet only has a voice that the puppeteer gives it. And I know the puppeteer didn't set out to write Amanda as crazy. This was considered to be a completely logical, rational response for this character, to which I say 'that's unrealistic'. If I heard of someone in rl doing this kind of thing I'd say 'they're insane', because that would be the logical assumption. Even if she's considered to be tricked, her response is intended to be considered misinformed, but still rational.Beyond that, I'd simply say that it doesn't fit her established character to be pulled in by money or attention.
- Sep 26, 2017
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Our engine has nothing to do with Ren'Py, except the scripting language is similar to get new writers acclimated quickly.
- Jan 15, 2018
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I'm sure you guys were as frustrated as us that we for the first time broke our monthly deadline, and didn't get the final chapter of DFD out in time in March as we were expecting. As I said in my first post, this was mainly caused by us being able to play the game on release day, which is about 24-48 hours later than usual (Yes, DFD takes an insane amount of time to make). We actually only had time to play through one ending of the game, and after that I was forced to make a quick decision and give the information to you guys. The reason for that is obviously since we're working on US times and we didn't want people to pay for April for not getting DFD on time. It had to be a quick decision: "Do we release, or not?" That's exactly what we thought about. We played through that ending, had meetings for about two hours, and then I made the call that we can do better and decided to delay it for the first time. Believe me when I say that we were extremely upset and frustrated by that, but it was the right call.
At the time of that post, I just wanted to get the information out to you as soon as possible, so people didn't have to support us for April if they didn't want to. I've obviously read all of the comments left on that post, responded to most of them, and now I can in more detail go into what we're doing, and what I felt was wrong with the chapter. This is not an excuse, but please keep in mind we've been making this game for 18 months without even taking a break ever, so maybe being delayed a few weekns for the final chapter is okay? I don't know. We literally kill ourselves every single month, and I'm extremely proud over the team we have, to make possible a release every single month. That is just insane.
So here are some questions I've heard a few times, with answers:
- "You promised DH in March, and that was the reason DFD was delayed."
False. The team working on DH is not the same team working on DFD. We literally planned and worked on the first chapter of DH for at least two months before its release, because we did not want this to happen. We ultimately did not succeed in releasing DFD Ch 19 on time, but it has nothing to do with DH Ep1. People have questioned this, and the only thing I can tell you is the truth. If you chose to believe that or not is up to you.
- "Why did you announce the delay so late in March?"
Because that was the first time we played the game. And as I said, we actually only played through one ending in order to tell you people about the decision, and shorten the time for people to cancel their pledges if they wanted to. Again, we apologize for this. If we could have done it sooner, we would have. If we wanted to make as much money as possible, none of our games would be free. But we stand by what we've always said: All games will be free.
- " It better be a damn good chapter if you're making us wait another month."
Regardless of what we release, not everyone will be happy. That's literally impossible to do with a team basically consisting of four people. We're not making Mass Effect 4 with EA as an investor/publisher (heh). What I can say though, is that we are doing our best. And we believe this delay makes for a better ending.
- "I was looking forward to playing the last Chapter. Hope you can get it out before the end of the month."
The game will be released in April. We cannot currently give you a precise date, because we made the mistake once of giving you a date that we broke, and we won't do that again. It will be in April though.
- " I would like to know when DFD chapter 19 may be released."
April, but this ties into a lot of what we're doing once we decided to delay the final chapter of DFD. First of all, the main problem was with the various endings to the game. DFD has been running for 18 chapters, and it deserves a good ending. The endings were not as good as we hoped, and actually all of us agreed on that. More on this below.
- What are you doing about this? Here's a very short list of some of the things we do to improve the ending to DFD in April:
- All endings are now more complex with a deeper story
- The mystery of the toaster is now slightly easier to solve (because we want you to solve it, using logic)
- All scenes have longer progression
- All endings have been expanded
- All endings now feel more natural
- We are working on applying variant endings
- We are working on adding achievements
- All endings now have a lot more visuals
- We are trying to expand each single ending based on previous decisions
- More
- "If the game was ready and playable but you dint like the ending i hope it dosen't take 30 or 60 days to fix the ending. Cause honestly if it gets pushed to the end of the month it would feel as if you just postponed it just to get money[...]"
People who have already paid for April will get the chapter whenever in April it is released. Yes, the waiting period is tough for some, but believe me, so it is for us. How can we postpone and earn money on something when you pay for a month, and not for a day/release? We are working every single day on this, but we will do our best to make it the best ending possible for an April release, and release it as soon as possible. And again, we do apologize for the delay.
- "Oddly enough that reply doesn't seem to be on topic to what I said"
Hopefully this is.
Should any of you have any more questions I'd be happy to answer them in the comments. And I'm looking forward to answering your questions with Ricky on our new engine.
/Palmer
- Jan 15, 2018
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yeah i saw that screenshot i posted it in the double homework thread on this forum as its not really relevant to the daughter for dessert thread.Yup, that's pretty much what I said. You did miss a good screenshot of DH Ep2 though
- Apr 12, 2018
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I don't really care about the chapter being pushed back, these things happen, however...
Perhaps you're already doing this, though from the announcement it doesn't sound like it, but you should really be offering DFD 19 free of charge to anyone who signed up for March, regardless of whether they also sign up for April. They were promised it and they paid for it, and if you're not giving it to them you're asking them to pay more for another promise that it'll be out in April, regardless of whether you give a specific date. That's unfair and willfully disrespectful to anyone who has supported you.
If I preordered a game and paid the fee, and the release date was changed, I wouldn't be expected to pay another pre-order fee to get the game I already paid for.
Perhaps you're already doing this, though from the announcement it doesn't sound like it, but you should really be offering DFD 19 free of charge to anyone who signed up for March, regardless of whether they also sign up for April. They were promised it and they paid for it, and if you're not giving it to them you're asking them to pay more for another promise that it'll be out in April, regardless of whether you give a specific date. That's unfair and willfully disrespectful to anyone who has supported you.
If I preordered a game and paid the fee, and the release date was changed, I wouldn't be expected to pay another pre-order fee to get the game I already paid for.
- Dec 17, 2017
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There's one problem with your argument. Patrons aren't paying for they game; they're paying to support @Palmer and his team.
If I don't support them, and I start in April, I get access to all of the chapters, not just the one released in April.
"But he's already released the others for free!" you say.
Nope - not chapters 17 and 18.
And Palmer - you literally used literally incorrectly!