VN Ren'Py Completed Descent [v1.0] [Ryder77]

[yihman1]

It's a good concept, good art, and an interesting story, but it could be much better than it is with a few changes.

I played through it a few times making different choices, and I feel it has a tendency to give an "Illusion of choice". This can be very off-putting to the player. I'll give some examples of what I mean by this:

Choice 1: Would you like to goto the bar this weekend and meet my niece?
Accept, and Decline result in the SAME thing.

Choice 2: When shopping for outfits saying something along the lines of "This one is cute / I like this one" does not land you with even the option to pick that outfit. It results in the SAME outfit no matter your choice.

Choice 3: Guy starts to blackmail you: Knuckling under is the only option. Choosing to stand your ground results in game over. So not really a choice.

Choice 4: You go out to the bar: No matter what you choose to drink you get blackout drunk. There should be a sober option.

There are other instances, but you get what I mean with these 4.

In spite of many choices, it has a static novel feel.

If this game were a penis it would be a pencil dick. It's much more focus on the length and not the girth. You NEED that girth to satisfy most of the players. It would be as if in Good Girl Gone Bad no matter what choice you make you wind up on the bad route. That "Pure route" in spite of usually being the more "boring" of the two routes is a key route for character development, and being bad doesn't feel like "being bad" if it's the only option.

 

[Ryder77]

Thanks for the long comment.

1. You may want to rewrite some of the earlier chapters anyways later on, unless you already have the entire story written down in detail (rather than just a vague plan) and now you're just doing the renders.

The whole thing is done, renders and all. I'm just doing some fine tuning and tweaking it a bit based on comments here. If there's something I can do to improve the game (without having to do too much additional work), I'll do it. The biggest change so far is to the final scene in chapter one, but there have been a couple of other minor changes as well.

2. You know you *can* get help with such things? ... What I'm saying is, you could try to find a script doctor, to give your writing a bit of pizzazz. Just ask around. I know DarthSeduction always wants to improve those female protag games, just prevent him from adding any friggin child sexual abuse backstories to the characters.

That's probably good advice, but my motivation for doing this project in the first place was to see if I could do it. Up until chapter six or seven, I wasn't sure if I would, or could, finish it.

And if you don't want to let someone else touch your baby, at least consider how you write characters. Everyone needs a motivation, a flaw, some kind of arc, where they end up changed. Most of all the protagonist...

I agree with all this, but, IMO, I don't think I've failed to do so. At least, not as much as you suggest.

Without going into too much detail (which may get spoilery), there's a distinction between the MC and the other characters. IMO, all of the MC's have their own agenda and own goals, some more complex than others. Of course, we don't see those directly, as the game it told entirely from the MC's perspective.

The MC is a different issue and this is something I struggled with. The more specific I wrote her motivations etc, the less scope their was for player control. To some extent, she has to be a bit of a blank slate, to allow the players the scope to make decisitions. Hence, for example, her primary goal is to succeed in the internship. However, within the scope of that general motivation, the player can decide just how much she wants to succeed and what's she's willing to do to succeed. She has other motivations as well, which must be balanced as she (ie. the player) chooses how to proceed.

Maybe her sexy dream is actually whore herself to the top, or it's using whatever power she can gain to "corrupt" others (that is Eves ostensible fetish, for example) or she's a masochist and only gets off if she's bullied and blackmailed into lewd things, and subconsciously or semiconsciously engineers such things to happen (which is how a lot of these games actually can be made to work easily) or maybe she's an exhibitionist and starts some kind of game teasing, lets say, the russian tech guy.

Maybe she's some or all of those things. Maybe, as the player, you can approach it with that sort of framework in mind. Remember, the more I dictate her personality, the less the player does.

And finally, make the men somewhat believable too.

I agree with the assertion that the men should be believable, but disagree with the suggestion that they're not.

Again, you've seen maybe a quarter of the story. Maybe not all is as it seems?

Don't just make it Katies Corruption because, well, that game was not good.

I liked KC, but this game isn't that.

I want to see actual people-characters who get upset and overconfident and devastated and horny, who mess up and succeed. Some emotional investment, you know. A piece of driftwood - which is what Chrissy is right now - doesn't evoke that.

Fair enough. If, at the end of the day, it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you. As I said, I did my best and any flaws in the project (and I accept there are many) are entirely on me.

 

[Ryder77]

It's a good concept, good art, and an interesting story, but it could be much better than it is with a few changes.

Thank you.

I played through it a few times making different choices, and I feel it has a tendency to give an "Illusion of choice". This can be very off-putting to the player. I'll give some examples of what I mean by this:

Choice 1: Would you like to goto the bar this weekend and meet my niece?
Accept, and Decline result in the SAME thing.

That's wrong, although I understand why you might think that.

There are many interactions where your response will affect the other character's opinion of you. In the example you gave, Dianne will like you better if you "Accept" and less if your "Refuse". There are lots of these interactions with other characters. Over time, these scores will affect how other characters react to you and may trigger some opportunities, or obstacles, in the game.

Choice 2: When shopping for outfits saying something along the lines of "This one is cute / I like this one" does not land you with even the option to pick that outfit. It results in the SAME outfit no matter your choice.

Yeah. I thought about letting players chose the outfit, but the amount of additional renders that would have required for the balance of the story was mind boggling. There's a scene in chapter four where I gave that choice and it literally doubled the number of renders and took an extra two weeks to do. If I'd done that with her day to day outfit, I'd still be working on chapter five.

Choice 3: Guy starts to blackmail you: Knuckling under is the only option. Choosing to stand your ground results in game over. So not really a choice.

I assume you mean the end of chapter one?

There is another choice there now.

I would also argue (as I did) that, from the MC's perspective, refusing and ending up at another firm is actually a good result. However, I do take that point and made a change.

Choice 4: You go out to the bar: No matter what you choose to drink you get blackout drunk. There should be a sober option.

Sorry, you're stuck with that one. Some things just have to happen.

In spite of many choices, it has a static novel feel.

I can see that. In the introduction at the beginning of the prolog, I describe it as a cross between a game and visual novel.

If this game were a penis it would be a pencil dick. It's much more focus on the length and not the girth. You NEED that girth to satisfy most of the players. It would be as if in Good Girl Gone Bad no matter what choice you make you wind up on the bad route. That "Pure route" in spite of usually being the more "boring" of the two routes is a key route for character development, and being bad doesn't feel like "being bad" if it's the only option.

Heh. Nice analogy. Well, hopefully, as the story continues onward, its girth will expand in a manner which will satisfy the players.

As for GGGB, I don't know how Eva Kiss manages all those storylines.

 

[fortuna95]

Such a fast updates, wow!
Walkthrough would be good here!

 

[yihman1]

@Ryder77

I don't think you NEED dozens of main routes to fill in the girth. If you want to make this game popular, instead of moving forward right now you should go back, and expand it's width right now before going too deep. Here are some ways I would suggest expanding the story:

1) The interactions with the boyfriend are too limited and come off as just whining about your day or ignoring him altogether. It's too much on the rocks... You are what a few weeks in now, and can't even give the boyfriend a peck on the cheek yet? There doesn't feel like any romance there, and that's not good for the NTR element. If his relationship to the protagonist was changed to "brother" and not "boyfriend" it would not even give off an incest vibe yet. Wouldn't be tagged for incest. Here are some things you can add some spark to that particular relationship:

-The option for sex with him, or to say "No I'm saving myself for marriage" That virgin tag adds massive appeal. If you say she is a virgin in spite of the 2 know boyfriends it would add appeal to her.
-Just have them go out for ice cream, or a walk in the park or SOMETHING to establish there is more of a relationship there. You don't need many renders or much dialogue for this.
-Maybe shower together or something. They go out to eat just the one time, and really don't do anything else together.
-Maybe he sends her some flowers at work

2) Douche bag stalker ex isn't enough of a douche bag. Why is it the IT guy that is the blackmailer and not this guy? "You want the documents, get on your knees bitch!" He should be just giving those documents for nothing.

3) IT guys blackmail scene... granted you went back & changed it to the option for just a handjob. Fair enough, but you went back again and redid it just one more time... This time during the reluctant handjob she has the option to painfully dig her nails in, punch him in the balls, and then say "Don't you dare try to blackmail me again!" It would still land with that same pic on her PC before she does that, and not change the story much, but she, as a character would maintain her moral integrity which I can not stress enough, is an important factor for many players.

4) That threesome at the end of 0.4 should be expanded upon. Currently it's avoid it, FFF, or FFF Forced. I mean the guy is RIGHT THERE... It could also have MFF and MFF forced options.

5) I know Eve is a core part of the story. Maybe you have to meet her because she is a main character, and the story just won't make sense if you hadn't met her. Declining to meet her on Saturday could simply reschedule your meeting with her to Sunday! This opens a new character! The boyfriends sister! A whole new saturday added! That can be another key character too! As for the sunday meetup could be during the day, not at the bar. Having to get drunk ruins it a bit. It takes away that free will feeling. It's a lot of additional writing but would be worth it.

 

[Ryder77]

@Ryder77

I don't think you NEED dozens of main routes to fill in the girth. If you want to make this game popular, instead of moving forward right now you should go back, and expand it's width right now before going too deep. Here are some ways I would suggest expanding the story:

Those are all good suggestions and many of them would have worked fine with, and even improved, the game. However, at this point, I'm just not willing to go back and redo the game. Each of those changes, even the relatively minor ones, would reverberate through the story and necessitate many consequential changes. If I had just written what was posted now, with the balance of the story in development, I would probably use a number of those ideas. However, as it is, I'm not prepared to start again. I so appreciate the ideas and suggestions, though.

One thing. Many of your comments are kind of spoilery for the story to date. I'd appreciate it if you could maybe use a "spoiler" tag for those sorts of comments.

 

[IhaveNoPornAndIMustFap]

Thanks for the long comment.

The whole thing is done, renders and all. I'm just doing some fine tuning and tweaking it a bit based on comments here. If there's something I can do to improve the game (without having to do too much additional work), I'll do it. The biggest change so far is to the final scene in chapter one, but there have been a couple of other minor changes as well.

That's probably good advice, but my motivation for doing this project in the first place was to see if I could do it. Up until chapter six or seven, I wasn't sure if I would, or could, finish it.

I agree with all this, but, IMO, I don't think I've failed to do so. At least, not as much as you suggest.

Without going into too much detail (which may get spoilery), there's a distinction between the MC and the other characters. IMO, all of the MC's have their own agenda and own goals, some more complex than others. Of course, we don't see those directly, as the game it told entirely from the MC's perspective.

The MC is a different issue and this is something I struggled with. The more specific I wrote her motivations etc, the less scope their was for player control. To some extent, she has to be a bit of a blank slate, to allow the players the scope to make decisitions. Hence, for example, her primary goal is to succeed in the internship. However, within the scope of that general motivation, the player can decide just how much she wants to succeed and what's she's willing to do to succeed. She has other motivations as well, which must be balanced as she (ie. the player) chooses how to proceed.

Maybe she's some or all of those things. Maybe, as the player, you can approach it with that sort of framework in mind. Remember, the more I dictate her personality, the less the player does.

I agree with the assertion that the men should be believable, but disagree with the suggestion that they're not.

Again, you've seen maybe a quarter of the story. Maybe not all is as it seems?

I liked KC, but this game isn't that.

Fair enough. If, at the end of the day, it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you. As I said, I did my best and any flaws in the project (and I accept there are many) are entirely on me.

I hear you. If you got the game mostly done already and this is your first attempt to see if you could do it, I mean, don't let me bother you. It's genuinely solid for a first attempt, given that a lot of first attempts quickly become out of control behemoths that will forever remain unfinished. Yours is a small, cheap concept, and there's nothing wrong with that, especially on a first try. And while the writing isn't stellar in my humble opinion, if you actually complete it in a meaningful fashion, you've achieved something that, I believe, the majority porn game devs fail at. This is what extra ranks in "Project Management" get you, I suppose. For the "Writing", you can get external help much more easily.

I tend to be too negative in my criticism because I believe that without criticism, things do not improve as fast. Also, it's possible I'm just an asshole. Basically, just ignore me, I'm a just a dick.

 

[Ryder77]

I hear you. If you got the game mostly done already and this is your first attempt to see if you could do it, I mean, don't let me bother you.

It's not a bother. I'm happy to discuss the game.

It's genuinely solid for a first attempt, given that a lot of first attempts quickly become out of control behemoths that will forever remain unfinished. Yours is a small, cheap concept, and there's nothing wrong with that, especially on a first try.

When I publish the game (joke) and am looking for ad copy, I would definitely want to have "solid for a first attempt" and "a small, cheap concept" displayed prominently on the poster! The would go right under the quote from the review, to the effect that the game "defiled common sense".

And while the writing isn't stellar in my humble opinion, if you actually complete it in a meaningful fashion, you've achieved something that, I believe, the majority porn game devs fail at. This is what extra ranks in "Project Management" get you, I suppose. For the "Writing", you can get external help much more easily.

It's not the best game in the world, but it will be finished.

I tend to be too negative in my criticism because I believe that without criticism, things do not improve as fast. Also, it's possible I'm just an asshole. Basically, just ignore me, I'm a just a dick.

No problem at all. I have no problem with criticism and I took what you said as constructive, even if I didn't always agree.

 

[Ragnar]

I like the atmosphere, I have a weakness for office girls plus corruption and blackmail aren't bad either.
Some ideas for the future, more provocative costumes, use of sex toys in the office like buttplugs, body modifications i.e tatoos and surgery without going to the extreme.

 

[Ryder77]

I like the atmosphere, I have a weakness for office girls plus corruption and blackmail aren't bad either.
Some ideas for the future, more provocative costumes, use of sex toys in the office like buttplugs, body modifications i.e tatoos and surgery without going to the extreme.

Thanks. Glad you're enjoying it. And some, or all of that, may, or may not, occur in the balance of the story.

 

[Zoldier248]

android version please

 

[Eye-switcher]

Really like the game, but Eve is truly horrible and that storyline is no fun at all. One chapter ok, but a chance to get out of it then would be nice.

 

[aifgamer]

This is very, very good work so far. The MC is excellently written, and the NPCs all have just enough mystery to their motives to be interesting. Loved it.

Keep up the great work author.

 

[laflare82]

What I don't get when ever you Devs make a Female Protagonist a smart one at that but she never have common since everyone around are normally devils trying to corrupt or black mail her this idea has been rinse and repeat so often why continue with same

 

[jkr37]

Ported it to android if anyone else wants to play on their phone. There's one image that wasn't called properly so you'll need to ignore the error message that pops up at one point - sorry didn't test properly before building the app! Fun game, early days yet but enjoyed it and really appreciate the rapid updates.

You must be registered to see the links

 

[TiffanyMonroe]

This game has the potential to be one of the best.

 

[Ryder77]

This is very, very good work so far. The MC is excellently written, and the NPCs all have just enough mystery to their motives to be interesting. Loved it.

Keep up the great work author.

Thank you.

 

[Ryder77]

This game has the potential to be one of the best.

Thanks.

 

[Ryder77]

Ported it to android if anyone else wants to play on their phone. There's one image that wasn't called properly so you'll need to ignore the error message that pops up at one point - sorry didn't test properly before building the app! Fun game, early days yet but enjoyed it and really appreciate the rapid updates.

You must be registered to see the links

Thanks for doing that, as I don't know how. Is there something I can do to help out with the error message? I don't think anyone's had that problem with the PC version.

 

[Ryder77]

What I don't get when ever you Devs make a Female Protagonist a smart one at that but she never have common since everyone around are normally devils trying to corrupt or black mail her this idea has been rinse and repeat so often why continue with same

I agree that this game isn't exactly breaking new ground. However, I like to think it's been written a little differently than most of the other games using this theme.