- Thread starter MoolahMilk
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A while back I said that at this rate, ICSTOR will finish Milfy City before DA updates again. I was half joking.
- Sep 16, 2020
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Thanks for sharing this.
I have been following this thread closely after finishing the last version a few weeks ago, without posting anything directly. While I don't care at all about the endless delays since I don't support the dev, I can already understand why so many people are pissed off.
I feel like there's indeed something fishy with the dev. It's not the delays per se but the lack of communication on top of the delays.
I have not been following the development of the game before. I played it at some point in time when there was still a gallery mod, forgot about it and played through the last version very recently. And oh boy I loved every bit of the game, easily in my top 5 games rn. I'm saying that because I started watching this thread closely around the time someone shared the dev long monologue about his plans for the game / how he was burned out etc and I genuinely felt for him and gave him the benefit of the doubt. While I still do, and really want to believe that 0.9 and 1.0 will both have quantitative and qualitative content; I can't help but notice his lack of professionalism by being super vague about his releases dates and not respecting it.
By the time I'm writing this I noticed that he posted today on patreon about new dates (don't have access to the post) I guess that's a positive note. I'd just wish he'd do weekly dev updates like many others dev do, because as of recently I totally understand the general sentiment that he is milking patrons or whatever, especially when he didn't suspend payments for such a long time (from what I gathered).
Once again, no idea how it was with him before this. Don't think all the hate is deserved but maybe my input would have been different if I was following the game sooner no idea. That being said, as of right now, I don't feel like supporting him. Would gladly do if there was minimal transparency with his community.
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It's not a new thing among these devs. The meta of western erotic game developers has always been
1. Work hard during the first updates to attract patreon supporters
2. Once achieved over 1k supporters, start drip feeding them with short updates every 6 months or longer. Bonus points if the story never progresses and the main girls don't get action, only random whores
3. Use the covid excuse, family excuse, work/studies while never stopping the patreon because it's fucking free money
4. Patreons are not entitled to anything because they are "donations", as if any of them would simp for an anonymous grown up man blogposting once a month about how busy he is IRL
Once the dev starts procrastinating and having 1 update after 5-6 months, that's a huge red flag. The dev got a taste of the free money and he will keep milking this until everyone drops it.
Pretty unfair comparison to do sandbox vs non sandbox. I enjoy both games but understand that more work goes into sandbox games.
Also unfair to compare the work ethic and consistency of the two devs tbh.
Can't really compare work ethic at all when you aren't watching them work. As for consistency, both have put out great content when updating their games. The only difference between the two is the frequency of updates which has only changed in the last year in regards to Moolah with him having been late with a couple of his most recent updates but Cardibis' updates have also become less frequent since the OiaLT days. It has been 5 months since Moolah's last update you guys are acting like it's been a year.
- Nov 27, 2021
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I don't think people are complaining cuz it takes too long, cuz then they'd complain about Eternum, Pale Carnations, and all the other big guns.
I think people are upset that they give deadlines, but never sticks to those deadlines.
IMO they should just not give deadlines, and should just do weekly progress bars to show development progression.
So after ghosting everyone, he comes back with a rant. Says "Feb 5th, no Feb 6th... no wait Feb 16th is the release date. 0.9 is already finished, he's working on 1.0 that he plans to release at the end of the month."
What is the point of pulling dates out of his ass if he's just making shit up? 5 Months isn't the end of the world for a quality update, but on discord he just keeps ranting about haters making him change the way he wants to create the game and how they're making him compromise.
It's as easy as stop making deadline promises he can't keep and communicating with progress every few weeks. He puts himself into these stressful situations and blames the fanbase.
What is the point of pulling dates out of his ass if he's just making shit up? 5 Months isn't the end of the world for a quality update, but on discord he just keeps ranting about haters making him change the way he wants to create the game and how they're making him compromise.
It's as easy as stop making deadline promises he can't keep and communicating with progress every few weeks. He puts himself into these stressful situations and blames the fanbase.
- Nov 27, 2021
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Yep, I don't see why they give themselves public deadlines and put themselves in these situations. If they want deadlines to have a target of completion, just keep it to themselves and show a progress bar to others.
As for the "making him change the way he wants to create the game," the only one I've seen is about the puzzles/minigames (if there's any about making it a VN instead of sandbox, that's just subjective/personal preference, I don't think that needs to be changed, though it would be nice to have a VN option). Personally, I think they should add an option to turn off minigames, though that would just give this dev more work, which they clearly can't handle. Its a shame modders haven't been able to make a walkthrough mod with puzzle helper yet. I personally don't mind the puzzles, I just think making them so complicated to the point where you can spend either actual hours to figure them out, or you need an external walkthrough, is kinda dumb. At the very least if you wanna have a complex puzzle/minigame system, you should have:
1) Toggle to turn the system on/off
2) A hint system
3) A pity/difficulty system to make it not drag out for infinite time
Of course none of these are necessary, and would add more dev time, but if the dev insists on keeping puzzles its something they should consider.
Nothing wrong with not wanting to compromise your product, but then don't complain when others don't like it. If you are making it for others and are expecting them to pay, then you either gotta stick to your product and be satisfied with the people who believe in your vision to pay, or change your product to cater to a larger audience if you aren't satisfied with that.
- Jun 6, 2020
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- Sep 16, 2020
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Yep, no release still. No announcement on discord either on why he missed the date again. No matter if he has a legitimate reason or not, his lack of transparency is pitiful, unrespectful (to his supporters) and unprofessional.
I do agree with some of his statements about the nature of his game and how hard it can be to update sandboxes vs regular VNs. I also contend that he should take all the time he really needs to release whatever he deems up to his standard or whatever. Just be TRANSPARENT about it.
As of now he's just passing for a clown with his successive unfullfilled dates/deadlines.
Anyways that's the second and last time I'm commenting on this matter. Really hope the update will be worth the wait, no matter the release date
I do agree with some of his statements about the nature of his game and how hard it can be to update sandboxes vs regular VNs. I also contend that he should take all the time he really needs to release whatever he deems up to his standard or whatever. Just be TRANSPARENT about it.
As of now he's just passing for a clown with his successive unfullfilled dates/deadlines.
Anyways that's the second and last time I'm commenting on this matter. Really hope the update will be worth the wait, no matter the release date
Issue with weekly progress bars is they would need to know roughly how much content will be in the update and where the update will end. Clearly that is a bit on an issue for Moolah (and other sandbox game devs). Moolah has stated themselves that they underestimated the work that needs to be done on a sandbox game. An approach similar to DPC might be the right way for sandbox games progress to be tracked. Just give numbers and estimates of scenes remaining when close to the end of the cycle. DPC doesn't give out a release date until the update is about to go into testing/has been testing for a couple of days. That's why he's considered reliable. Moolah gives deadlines (perhaps as motivation?) and misses them seemingly due to underestimating what work is remaining.
The update will be out when it is ready. Progress bars don't really mean much; they give us an idea of what/how much work has gone into an update and maybe help devs keep track of the work they've done. Deadlines should be set when it is certain that it will be released on time. Moolah needs to work on his deadlines maybe even stay away from setting them for a while and just throw out a couple of updates without setting dates until he gets back into the routine.
they need to add a [Dairy] tag, so people can see which ones are just milking subscriptions and know not to sub or expect much. but im not sure that applies here, the dev is slow... but its quality work