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Monsieur X

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May 26, 2018
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There is a difference between posts like "I would like so and so characters to have bigger boobs" and "my choices in game have an influence on the story, it's bad design".
Edit : I'm out of this conversation.
 

Finsit

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Jun 2, 2017
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There is difference between posts like "I would like so and so characters to have bigger boobs" and "my choice in game have an influence on the story, it's bad design".
I agree that on the form it's different.
But in substance, the nature is the same. It's not because someone say something in a peremptory fashion that it's not an opinion.

And so I take both the same way, those type of posts are signs that their authors are interested in my creation.

And for criticism I'll add that I only rarely take criticism into account. Because I consider that for a criticism to be valid it needs to be sound enough. And I judge that a quickly made criticism need to really be a brilliant piece of thinking to beat a slowly matured idea.
But when people goes to great extend to prove their point then that make their criticism valid.
 

Shardoom

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May 4, 2017
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I'll still play, no doubt. Probably even drop some cash along the way. It's a good game. I just find forced replays because of branching to be irritating. Sorry. :(
 

MausMaus

Active Member
Aug 2, 2018
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Are you meaning that sucking ass is something negative ? :rolleyes:

I'm already on the verge of a nervous breakdown trying to keep the inconsistencies to a minimum and you want us to add a time traveling serum ? Are you insane ! Do you realize the implication of such powers ?

So yeah, would not really work story wise.

Indeed there is nothing new on her pink path yet.

It's true that compared to her new route the pink one is pretty light-ish.

And as I mentioned earlier we don't aim to make all the route either the same length nor make them as important story wise.
As for Lola I don't think the routes will merge. It's pretty unlikely. Both at pretty much bound any new event including Howard but in different ways.

Well it's not like we want to cheat you out of potential content.

Now it's new, yes, but in the future, injecting a girl will potentially mean more consequences. You realize you are deliberately injecting women with potent drug right ? At some point you need to take responsibility for your acts.

Also, we are "planning"(loosely using the term here) to add new game mechanics to make better use of the serums in a more utilitarian way or simply put, boost stats. I mean such powerful drug would be cheating in real life, not much reason not to make them shortcuts in the game.
Doesnt have to be time travelling,maybe could be something to wipe there memory.
 

Finsit

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Jun 2, 2017
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I'll still play, no doubt. Probably even drop some cash along the way. It's a good game. I just find forced replays because of branching to be irritating. Sorry. :(
Well if the game is "irritating" to play maybe that mean that the branching is not the issue.

But yeah, "there shall be branching" Jan said.
We still aim to make each branch, let's say ... fulfilling.
Doesnt have to be time travelling,maybe could be something to wipe there memory.
Haha knew it, and already .
 
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Shardoom

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No no... The forced replays are the irritating part.
It's the reason why DC is reworking SS and ditching the branching stuff. He's had so many complaints about it. People (most people) want to be able to see everything in one go. Fannying about with restarts and playing the same bits over and over to see a little new bit on another route isn't fun. (IMO)
 

Finsit

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No no... The forced replays are the irritating part.
Okay.

Then if each girl have 3 branches each from the beginning.

What would fundamentally be the differences between playing the game 3 time with each branches or play the game once but reset 2 time each girls ?
 

Shardoom

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Each girl is gonna have 3 branches?? I thought it was just this one with Lola?

Oh dear, this doesn't sound good.
 

Finsit

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Jun 2, 2017
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Each girl is gonna have 3 branches?? I thought it was just this one with Lola?

Oh dear, this doesn't sound good.
It's just a setup for a thought experiment.

I thought you meant adding a serum to revert changes to try a new branch. That kind of mechanic would certainly mean having more than one junction to try right ?
 

Shardoom

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It's just a setup for a thought experiment.

I thought you meant adding a serum to revert changes to try a new branch. That kind of mechanic would certainly mean having more than one junction to try right ?
Backtracking a little to try a new branch for a character using a serum, and playing through the game again entirely are two entirely different prospects. I certainly know which I (and if DarkCookie is to be believed, most people) prefer...

That being said, I get the feeling the devs of this game really want this and I'm not even a patron at this point so, I've given my opinion. I'll leave it at that.
 

Finsit

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Backtracking a littee to try a new branch for a character using a serum, and playing through the game again entirely are two entirely different prospects. I certainly know which I (and if DarkCookie is to be believed, most people) prefer...

That being said, I get the feeling the devs of this game really want this and I'm not even a patron at this point so, I've given my opinion. I'll leave it at that.
Are you in you last sentence talking about DD because in that case I'm not gonna lie, it's weird that you talked about me as if you were not talking to me.

DarkCookie do their things, we do ours. I don't think comparing two creators with an amount of patrons 2 orders of magnitude different is relevant.

Anyway.
Many people consider eroge as delivery programs for displaying contextualized porn.

Then story and gameplay is if not irrelevant, not very relevant. Thus I guess it could be treated to an extend as an hindrance.
Fair, no issue here.

But then, if a game has a streamlined gameplay but offer let's say two totally different routes with content 100% exclusive to each branches. Then how can that game be considered any differently than 2 separate games ?

You say that you don't like replay a game, fine. But if the second playthrough offer an entirely different content than the first ?
If you still dislike replaying it then that mean you dislikes replaying the parts in common : the gameplay linking the content together.

So what is the different between a game with a length of 2 and a game with 2 branches of length of 1 ?
 

Shardoom

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I didn't intend to sound rude. I was talking to you yes but my comment about them 'wanting' this was speaking about Jan the spider. Wasn't very clear, sorry about that.

See using SS as a reference is good though since he has a much bigger audience to gauge feedback from, thus an inherently greater ability to understand what 'Joe Public' wants.

I've said my piece though. This conversation isn't going to lead to either of us changing our minds, nor a change in the dev process so let's just leave it.
 

Finsit

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Jun 2, 2017
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I didn't intend to sound rude. I was talking to you yes but my comment about them 'wanting' this was speaking about Jan the spider. Wasn't very clear, sorry about that.

See using SS as a reference is good though since he has a much bigger audience, thus an inherently greater ability to understand what 'Joe Public' wants.

I've said my piece though. This conversation isn't going to lead to either of us changing our minds, nor a change in the dev process so let's just leave it.
I'm not talking you sway your opinion.
I'm trying to understand you and to be understood correctly.


You say SS audience is bigger and thus more representative. Well we don't quite share the same genres if any.
Also with a funding that allow you to professionnalise on it you don't have the same possibilities as with one around 90 times inferior.
And the patrons don't have the same expectations either.

If you now just give me an argument of authority with what DC is doing, well then, indeed it's no use continuing.


But since you started with what seemed to be your preferences then I tried to present you a hypothetical setup to at the same time try to better understand how replaying a game displease you and also make you understand better what we are trying to achieve.
 

the66

beware, the germans are cumming
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per request, here is my unofficial android port of Deviant Discoveries v0.35.
have fun and please report problems (you can reach me ).
 
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Finsit

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@the66 : I hope you didn't ported the 0.35.0 and went directly for the 0.35.1. Well I don't know if you can load saves from an older version but if you can then, you better have ported the .1.
 
Jun 10, 2017
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Just played the latest update. Figured I'd give my two cents on it and some of the topics of discussion.

First, the update itself:
Great. Loved all of the content, loved the interactions between Kara and Lola, and am glad to see some experimentation with mechanics (e.g. branching paths). My only complaint? I just wish there had been more in this update! Keep up the good work, guys.

Now, onto the issue of branching story mechanics. The issues with a branching storyline in Ren'py center around three issues:
1. Saves and replays
2. Making the choices consequential short-term and long-term
3. Content locking

The first problem is straight forward: the Ren'py save system does allow you to easily access crucial flashpoints. For example, I saved before I chose to gave Lola one of the serums. This makes accessing those flashpoints during replaying the game much easier, and thus makes it easier to replay a game and get different scenes and endings. The problem is that the more branching paths makes it much harder to organize and track saves. Right now, I have the top row of the save slots for the Green serum path, and the bottom row for the Pink serum path. But what happens when more branching occurs? Things start to get messy.

The second issues is that a choice should serve some purpose beyond giving access to certain scenes (unless it's the player choosing to opt out of scenes featuring content or a fetish the player dislikes). I'm not sure how the different paths will affect the player's growing harem yet, but keep that in mind when you continue story development. Make these decisions count, or, if that's not the goal, make it possible to backtrack in some way shape or form (I'm not advocating for time travel, but the reversion serum some have suggested is a good idea).

Thirdly, these branching choices tend to lock the player out of content, when the player would prefer to access as much content as humanly possible. This is a porn game, not Bioshock. Replays are harder to justify, I'm afraid. A good example of how to do content locking badly is Dreams of Desire, where a decision in Day 3, 4, or 5 (I can't remember which) suddenly locked players into a restricted set of endings when most players considered the decision to be a minor one while playing, and wanted to access the locked endings. Thus far, we only have two branching paths, and they are a later decision (I advise training Chrystal, Kara, Harley, and Yuki before doing anything with Lola), so fortunately we're still in a good place.

What's the solution? I'm not sure, but the reversion serum is a good idea. Another idea someone mentioned was having the player choice center around which serum to administer first (i.e. choose the pink serum first and use the green one later, or choose the green serum first and use the pink serum later). I'm just throwing out food for thought.

Another thing I wanted to throw out is storyline: so far, we know the Professor has used the serum on himself and the girls. His intention was to test the effects of the serum, and it's been smooth sailing with little repercussions. The devs have been hinting at consequences or danger, and I hope to see a bit more of an overarching plot as development continues. There's a lot of different avenues to take this (an attractive rival professor, a stuck up policewoman, or Lola's mother, as possible future antagonists/targets), and I hope you guys work your magic with the same skill and success as you have up until this point.

That's enough out of me. Thank you for reading, and keep up the good work, devs!
 

Finsit

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Update the tittle to 35.
And the person updating the title could also edit the version number to display the full one.

We release a hotfix for the issue mentioned earlier so there is an ambiguity now.
 

Finsit

Harder Better Faster Cheater
Game Developer
Jun 2, 2017
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Just played the latest update. Figured I'd give my two cents on it and some of the topics of discussion.

--snip--

Another thing I wanted to throw out is storyline: so far, we know the Professor has used the serum on himself and the girls. His intention was to test the effects of the serum, and it's been smooth sailing with little repercussions. The devs have been hinting at consequences or danger, and I hope to see a bit more of an overarching plot as development continues. There's a lot of different avenues to take this (an attractive rival professor, a stuck up policewoman, or Lola's mother, as possible future antagonists/targets), and I hope you guys work your magic with the same skill and success as you have up until this point.

That's enough out of me. Thank you for reading, and keep up the good work, devs!
Thanks.

Be aware that the story is being written. It may not show because it's not quite what pleases the crowd right now, but it's a important yet currently unspoken part of the game.

And it's one of the aspect I like working on the most. The background story of the game is pretty much figured out at that point and for those who like that sort of thing I'll write it down on the blog when it's done, we will only include the bare minimum into the game.


About branching, don't worry, we don't take that lightly and your thought about the subject are already well internalize.

But about time travel, it may seem absurd but I assure you as bad as it would be it would still be better than a reversing serum. I said that because for example how would you manage the fact that Kara is taking a liking for Lola in the green serum path when she don't even knows about her in the pink one. See ? That either constricts the writing to reversible events only or creates a lot of issues.
Anyway while there is plan to add temporary morphing, it will be as such.

When there will be branching it will be by design and planned for.


I may point to you that there is already one story-relevant branch. What you do with Greg. Doesn't seem like much right ?
 
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