VN Ren'Py Abandoned Ecchi Sensei [Day 22-23 Final] [BlueCat]

[Jay82]

'With the obligatory caveat that I'm only a Patron/member of the Discord server and have no affiliation with the project or team, I can confirm that work on elements of the game is occurring on a daily basis, however due to the illness of one of the most senior team members, work some of the most important foundational elements of the merge is delayed.'

So basically, you can word it as 'delayed' and admit that it can't be completed, but you think because blue didn't say the words 'on hold' because he'd lose revenue, that you can argue with anyone who can see the obvious fact that it is on hold. It was delayed, which was ongoing, and is still ongoing

No. You are wrong. If you read the message, it says "some of the most important foundational elements of the merge is delayed". If some is delayed than some other elements are being worked on. Development has not stopped. Crucial for the merge or not is irrelevant, because some other work for the project is being done. You interpret it wrong and try to sell your wrong interpretation of Blues statement as "obvious fact".

And here's a spoiler alert, nobody cares about the textbook definition of on hold. They're entitled to say the obvious. Which it is

Of course everybody can say anything they want, but if anybodies opinion, or point of view is in direct contradiction to the rules which are written down, it could be argued that those individuals do not care, maybe don't understand, or can't accept the definitions of said rules, policy, etc. Obvious to them or not doesn't make an opinion a fact.
Any rule, policy, regulation, law follows its own textbook definition, otherwise it would only be a suggestion. That is logical. The definition for the tag On Hold is written down. You can argue the definition in the rules thread, but as it stands right now the game does not fall under the definition of being On Hold.

And - Don't say "nobody cares", you speak only for yourself.

And then this:
'Release is currently on hold due to staff illness, this dev team member is irreplaceable, so until they're back to 100% we're gonna stay frozen on everything. I will be sure to let you all know whatever is going on, until then its just a bit of a fuzzy timeline.'

This was from Skummy back in February 4 months ago, the game was on hold, it remains on hold. Otherwise, where the feck is it?

Release of a game update is not mandatory for the developing process to proceed. Never was, never will be. A release is only mandatory to finish a project. Whatever that might be. Book, Movie, Song, or in this case a game. Promises made, Promises broken (for whatever reason) and still has no influence receive the on hold tag. Skummy said on hold, but he is not the dev.

You can manipulate the wording to 'delayed' in later posts so it doesn't gat tagged, but it couldn't be clearer what other perfectly, impeccably, flawlessly defined term the game falls under 'on hold'

And I don't really care if you want to delude yourselves by hiding behind definitions. But when you tell those lies as if they are the truth to other people and make out they are the ones lying and simply deciding to troll, it's no good. A definition should not drain someone of logic

If he wants to lie to his patrons, so be it. That doesn't impact me anymore

There is no hiding behind definitions. There is understanding of the definitions, which I and others communicate to users who don't know them. The delusion is on you as you don't want to accept it. And the longer you keep on telling that the game is on hold when it is not, you are the liar and you are the troll. I don't tell lies or the truth, I am telling you the game is not on hold as it doesn't fall in the category - Dev said it's on hold - which is the basis for this tag.

 

[Skummy Ecchi]

I'll bite, I did say it was on hold, and that was Dev specific information, but I also said that months ago. I then also updated you guys in April that things had gotten back to work. So no, its not on hold anymore. You are by definition wrong, because I have already expressed information to you much earlier than this, that things were back up and running. If you're going to use my words against me, clip one from a more recent timeframe please.

Chill, wait, be patient. I'll be back after an update on progress is produced. Just gotta be cool about this, the more you obsess and think about it, the longer this goes on. Ain't defending, just being honest about what I actually told you all.

 

[jaw1986baby]

I'll bite, I did say it was on hold, and that was Dev specific information, but I also said that months ago. I then also updated you guys in April that things had gotten back to work. So no, its not on hold anymore. You are by definition wrong, because I have already expressed information to you much earlier than this, that things were back up and running. If you're going to use my words against me, clip one from a more recent timeframe please.

Chill, wait, be patient. I'll be back after an update on progress is produced. Just gotta be cool about this, the more you obsess and think about it, the longer this goes on. Ain't defending, just being honest about what I actually told you all.

Yeah I wish the MODS would just delete literally the last 80 pages so we can just talk about progress as you get info Skummy

 

[Dragon59]

So basically, you can word it as 'delayed' and admit that it can't be completed, but you think because blue didn't say the words 'on hold' because he'd lose revenue, that you can argue with anyone who can see the obvious fact that it is on hold. It was delayed, which was ongoing, and is still ongoing

You keep using that word...
"Delayed," and "On-Hold" are not synonyms. The former says something is making progress slower, delaying progress. The latter says that work on the project has halted completely (though is expect to resume). As long as the project is being worked on, it is delayed, not on-hold.

And here's a spoiler alert, nobody cares about the textbook definition of on hold. They're entitled to say the obvious. Which it is

I know we live in a world where the word "literally" can now mean "not literally," but for clear communication, words need to have an agreed upon meanings. You can redefine delayed and on-hold all you want, but you can't expect everyone else to agree to your private definitions. I can choose to say that our household's chihuahua/corgi mix is the definition of the word alligator, but if I declare that "The alligator in our house loves attention," I can't insist others should obviously know what I'm talking about.

 

[proximus]

You keep using that word...
"Delayed," and "On-Hold" are not synonyms. The former says something is making progress slower, delaying progress. The latter says that work on the project has halted completely (though is expect to resume). As long as the project is being worked on, it is delayed, not on-hold.

I know we live in a world where the word "literally" can now mean "not literally," but for clear communication, words need to have an agreed upon meanings. You can redefine delayed and on-hold all you want, but you can't expect everyone else to agree to your private definitions. I can choose to say that our household's chihuahua/corgi mix is the definition of the word alligator, but if I declare that "The alligator in our house loves attention," I can't insist others should obviously know what I'm talking about.

Can we just say that game is "VERY DELAYED"?
I used to support quite a few devs at high level but now I mostly drop $5, 10 or 20 on Buy Me Coffee or 1 month subscription if i like the update. There are lots of honest devs on Patreon but boy, looking at some excuses, looks that it is one of the most hazardous professions one can do. Devs with integrity usually pause billing until they can resume game development.
And yes, patrons have valid expectations to receive regular updates. Gumdrop and Icstor are particularly good with playing that game. Looks like some of Icstor's patrons are finally wising up and are reporting to Patreon that "he is not creating any more" even though he is pocketing like 15k a month. His game has been finally marked as abandoned on this site.

 

[sam1234567]

Bluecat statement from discord regarding the next status update:

"the next update will be posted in the next days"

So most important information about time is "in the next days" since there is no almighty metric standard system for the timespan of "in the next days" I explain you what it means from my side. When you write "in the next few days" you can guess it means a minimum of 2 days up to probably a maximum of 1 week. but there is no "few" included in my statement which just means from day 3 up to X. but I said "days" instead of "weeks" so "weeks" means from week 3 up to X. same goes for months and years of course. the plural thingy makes it vague but not completely unclear:

Days: from day 3 up to day 20
Weeks: from day 21 up to day 90~
Months: from day 91~ up to day 1095~

So the original statement was from june 09. since them 11 days passed which means if no status report appears in the next 9 days you can call me a liar.

 

[megalol]

What kind of *** is this from BC, born of new clown? I think he just don't respect his subsribers/players. Instead of posting lame *** in DS I think he just needs start working harder and don't do word play since most ppl already lost their patience.

 

[Nagash477]

So he finally starting to loose his patrons and subscribers or what? 7 month(or more?) of delay cause 1 code guy...my god what a dumbest excuse

 

[Skummy Ecchi]

I think you guys are conferring the wrong thing from these statements, there was around a three month delay yes, not seven months delay. Do not exagerrate please.

And technically Bluecat is correct about how the wording works, updating people about the state of things when you're rushing to get shit done is hard. Just chill.

Bluecat has steadily lost support yes, but many still remain because we believe in the project and would rather not have it collapse just because there's no money coming in to finish this damn merge

 

[Bomatres]

i'm just a freeloader but, its been delayed for so long
either pay another person to code the game or stop the subscriptions, don't just take money and give empty promise

 

[Skummy Ecchi]

i'm just a freeloader but, its been delayed for so long
either pay another person to code the game or stop the subscriptions, don't just take money and give empty promise

Nobody is making empty promises, its all hands on deck right now, stop inferring that there is still an issue with there being a man down. I've already told you all time and time again, project was back up to working in April. they are making progress on everything, its not getting done in the timeframe that was originally promised but then that is life and people not understanding workflow.

There are no empty promises, just a lot of work being done.

 

[Honga]

Hey Skummy Ecchi,
do you know who "Joshua Tree" is? He is rather famous in another thread. You somehow starting to remind me of him.

Anyways, lets check the merge when its out, cannot wait to see the phone ingame, or character cards, or calendar, or . . . oh wait . . .

 

[proximus]

Nobody is making empty promises, its all hands on deck right now, stop inferring that there is still an issue with there being a man down. I've already told you all time and time again, project was back up to working in April. they are making progress on everything, its not getting done in the timeframe that was originally promised but then that is life and people not understanding workflow.

There are no empty promises, just a lot of work being done.

It's been like 12 months since the last update. That standalone filler is hardly worth mentioning as an update so people's expectations certainly went unfulfilled and patrons are justifiably disappointed.
It might be all hands on deck now, with dev feeling urgent need to produce something, but it appears that too much time has been wasted while collecting fat paycheck.

 

[Dragon59]

It's been like 12 months since the last update. That standalone filler is hardly worth mentioning as an update so people's expectations certainly went unfulfilled and patrons are justifiably disappointed.
It might be all hands on deck now, with dev feeling urgent need to produce something, but it appears that too much time has been wasted while collecting fat paycheck.

Are you a patron/subscriber?

 

[proximus]

Former

 

[Czin55]

I'm sorry, but an uncaught exception occurred.

While loading <'Image' u'mod/textbox.png'>:
Exception: Could not find font u'mod/Tahoma_Correct_Version.ttf'.

This is week 1. Not sure what I am doing wrong or why it's isn't working

 

[Dragon59]

Former

So yes, since you are a patron, you do have a stake in this issue. I respect that. It sounds like reducing or suspending your patronage until you see more progress is an option. There were a few where my first step was to reduce down to the lowest tier while I gave it a last thought. Do you follow on the Discord?

 

[proximus]

I don't use Discord and I am not patron anymore. As I mentioned in another post, now I mostly pay per update for games that I like either by Buy Me Coffee or subscribe for particular month at $10 or $20 level. At one point, I used to support dozen games but got frustrated either by direction of some of the games or luck of progress. There were several games that started very strong and showed lots of promise just to hit the wall.
Other game with lots of potential similar to this one is Waifu Academy and that one got delayed even more.

This is a very good game with dedicated following that for various reasons hit the snag. It is probably too late now, but merging weeks probably shouldn't have been started in the first place. Should have just followed what Dating my Daughter did when game became too big. Start a new Chapter which is basically a new game and answer maybe dozen questions about MC actions in previous weeks.
Sorry if I was too harsh but I would really hate to see this game abandoned.

 

[megalol]

As I said earlier this game has worst PM in the world. There are a lot of modders that helps devs with games and I'm sure have enough of knowledge to help with any Ren'Py game and if BC hired some of them half year ago, merge would be finished in few months.

 

[Deleted member 1471]

I doubt that there's enough structure or hierarchy for a PM to even do their job. I imagine they're trying their best, though.
That being said, your mileage will vary based on the dev's experience. There seems to be a complete lack of redundancy throughout the whole project. That's basic disaster aversion and project management 101.

From a pragmatic POV, this is a failed startup. Investors should and would have pulled out as soon as a TCD was abandoned for "when it's done."

From a crowd-sourced porn game POV, this is a complete toss-up. The project is still relatively well-funded. This is an enjoyable game beloved by many, however having faith in the process is increasingly hard to do given the track record. Most members of the team probably don't rely on this project as a primary source of income. Despite a general lack of financial motivation, passion projects have turned corners before (albeit exceedingly rarely).

One shouldn't throw money at a dev as an investor unless they're expecting returns or believe in the investee. Crowd-sourcing favors the latter, obviously.
As a consumer, one shouldn't invest expecting any product. That's not what investing is for.