VN Ren'Py Elvensang [Ep. 5] [Worlaix]

[MangoMeta]

Also, I do love the option to see my virtual, non-existent loved ones being fucked by others in a fictional world of my own creation! I suppose I should find mental help because I've already instinctively, unconsciously convinced myself that I am an evolutionary failure and should not procreate.

you should just say that instead of trying to suggest that somehow ntr make romance games better. newsflash, all the good romance games that exist stay the hell away from it because it doesnt work.

at least now we know the real direction this game is taking. romance for the money and ntr is the real focus

 

[-Hex-]

Thoughts?

Should probably go with beastmen and throw some goblins in there too

 

[Janavi]

I absolutely agree with you, yeah! I've always intended to make all NTR optional and tbh my intention was to make majority of adult content optional, but we'll see how that goes. Even if all sexual content was unavoidable, I'd still make NTR optional because I don't like unavoidable NTR myself.



It was a joke in response to previous comments made regarding NTR, silly! And you completely missed my point, nevermind that you twisted my words. I did not say that NTR makes romance games better, I said that the threat of NTR gives romance in a story authenticity.

But I like the way you think! In the next episode, I plan to have the MC and Sunny develop their relationship by breaking the barrier of being "just friends" and explore their blossoming affections (romance for the money) AND THEN SUNNY WILL GET GANGRAPED BY A MOB OF UNWASHED PEASANTS (the real focus).

Thoughts?

As long as horrible rape is avoidable, it's ok.
Unavoidable rape, personally for me, just in my opinion will make player lose affection and any love interest to Sunny, seing her being "defiled", filthy, disgusting.

 

[Slaanesh Champion]

But I like the way you think! In the next episode, I plan to have the MC and Sunny develop their relationship by breaking the barrier of being "just friends" and explore their blossoming affections (romance for the money) AND THEN SUNNY WILL GET GANGRAPED BY A MOB OF UNWASHED PEASANTS (the real focus).

Thoughts?

Focus of their relationship would shift into curing her from gangrape ptsd.
Also would be neat if player would be able to slaughter said mob.

 

[Slaanesh Champion]

As long as horrible rape is avoidable, it's ok.
Unavoidable rape, personally for me, just in my opinion will make player lose affection and any love interest to Sunny, seing her being "defiled", filthy, disgusting.

Hey, you would stop caring for your, for example, girlfriend if she got raped one day?

 

[Janavi]

Hey, you would stop caring for your, for example, girlfriend if she got raped one day?

Honestly, yes. I'm not proud of it.
I'm just jealous person

 

[Slaanesh Champion]

Honestly, yes. I'm not proud of it.
I'm just jealous person

Then if something bad happens, don't exspect anyone to care about you. No one loves hypocrites.

 

[Janavi]

Then if something bad happens, don't exspect anyone to care about you. No one loves hypocrites.

I know right

 

[SharkVampire]

I personally have no problem with people saying things like I should just leave NTR out of the game completely. I don't see anything harmful in polite suggestions even if it's concerning a topic that I don't intend to change, and even more abrasive remarks aimed towards the inclusion of certain fetishes are irrelevant.

Well, that's good to hear. One of the reasons why I wrote my post, was because I've seen not once that the devs give up on their ideas, because of the pressure.

If you love seeing your loved one being fucked by others - you already instinctively, unconsciously convinced yourself that you're an evolutionary failure and should not procreate.

I'm mostly sure that's not the case why people playing this genre. While it's hard for me to tell, what ntr fans looking in this games, because, as I said I'm not count myself as one of them and I have my own vision how I like to see it (I'll write it bellow), but I can guess that this people looking for strong emotions in this games. When all goes well and there is no threat in horizon, it's quickly get boring, so it matter of discovering new feelings. Also, some people prefer more grim story, even with bad endings, because it give you more afterthoughts, then typical happy end.

I said that the threat of NTR gives romance in a story authenticity.

According to your answers you mostly see ntr, as a plot instrument, than something sexually attractive to you. Or ntr takes the least position and romance on the first place nevertheless. Point me out if I'm wrong.

As for my position, it's rather simple, I'm not self-insert myself into protagonist and look into the story, as some kind of film-director who turn story in the way he want. At first, it was quite surprising for me, that so many people on this forum so obsessed with self inserting. I even asked all my close friends about it, I was really curious if it that common, but they think the same way as me. Continuing the thought regarding ntr, I really like corruption genre in this games, not only in way, where the MC corrupt characters for his personal use, but to make them perfect whores. I also like deep depravity in this kind of games, since, I'm mostly observer, it doesn't matter for me, who fuck in the scene, if it some kind of cheating towards one of main characters, it's only give additional hots to the scene, if the scene created in a good way with right circumstance and realistic characters thoughts. For romantic stories I look somewhere else, I better watch some anime, film or read a book after all, in this games I want to see spicy content that you hardly find in this sources. I rarely find myself in deep bond with characters presented in this games, but if the author did really great job in character development and I really fall in love for some female character, I change my opinion, and probably wouldn't want to deeply corrupt her, but I will try to do only good things for her. But it happened only few times for all time I playing this games.

 

[Worlaix]

Well, that's good to hear. One of the reasons why I wrote my post, was because I've seen not once that the devs give up on their ideas, because of the pressure.


I'm mostly sure that's not the case why people playing this genre. While it's hard for me to tell, what ntr fans looking in this games, because, as I said I'm not count myself as one of them and I have my own vision how I like to see it (I'll write it bellow), but I can guess that this people looking for strong emotions in this games. When all goes well and there is no threat in horizon, it's quickly get boring, so it matter of discovering new feelings. Also, some people prefer more grim story, even with bad endings, because it give you more afterthoughts, then typical happy end.

According to your answers you mostly see ntr, as a plot instrument, than something sexually attractive to you. Or ntr takes the least position and romance on the first place nevertheless. Point me out if I'm wrong.

As for my position, it's rather simple, I'm not self-insert myself into protagonist and look into the story, as some kind of film-director who turn story in the way he want. At first, it was quite surprising for me, that so many people on this forum so obsessed with self inserting. I even asked all my close friends about it, I was really curious if it that common, but they think the same way as me. Continuing the thought regarding ntr, I really like corruption genre in this games, not only in way, where the MC corrupt characters for his personal use, but to make them perfect whores. I also like deep depravity in this kind of games, since, I'm mostly observer, it doesn't matter for me, who fuck in the scene, if it some kind of cheating towards one of main characters, it's only give additional hots to the scene, if the scene created in a good way with right circumstance and realistic characters thoughts. For romantic stories I look somewhere else, I better watch some anime, film or read a book after all, in this games I want to see spicy content that you hardly find in this sources. I rarely find myself in deep bond with characters presented in this games, but if the author did really great job in character development and I really fall in love for some female character, I change my opinion, and probably wouldn't want to deeply corrupt her, but I will try to do only good things for her. But it happened only few times for all time I playing this games.

I haven't dropped a wall of text here in a while, so I suppose I can make up for that now!

In the case of Elvensang, I think self-inserting is facilitated by the style of narration, e.g. you won't hear any inner monologues or thought processes of the MC and the narration is in second person. But that is for the sake of immersion – I describe what happens to the MC as if it happened to you, the player. I am not really sure how many people prefer to self-insert or just watch as a passive spectator, but I like to be immersed in a story! So that's what I tried to do with Elvensang.

As for corruption, it's important to remember that even though the MC starts out as fairly blank, he is still a character. He is a young elf, innocent and inexperienced. This is why the very thought of him corrupting women into being his whores is utterly outlandish to me. Sure, he might grow into that further down the road, but that is a long road to go indeed from where he is in the prologue. Mind you, I am not really mentioning that in response to what you said about corruption, but you mentioning that made me reflect on what I have witnessed of corruption in some other games. While I obviously have no issue at all with other people enjoying it, it's never going to happen in Elvensang like that.

Then there is another, even more important factor at play, which is that the characters in the story are unsurprisingly also "characters". Could you corrupt Sunny into being your perfect whore? Absolutely. Could you corrupt Amaya? Never. Why? Because she is already one of the most morally tarnished characters in the story. Not that she is a whore, absolutely not – she would probably be the most dedicated and faithful partner you could imagine. But a perverted whore is a saint compared to Amaya in my books. Trying to corrupt Amaya would be like trying to corrupt Hitler into becoming your perfect whore. Even if you came up with a way of how to break Amaya, it all comes full circle when you realize that the MC would never go such lengths for something so inconsequential in his life.

 

[SharkVampire]

I haven't dropped a wall of text here in a while, so I suppose I can make up for that now!
...

Well, thanks for detailed answer. You probably a bit misunderstood me when I was explaining about my preferences, but it's fine. I'm totally not expecting from your game to be like I've described, I just set the example of game, which I could find enjoying for myself and explained by it how I feel about ntr. Your game don't even have corruption in tags, so that's really not the reason why I'm here I perfectly understand that your game is different and I can find different things to enjoy, for example a good story. But I will be honest here, I played only 1 update of the game, and I even left a comment after that, so I'm not particularly decide if I continue to play it, only new update show it. Your clarification about unavoidable romance helpful though, I usually prefer to be in control with whom my character will engage his relationship. Inner thoughts don't bother me at all, I take them as his thoughts anyway. As for Amaya, is that the elf bloodthirsty killer, if I'm not mistaken? I don't like her, I wanted to get rid of her and try to live peacefully with humans (as much, as possible), but the story would be quite boring yes? So the MC need to be pulled out of his comfort zone to advance the story. I'm also thinking that MC's mother have good reasons for living far away from her ancestors, and this is another reason why I'm not really eager too cooperate with Amaya and other elves.

 

[Janavi]

I haven't dropped a wall of text here in a while, so I suppose I can make up for that now!

In the case of Elvensang, I think self-inserting is facilitated by the style of narration, e.g. you won't hear any inner monologues or thought processes of the MC and the narration is in second person. But that is for the sake of immersion – I describe what happens to the MC as if it happened to you, the player. I am not really sure how many people prefer to self-insert or just watch as a passive spectator, but I like to be immersed in a story! So that's what I tried to do with Elvensang.

As for corruption, it's important to remember that even though the MC starts out as fairly blank, he is still a character. He is a young elf, innocent and inexperienced. This is why the very thought of him corrupting women into being his whores is utterly outlandish to me. Sure, he might grow into that further down the road, but that is a long road to go indeed from where he is in the prologue. Mind you, I am not really mentioning that in response to what you said about corruption, but you mentioning that made me reflect on what I have witnessed of corruption in some other games. While I obviously have no issue at all with other people enjoying it, it's never going to happen in Elvensang like that.

Then there is another, even more important factor at play, which is that the characters in the story are unsurprisingly also "characters". Could you corrupt Sunny into being your perfect whore? Absolutely. Could you corrupt Amaya? Never. Why? Because she is already one of the most morally tarnished characters in the story. Not that she is a whore, absolutely not – she would probably be the most dedicated and faithful partner you could imagine. But a perverted whore is a saint compared to Amaya in my books. Trying to corrupt Amaya would be like trying to corrupt Hitler into becoming your perfect whore. Even if you came up with a way of how to break Amaya, it all comes full circle when you realize that the MC would never go such lengths for something so inconsequential in his life.

Concerning NTR - NTR is definitely sexually attractive to me (I wouldn't have put it in the game otherwise), though I tend to be very picky about its execution. That said, romance will always be a priority in Elvensang – romance with Sunny is unavoidable, after all. But it's difficult to talk about NTR with how controversial it is. On one hand, I don't plan to make it as big of a focus as some people might expect (which applies to virtually any fetish), but it's easier to exaggerate its presence to warn potential players, especially those who despise NTR, that I will implement it in any way I want further down the line.

You are very unique developer in my opinion, after reading your comments here.
And your choice to make Elvensang non-linear is very good, for me personally the storyline of the game is the main reason I play, It's the great story.
I see your game not like a porn, I see it like a movie. For example Twilight and other romantic movies.
Some people wait from Elvensang a great story, some wait for perverted porn game.
And seeing your own opinion as developer is very, very good.

 

[-Hex-]

Concerning NTR - NTR is definitely sexually attractive to me (I wouldn't have put it in the game otherwise), though I tend to be very picky about its execution. That said, romance will always be a priority in Elvensang – romance with Sunny is unavoidable, after all. But it's difficult to talk about NTR with how controversial it is. On one hand, I don't plan to make it as big of a focus as some people might expect (which applies to virtually any fetish), but it's easier to exaggerate its presence to warn potential players, especially those who despise NTR, that I will implement it in any way I want further down the line.

And you'll find out that, as long as said kink will be avoidable, you will mostly have no problem with a majority of players, myself included (ofc for some even the presence of it in the game will be enough to sour the experience, but they're a really small group)
I personally have no prob with it, as long as i can avoid it from happening (important distinction here, avoidable is different from "still happens but don't see it" A LOT of devs received a ton of shit for that mistake and some people really take things a bit too far when they're pissed) i have no problem with it being in the game, i just don't like when it's an unavoidable plot device withjout any way out of it, since it's the kink i dislike the most (i know hate is a strong word, but i'll say that i really hate it lol)

For example Twilight and other romantic movies.

Oh lord, why did you have to use that as an example?

 

[Janavi]

Oh lord, why did you have to use that as an example?

Lol I just made a mainstream example that everyone knows

 

[Slaanesh Champion]

I'm mostly sure that's not the case why people playing this genre. While it's hard for me to tell, what ntr fans looking in this games, because, as I said I'm not count myself as one of them and I have my own vision how I like to see it (I'll write it bellow), but I can guess that this people looking for strong emotions in this games. When all goes well and there is no threat in horizon, it's quickly get boring, so it matter of discovering new feelings. Also, some people prefer more grim story, even with bad endings, because it give you more afterthoughts, then typical happy end.

You misinterpret. I wasn't talking about conflict/challenge. I was specifically talking about why people love/hate ntr.

When all goes well and there is no threat in horizon, it's quickly get boring, so it matter of discovering new feelings.

Good story can create tension and awoke strong emotions without massive cuckfest, especially without unavoidable cuckfest.

 

[SharkVampire]

You misinterpret. I wasn't talking about conflict/challenge. I was specifically talking about why people love/hate ntr.
Good story can create tension and awoke strong emotions without massive cuckfest, especially without unavoidable cuckfest.

The reason is emotions as I said.
You can look at ntr as a tool for creating drama, if that makes more sense to you.
If you look on some very well written stories, the people get deeply emotional attached toward characters, so when the ntr happens it's heartbreaking for them. That's the answer that I got reading comments in ntr game thread. Despite the negative nature of this feelings, they are really strong, jealousy especially, and as we know, the emotions are very strong drug, so people continue to seek such content to reawaken these feelings. That's the only answer I can give. Those who play such games regularly probably will give more detailed answer.

 

[Slaanesh Champion]

I want to kill Amaya. I hate that bitch.

 

[Deleted member 949883]

I personally have no problem with people saying things like I should just leave NTR out of the game completely. I don't see anything harmful in polite suggestions even if it's concerning a topic that I don't intend to change, and even more abrasive remarks aimed towards the inclusion of certain fetishes are irrelevant. I love hearing people's opinions, but I cannot promise to always take them into account, because at the end of the day, I will continue to develop Elvensang according to my vision regardless of how it might impact its popularity.

Also, I do love the option to see my virtual, non-existent loved ones being fucked by others in a fictional world of my own creation! I suppose I should find mental help because I've already instinctively, unconsciously convinced myself that I am an evolutionary failure and should not procreate.

meanies

As long as it is optional and as long as I do not accidentally stumble upon it NTR is not a problem for me and I think the same goes for many other people. However at the same time I will never support this game because I do not want to pay actual money to support work that goes in a direction I despise. A game like this one will no doubt take time to create because there is a difference between your art and churning out HoneySelect renders. So I were to subscribe as a patreon, in my mind I am essentially paying for significant amount of dev time being spent on NTR content and that is a bit of a deal breaker for me.

That said I appreciate you making things clear on what to expect. Can you please also make this clear on patreon in the description? I cannot tell simply from reading the description that this was your intention with the game. It will serve as a fair warning to those who come across the game through other sources because had I not visited f95 and looked at this thread I would not have known about the direction you were taking this game. Good luck with future development and best wishes.

 

[Py Ape]

I personally have no problem with people saying things like I should just leave NTR out of the game completely. I don't see anything harmful in polite suggestions even if it's concerning a topic that I don't intend to change, and even more abrasive remarks aimed towards the inclusion of certain fetishes are irrelevant. I love hearing people's opinions, but I cannot promise to always take them into account, because at the end of the day, I will continue to develop Elvensang according to my vision regardless of how it might impact its popularity.

Also, I do love the option to see my virtual, non-existent loved ones being fucked by others in a fictional world of my own creation! I suppose I should find mental help because I've already instinctively, unconsciously convinced myself that I am an evolutionary failure and should not procreate.

meanies

I am glad you will develop the game according to your vision! I absolutely

I haven't dropped a wall of text here in a while, so I suppose I can make up for that now!

In the case of Elvensang, I think self-inserting is facilitated by the style of narration, e.g. you won't hear any inner monologues or thought processes of the MC and the narration is in second person. But that is for the sake of immersion – I describe what happens to the MC as if it happened to you, the player. I am not really sure how many people prefer to self-insert or just watch as a passive spectator, but I like to be immersed in a story! So that's what I tried to do with Elvensang.

As for corruption, it's important to remember that even though the MC starts out as fairly blank, he is still a character. He is a young elf, innocent and inexperienced. This is why the very thought of him corrupting women into being his whores is utterly outlandish to me. Sure, he might grow into that further down the road, but that is a long road to go indeed from where he is in the prologue. Mind you, I am not really mentioning that in response to what you said about corruption, but you mentioning that made me reflect on what I have witnessed of corruption in some other games. While I obviously have no issue at all with other people enjoying it, it's never going to happen in Elvensang like that.

Then there is another, even more important factor at play, which is that the characters in the story are unsurprisingly also "characters". Could you corrupt Sunny into being your perfect whore? Absolutely. Could you corrupt Amaya? Never. Why? Because she is already one of the most morally tarnished characters in the story. Not that she is a whore, absolutely not – she would probably be the most dedicated and faithful partner you could imagine. But a perverted whore is a saint compared to Amaya in my books. Trying to corrupt Amaya would be like trying to corrupt Hitler into becoming your perfect whore. Even if you came up with a way of how to break Amaya, it all comes full circle when you realize that the MC would never go such lengths for something so inconsequential in his life.

Concerning NTR - NTR is definitely sexually attractive to me (I wouldn't have put it in the game otherwise), though I tend to be very picky about its execution. That said, romance will always be a priority in Elvensang – romance with Sunny is unavoidable, after all. But it's difficult to talk about NTR with how controversial it is. On one hand, I don't plan to make it as big of a focus as some people might expect (which applies to virtually any fetish), but it's easier to exaggerate its presence to warn potential players, especially those who despise NTR, that I will implement it in any way I want further down the line.

I like Amaya<3 and I am glad you won't be affected by criticism.

 

[Deleted member 949883]

There must have been some sort of miscommunication here - the Prologue has no NTR, and I've implied before here that I do not even have any firm plans for NTR. Can you tell me what gave you the impression that Elvensang is headed in the direction of NTR and that I will spend a significant amount of my time developing NTR content?

I like anal, but that does not mean I will spend a significant amount of my time creating content with anal sex.

The reason I got the impression you will spend a significant amount of time on NTR is because of the type of game you are trying to develop. I am no artist but I think the type of art that I see in this game takes more time on average than the usual daz/honey select games (dont get me wrong this is a very good thing). The code may be simple now but you seem to have plans for a lot of choices and consequence and I guarantee you that it will explode into something extremely complex. Let's say you put out an update every 3 months where 5 updates have vanilla scenes and 1 has an NTR scene. In the grand scheme of your game yes there is little ntr content relative to non ntr content but from the perspective of a patreon thats 3 months I have waited for content I have no interest in.

Please note that I am not trying to convince you to not do NTR scenes - if that is your vision you should absolutely stick to it. But if you do plan on adding it, it would be helpful to people like me if it is on patreon since I do not visit these forums or discord channels very often.