TheLecher

Well-Known Member
Nov 21, 2018
1,426
2,443
I guess someone had to be first and open the Pandora's box, so here's a link to tierlist template . Didn't include side characters who I think won't have future relevancy.

And here's my personal tierlist:
View attachment 3659997
You should have included all of the characters. Morrigan Rae has already stated that, if all goes according to plan, every named character in the game will have at least one lewd scene. So side characters with names will have future relevancy, though how much is in question.

That criticism aside, you did a pretty cool thing there. Nice job.

I decided to participate, so my list is spoilered below. I added in the characters you left out, including two characters who were not named - the bartender from the beach and the shop assistant. Morrigan Rae has stated that the bartender will be back, later in the story. As for the shop assistant, we have no such assurance, but I decided to include her, just because I have a hunch that she'll be back.

Unfortunately, the characters I added couldn't be saved to your list, so others will either have to add them in for themselves or use the characters you saw fit to include.

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

I don't know if the "every named character gets a lewd scene" rule would apply to Jane or the Other One, since they're characters with no real existence in the game world, but I included them on the off chance that they might feature in some dream and/or flashback action, at some point.
 

Kontralta

Member
Sep 28, 2023
283
232
Except Rachel and Ashe don't share everything. Prior to the bus scene there is at least one instance where Ashe purposely withhold information from Rachel. It happens either at the pool this update or the prior one when they meet up near the stream. I don't have time right now to go do a playthrough again to clip the quotes. but those instances do happen. Whether Ashe is only refraining from oversharing or not is dependent on the player's interpretation. So when later after the bus scene when Ashe is in her thoughts and is saying to herself that it is normal for close sisters to share everything, to me, it comes out as rationalisation rather than sound and logical reasoning.

I don't personally share everything with my brothers either.

This point does not prove that Del lied when she told Ashe that Fiona told her right after Ashe told her that Fiona was the only person outside of her family to know her secret. Let's just say that the burden of proof falls on her to prove she did not lie rather than on us to prove she did with the circumstances being against her.

To put it in legal terms, we can't prove "Beyond reasonable doubt" that Del lied but it sure looks like it. what I think is happening is that we can all agree on the facts presented to us, the interpretation we make of those events varies. What also varies is the degree of proof for pointing a finger at a particular character we each require.

A red herring is a plot device that push the reader to point their finger at a particular character while the proof for the real culprit is already there. A good red herring would make the player point their finger at Del while Siri is the culprit for example. The thing is this story device is not always used. So right now we have suspects but no culprit and we are still looking through the story for who might be the culprit.
Yes, Ashe hid some things from Rachel, but only those that were too personal for her could make her feel shame or ruin her relationship with her sister. But here there is no such thing. And yes, Ashe literally said that it is normal for sisters to share secrets with each other. This is precisely the logical conclusion with which she justified Fiona’s action for herself. She didn't find it unacceptable or a betrayal.

Why does the burden of proof suddenly fall on Delilah? There's nothing there to indicate she was lying. It is you who needs to prove that she was lying, given that she initially did not know that Fiona knew the secret, which means that by telling Ashe that she knows everything, she could expose herself as a blackmailer, which is a rather stupid act for someone who was able to organize blackmail. And she doesn’t look like a red herring either, since she should at least look like a blackmailer, but nothing indicates this at all. Your speculation about lies is based only on subjective feelings. Don't impose your subjective feelings on me, give me logical arguments.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Birdnman993

TheLecher

Well-Known Member
Nov 21, 2018
1,426
2,443
Unfortunately, the characters I added couldn't be saved to your list, so others will either have to add them in for themselves or use the characters you saw fit to include.
For the people who want to add in the missing characters, here are the game screenshots I used for my list.

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.
 

Knight_of_the_lance

Active Member
Feb 23, 2020
727
1,310
Yes, Ashe hid some things from Rachel, but only those that were too personal for her could make her feel shame or ruin her relationship with her sister. But here there is no such thing. And yes, Ashe literally said that it is normal for sisters to share secrets with each other. This is precisely the logical conclusion with which she justified Fiona’s action for herself. She didn't find it unacceptable or a betrayal.

Why does the burden of proof suddenly fall on Delilah? There's nothing there to indicate she was lying. It is you who needs to prove that she was lying, given that she initially did not know that Fiona knew the secret, which means that by telling Ashe that she knows everything, she could expose herself as a blackmailer, which is a rather stupid act for someone who was able to organize blackmail. And she doesn’t look like a red herring either, since she should at least look like a blackmailer, but nothing indicates this at all. Your speculation about lies is based only on subjective feelings. Don't impose your subjective feelings on me, give me logical arguments.
I specifically left out the talk about blackmail since I know your opinion on the subject and it is not the point I want to make here. Even if she is not the blackmailer, her behavior is a bit sus when she tels Ashe that she knows the secret through Fiona. And here the dilemma is between the trust in Fiona and Delilah frankness. If Delilah is telling the truth about the source of her knowledge it makes Fiona an unreliable friend. If Del is lying then Fiona knows which secret to keep. Also Delilah could be lying simply because she is embarrassed to admit that she spied on her and Zoey. It does not have to go farther than that. the lie itself is not a prove that she is the blackmailer. That is not the point of this specific argument. It is simply a trail that must be followed.

If during a private discutions with my cousin he comes out to me as Bi I wont go to my brothers to tel them right after he told me. I would feel privileged to be someone he shared his secret with. I would keep his secret until I knew he made it public since it is his decision to make, not mine. I would want to be worthy of his trust. I would feel that telling my brothers would be a breach of his trust.

The burden of proof falling on Del comes from her body language when she told Ashe that it was Fiona that told her right after Ashe mentioned Fiona among others that know her secret. I also trust Fiona to keep Ashe's secret even from her sister. And that burden is for the players who don't believe her not for Ashe since Ashe believed her in the end. The hard evidence you want, I don't have it. For me it is not necessary to come to the conclusion that there are strong chances that she is lying. For you, like you pointed out, you need harder evidences.

At the end I talked about red herring, a trail that you do not see Delilah leading us on. That is ok, but if others think that she is a red herring or the culprit then she is at least a red herring since she is leading readers, not all readers, to believe that she is the blackmailer. Not all readers will take the bait, maybe you didn't, too soon to tell. The fact that others, not you, make her their prime suspect regardless if she is guilty of blackmail or not by definition makes her a red herring. Arguing that she is not is like arguing about other people's preference, it is a fact you can't change simply with your opinion. IF you want you could call everyone's suspect a red herring.

Look here I am trying to find common ground, I am not trying to tell you that you are wrong since the hard evidence you speak of does not exist yet. I am trying to find facts we can agree on not ones we disagree on.

I would rather do a silly tier list than argue on the internet, but I think that finding that common ground is important to build something positive on it rather than be at odds on everything.
 

Dessolos

Forum Fanatic
Jul 25, 2017
5,743
7,659
If during a private discutions with my cousin he comes out to me as Bi I wont go to my brothers to tel them right after he told me. I would feel privileged to be someone he shared his secret with. I would keep his secret until I knew he made it public since it is his decision to make, not mine. I would want to be worthy of his trust. I would feel that telling my brothers would be a breach of his trust.

The burden of proof falling on Del comes from her body language when she told Ashe that it was Fiona that told her right after Ashe mentioned Fiona among others that know her secret. I also trust Fiona to keep Ashe's secret even from her sister. And that burden is for the players who don't believe her not for Ashe since Ashe believed her in the end. The hard evidence you want, I don't have it.
100% this if im wrong and she didn't lie Fiona will be worst than anything Vanessa or Rachael has did in my eyes. I think being untrustworthy is worst than doing something as fucked up as Vanessa did especially when it's a major secret not something small. Especially that would mean just cant keep a secret for more than a day lol. But honestly I don't buy for a moment Ashe believed Del that and personally think it would be out of character for Fiona to tell her sister Ashe's secret. Unless I miss remember the order of scenes here I think Ashe is waiting to ask Fiona in person if she did tell her sister or not. Even if Ashe did believe Del and was okay with it being shared. I think it would make sense she would want to hear it from Fiona. Either way I think we will find out if she lied or not in the next update
 

Kontralta

Member
Sep 28, 2023
283
232
I specifically left out the talk about blackmail since I know your opinion on the subject and it is not the point I want to make here. Even if she is not the blackmailer, her behavior is a bit sus when she tels Ashe that she knows the secret through Fiona. And here the dilemma is between the trust in Fiona and Delilah frankness. If Delilah is telling the truth about the source of her knowledge it makes Fiona an unreliable friend. If Del is lying then Fiona knows which secret to keep. Also Delilah could be lying simply because she is embarrassed to admit that she spied on her and Zoey. It does not have to go farther than that. the lie itself is not a prove that she is the blackmailer. That is not the point of this specific argument. It is simply a trail that must be followed.

If during a private discutions with my cousin he comes out to me as Bi I wont go to my brothers to tel them right after he told me. I would feel privileged to be someone he shared his secret with. I would keep his secret until I knew he made it public since it is his decision to make, not mine. I would want to be worthy of his trust. I would feel that telling my brothers would be a breach of his trust.

The burden of proof falling on Del comes from her body language when she told Ashe that it was Fiona that told her right after Ashe mentioned Fiona among others that know her secret. I also trust Fiona to keep Ashe's secret even from her sister. And that burden is for the players who don't believe her not for Ashe since Ashe believed her in the end. The hard evidence you want, I don't have it. For me it is not necessary to come to the conclusion that there are strong chances that she is lying. For you, like you pointed out, you need harder evidences.

At the end I talked about red herring, a trail that you do not see Delilah leading us on. That is ok, but if others think that she is a red herring or the culprit then she is at least a red herring since she is leading readers, not all readers, to believe that she is the blackmailer. Not all readers will take the bait, maybe you didn't, too soon to tell. The fact that others, not you, make her their prime suspect regardless if she is guilty of blackmail or not by definition makes her a red herring. Arguing that she is not is like arguing about other people's preference, it is a fact you can't change simply with your opinion. IF you want you could call everyone's suspect a red herring.

Look here I am trying to find common ground, I am not trying to tell you that you are wrong since the hard evidence you speak of does not exist yet. I am trying to find facts we can agree on not ones we disagree on.

I would rather do a silly tier list than argue on the internet, but I think that finding that common ground is important to build something positive on it rather than be at odds on everything.
First, Ashe doesn't consider Fiona to be an unreliable friend for telling Delilah everything. She thinks this is normal. The fact that you don't think it's normal doesn't matter.
Secondly, body language, seriously? Are you Dr. Lightman? How do you detect lies from body language? For a static 3d model?
Thirdly, I have no idea why Delilah seems to everyone either a real blackmailer or a red herring, there is nothing to indicate this at all.
Fourth, it's good that you acknowledge the lack of evidence and just want to find common ground. But there are people who believe that the fact that Delilah is a blackmailer is obvious to everyone, and I’m just blind or stupid, and they don’t give any argument, because why, everything is obvious. It's stupid.
 
  • Angry
Reactions: Robotai

Hungover00

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2023
1,040
1,010
100% this if im wrong and she didn't lie Fiona will be worst than anything Vanessa or Rachael has did in my eyes. I think being untrustworthy is worst than doing something as fucked up as Vanessa did especially when it's a major secret not something small. Especially that would mean just cant keep a secret for more than a day lol. But honestly I don't buy for a moment Ashe believed Del that and personally think it would be out of character for Fiona to tell her sister Ashe's secret. Unless I miss remember the order of scenes here I think Ashe is waiting to ask Fiona in person if she did tell her sister or not. Even if Ashe did believe Del and was okay with it being shared. I think it would make sense she would want to hear it from Fiona. Either way I think we will find out if she lied or not in the next update
Just watch out about feeding the troll Kontralta, they are here just to be a contrarian, people show evidence, they ignore it and claim no one has given any evidence re: sus Delilah. It's been going on for over a week now. They don't bring anything new, refuse to see other's perspectives, and are incredibly flawed as a debater.
 

ElmerFapp

Member
Mar 27, 2022
125
90
Just to add my 2 cents, I think the blackmailer is Delilah. She told Ashe she found out from Fiona because Ashe herself said that Fiona was supposed to be the only one that knew. So naturally Delilah's only route after her slip is to just say she found out from Fiona.
 

Kontralta

Member
Sep 28, 2023
283
232
Just to add my 2 cents, I think the blackmailer is Delilah. She told Ashe she found out from Fiona because Ashe herself said that Fiona was supposed to be the only one that knew. So naturally Delilah's only route after her slip is to just say she found out from Fiona.
Just answer the question - why did Delilah tell Ashe that she knew her secret BEFORE Ashe mentioned Fiona?
 

Dessolos

Forum Fanatic
Jul 25, 2017
5,743
7,659
Just to add my 2 cents, I think the blackmailer is Delilah. She told Ashe she found out from Fiona because Ashe herself said that Fiona was supposed to be the only one that knew. So naturally Delilah's only route after her slip is to just say she found out from Fiona.
I don't really think Delilah is the blackmailer cause the way the blackmailer is blackmailing Ashe. As I don't think Delilah would want to hurt Ashe in any way , like reveal her secret unless she never intends to follow through and just wants some nudes. Otherwise I can't see why she would blackmail Ashe. Still makes me wonder how she found how she found about Ashe's secret as it's clear to me she is lying because of how she hesitated and came up with a reason on the spot.

One of my theories is this. She isn't the blackmailer but the blackmailer lied to Ashe and told Delilah for some reason and she came up with the lie Fiona did cause it would be better Fiona knew her secret instead of a stranger. Since Delilah had no idea about the blackmail or someone else knows.
 

Hungover00

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2023
1,040
1,010
I don't really think Delilah is the blackmailer cause the way the blackmailer is blackmailing Ashe. As I don't think Delilah would want to hurt Ashe in any way , like reveal her secret unless she never intends to follow through and just wants some nudes. Otherwise I can't see why she would blackmail Ashe. Still makes me wonder how she found how she found about Ashe's secret as it's clear to me she is lying because of how she hesitated and came up with a reason on the spot.

One of my theories is this. She isn't the blackmailer but the blackmailer lied to Ashe and told Delilah for some reason and she came up with the lie Fiona did cause it would be better Fiona knew her secret instead of a stranger. Since Delilah had no idea about the blackmail or someone else knows.
'Never intends to follow through and just wants some nudes' does kinda describe the blackmail so far. The blackmailer didn't even say anything like 'I'll accept these pics today, but you know that's not going to be good enough in the future.' They just stopped messaging for ~2-3 days (iirc).

I'm still not sure if Delilah is the blackmailer, but from what info we have, she's the main suspect until more evidence comes in. I do kind of think and hope she'll be vindicated, but will be caught out in some lesser lies. And a lot of people could still be the blackmailer, but there's not enough evidence for a convincing 2nd place.
 

Dessolos

Forum Fanatic
Jul 25, 2017
5,743
7,659
How did you find out?
Look I already know you aren't going to accept any answer I give and probably a troll at this point but i'll bite and feed you one more time incase you aren't. Since it's clear to me you can't let me have my own opinion. Sure there is always a chance im wrong but if you read my post you would know why I think so. But I'll just copy paste why I think so , and yes there is no hard evidence. The way the scene played out clearly points me in the direction in having the opinion she is lying.

From my post "She hesitated and came up with a reason on the spot". Someone who isn't lying isn't going to hesitate unless she is hiding something and unless she is the blackmailer why would she hesitate. I don't think she is the blackmailer so it's clear to me personally she is lying. So logically I came to the conclusion she is lying because of her hesitation.

If Fiona really did tell her there would be no reason to hesitate once Ashe called her out for lying for saying she is different. According to Delilah Fiona told her not to say a word. Yet that makes no sense to me at all why would she even bring up she is different in a conversation if she isn't suppose to say a word about it because she promised Fiona. So even if she isn't lying which I do not believe she is full of red flags.
 

Dessolos

Forum Fanatic
Jul 25, 2017
5,743
7,659
'Never intends to follow through and just wants some nudes' does kinda describe the blackmail so far. The blackmailer didn't even say anything like 'I'll accept these pics today, but you know that's not going to be good enough in the future.' They just stopped messaging for ~2-3 days (iirc).

I'm still not sure if Delilah is the blackmailer, but from what info we have, she's the main suspect until more evidence comes in. I do kind of think and hope she'll be vindicated, but will be caught out in some lesser lies. And a lot of people could still be the blackmailer, but there's not enough evidence for a convincing 2nd place.
yeah the only other person that makes sense to me is Jessica. However I don't know how she would of found out in such short of a time period. The timeframe doesn't fit as I doubt she found out and started to blackmail her within what was it 1 - 2 days.
 

Hungover00

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2023
1,040
1,010
Look I already know you aren't going to accept any answer I give. Since it's clear to me you can't let me have my own opinion. Sure there is always a chance im wrong but if you read my post you would know why I think so. But I'll just copy paste why I think so , and yes there is no hard evidence. The way the scene played out clearly points me in the direction in having the opinion she is lying.

From my post "She hesitated and came up with a reason on the spot". Someone who isn't lying isn't going to hesitate unless she is hiding something and unless she is the blackmailer why would she hesitate. I don't think she is the blackmailer so it's clear to me personally she is lying. So logically I came to the conclusion she is lying because of her hesitation.

If Fiona really did tell her there would be no reason to hesitate once Ashe called her out for lying for saying she is different. According to Delilah Fiona told her not to say a word. Yet that makes no sense to me at all why would she even bring up she is different in a conversation if she isn't suppose to say a word about it because she promised Fiona. So even if she isn't lying which I do not believe she is full of red flags.
I think if we just straight up never respond to it (I don't think Trolls have genders) their head may implode and peace will be realised.

Despite what may be said, it's usually actually easier to read emotions in non-film visual mediums, because they are often less subtle/more exaggerated than they would be in real life. So anyone that can do it normally will absolutely catch it when it's in these mediums, if they pay attention.

You've pointed out these moments that have telegraphed that Delilah is hiding something.
 

ElmerFapp

Member
Mar 27, 2022
125
90
The fact this conversation is even happening should speak volumes to how well the writings been handled so far. Time will tell what ends up being the truth if we ever learn the truth. If I was Ashe I'd for sure have a question for Fiona lol. She just doesn't seem to be someone that would go behind Ashe's back especially after knowing/seeing how much she cared about keeping it a secret.
 
  • Like
Reactions: damnedfrog

Kontralta

Member
Sep 28, 2023
283
232
Look I already know you aren't going to accept any answer I give and probably a troll at this point but i'll bite and feed you one more time incase you aren't. Since it's clear to me you can't let me have my own opinion. Sure there is always a chance im wrong but if you read my post you would know why I think so. But I'll just copy paste why I think so , and yes there is no hard evidence. The way the scene played out clearly points me in the direction in having the opinion she is lying.

From my post "She hesitated and came up with a reason on the spot". Someone who isn't lying isn't going to hesitate unless she is hiding something and unless she is the blackmailer why would she hesitate. I don't think she is the blackmailer so it's clear to me personally she is lying. So logically I came to the conclusion she is lying because of her hesitation.

If Fiona really did tell her there would be no reason to hesitate once Ashe called her out for lying for saying she is different. According to Delilah Fiona told her not to say a word. Yet that makes no sense to me at all why would she even bring up she is different in a conversation if she isn't suppose to say a word about it because she promised Fiona. So even if she isn't lying which I do not believe she is full of red flags.
Goddess, Delilah hesitated because she was afraid of Ashe's reaction, who almost started yelling at her! Purely logically, she couldn’t lie, otherwise it would mean that she didn’t have an answer to how she knew Ashe’s secret, which means she wouldn’t said that she knew it. Yes, she mentioned that Ash was different, but that was out of excitement and because she was trying to tell Ash that she wanted to get closer to her.
No, I let you have your opinion, calm down. But please make your opinion logical.
 

Kontralta

Member
Sep 28, 2023
283
232
The fact this conversation is even happening should speak volumes to how well the writings been handled so far. Time will tell what ends up being the truth if we ever learn the truth. If I was Ashe I'd for sure have a question for Fiona lol. She just doesn't seem to be someone that would go behind Ashe's back especially after knowing/seeing how much she cared about keeping it a secret.
Fiona doesn't go behind Ashe's back, she only told her sister and Ash thinks it's normal.
 
4.90 star(s) 95 Votes