That's a huge incoherence of the DEV part then.
Why create 3 paths then, if the personality of the MC doesn't change and she still a scare cat all the same?
Poor Ashe, then!
Why create 3 paths then, if the personality of the MC doesn't change and she still a scare cat all the same?
Poor Ashe, then!
It seems to me that Siren Ashe could potentially learn Martial Arts from Vanessa seeing their interactions, maybe Vanessa teaches Ashe to kick some ass and Ashe whoops Rape cop's ass, if that happens, i'll count it as a massive W for Siren Ashe
That would definitely make me stay and "suffer" playing the game if becomes a reality.
- Jul 25, 2017
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yeah im 100% with you I will never understand the Rachael hate or saying see is a shitty human. I don't think anything can change my mind on that. I've read some of the post but honestly I skip most of them as they are to much of a wall of text to read after seeing it more than once lol. I can understand a dislike for her but that's it's to me ive seen much worst characters out there , like the cop.
I see her as making a mistake but I also put part of the blame on Ashe as well. ( a smaller amount of it) You can chalk it up to my personality of being too nice of a person or whatever. But I see it as her making a big mistake and she knows it. Not like she is still giving her the cold shoulder or not talking to her after she got the courage to talk to her after everything that happened. She is still making an effort to be a good person and sister otherwise she wouldn't be wanting to help with the blackmail. After all she realized she fucked up she is only human.
I think it's silly personally to hate her and say she is a terrible person over what she did. But dislike is 100% deserved depending on the person. Be a different story if she shut out Ashe completely or for years not just 1 short year. While Ashe might have been suffering not having Rachael around and caused some trauma for her cause she used Rachael as the one person she can rely on. In my mind Ashe has to realize she fucked up to and Rachael's freak out is understandable and she can't rely on Rachael forever. I think it's a good lesson for Ashe even if it might of been a hard one.
I will say what I heard about her on the cuckqueen path tho that does paint her in a bad light but I separate that version of her from the other 2 paths.
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- Dec 6, 2021
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For what it's worth, I wouldn't say I hate Rachel, I just think it's best for Ashe to let this all go and not pursue any romance with her, just continue being good sisters.
It would be great if Ashe Siren learned self-defense to increase her confidence, but don't forget that in her fiction Ashe is an average girl of short stature, and facing a 2 meter tall woman with more muscle and training is not one of the best ideas.
Believing Ashe would beat her is totally in a power fantasy.
I agree, I vote to consider an alternative reality that has nothing to do with Canon.
- Apr 29, 2023
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I don't think Robin Hobb is a sadist to her characters. They aren't put through their paces just for suffering porn. It's an exploration through painful life experiences, full of wisdom, consideration, and self-enlightenment. The writing transcends the plot.
But it's still a rough read. But an amazing one.
- Apr 29, 2023
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Yeah, can't say you're wrong, but don't really want to engage with that particular theory. I can see how folks get to that view of Rachel, but I'm going to hold off a few updates.
- Apr 29, 2023
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If Ashe wanted to win, she'd have to fight dirty. A stun-gun and prepared restraints would be the base plan I'd expect. A striking or wrestling match isn't going in Ashe's direction without years more training.
- Jun 4, 2018
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That's entirely fine of course, I simply outlined the current theory after all to clarify things, what you do with the information is up to you.
I'm also interested to see what Rachel's story ends up being, simply from the fact that it's hard for me to get a grip on why she's currently written the way she is, so it's hard for me to even guess as to what her endgame/Ashe's endgame with her looks like.
- Apr 29, 2023
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Rachel to me, so far, is potential story. I wonder, 'what if.' But I don't really see myself in her corner, going to the mat for her.
She's intriguing, but also suspect. I'm basically waiting to see what she does next. Because nothing seems clear so far.
- Jun 4, 2018
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Even though I have a more firm-set view on her, I do share your view on her being potential story. Even if I might dislike a character, I'm still interested in the further narrative and how it'll be shaped, and what her potential character growth looks like. After all, stories are the basis of civilization and we've been sharing them ever since we first learned how to communicate, so I usually stick around unless a character truly manages to offend my senses.
- Apr 29, 2023
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Even as much as I dislike Natasha, I'll check out her content on the Kitten path. (would be cool if we can kick her in the junk on the Siren path, but oh well.)
Ie: dislike a character, see how the narrative will be shaped, yadda yadda yaddah.
- Jun 4, 2018
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Yeah I'm doing the same, and I agree that it would be VERY cathartic if we could scramble her eggs so to speak with a well aimed kick.
I will say that Natasha is a bit disappointing to me as she could have been so much more than what she is if that makes sense. It's like she only exists to serve a purpose, and not as an actual character.. which I guess kind of ties into the previous discussion regarding overused stereotypes and whatnot.
Ah well, I guess time will only tell what'll happen.
- Apr 29, 2023
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Agreed. Someone upstream commented how Natasha is basically just a trope, and it's hard to disagree.
I am just playing the siren path then using unren to unlock the rpa files see all the images and read the .rpy files to understand the context of the other paths. I don't think I have the stomach for the other routes.
Oh she is the trope of Built Gym Bro Chad character who is always a rapist. Because those who go to gym always go to become something that would sexually harass women but not for self improvement of their own body or finding a better purpose in working out. No Big gym bros means 80% of time they are perverted and misogynistic garbage. Just like Black characters being the villainous guy cucking the White dude but they are never the protagonist.
- Apr 29, 2023
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I have my personal canon route, then will try out the other content. By the time I try out other routes there's a mental distance for me (might not work for other folk) to view those scenes more dispassionately.
- Jul 25, 2017
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I just wish Natasha was optional on the Kitten path even tho it does makes sense it isn't. After playing both paths and while Siren is my main path Kitten feels way better to me with the interactions of the characters. Vanessa's date / path so far feels so much better to me as a kitten than a Siren. Not only does the Kitten path suit her character better imo but I think Ashe gets to bold to quickly out of nowhere on the Siren path ( Lexi and Vanessa) without any real character growth for it to make sense to me.
Cause yeah I can barley Stomach playing Natasha's path tbh because of how much I dislike her.
I was thinking you know, if Natasha would have been a righteous cop. In their first meeting, she didn't need to sexually harass her, but she would have been strict, warning Ashe that doing drugs would put her in jail and sending her off with a warning without any creepiness. Then lets say, Ashe would have seen her doing Gym, impressed by her body. Accidentally they would be together changing clothes when Ashe eyes would drift as she is naked changing her clothes and Natasha would give a charismatic smile saying something like "See something you like" making Ashe blush.
Then her next meeting would be where they get caught with Elysium. But this time she will get angry and ask Ashe to come with her to police station while asking Rachel to ask Evelyn to get her from prison. And while going she stops the car and genuinely asks shy she is involving herself with drugs. Ashe's silence would make her recognize an underlying trauma and then she will give her phone number to meet in civilian clothes in a coffee store.
And in this point of story their romance arc will start. Natasha will empathize with Ashe, then she will advise on better way in dealing with her demons. She will ask her to attend the gym under her training and she would train her, so that she will feel more confident in herself. She can be the primary mentor of Siren's path. Over time, Ashe will fall in love and their romance will blossom and on one night when they would be together in Natasha's house, Ashe will make the first move and at that point Natasha will reveal the Dom Sub role and in a consensual way Ashe will accept her. Ashe will open up to her about her Duplo situation and Natasha will empathize, perhaps revealing that how her own mother was persecuted for that. She will grow more protective of her, teach her how to protect herself, and they could have hot hardcore consensual scenes while Natasha too teaching Ashe how to the perfect Siren.
But nope Stereotypical Rapist Built Cop.
- Jun 4, 2018
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Damn, this just makes me even more sad that she's only written as a trope, because that would be a much more intriguing way to go about things.