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Alucard421

Member
Aug 5, 2021
231
511
Damn, this just makes me even more sad that she's only written as a trope, because that would be a much more intriguing way to go about things.
Frankly I am tired of tropes in erotica. Like there is this notion that only when you are a dominant rapist or something, you can have hardcore scenes. But somehow consensual scenes can't be hardcore or something. Natasha could have been a dom in a consensual relationship. But she is the big built Gym Bro Rapist Cop Trope. Nothing beyond that.
 
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Ciaran8023

Member
Jun 4, 2018
405
847
Frankly I am tired of tropes in erotica. Like there is this notion that only when you are a dominant rapist or something, you can have hardcore scenes. But somehow consensual scenes can't be hardcore or something. Natasha could have been a dom in a consensual relationship. But she is the big built Gym Bro Rapist Cop Trope. Nothing beyond that.
Which is kind of ironic given that the very notion of dom/sub works better with consent. A rapist simply takes what they want like a complete piece of shit, but a proper dom/sub relationship has the sub willingly give up complete control to the dom, which would enforce submissiveness far more effectively both in narrative and in an erotic scene compared to the rapey doms.

So I really don't understand why that trope exists unless it's solely for a rape fetish, because it's worse at establishing a dom/sub scene compared to one that cares about consent.
 

BDFanZone

Member
Oct 28, 2022
179
90
of all the AVNs I know, the scene between Fiona and Ashe is one of the most beautiful, if not THE most magnificent, a scene of total love...a splendor! I still have tears in my eyes
 
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numoss

Newbie
Sep 18, 2021
22
4
Can you include the cuckquean route in the sub and dom route in later updates, where, for example, in the scene with the mother's date you stand in the room in the dom route and almost squirt on the bed, etc. Or as far as the police officer is concerned, she comes to see us on the red route or something and then we are still in her apartment where we bring out our dominant side but she somehow gets us to suck her cock like in the sub route
 

doovel

Member
Nov 13, 2023
475
717
yeah im 100% with you I will never understand the Rachael hate or saying see is a shitty human. I don't think anything can change my mind on that. I've read some of the post but honestly I skip most of them as they are to much of a wall of text to read after seeing it more than once lol. I can understand a dislike for her but that's it's to me ive seen much worst characters out there , like the cop.

I see her as making a mistake but I also put part of the blame on Ashe as well. ( a smaller amount of it) You can chalk it up to my personality of being too nice of a person or whatever. But I see it as her making a big mistake and she knows it. Not like she is still giving her the cold shoulder or not talking to her after she got the courage to talk to her after everything that happened. She is still making an effort to be a good person and sister otherwise she wouldn't be wanting to help with the blackmail. After all she realized she fucked up she is only human.

I think it's silly personally to hate her and say she is a terrible person over what she did. But dislike is 100% deserved depending on the person. Be a different story if she shut out Ashe completely or for years not just 1 short year. While Ashe might have been suffering not having Rachael around and caused some trauma for her cause she used Rachael as the one person she can rely on. In my mind Ashe has to realize she fucked up to and Rachael's freak out is understandable and she can't rely on Rachael forever. I think it's a good lesson for Ashe even if it might of been a hard one.

I will say what I heard about her on the cuckqueen path tho that does paint her in a bad light but I separate that version of her from the other 2 paths.
I'll ignore the CQ path.

Making a mistake is singular though. It is not a thing you do over an extended period of time. Certainly not a year.

She didn't realise how bad she has fucked up and continues to fuck up. She's only showing care for Ashe when it doesn't affect her at all, if you want to count the blackmail. In all the other scenarios she's only thinking of and acting for herself, you see that with the blow up Ashe has on Bella. As well as Rachel's lacklustre attempt at reconciliation.

She's barely making an effort to be a good person, at least in the story as it stands currently. A year is not a short time to shut out a sibling. Someone who she used to see every day. It's not like there is no reason for Rachel to have react poorly, however she continues to act poorly and also continues to let her friends abuse her sis. When it's clear she's not enjoying it.

Rachel will need to make some massive amends to truly reconcile with Ashe. Meaning she isn't necessarily irredeemable, there is just a lot of work that needs to be done.
 
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doovel

Member
Nov 13, 2023
475
717
Which is kind of ironic given that the very notion of dom/sub works better with consent. A rapist simply takes what they want like a complete piece of shit, but a proper dom/sub relationship has the sub willingly give up complete control to the dom, which would enforce submissiveness far more effectively both in narrative and in an erotic scene compared to the rapey doms.

So I really don't understand why that trope exists unless it's solely for a rape fetish, because it's worse at establishing a dom/sub scene compared to one that cares about consent.
I think it's primarily a lack of understanding. Domming is as much about your sub's pleasure as it is about yours. You don't degrade your sub just for the thrill of it. You do it because it turns them on.
 

Ciaran8023

Member
Jun 4, 2018
405
847
I think it's primarily a lack of understanding. Domming is as much about your sub's pleasure as it is about yours. You don't degrade your sub just for the thrill of it. You do it because it turns them on.
Yeah, that's unfortunately quite common with most current devs it seems, they have a very shallow understanding of certain concepts and then execute them without actually understanding the core of what makes those concepts work.
Though I am always surprised with people who misunderstand dom/sub dynamics because it's taking the very base of a relationship, that of give and take, simply to an extreme level. It isn't hard to understand at all, it's essentially quite simple, just a very focused type of simple.

It kind of makes me question if devs even understand the basis of a romantic relationship to begin with.
 

Dessolos

Devoted Member
Jul 25, 2017
11,832
15,227
I'll ignore the CQ path.

Making a mistake is singular though. It is not a thing you do over an extended period of time. Certainly not a year.

She didn't realise how back she has fucked up and continues to fuck up. She's only showing care for Ashe when it doesn't affect her at all, if you want to count the blackmail. In all the other scenarios she's only thinking of and acting for herself, you see that with the blow up Ashe has on Bella. Rachel's lacklustre attempt at reconciliation.

She's barely making an effort to be a good person, at least in the story as it stands currently. A year is not a short time to shut out a sibling. Someone who she used to see every day. It's not like there is no reason for Rachel to have react poorly, however she continues to act poorly and also continues to let her friends abuse her sis. When it's clear she's not enjoying it.

Rachel will need to make some massive amends to truly reconcile with Ashe. Meaning she isn't necessarily irredeemable, there is just a lot of work that needs to be done.
I get where you are coming from but idk to me it's still one mistake and I do consider 1 year a short amount of time maybe Ashe doesn't but im not able to step foot into a MC only on how I feel personally. For me it wasn't until she got the courage to talk to her she even started to make a attempt to make amends but I never thought she was a bad person for what she did. I just chalked up as 1 big mistake everyone gets one unless it's something extremely bad for me.
 

Hungover00

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2023
1,674
1,900
Yeah, that's unfortunately quite common with most current devs it seems, they have a very shallow understanding of certain concepts and then execute them without actually understanding the core of what makes those concepts work.
Though I am always surprised with people who misunderstand dom/sub dynamics because it's taking the very base of a relationship, that of give and take, simply to an extreme level. It isn't hard to understand at all, it's essentially quite simple, just a very focused type of simple.

It kind of makes me question if devs even understand the basis of a romantic relationship to begin with.
"healthy romantic relationship" is what might be missing in understanding. There's a lot of unhealthy relationships out there, and they may even work. But they could be extremely dysfunctional.

I'm not sure if that saying, "All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way." works for romantic relationships.
 
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Hungover00

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2023
1,674
1,900
I get where you are coming from but idk to me it's still one mistake and I do consider 1 year a short amount of time maybe Ashe doesn't but im not able to step foot into a MC only on how I feel personally. For me it wasn't until she got the courage to talk to her she even started to make a attempt to make amends but I never thought she was a bad person for what she did. I just chalked up as 1 big mistake everyone gets one unless it's something extremely bad for me.
1 year at 18-19 is pretty huge, subjectively. Especially for a twin, and basically leaving things in an adversarial state. Whether she's good, or okay, or not, I hope is yet to come.

I hope it'll work out for them.
 

Ciaran8023

Member
Jun 4, 2018
405
847
"healthy romantic relationship" is what might be missing in understanding. There's a lot of unhealthy relationships out there, and they may even work. But they could be extremely dysfunctional.

I'm not sure if that saying, "All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way." works for romantic relationships.
Yeah you're entirely right about that, I should have worded it better.
Or a lot of them simply have no experience to speak of at all, given that a lot of current games seem to all build very specific and very similar characters to play the "dom" so to speak, so it could be that one dev had experiences with a dysfunctional relationship that may have masqueraded itself as a dom/sub dynamic, and the other devs simply copied that variant.

Regardless of what the reason might be, it definitely is grating to say the least to always encounter the same trope over and over again as a dom/sub dynamic can be incredibly good when done well, even in my eyes even though I don't really care much for it.

1 year at 18-19 is pretty huge, subjectively. Especially for a twin, and basically leaving things in an adversarial state. Whether she's good, or okay, or not, I hope is yet to come.

I hope it'll work out for them.
Also I'd like to second this.
Being betrayed by your twin during your formative years is sure to leave a pretty severe impact both emotionally and psychologically, even non-subjectively, our experiences during our formative years have the most impact on how we turn out as people if we're to follow science aswell.
 

doovel

Member
Nov 13, 2023
475
717
I get where you are coming from but idk to me it's still one mistake and I do consider 1 year a short amount of time maybe Ashe doesn't but im not able to step foot into a MC only on how I feel personally. For me it wasn't until she got the courage to talk to her she even started to make a attempt to make amends but I never thought she was a bad person for what she did. I just chalked up as 1 big mistake everyone gets one unless it's something extremely bad for me.
What I mean is that she's essentially making a long series of mistakes. So if you want to count per day, that's still 365 mistakes. That is 365 times she decided her feeling weird about the situation was more important than resolving the situation.

In reality she likely thought far more than 365 times about her and Ashe. Yet every time she decided not only to not do anything about it, she kept going no-contact with her sister.

and I do consider 1 year a short amount of time maybe Ashe doesn't but im not able to step foot into a MC only on how I feel personally.
That's quite the sentence to essentially say you're really old :KEK:. (I jest)
 

Dessolos

Devoted Member
Jul 25, 2017
11,832
15,227
1 year at 18-19 is pretty huge, subjectively. Especially for a twin, and basically leaving things in an adversarial state. Whether she's good, or okay, or not, I hope is yet to come.

I hope it'll work out for them.
yeah like I said I can't put myself in a MC's shoes so I only go on personal feeling. For me I just count it as 1 big mistake but nothing to hold a grudge over since it's only a year now if it was multiple years different story.

What I mean is that she's essentially making a long series of mistakes. So if you want to count per day, that's still 365 mistakes. That is 365 times she decided her feeling weird about the situation was more important than resolving the situation.

In reality she likely thought far more than 365 times about her and Ashe. Yet every time she decided not only to not do anything about it, she kept going no-contact with her sister.
Yeah for me personally I just count that as 1 mistake for me but I get what you are saying just how I feel and my forgiving personality.
 

doovel

Member
Nov 13, 2023
475
717
yeah like I said I can't put myself in a MC's shoes so I only go on personal feeling. For me I just count it as 1 big mistake but nothing to hold a grudge over since it's only a year now if it was multiple years different story.
I'm guessing you don't have siblings then?

Try to imagine it was someone you were growing up with and they suddenly decided to leave and go no-contact for a year. Someone you saw every day as you were living in the same house. You saw each other at breakfast and at dinner. You watched TV together, you frequently chatted with this person. Had deep conversations. Until suddenly one day they just vanished for 365 days.
 

doovel

Member
Nov 13, 2023
475
717
Yeah for me personally I just count that as 1 mistake for me but I get what you are saying just how I feel and my forgiving personality.
I can be forgiving of someone, even if it's a series of mistakes. Depending on how egregious the mistakes are. However it would require proper reconciliation. Not just one conversation and a hug, I would need to see change and continuous effort from them. So far Rachel's has been low effort. And if you count the CQ version of her, the exact opposite. High effort in completely ruining her sibling.
 

Dessolos

Devoted Member
Jul 25, 2017
11,832
15,227
I'm guessing you don't have siblings then?

Try to imagine it was someone you were growing up with and they suddenly decided to leave and go no-contact for a year. Someone you saw every day as you were living in the same house. You saw each other at breakfast and at dinner. You watched TV together, you frequently chatted with this person. Had deep conversations. Until suddenly one day they just vanished for 365 days.
yeah the best I can do is knowing how I lost contact with some of my good friends after high school because life just goes on and I would be really excited and happy just to talk to them. Which has happened when I did see them message me out of the blue here and there. So I can see myself easily forgiving someone even a sibling if I had one but I can imagine it would fuck someone up but I think if I was a similar situation id still forgive them rather easily cause of my personality. As nothing is worst to me than lost time after losing contact with some of my good friends and I wouldn't want to prolong it.
 
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doovel

Member
Nov 13, 2023
475
717
yeah the best I can do is knowing how I lost contact with some of my good friends after high school because life just goes on and I would be really excited and happy just to talk to them. Which has happened when I did see them message me out of the blue here and there. So I can see myself easily forgiving someone even a sibling if I had one but I can imagine it would fuck someone up but I think if I was a similar situation id still forgive them rather easily cause of my personality. As nothing is worst to me than lost time after losing contact with some of my good friends and I wouldn't want to prolong it.
Sounds like the kitten/CQ path is perfect for you then!

I do have to say I sincerely hope you don't let people walk all over you irl. Virtually forgiving anything and everything is a path to letting people constantly take advantage of you.
 
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