4.40 star(s) 118 Votes

Princess Groundhog

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Nov 5, 2018
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I won’t tell anyone not to play any game, but when the game clearly focuses on things you don’t seem to be into, why would you criticize it for doing what it’s meant to do and hoping it goes the opposite direction? Makes no sense! ‍♀
 
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Princess Groundhog

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Nov 5, 2018
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Also, about control. The game gives you as much control as the author believes is necessary for their story. Not everything can be controlled. That’s not how these games work.
 

genmaximo

Newbie
Jun 20, 2017
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GhostPhil

❤︎The Redhead Harem Master❤︎
Donor
Sep 3, 2018
2,628
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Mine is Isabella giving to Heather her breakfast :coffee:
It was good, but in my opinion it can't compare with the shot I posted. This shot was the best scene in the whole game in my opinion.
 
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darlic

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Feb 27, 2017
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I'm not into this type of games but I can acknowledge a quality game when I play/see it.
So, before I pass on this for good, I want to know: will it be possible for the MC to avoid heavier scenes of humiliation/punishments?
 

Princess Groundhog

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Nov 5, 2018
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I think everyone here agrees that Heather is an angel and perfect in every way from her yummy toes to her gorgeous hair. And the intricate clothing she’s dressing in is so beautiful!
 
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Henissart

Makes Estate : Dominate
Game Developer
Apr 24, 2019
105
597
I'm hoping the "monitoring" path is the one where he's stepping up and protecting the others essentially, that would make sense where he'll speak when it's necessary, do what he can to make sure Anja and Heather aren't put through so much crap, but also not become submissive over it (I honestly saw the spanking as a form of submission where you were submitting to Bella, but speaking up and taking the fall was going against what she was wanting you to do).
I won't go into detail to not spoil anything, but what you write is the general direction for the more 'neutral' character.
Also like your take on the spanking. That's one of the reasons I'm not a huge fan of the way people always try to put everything into neat baskets like 'dom' or 'sub'.
To me, the most interesting aspect of the scenario is that most situations can be several things at once.

I see the neutral path as the one where the MC has the most agency, as in the other two he's still playing the game they want him to. I'd like to see this path leading to the MC out-manipulating the Van Sterns, instead of following expected behavior (either dom or sub). I just hope it gets the same amount of content, in terms of scenes, as the clear cut dom/sub paths. Usually a mixed/neutral path gets the shaft in VNs of this type.
The answer above is also why I have every intention to make the 'neutral' version as comprehensive as the other ones. It will probably be the version of the MC where I have the most freedom to explore different possibilities without always having to adhere to a fairly specific mindset.
 

Henissart

Makes Estate : Dominate
Game Developer
Apr 24, 2019
105
597
Only triggered by how stupid the MC is (and how limited their choices are). I don't mind female or male domination when it is consensual and brings pleasure to both parties ... I am just not a fan of degradation and humiliation imposed on someone who did not ask for it. As for my comments ... as I am actually playing the game ... I think I am allowed to voice my opinion (It's my hissy fit and I will throw one if I want to). It is called diversity of thought (something a forum should be).
It's fine mate, as far as I'm concerned you can voice any criticism you have. The only part of what you've written I think is kinda pointless to discuss is this part:
"I am just not a fan of degradation and humiliation imposed on someone who did not ask for it"
Nothing wrong with not liking that of course, but that is almost a perfect description of the exact thing the game is designed to do, and I assume one of the main reasons people other than myself are into it. So it will obviously not change anyway, and trying to talk about the merits or demerits of the core of a game in a thread for the game will always just lead to pointless arguments.
 

Henissart

Makes Estate : Dominate
Game Developer
Apr 24, 2019
105
597
I think I have to defend you on the issue of variety. I've actually read the entire script and looked at every possible choice for both episodes and how they flowed even from the first episode to the second. (Now I know I missed the tea scene because I was too dominant towards Heather in Episode 1) I don't think you can do much else for variety without seriously impacting the ability to progress the main narrative arc in a timely manner. I think if you truly try to stick to a sort of three pronged approach (four was a lot for the spanking scene) for major scenes with small dialogue differences here and there from past choices within smaller scenes (which I saw you did quite a bit in this update), that is pretty good. Maybe near the very end you can truly branch off with multiple scenarios to let's say for example going from three major possible styles throughout the story (dom/neutral/sub) and those branching off at the very end to maybe 2-3 different ends within each track for 7-9 basic "endings" (with minor variations for each ending within a track) make a lot of sense to end the story, but before that, I think you likely have to stick with varied experiences of similar scenes as the major narrative is too unwieldly otherwise. I don't think you can literally create four different scenes for say four different choices to end an episode. I think that's too difficult.

I do think it would be better to less have pure chatting where the characters are not active somehow, and also a little less introspective self-commentary (I personally actually like this but I feel for your aims commercially it's not the best way to go as a visual medium/game versus say a book) and create scenes with a little more specific action in smaller scenes/moments versus much longer scenes in one setting. Smaller scenes for those with shorter attention spans. I'm saying that as someone where both my wife and I make very good income which are both heavily based on our writing abilities. I think you should ultimately do what you want as the creator of course, but considering the desired and/or intended audience and what likely drives the correct engagement (Patreon) for an optimal revenue model is a smart and key metric to take into heavy consideration. This is a really high quality game, far more potential than all but a few to me (I consider the only two devs right now actually better overall are the Being a DIK/Acting Lessons dev and the City of Broken Dreams/Depraved Awakening? dev) so I really hope you can keep plugging away. My wife is already or is going to be a Patreon for sure because the MC can choose to subtly try and take control while not having total control so at least that track I think works for at least one person. :)
First of all thanks for a really nice post. Not much to add, I agree with just about everything.

Regarding the introspective commentary: (also zh )
Overall, it's part of my style and I won't change it. Since my own interest is mostly in the thoughts of the characters it's also simply a focus of the game.
But how much of it is too much is absolutely up for debate. I think there is a bit too much content in Release 2 where the MC is just watching people. And since the game doesn't contain prose, any scene where he watches someone is filled with nothing but his thoughts. So I guess my solution going forward is to keep his introspection, but have him be in fewer scenes where this is the main thing going on.


I'm not into this type of games but I can acknowledge a quality game when I play/see it.
So, before I pass on this for good, I want to know: will it be possible for the MC to avoid heavier scenes of humiliation/punishments?
Hard to say without knowing what you consider to be heavy. Really niche kinks I try to make avoidable, but it is a game about humiliation front and center. So if you're very sensitive about this I'd say skip it. That said, I think I have a different style than most games in this 'genre', and quite a few people have told me they were surprised to like the game despite being put off by some of the 'tags', so maybe have a look and see for yourself.
 

darlic

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2017
1,892
3,210
Hard to say without knowing what you consider to be heavy. Really niche kinks I try to make avoidable, but it is a game about humiliation front and center. So if you're very sensitive about this I'd say skip it. That said, I think I have a different style than most games in this 'genre', and quite a few people have told me they were surprised to like the game despite being put off by some of the 'tags', so maybe have a look and see for yourself.
Thanks for your answer. My only concern was whether the MC would take passively part of punishments/humiliation scenes or not. If I understood correctly, the answer is positive and that would be unavoidable, most likely.

So I'm afraid I will have to pass, it's a pity because I'm perfectly OK with the rest of the game tags (and to think this game features watersports I'm like... damn it!)

Good luck with your project, by the way :)
 

NanasBananas

Member
Game Developer
Dec 29, 2018
207
689
Well, after the first version I thought this game had potential, but now I'm sold. Just became a patron (lowest tier for now, but I figured every little bit helps, hopefully).

Full disclosure, the reason I'm happy probably has a lot to do with the fact that I love femdom, I got to make a few choices that felt submissive and got a nice spanking at the end, so I'm feeling more confident than ever that I'm on a path to experience some content that I like. Though of course, the reasons I feel like the content should be satisfying has to do with a few more subtleties than just that, so I'll try to list a few of the things I like about the game:

First and foremost, this is really well written. It reads well, it flows well, there's enough suspense to keep things interesting, the right scenes definitely manage to be erotic, the psychological aspects are described well and the emotional responses of the characters are believable enough and track well enough with my own that I can remain engaged. You know, all the stuff needed for writing to be good... The characters are very compelling, I love just about each and every one of them so far... In fact, I think I'll just do a quick rundown of them:

Mrs von Stern:
Wasn't featured so much in this update, but she does have presence. A commanding, authoritative one. Maybe even regal... She's definitely a good mistress of the house. (and I liked that evil smile at the end)

Young Mistress Isabella:
What can I say? I love bitchy sadists... I love that smirk that shows up on their face when they get their way, I love submitting and losing to them, and I love being humiliated by them and having them lord their superiority over me... So far she's been more focused on humiliating Heather than us, but I'm hoping the line near the end that stated she's now looking at us like prey (after being submissive and getting spanked) hinted at possibly getting some more personal attention from her in the future...

Young Mistress Elizabeth:
One of my favorite things is manipulation, especially by (cute) evil characters who masquerade as sweet ones. Can't say with confidence I already have her entirely figured out (not that I'm confident Isabella doesn't have other sides to her as well, I just love her bitchy one...), but I'm definitely getting good vibes from her and the way she can drop suggestions that lead to our ass getting whooped while still maintaining that kind tone and feigned innocence... I'm looking forward to seeing whatever she might be scheming, maybe get played with in a few of her... "games..."

Heather:
Well, she's a real sweet one. And my attraction to her is not just a character choice, it's very real... She is the one that had me most worried about the game, though; to apologetically invoke the Starless reference once again, that game (along with Bible Black and Discipline) was a mixed bag for me because while I enjoyed the femdom when it was being done to me, I found watching the other innocent ladies going through some of those things to be more painful and less gratifying... Of course, I understand that Heather's ordeal is an integral part of the story, and her presence certainly opens up options that I can enjoy (like maybe our caring for her being an exploitable weekness to make us more submissive), and not everything that's painful in a story is necessarily bad (especially when it comes to femdom), but I've just been a bit on edge, especially in the beginning, as to how exactly her part will play out... So far I'm good, I must say... And while I was very much wishing I could trade places with her during the "tea time" event, I have to admit I actually ended up finding it highly erotic the way it is...

I was pleased when I got the choice to align my MC's thoughts with my own, by wishing he could take the punishment for her. I definitely feel protective of her, and I'm hoping we will be able to take some hits for her in the future... I wouldn't mind having tea time (I think I'll spell it Tee Time from now on...) with Isabella myself... And she can still torment Heather by maybe making her watch... Maybe even forcing her to tie us down for it... The focus could be on Isabella showing Heather than the man she looks up to, the one closest to her and the one who should be her protector is pathetic and powerless, nothing more than her bitch... Or it could be on making Heather feel guilty that this is what he has to endure because he wanted to protect her... Or it could even be her trying to make Heather think less of the MC, say by showing her how he gets erect from drinking Isabella's piss, showing her how attracted he is to her bully, how submissive he is towards her... Or it could be any combination of the above...

Ah well, my imagination is running again. Moving on...

Anja:
She's also very sweet, in a perhaps colder, more calculated way. No, colder isn't the right word I think, she's not really cold... She actually seems very caring. While she would never betray the mistresses of the estate and their orders, she does seem to be working hard to ensure our stay there will go as smoothly as possible. And it doesn't seem to just coldly be for the sake of her job, she seems to have both the smooth operation of the estate and the well-being of the MC and Heather on her mind, and I don't feel like the fact that those two might coincide really diminishes at all from her kindheartedness...

She can also be a powerful authority figure, at least towards those who aren't her mistresses. I find myself wanting to please her, both because I want her approval, and also because I feel she's a good person, and if I can somehow make her life just a bit easier that would be nice... Taking the spanking in her place was satisfying on two fronts - I got to experience some very nice femdom from her, and I also got to do the right thing and save someone from needless punishment.


Alright, moving on to the renders - they're absolutely great. I already mentioned how attractive Heather is, but the others are no ugly ducklings either... And the scenes are very well set up. Definitely helps to have good visuals to accompany good writing. I believe the picture of Isabella placing her foot on Heather's lower back during their Tee Time was mentioned as being a compelling image before, and I agree. That one got to me too... It was both subtly erotic and powerful display of domination...

And of course, choices are a crucial part of (almost) any good erotic game. I remember getting a bit distracted during the shaving scene in the last version because it really seemed like there should be a way to get Isabella to win the bet but I couldn't find it... Only after cracking open the code (sorry, I had to know) I realized I just wasn't dominant enough to get that option...

Things felt a bit clearer here. Ultimately, a big part of why I'm satisfied with this release is because I feel like I could steer my MC into where I want him to be, which can probably be summarized as being kind and submissive. Of course, that's a matter of taste, but if we are given options to be helpful to those who need us, and submissive towards those who are pretty and wish to dominate us, I personally should be a happy customer... Of course if those who wish to dominate us tell us to be mean to those who need us things can become a little murkier, but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it...


So uh, yeah, that was a lot of text, but just wanted to say I enjoyed the game, and as a femdom lover this looks like a very promising one. Keep up the good work, and I'll look forward to the next release.

Cheers!
 
Aug 7, 2018
335
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I'm sure this comparison has come up a dozen times already, so I'll try to keep it brief:
This answers the question of "What if Starless, but classy and stylish?".

Not even sure if the pun was intended, but Stern, in addition to being an aptonym, is also german for star. So this literally puts the Star in Starless. It takes a similar setting and character constellation, but develops them in a very different way. The focus here is more on power dynamics, humiliation and erotic tension, which I prefer.

There's many things to like: gorgeous renders, overall pretty good writing, the neutral path is not wishy-washy but seems to be the smarter 'observe, orient, decide, act' route. The game does a good job both showing and telling in which ways you do and especially don't have agency, with Anja being the example of a "neutral path, kindhearted, knows to pick her battles"-type, who otherwise does what she has to (or playing a long con to make MC and Heather lower their guard to crush them much later, at their most vulnerable :p).

The Heather and MC dynamic is adorable. It's worth playing the game for this alone.


Since i had to try a few times to get the alternate egoist/perv/dom version of the shaving scene, here's a quick how to:
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You'll miss the tea party this way, but depending on your follow-up get one of the
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Keep up the great work and stay classy!
 
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Princess Groundhog

Well-Known Member
Nov 5, 2018
1,198
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Agreed, that was beautiful. She is beautiful. And stunning. And gorgeous.

And then the way Elizabeth sees the sexual tension between the siblings right away and begins to slowly exploit it and call it out, in very innocent terms, but it's quite clear what she's doing and she obviously gets off on the idea of making a brother and sister do naughty things to each other.
 
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4.40 star(s) 118 Votes