VN Ren'Py Eternum [v0.7.5 Public] [Caribdis]

[theblasbla]

Spoiler: Your moral dilemma example seems kinda lame to me.

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I had agreed to argue based on the assumption of the child NPC being an actual child since that seemed to be the consensus here, and so would be an appropriate context for an argument. That's how moral dilemmas work, you establish a scenario with set parameters and evaluate decisions based on that scenario.

The actual in-game events clearly present the other player in the wrong, no questions asked. It isn't a moral dilemma. There's a MYSTERY about which NPCs are actually people, of souls, and servers, but the MCs action of shooting the other player is unequivocally presented as being right. There is no moral dilemma.

All those other examples you gave aren't examples of the Dev bringing real world arguments into the game, which is why they aren't virtue signaling, as opposed to the scenario we were discussing which very clearly references common arguments about this subject matter and then putting those arguments in a scenario where they're unequivocally shown as being in the wrong.

 

[sampow]

I had agreed to argue based on the assumption of the child NPC being an actual child since that seemed to be the consensus here, and so would be an appropriate context for an argument. That's how moral dilemmas work, you establish a scenario with set parameters and evaluate decisions based on that scenario.

The actual in-game events clearly present the other player in the wrong, no questions asked. It isn't a moral dilemma. There's a MYSTERY about which NPCs are actually people, of souls, and servers, but the MCs action of shooting the other player is unequivocally presented as being right. There is no moral dilemma.

All those other examples you gave aren't examples of the Dev bringing real world arguments into the game, which is why they aren't virtue signaling, as opposed to the scenario we were discussing which very clearly references common arguments about this subject matter and then putting those arguments in a scenario where they're unequivocally shown as being in the wrong.

I don't know where you're getting your definition of virtue signalling from, but it's not about corralling opposing views to your own into a losing argument to prove you're right (which is what you're saying the dev has done here).

Virtue signalling is purely putting on the public record your moral standing on an issue to convey your own good character.

Giving the player an option to shoot a paedophile in the head (regardless of the paedophile's opinion) isn't virtue signalling.

Posting on twitter (X... ) that you're not buying a copy of Hogwarts because you want to stand in solidarity to with your LGBT friends is a correct example.

I could be wrong, but I just get the impression that you think that perpetrating child abuse in a fantasy environment where there are no victims, should not be considered a bad thing, and you don't like that the dev portrayed it as bad, and rewarded the player for shooting the pedo in the head?

 

[theblasbla]

I don't know where you're getting your definition of virtue signalling from, but it's not about corralling opposing views to your own into a losing argument to prove you're right (which is what you're saying the dev has done here).

Virtue signalling is purely putting on the public record your moral standing on an issue to convey your own good character.

Giving the player an option to shoot a paedophile in the head (regardless of the paedophile's opinion) isn't virtue signalling.

Posting on twitter (X... ) that you're not buying a copy of Hogwarts because you want to stand in solidarity to with your LGBT friends is a correct example.

I could be wrong, but I just get the impression that you think that perpetrating child abuse in a fantasy environment where there are no victims, should not be considered a bad thing, and you don't like that the dev portrayed it as bad, and rewarded the player for shooting the pedo in the head?

I would say that showing the other side of a moral or political argument as being the "bad guys" in a piece of media that you create, which in this instance is done via "corralling opposing views to your own into a losing argument to prove you're right", is a TYPE of virtue signaling. It's akin to making the enemies in your game wear MAGA hats.

If the Dev just didn't add in the valid real world arguments, and left everything else in the scenario the same, then I wouldn't have had any problem with it.

 

[someyoungguy]

It's honestly baffling to see someone stan so hard for a paedophile NPC.

The specific position of "it was wrong to shoot his video game avatar because he didn't know the kid he was trying to abuse might be real" just seems surreal.

 

[theblasbla]

No, that's not the same. A MAGA-affiliated person who is part of the organization due to perceived grievances and anger to the "establishment" and "the social justice-addled society" is not the same as a literal pedophile fulfilling his sexual fantasies in a virtual environment where people can find out what he's doing. You cannot make a "see this from their perspective" argument to this. One is motivated by a possible number of factors while the other is thinking with his loins, full stop. Even convicted felons are repulsed by the latter (so much so that they kill "kiddy diddlers" when they get outed in prison).

And no, Cari is not "virtue signaling." Like sampow said, being provided a choice on the matter - even if one choice basically nets you LI points because said LI has her own moral compass - disqualifies it as "virtue signaling." "Virtue signaling" would be us completely having no choice on the matter at all...or worse, having Orion soapbox for a good few minutes on how morally repugnant the pedophile's actions are and how it's his god-given right to take out scum like him. If anything, the scene is basically just Orion doing right by what his supernatural senses are telling him to do (and what he's destined to become) as well as provide additional lore information as to how the boxes work. That's pretty much it.

Except one choice is clearly being shown as the moral one. If you choose to take the bribe its presented as the MC doing something bad but pragmatic. Him and Alex also DO soapbox about what a terrible person the other player is, regardless of which choice you make. Then IIRC it gets brought up again later just so they can reiterate how horrible the other player is.

Also, no additional information on the boxes was given.

 

[kingadam696]

Spoiler: Scene OST Names

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(PSA: Please don't go to the artist's YT pages of said songs and tell them that you heard this from Eternum as the owners of royalty-free music sites and some artists who don't want their work associated to adult content have been cracking down on AVN devs using said songs (they already gave grief to Ocean - the dev of "Summer's Gone" - and DriftyGames - the dev of "Leap of Faith" - which led them to remove music from their own games). So if you don't want Cari to pull songs out of this VN because some litigious license holder discovered that said song is being used in an AVN, just enjoy the music and as much as possible don't post/leave any sort of comment on YT)

Holy shit, you're a legend. Same for the people who linked the youtube playlist, but thanks specifically for pointing out which are those songs.

 

[Dorfnutter]

Except one choice is clearly being shown as the moral one. If you choose to take the bribe its presented as the MC doing something bad but pragmatic. Him and Alex also DO soapbox about what a terrible person the other player is, regardless of which choice you make. Then IIRC it gets brought up again later just so they can reiterate how horrible the other player is.

Also, no additional information on the boxes was given.

Talking about how they feel sick about the encounter isn't soapboxing. Orion waxing poetic or monologuing when it's obvious that he's talking to the player is (which he hasn't done during the event).

Spoiler: Also, there IS some info about it (albeit in a "blink and you'll miss it" line).

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[Takkatakka]

Except one choice is clearly being shown as the moral one.

Because it is.

 

[Envy*]

I've just got to the end of this version and I already want to see the sequel... frustrating to have to wait, but if it allows me to have a game with a scenario of this quality, I'll wait.

 

[Ellyx]

Except one choice is clearly being shown as the moral one. If you choose to take the bribe its presented as the MC doing something bad but pragmatic. Him and Alex also DO soapbox about what a terrible person the other player is, regardless of which choice you make. Then IIRC it gets brought up again later just so they can reiterate how horrible the other player is.

Also, no additional information on the boxes was given.

As many comments stated before, yes one choice is despicted as bad and it is normal, you (and when I say you it means Orion and you the player) know that this kid is not originally an NPC and was human before so I don't know how someone can feel bad about the fate of the pedophile and choose to accept the bribe.

 

[Takkatakka]

As many comments stated before, yes one choice is despicted as bad and it is normal, you (and when I say you it means Orion and you the player) know that this kid is not originally an NPC and was human before so I don't know how someone can feel bad about the fate of the pedophile and choose to accept the bribe.

It's not even his "fate" it is just his character in a game for him. So he is effectively losing nothing...

 

[ShadowLordV1]

The fuck is happening here the last 2 days.

 

[huangff96]

Does anyone know which game these pics come from?

 

[Love Yandere]

Alex made me insane !!! Zamnnn !!!
P/s: I must say Eternum is the first game i can't choose or rate the best waifu, i'm such a bad guy

 

[Dorfnutter]

Does anyone know which game these pics come from?

OMG WHERE'D YOU GET THOSE LEAKS FROM 0.7 IT'S NOT READY YET!!

(Just kidding. By the looks of it though, someone took some HS2 cards that are close recreations of the characters of Eternum and placed them in their own game or something (since Caribdis hasn't shared those cards yet, guessing he'll do so once the game gets completed just like he did in OIAL). And no, I don't know what game those screenies came from. Where'd you find those, anyway?)

 

[ToadMayn]

Spoiler: Orion is unsure, yes. But the story seems to push the direction that the kid pretty much was.

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Not tryna sidetrack or anything here, but considering the kid was a person before, and therefore excommed...
What heinous shit has the kid done to get served into praetorian hands D:


Actually, on the topic of the flinks being NPCs, it opens up some interesting questions as to how NPCs are designated roles. When a player is excommed and "repurposed" into the game, who... or rather, what set of procedures happen to the bodies before they get added to the "game"? My head's pretty empty on it so I don't know if I wanna delve, but it raises some focal points of interest to the nature of NPCs as a whole. Maybe I'll come back to it some other time.

 

[Elhemeer]

The fuck is happening here the last 2 days. View attachment 2833342

Not enough people have used the "ignore" function ...

 

[ToadMayn]

We don't know when the doppelganger was created. As far as we know the doppelganger could already be alive when Nova received the invitation. I mean, if you had the replicator, the smart thing to do would be to always have an active clone to avoid losing the level and items in case of death.

could be a "per person" thing, meaning that everyone has an individual cooldown

 

[Elhemeer]

Not tryna sidetrack or anything here, but considering the kid was a person before, and therefore excommed...
What heinous shit has the kid done to get served into praetorian hands D:


Actually, on the topic of the flinks being NPCs, it opens up some interesting questions as to how NPCs are designated roles. When a player is excommed and "repurposed" into the game, who... or rather, what set of procedures happen to the bodies before they get added to the "game"? My head's pretty empty on it so I don't know if I wanna delve, but it raises some focal points of interest to the nature of NPCs as a whole. Maybe I'll come back to it some other time.

Spoiler: Where NPCs come from?

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[Ellyx]

Not enough people have used the "ignore" function ...

What a lifechanger it is , discovered it a week ago