VN Ren'Py Abandoned Fallen Roads [v0.2] [Boketto Games]

[clowns234]

The argument that I tried to make is not if she had it coming. The argument I tried to make is that she was going to cheat even if not drugged. That is why some argue that the dev changed the narrative from cheater (V.0.1) to rape victim (V.0.2). The events leading to the scene when she passes out are all in accordance with the cheater scenario, she knew what she was getting herself in the moment she decided to lie to her boyfriend, she saw the writing on the wall and all was going according to plan until she lost consciousness. Your argument is valid as it is indeed rape because she lost consciousness but she was going to do it regardless.

The thing that rubs the wrong way everybody here is that she is the victim of rape by a technicality (and she might get sympathy for that) but it is not a magical reason that erases that she was cheating the MC and it is not a burden that the MC should carry, even if Annie gets pissed about it.

The main points for me are:
She rejected him once they got to the bedroom. If the point was to cheat, why bother?
She was passed out when they showed him undressing next to her. 'I think I'll get naked and jump in bed with this girl who rejected me' doesn't sound like he had good intentions.

At best, we don't know what happened after that until the next morning.

Do you believe having sex with an unconscious woman as being ok? I define that as rape.

 

[Antonie van Leeuwenhoek]

The plan was to send her away. So far, that is still the plan, as far as he is concerned.
But yes, I'm guessing the Dev will come up with some reason to keep her in the story - but we haven't seen what that is yet - or the MC's reaction. Or Annie's.

I don't know if it comes as a surprise for you but she is one of the main two li's in game that means she won't be parted away, this was exactly the reason why the scenario got flipped from obvious cheating to rape (funny story is Yusuf actually confirmed it was consensual cheating somewhere midyear), reason, garner the sympathy make her somewhat likeable and continue, but in that process dev forget to control the pace of the particular scenario as well as the failure to project how much of a emotional response that would generate and what will be the consequences in those cases.

 

[clowns234]

I don't think that Bryce raped Ava. He showed reluctance to go that far through the night. He definitely wanted to fuck her and tried to get her in the mood by slipping her some molly, but I don't think he was willing to go as far as raping her, because he actually liked her. I think Dick probably stripped Ava and took the pic and sent it to the MC after Bryce passed out. Dick was pushing hard for Bryce to fuck Ava by any means necessary and seemed to know exactly why the MC showed up in the morning. I think his motive was to get back at the MC for stopping Dick's relationship with Annie and that is why Annie was so pissed off after hearing Ava's side of the story.

On another note, maybe Annie was hired by the MC's father to bring him to see him, knowing the MC wouldn't come if he asked for him to come. That is why she is being so secretive about the trip.

That would definitely be a twist. Something I could see the Dev doing.

 

[bananabrown]

Lets play: Are you a good girlfriend simulator!

You're in a loving relationship with a man called Leo and everything seems to be going alright for you both.

You get a call from a guy called Bryce who you had/have a crush on, he invites you to his party.

He used to bully your boyfriend and your boyfriend tells you that you shouldn't go plus you have a history of substance abuse hmm.

what do you choose to do?

a) I ignore the invite, what am I a thoughtless bitch?

b) Hell yeah I'm going, my boyfriend needs to grow a pair!

Spoiler: A

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Spoiler: B

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You arrive at the party, everyone you know is there, but not your boyfriend though he wasn't invited (cause of the bullying and all)

You start to mingle at the party and your lady friends start to suggest that you might still have a thing for Bryce.

what do you choose to do?

a) declare your relationship with Leo, you don't want anyone getting the wrong idea

b) Leo hmmm name doesn't ring a bell right now...

Spoiler: A

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Spoiler: B

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The night continues on, you get pretty friendly with Bryce. Dancing grinding and drinking together *confirmed bitch at this point*

Bryce offers you his hand, "let's go upstairs" he whispers hornily.

what do you choose to do?

a) it was just a prank bro

b) gee I wonder what he wants to show me!

Spoiler: A

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Spoiler: B

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You wake up naked in the bed of Bryce with jelly legs. You spot a shocked and bewildered Leo nearby.

what do you choose to do?


a) Leo I messed up! I'm so sorry! I don't expect you to forgive me.

b) it's not what it looks like!

Spoiler: A

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Spoiler: B

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Regardless of if Ava cheated or was raped she's a fucking bitch.

 

[Poser_Voyeur]

Some people like linear stories where the plot progresses smoothly and evenly from one scene to the next. Some people like stories where truth is like the layers of an onion, whose realities get peeled away and exposed one layer at a time.....

An admission - from chapter One I was nt interested sexually in Ava. I had already fallen for Annie. I want MC to have sex with Annie, when Annie is ready. Because I get the sense that all three of the main characters are still dealing with their own individual baggage.

Now at the end of chapter Two, we have Ava who knows everything that happened, at least whilst she was awake and conscious. Annie know whatever Ava has told her. The MC know as much as us players, so not much with the exception of the closing implication that Ava was possibly raped, Until we know more then I am as yet unsure what the impact on ongoing storyline will be.

Now we know that whatever Ava told Annie, it was enough that Annie switched from fully having out back to being angry with us. Now I have no desire to have a sexual relationship with Ava, but I did nt after Chapter One. What I do know is, assuming that Ava told Annie the truth, or at least the truth as far as she remembered it, then AS A FRIEND, I owe it to Ava to be more understanding.

I hope no one has to deal with their mum/sister/aunt/cousin/childhood friend/workmate/neighbour/casual acquaintance being raped. But if that awful thing was to happen, I hope that you would dal with it with far more understanding you have shown to Ava, even as a fictional character. So by all means don't sleep with Ava or pursue a relationship with her. Just be understanding AS A FRIEND.

 

[Mr. Hero]

Whatever man Whatever!
I will never ever take back Ava again in my life, my life is settled with Annie already....and i am looking forward to it!

 

[Deleted member 15555]

I don't think that Bryce raped Ava. He showed reluctance to go that far through the night. He definitely wanted to fuck her and tried to get her in the mood by slipping her some molly, but I don't think he was willing to go as far as raping her, because he actually liked her. I think Dick probably stripped Ava and took the pic and sent it to the MC after Bryce passed out. Dick was pushing hard for Bryce to fuck Ava by any means necessary and seemed to know exactly why the MC showed up in the morning. I think his motive was to get back at the MC for stopping Dick's relationship with Annie and that is why Annie was so pissed off after hearing Ava's side of the story.

On another note, maybe Annie was hired by the MC's father to bring him to see him, knowing the MC wouldn't come if he asked for him to come. That is why she is being so secretive about the trip.

You are missing the fact that Bryce did go upstairs after one of the girls tells him Ava is a heavy sleeper, and he takes off all his clothes before sleeping with her... not only that... He did all of this after she did tell him that she has a boyfriend too.

Makes sense.

It doesn't actually.

 

[ZagorTeNay]

The problem devs have when trying to illicit sympathy in a love interest is what they were doing before the sympathetic act happened.

As far as Ava goes she wasn't in a good spot for sympathy before the potential rape.

It's basically the dev trying to fight for sympathy for a girl that was looked down on as a junkie and also went to a part fully intending to cheat.

There is no sympathy to be found.

As a woman in a relationship it's on me to not put myself in a position that makes my partner uncomfortable which is exactly what she did. I know full well that if I went to a party where people are drugged up and there is a chance of some shit happening that I aint going there.

She not only went but was fully intending to fuck someone else.

Some people know me on here. I have done a lot of ranting defending a devs right to make the game they want and I truly believe that however I am struggling really hard to see where the dev wants this to go.

So far he's painted both LI's in a really bad light. One is a cheat who was heavily into drugs by the sounds of it. I call her a cheat because regardless of whether or not it was rape the intent was to cheat and she put herself in the position to do so. The other is clearly up to something.

As a player who loves romance, I don't get it.

I love that they are going for that emotional kick. Ever since Intertwined and Leap of Faith these games that punch direct to the feels have started taking off and that's great, a good story with purpose is more than welcome but, and I direct this to you dev, please stop making your LI's look bad.

Give us something to work with.

Ehh, they are/were teenagers. People do a lot of stupid shit at that age: drunk, or for under influence of the group ( or both at same time).
I know a couple who went under something similar ( she was raped, and both were kind of messed up: drinking, drugs, bad circle of "close friends"), but it ended up bringing them closer together and made their relationship far stronger in the end.
For Ava, it seems she had a rough childhood and that group ( who obviously didn't like MC) was a bad influence on her ( desperately trying to feel accepted/"to be part of family" is another thing that's typical for kids in that situation).
And from what was mentioned, she knew them a lot longer than MC, who had a positive influence on her and she was turning away from her old habits/her old friends, that she still some ties to. And you can see she was kind of pressured into drinking/getting high by them.
I'm more sympathetic to her after this update, though the "unconscious rape" part is probably unnecessary ( you can simply show she was barely aware what was going on). What ( imo) he should change is Ava willingly going to his bedroom alone with Bryce: unless you're dead drunk ( which she wasn't at the time), you know where that leads.
As for Anne, I think people are reaching it with spinning theories about what her plans are ( she's his long time childhood friend, and something more like a sister).
Biggest issue is dude's haircut/color, that thing would ridiculous even on Italian.

 

[MisterNephilim]

So by all means don't sleep with Ava or pursue a relationship with her. Just be understanding AS A FRIEND.

Again, the problem here is the dissonance between chapters, if the situation unfolded in the correct pace, for sure I bet people here would be very understanding of the situation, but as it stands right now, we go from a third person flashback on Episode 1, with Inner monologues by Ava, and descriptions by the narrator, about everything unfolding on the party and her clear intentions of hooking up with her crush, "Silently nodding along" to go upstairs, to suddenly in Episode 2 the writer trying to course correction to, actually she was under the influence of some convenient drug, that she shouldn't be exposed in the first place had she listened to the MC's warnings in the first place, going to a party with people SHE KNOWS are drug dealers and bad influences that she already admits has/had and the MC was helping her, making the "Understanding her as a friend" very, very, veeeery hard.

 

[KeiNineX]

Just be understanding AS A FRIEND.

The writer made a piss poor job of making me sympathize with her so resentment is all she gets from me.

 

[clowns234]

I don't know if it comes as a surprise for you but she is one of the main two li's in game that means she won't be parted away, this was exactly the reason why the scenario got flipped from obvious cheating to rape (funny story is Yusuf actually confirmed it was consensual cheating somewhere midyear), reason, garner the sympathy make her somewhat likeable and continue, but in that process dev forget to control the pace of the particular scenario as well as the failure to project how much of a emotional response that would generate and what will be the consequences in those cases.

I can only guess what motivates the Dev and his story. I'm trying to only go by what has been presented so far. I have little emotional attachment to the story so far.

 

[NoxLaw]

Now at the end of chapter Two, we have Ava who knows everything that happened, at least whilst she was awake and conscious. Annie know whatever Ava has told her. The MC know as much as us players, so not much with the exception of the closing implication that Ava was possibly raped, Until we know more then I am as yet unsure what the impact on ongoing storyline will be.

Now we know that whatever Ava told Annie, it was enough that Annie switched from fully having out back to being angry with us. Now I have no desire to have a sexual relationship with Ava, but I did nt after Chapter One. What I do know is, assuming that Ava told Annie the truth, or at least the truth as far as she remembered it, then AS A FRIEND, I owe it to Ava to be more understanding.

I hope no one has to deal with their mum/sister/aunt/cousin/childhood friend/workmate/neighbour/casual acquaintance being raped. But if that awful thing was to happen, I hope that you would dal with it with far more understanding you have shown to Ava, even as a fictional character. So by all means don't sleep with Ava or pursue a relationship with her. Just be understanding AS A FRIEND.

So "former" junkie goes to a party where she knows there will be bunch of assholes and everyone doing drugs against her boyfriends wishes who helped her become clean and I'm supposed to feel bad for her? No thanks.

 

[v1900]

The main points for me are:
She rejected him once they got to the bedroom. If the point was to cheat, why bother?
She was passed out when they showed him undressing next to her. 'I think I'll get naked and jump in bed with this girl who rejected me' doesn't sound like he had good intentions.

At best, we don't know what happened after that until the next morning.

Do you believe having sex with an unconscious woman as being ok?

"Do you believe having sex with an unconscious woman as being ok?"

Nope, I don't believe it is ok.

"If the point was to cheat, why bother?"

Again let me reiterate that what I was talking about is the dev making a questionable choice by setting up all the scenario before and after (the dialogue, It is not what it looks like), that tells us she was planning on cheating, she was mate, there is no way around it. But at the last moment the dev tells us that she got confused by wrongly employing Molly as a reason.

What I have said in previous posts is that she (Ava) and women in real life in the same situation are too stupid and problematic to even be bothered with (even if that makes me an asshole). I am not saying it is ok for them to get raped but I would not bother to pursue one as a LI or even a friend.

Making a big assumption about knowing what happened that night. I am inclined to think about two options. She was either raped that night or was raped at a later time between the time jump. If the pepper spry is true and not a ploy by Ava (I think it is true). When a woman is date raped (incapacitated) she is able to tell the next day that she was used in intercourse. So if it was all staged it goes against the pepper spray and it tells us that the rape most have happened later (again I do think it was that night).

 

[ZagorTeNay]

But most people don't accompany cheating junkie of a ex girlfriend who had histories of bad decisions with them after shit load of years and especially those who are overcoming addiction, thats farrrr from reality in any universe.

Yes, they do. Lot of junkies/addicts come from broken families and form very strong ties to their friends ( until their relationships completely fall apart), that keep pulling them in that life, even when they get rid of physical addiction.
One of my favorite books is "We children from Bahnhof Zoo", a young girl that fell into that life, and "humanizes" junkies/tell story from their perspective.

 

[Uthuriel]

Yes, they do. Lot of junkies/addicts come from broken families and form very strong ties to their friends ( until their relationships completely fall apart), that keep pulling them in that life, even when they get rid of physical addiction.
One of my favorite books is "We children from Bahnhof Zoo", a young girl that fell into that life, and "humanizes" junkies/tell story from their perspective.

Wir Kinder vom Bahnhof Zoo is mediocre at best... the movie sucks too...

 

[clowns234]

"Do you believe having sex with an unconscious woman as being ok?"

Nope, I don't believe it is ok.

"If the point was to cheat, why bother?"

Again let me reiterate that what I was talking about is the dev making a questionable choice by setting up all the scenario before and after (the dialogue, It is not what it looks like), that tells us she was planning on cheating, she was mate there is no way around it. But at the last moment the dev tells us that she got confused by wrongly employing Molly as a reason.

What I have said in previous posts is that she (Ava) and women in real life in the same situation are too stupid and problematic to even be bothered with (even if that makes me an asshole). I am not saying it is ok for them to get raped but I would not bother to pursue one as a LI or even a friend.

Making a big assumption about knowing what happened that night. I am inclined to think about two options. She was either raped that night or was raped at a later time between the time jump. If the pepper spry is true and not a ploy by Ava (I think it is true). When a woman is date raped (incapacitated) she is able to tell the next day that she was used in intercourse. So if it was all staged it goes against the pepper spray and it tells us that the rape most have happened later (again I do think it was that night).

FWIW - In real life, I wouldn't take her back as a girlfriend.
Lots of women get raped by 'friends' but never say anything - only for it to come out years later. I knew a guy in high school who was always bragging about the girls he slept with. We all thought he was cool. It wasn't until years later that I found out he forced himself on them. Wouldn't take no for an answer.

 

[PJWhoopie]

There is just too much ambiguity at this point to continue as is...


Antonie van Lee... Said:

...funny story is Yusuf actually confirmed it was consensual cheating somewhere midyear), reason, garner the sympathy make her somewhat likeable and continue,

And that is at the heart of what so many posters here are having an issue with. It seems like everything was going great with the EP 1 release.. and it was generally well received with multiple 5 star ratings.

Then, the DEV "Got Some ideas" on how to "make it better" and went with them, not realizing that we, the players, would scrutinize everything so thoroughly.

As a player, I have to have sympathy for the MC, because... after all, the MC is me...

Annie, who is being sold as our best and longest friend... to some extent, is already emerging as somebody with Ulterior motives and someone who can't be trusted... and after EP 2, I am losing sympathy for her.

Ava, a character that the DEV brought in to maybe add some color/conflict and to help develop the plot, was thrown under the bus, and then the DEV try to salvage her with a lot of implausible dialogue/situation/scenes, and has now totally lost the players/MC's trust.

If that was the intention all along (but I doubt it due to Anotonie's Quote above) then he probably needs to take a pause, step back and maybe get some help/proof reading for concept.

Another choice would be, as a DEV, have a mea culpa and re-release CPT2 with fixes that make it more congruent with Chapt 1. I'd think you'd have some work cut out to get us back on Team Ava...

At this point though, whether she was raped or not is kinda moot. She was a junky who had had a crush on her dealer. She was trying to recover, but went to a party, without her boyfriend, at the house of the former dealer. That is the thing that is hard to get past, and everything that happened there is hard to "unsee" now.

Telling me, "I didn't really see it", is kind of a cop out...

If the renders, atmosphere, etc etc weren't as top notch as they are, I'd have just deleted the game and forgotten about it. But, the DEV has so much potential, that I hope he gets it sorted out.

 

[Antonie van Leeuwenhoek]

You forgot to add the disclaimer
"The following scene happens in fictional world and bears no connection whatsoever with reality"

form very strong ties to their friends ( until their relationships completely fall apart),

If the relationship was strong then bitch wouldn't have cheated behind his back.
And that's exactly what i am talking about, once relationship hits the point/path which no sane person wants them to cross then even God can't make that ex junkie of a person mentally and psychological healthy if the partner alone in crime is still with him/her or going to be.

 

[Raife]

There is just too much ambiguity at this point to continue as is...

I agree that there's a great deal of ambiguity... but some of that could be intentional. I just think it's too early to draw any conclusions about whether the Dev is winging it, or whether this is all part of their larger plot design. We'll see, I guess.

FWIW -- I actually _like_ female LIs with personality defects, dark pasts, and/or ambiguous motivations. It makes them more interesting, dangerous, and a bit harder to win. It adds to the tension, which can be good for a game (of course, if it goes OTT, it can spill disastrously into telenovela territory).

 

[NoxLaw]

She was a junky who had had a crush on her dealer. She was trying to recover, but went to a party, without her boyfriend, at the house of the former dealer.

What he says! Just the fact that she does this is bad enough imo. Then if you add everything together, it's just unsalvageable situation at this point.