VN Ren'Py Abandoned Fallen Roads [v0.2] [Boketto Games]

[constantine]

Maybe Ava did consent to having sex with Bryce, but because she was drugged, Ava felt she was manipulated into it, so it qualifies as rape because she wasn't of sound mind to give consent? So as the MC we have to decide if Ava actually gives consent or not? Annie sides with Ava because she thinks it's rape as well, but does the MC? Or is Ava really just a cheater trying to justify her actions? It's why the whole situation is presented to the player in an ambiguous way, because it's up to us to decide? I don't know. Just trying to unpack the whole situation to make it make sense. But it could be possible?

 

[bananabrown]

The whole Ava situation is messy enough, but there are some things that need real clarification in the next update.

1. Why don't Annie and Ava know each other despite going to the same school at the same time and dating people in the same network of friends?

2. Why didn't Ava tell Leo her side of the story?

3. Why do Dick and Bryce know Leo is there for Ava if they don't know they're dating? If they do know who could have told them that we haven't already met? Not Annie because she doesn't know Ava exists despite the fact everyone else does.

These things seem kind of confusing when thought of in isolation, but when you combine them together and then pile on the two seperate party stories it feels like the story was patched up in an emergency to the detriment of the game.

If next update these things can be clarified in a believable non ass-pull contradictory way, it will go a long way to restoring a little bit of faith I had back in the beginning.

Ava's sympathy story bullshit needs to take a backseat until we can piece together all the gaps created with the latest update.

Then the player has to be given some real agency in decision making when it comes down to Ava, not these surface level apologize don't apologize options that are nothing but fluff for the sink or swim meter.

 

[TheYoungBuck]

To be fair, if it was completely nonconsensual and was indeed rape, I don't know if showing that to us would've been good idea. A lot of people would probably just stop playing if that happened. But it could be stated more clearly through dialogue I guess.

 

[Jack-Atlas]

To be fair, if it was completely nonconsensual and was indeed rape, I don't know if showing that to us would've been good idea. A lot of people would probably just stop playing if that happened. But it could be stated more clearly through dialogue I guess.

I disagree with you on the word "completely" she did enough things leading her to that, completely nonconsensual will be like she was No No and Nooo from the get-go but she wasn't. (don't get me wrong it's still rape)

 

[Canto Forte]

Everyone at the party knows MC, they know he is there to beat up Bryce.
Remember: all we have is their sheer resentment in middleschool and the fact they all
knew Bryce beat MC up, they all encouraged him to do so and they all knew his motivation:
MC has a dad who was supposed to get Dick and Bryce dad to jail.

We know all that, it is non debatable.
We all know Ava saw Bryce beating MC up and was like: WHY IS BRYCE BEATING MC UP?
To which the skanks tell ava: MC STARTED IT. MC HAD IT COMING.
So wa all know they all knew who MC is, who ava is, who annie is:
The skanks tagged her the snitch on day one when MC got beat up.

So .. yes, ava is on Bryce side along with his skanks,
AVA IS OF SAME MIND WIOTH THEM ALL: MC deserved to be beaten every day.

This is why WHEN MC COMES WITH THE MOST REASON TO BEAT BRYCE TO HELL
NOBODY STOPS MC. BRYCE HAD IT COMING 4 YEARS UPON YEARS.

 

[Jack-Atlas]

I wonder how many players went running to that option at the beginning
to just leave her ass on the side of the road just to get even more disappointed that they can't.
that would have been a nice way out from all this shit lol.

 

[NovaPrime]

Maybe she getting fucked wasn't her fault because she was raped but it's her fault that she snuck out for them even thought she knew about history of her boyfriend and them and it was her fault even though she promised she wouldn't drink or smoke she did that by her own free will maybe you guys are right but destruction of her relationship with Leo is on her shoulders only she is the only person to blame because we can't blame bullies for doing that to Leo as once a wise man said "betrayal always comes from family ,friend or loved ones" so no on expected anything better from those guys and girls she snuck out for and fucked but everything was expected of her so doesn't matter in the end all the blame is on her for destroying her healthy relationship and her boyfriends golden years of life so in short she is a whore so i hope we get choice instead having her whore ass forced on us.

 

[AngelsAfterDark]

Was this always the plan?.. To make it rape instead of cheating?.. I mean I don't know man, I recall her kissing or was it dancing inappropriately with that dude before they even went upstairs and when MC walked into that room she sure didn't look like she was forced to do anything, hence why I'm asking if this was always the plan for the story or did the dev decide to change it and make it rape instead

I haven't played chapter 2 yet but honestly I can't really feel sympathy for her.. MC told her not to drink she didn't listen plus she had a thing for that dude in the past and she was getting very physical with him before they went upstairs.. Anyone with a brain and 2 eyes would call bullshit on her rape story.. I know in this case it was rape but still she knew what she was doing so she's not all that innocent..feel free to correct me if I'm wrong

Also I think you setting this game up for failure if you not gonna allow the player to decide if they want Ava to feck off or not... Lol alot of people seem to not like her, maybe the rape thing was your way of making her less hated but I highly doubt it worked, people still dislike her with good reason so hopefully we won't be forced to keep her around if we don't want to.. Im not saying get rid of her, I'm simply saying give us an option to get rid of her

 

[CheeseNinja009]

Well, that was something. The "Ava got raped" thing seems kinda off because of what the scenes portray at the end of chapter 1. Personally, I would have been okay with Ava cheating on MC wherein by fate she'll get a chance to redeem herself. Too many questions and this chapter only added more. I guess I'll wait again for Chapter 3 to maybe get some answers.

I like the receptionist/barista girl, I hope I'll see more of her in the future (though too unlikely).

 

[Cena2001]

What will happen in the end when we found was not raped (the guy whom mc beat) didn't even touched her

Just like we see in others game where Developers first create this kind of situation but it the end it's totally different story
Just like leap of faith

 

[Canto Forte]

The creep rape drugged her, he was left alone by his clique to get what he deserved.
It is the way of the bulli - you only matter as long as you are strong.
MC was Riddick in that scene, he could have ruled them all!
Alas ...

Please, if anyone has doubts about what happened at the party, watch those scenes again. She climbs the stairs to an area with no one with Bryce perfectly knowing what she is doing. And it is quite clear what they are going for. She is smiling and happy. Neither forced nor asleep or anything like that. Can anyone think that they went up to read a book or chat? Then also the stupid drugged her? It may be, but it wasn't necessary, she knew exactly what they were going for. Now they have turned into rape what would have happened voluntarily anyway. And in that voluntariness is the deception she was doing to the groom. Anything else is entangled to be entangled

It would have been better for her to confess that she was going because it was a kind of pending issue that she wanted to go through and forget and then focus on life with her boyfriend without having to stay with that unknown for the rest of her life

View attachment 1449061
And from there try to rebuild the relationship. Like this now it is impossible to get involved in this game because it sounds totally false

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What will happen in the end when we found was not raped (the guy whom mc beat) didn't even touched her

Just like we see in others game where Developers first create this kind of situation but it the end it's totally different story
Just like leap of faith

 

[PJWhoopie]

WE KNOW NOTHING about their feelings about those events

Correct, we don't "Know" their feelings...
But don't forget, its a VISUAL novel. So we get pictures, and some dialogue, that help tell the story.
So what we see, from the story, and what we are told through the dialogue lets us make our own conclusions about what happens on the screen, and what happens off the screen that we are to infer.

So "WE KNOW NOTHING about their feelings" is kind of moot.

Much like a jury in a courtroom, WE KNOW NOTHING about the defendants feelings, but it doesn't really matter, the prosecutor provides evidence about WHAT IS KNOWN to have happened, and the jury then makes a decision about the facts presented, to levy a verdict.

In this case, we the players are the jury. The DEV has presented his evidence (Ep 1) and the Jury found AVA guilty of bad judgment and cheating. The DEV didn't like the jury's decision, so he had a "do over" (EP2) and called an additional witness (AVA) to try to sway the jury's opinion.
The problem is, the Jury sees Ava as an unreliable witness. The facts didn't change (what we saw in Ep 1), and her story doesn't add up.
To make it worse, EP 2 has also called into question the testimony of Witness #1, Annie, and at best, its a hung jury over whether she is reliable or not.

We know that the MC learned to protect himself and kicked the crap out of his bullies.

Do we know this? I could be wrong, but I thought that the MC was winning that fight until a friend of Bryce attacked the MC from behind, with the result in the MC getting his ass beat again.

The DEV must see the train going off the rails here, as they have chimed in. It sounds like he admits to leaving out stuff that he should have included... maybe so. But, as others have already said, a pretty good case has been made for at least one of the main characters being a f'kd up shit bag. Now, dispersion is being cast on the remaining non-mc main character.

I am generalizing here now, but I think that a good portion of the players would be less picky if this was a straight up Kinetic Novel. By trying to be a VN with choices, and then forcing players to make bad choices... with the only reasoning being "mental issues", that is the hard pill for players to swallow.

 

[Ragnar]

Imagine Chapter 3 reveals Ava jumping Bryce bones willingly at the party all night long
This game tone is very dramatic since the start. At the beginning we have even a warning about it.

Spoiler

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It looks like some players want a vanilla story and this doesn't look like that at all. So better prepare yourself for the worst.
If the dev wants to tell a dark story that's their choice, you can play it or don't but don't act surprised if shit happens.

 

[Topper420]

Is this game really just the darkest timeline of "My Bully is my Lover" hmmmmmmm

 

[Qoo-Rilla]

If DEV says ....

"
Everything that's happened so far, was always part of the plan. I'm never going to change my vision just to appease people, I fucking despise that prospect. The only thing I've realized is a bit of pacing, and leaving some of the scenes for interpretation, is causing a lot of confusion. I acknowledge that if I was an outsider, I may have been a bit confused on some things as well. But since I'm the creator, obviously I understand it's easier for me to see the bigger picture. All that said, chapter 3 should answer some of your questions in a more clear fashion. I hope so at least.

P.S. I cut out an entire scene in chapter 2 because I thought people wouldn't need it. But, now I'll most likely add it in chapter 3. It would've helped make things more clear if I had left it in. "

I call this bullshit. This would have been told in a completely different way if everything had been planned this way. So I claim DEV went into a little panic here when everyone lynched his vision and he was forced to do an emergency fix as well as turn cheating into rape or something. Now the shit is already in his pants and nothing saves Ava from the players' anger and the fact that they want her out of the game. So it would be better for the future if Ava's story ended as soon as possible, then maybe the rest of the game's story would move better. I point out that anger only grows if things are done by force, as DEV said earlier, that shit hangs up to the end involved even if you put them ignored. There are so many flaws in this story that it is essentially the only chance to make it forced on us players. For many, it can lead to players abandoning the game. If Ava alone were to be ignored, so that it would end the story if the player so wanted and the story continued with Annie alone and the other sidewomen, then maybe this would still be saved.

DEV has made one bad mistake, which is to underestimate the players. We don’t swallow all the shit that someone tries to tell in a story and if it’s still told quite full of mistakes, then correcting these may be just one option for rewriting. At the same time, thinking about the backgrounds of the characters, as has been shown many times here, there are bad contradictions in the backgrounds of the characters. This would help if part of the backgrounds were removed completely, then a large part of the errors would disappear at the same time. As this story is now, there is no point in this and MC is intellectually like a collision doll when the story really hasn’t been thought through.

 

[Chimba]

Now the shit is already in his pants and nothing saves Ava from the players' anger and the fact that they want her out of the game. So it would be better for the future if Ava's story ended as soon as possible, then maybe the rest of the game's story would move better. I point out that anger only grows if things are done by force, as DEV said earlier, that shit hangs up to the end involved even if you put them ignored.

He does not have to remove Ava from the scene, it is his story, but he must give the player the option to leave her aside or follow her the same thing happens with Annie, this game surely (and apparently so far) is mainly about Ava and Annie, the problem with this is that the player has to bear in mind that the updates will be short if one decides not to romantically pursue or just make friends with one of them, (for example if an update contains 400 renders and 200 involve Ava and one does not want to know anything about her, the wait is long for little content and the biggest problem with that is, at this moment the only 2 Li "or friends" that appear in the story are a "No" for many and surely does not motivate to play it).
I, like many others, believe that update v.0.3 is going to be the turning point to make a decision, whether one wants to play the game or simply put it aside.

 

[clowns234]

...but he must give the player the option...

I don't see the Dev providing a lot of alternate routes. And I don't think that will be the 'kiss of death' that some here have suggested.

 

[Ursus4321]

Please, if anyone has doubts about what happened at the party, rewatch those scenes. She goes upstairs to an area where no one with Bryce knows exactly what she's doing. And it's pretty clear what they are targeting. She is smiling and happy. Not forced or asleep or anything like that. Can anyone think that they went up to read a book or chat? So the stupid also drugged her? It may be, but it was not necessary, he knew exactly what they were heading for. Now they have turned into rape what would have happened voluntarily anyway. And in that voluntariness is the deception she was doing to the boyfriend. Anything else is entangled to be entangled

It would have been better for her to confess that she was leaving because it was a kind of pending issue that she wanted to go through and forget and then focus on life with her boyfriend without having to stay with that unknown for the rest of her life.


And from there he tries to rebuild the relationship. So now it is impossible to get involved in this game because it sounds totally false

 

[AngelsAfterDark]

If DEV says ....

"
Everything that's happened so far, was always part of the plan. I'm never going to change my vision just to appease people, I fucking despise that prospect. The only thing I've realized is a bit of pacing, and leaving some of the scenes for interpretation, is causing a lot of confusion. I acknowledge that if I was an outsider, I may have been a bit confused on some things as well. But since I'm the creator, obviously I understand it's easier for me to see the bigger picture. All that said, chapter 3 should answer some of your questions in a more clear fashion. I hope so at least.

P.S. I cut out an entire scene in chapter 2 because I thought people wouldn't need it. But, now I'll most likely add it in chapter 3. It would've helped make things more clear if I had left it in. "

I call this bullshit. This would have been told in a completely different way if everything had been planned this way. So I claim DEV went into a little panic here when everyone lynched his vision and he was forced to do an emergency fix as well as turn cheating into rape or something. Now the shit is already in his pants and nothing saves Ava from the players' anger and the fact that they want her out of the game. So it would be better for the future if Ava's story ended as soon as possible, then maybe the rest of the game's story would move better. I point out that anger only grows if things are done by force, as DEV said earlier, that shit hangs up to the end involved even if you put them ignored. There are so many flaws in this story that it is essentially the only chance to make it forced on us players. For many, it can lead to players abandoning the game. If Ava alone were to be ignored, so that it would end the story if the player so wanted and the story continued with Annie alone and the other sidewomen, then maybe this would still be saved.

DEV has made one bad mistake, which is to underestimate the players. We don’t swallow all the shit that someone tries to tell in a story and if it’s still told quite full of mistakes, then correcting these may be just one option for rewriting. At the same time, thinking about the backgrounds of the characters, as has been shown many times here, there are bad contradictions in the backgrounds of the characters. This would help if part of the backgrounds were removed completely, then a large part of the errors would disappear at the same time. As this story is now, there is no point in this and MC is intellectually like a collision doll when the story really hasn’t been thought through.

I think to make any of this work Yusuf will have to go back and change some stuff in episode 1
Mainly Avas behavior, she seemed waay too inviting at that party rather than someone who was loyal.
Or perhaps show us a detailed scene of what actually happend at that party. for example before Ava and that dude goes upstairs show us a conversation between them to ensure players of Ava's loyalty. Like have him ask her to come up stairs with him for a chat, have Ava decline telling him she has a boyfriend and that she should probably go home cause she had a few drinks too many, then he should say something like "oh no Ava I'm sorry if you thought I was making a move, I actually just wanted to chat and I'm glad you found a guy but seriously I just wanna catch up with you, I'll even take you home after that" in her drunken state she agrees thinking they were just going up for an innocent chat but instead the dude drugs her and rapes her. Also her dancing with him the way she did needs to be removed, that alone makes one question her loyalty lol

I dont know bruh, like literally anything that proves she's innocent cause her behavior at the party and what she said happened does not add up. she'll continue being hated on by the players cause no matter what she says, we saw how she behaved at the party and not once did she come off as "loyal" even when she was sober.
Unless this is all part of the long term plan to make her a liar and cheater then yeah the current story works but if you plan on making her loyal and not a cheater then changes needs to be made. You can't feed us this bullshit rape story in Chapter 2 while in chapter 1 she seemed rather willing.. Players won't buy that shit

 

[exazubi]

Honestly I'm not that big on Vanilla story games, I like some dark twists that'll get you emotionally invested.. And frankly I don't really care much whether Ava cheated on MC or not, whether she really was rapped or if it's just a BS cover up.. All I want is to have control over MCs behavior and not be forced into anything , that's literally all I'm asking for....infact that's all I'm asking for in this game, for the dev to give us free control over how MC response to shit and what he chooses to do or say, nobody likes a vn where you just force to do shit u don't wanna do.. If WE allowed to have that control then I say bring on the DARKNESS!!

That is the dramatic prehistory. And our involvement as players only begins afterwards. Okay, the MC was an idiot in the past who didn't listen to his girlfriend when she needed him the most. We can only guess what happened to his life afterwards. But doesn't look good so far. But that's what it does. The game begins afterwards. And we get the chance to do better. Of course, history now makes it particularly difficult for us to choose another woman than the ex. Still, there are options. But i also love stories like that. Finally something that has not been seen a thousand times in other games. It doesn't look like a planned harem game to me.

I also have to say that I know the emotional state of the MC. My wife today has also experienced abuse in the past.
Okay, she didn't know me then. We met years later. I tell you, it was hard work getting her out of her shell. But it was worth it. Today we are married and poarents of 2 children.

So if you want the date the ex, prepare for a dramatic, long fight to win her back.