VN Ren'Py Abandoned Fallen Roads [v0.2] [Boketto Games]

3.70 star(s) 32 Votes

NoxLaw

Member
Nov 11, 2020
246
1,506
Can you explain the circumstance for why? From what I read the mc's bully rapes his love interest, and other characters sexually harass mc's lis.
It just didn't feel like ntr to me. Maybe it's because it's really early in the game, it's a flashback and the "LI" becomes instantly unlikeable so I just didn't care. But yeah, she gets raped/cheats on MC or both, we still don't know.
 
  • Like
  • Thinking Face
Reactions: Grelk and v1900

KingWeWuz

Well-Known Member
Mar 8, 2019
1,186
3,640
It just didn't feel like ntr to me. Maybe it's because it's really early in the game, it's a flashback and the "LI" becomes instantly unlikeable so I just didn't care. But yeah, she gets raped/cheats on MC or both, we still don't know.
Either way seems like a 100% deserved tag.
 

clowns234

Engaged Member
Game Developer
May 2, 2021
3,081
4,810
NoxLaw said:
It just didn't feel like ntr to me. Maybe it's because it's really early in the game, it's a flashback and the "LI" becomes instantly unlikeable so I just didn't care. But yeah, she gets raped/cheats on MC or both, we still don't know.

Either way seems like a 100% deserved tag.
It meets the definition this site uses. MC feels jealousy because of his girlfriend's involvement with another guy. Whether it was consensual or not, he thought she cheated.
For tags to have meaning, they should be applied appropriately.
 
  • Like
  • Thinking Face
Reactions: PJWhoopie and v1900

Norman Knight

Active Member
Jul 6, 2018
503
2,292
Can you explain the circumstance for why? From what I read the mc's bully rapes his love interest, and other characters sexually harass mc's lis.
In the first chapter the girlfriend of the MC was shown cheating with the bully, there was drinking, dancing, etc, he told her to go upstairs with him and she did.

Now in the second chapter that was sort of retconned and now she was apparently drugged and raped, we don't have a definite answer on what exactly happened, but most people seem to agree that the rape was added to try and redeem the character in the eyes of the players, it's... ugm..... not working, at all.

My guess is that the tag is not there because the situation is not clear, if she did cheated, then the tag needs to be there, if she was raped, then the tag doesn't fit here, rape is not the same as NTR.
 
  • Like
Reactions: KingWeWuz

eddie987

Well-Known Member
Dec 5, 2018
1,527
6,966
Either way seems like a 100% deserved tag.
You're not wrong, but we still don't know for sure what happened that night. In the first release it looked like she cheated, in the second like she was raped (and the dev completely forgot what he showed us before...), so in the next one we might find out it wasn't actually her, but her long lost twin sister...
 

KingWeWuz

Well-Known Member
Mar 8, 2019
1,186
3,640
In the first chapter the girlfriend of the MC was shown cheating with the bully, there was drinking, dancing, etc, he told her to go upstairs with him and she did.

Now in the second chapter that was sort of retconned and now she was apparently drugged and raped, we don't have a definite answer on what exactly happened, but most people seem to agree that the rape was added to try and redeem the character in the eyes of the players, it's... ugm..... not working, at all.

My guess is that the tag is not there because the situation is not clear, if she did cheated, then the tag needs to be there, if she was raped, then the tag doesn't fit here, rape is not the same as NTR.
1634079875912.png
Type C ntr is rape ntr. Sam gave the greenlight to tag rape ntr as ntr.

The only way it isn't ntr at this point is if the dev retcons the mc's jealousy and just implies the mc doesn't give a shit. Maybe they were swingers or something.
 

clowns234

Engaged Member
Game Developer
May 2, 2021
3,081
4,810
  • NTR [Designed to cause jealousy by having the romantic interest involved with someone other than the MC.]
Was the scene designed to cause the MC jealously? Yes
Was Ava his romantic interest at the time? Yes
Was there involvement with someone other than the MC? Yes
Usually, I'm on the other side of this argument.
 

Norman Knight

Active Member
Jul 6, 2018
503
2,292
View attachment 1450022
Type C ntr is rape ntr. Sam gave the greenlight to tag rape ntr as ntr.
  • NTR [Designed to cause jealousy by having the romantic interest involved with someone other than the MC.]
Was the scene designed to cause the MC jealously? Yes
Was Ava his romantic interest at the time? Yes
Was there involvement with someone other than the MC? Yes
I guess the tag is missing then, someone should report that.
 

sdawg1234

Member
Dec 1, 2019
266
417
I guess I'll wait for ch.3 to decide on this one. Right now both girls don't feel like LIs and really not sure where we're going with the story. One girl is an ex girlfriend who went to a party and the relationship ended. The second girl is somewhat a friend who hardly has been in the life of the MC and we've seen very little as to why they are no longer close or why she needed him on this trip.

For Ava it's still unclear what happened based on both chapters and honestly I'm starting not to even care. If she was raped well we beat the rapist and if she didn't well we beat the guy she cheating on us with. So I'm ready to move on. I can see her being a friend but LI no too much distrust. I would help her move on but since I'm depressed I don't see how I could other than telling her it's in the past.

For Annie we know nothing other than she's in some type of financial trouble and this trip will supposedly solve it. She won't tell us why or what she's up. She gets a little pass as I'm not sure why their friendship fell apart but she still seems a little sus to me.

So far not much romance and a lot of questions that I hope get answered in the next update, if not I move on and just believe MC returned and lived life as he was but with a fling with Lisa.
 

Skylaroo

Well-Known Member
May 28, 2017
1,760
4,607
Finally managed to try this out after hearing good things about it, but I'm not quite sure yet what to think of about the game so far. It still feels like in prologue so it's too early to call, but it definitely feels awkward that the mom at grocery store introduced herself as Lisa Marsh, then MC kept her number as Unknown Number, which is then followed by the mom now saying her name is Mary. Of course things can change during development, but it's a little bizarre that there's already an inconsistency with something as minor as the (side) character's name.
 

Topper420

Newbie
Nov 4, 2019
34
100
Anyways
Is Mc's mom Dead??
That seems to be implicated, if I remember correctly there is a line somewhere about him losing two people. Sam was one, some people might have thought the loss of Ava as a gf was the other, but how ever you feel about her, their relationship was only 3-4 months old, I don't think he was deep enough in that to still be thinking about it years later.

Speaking of years later, I think another thing that fucks up this VN is the timeline of events seems super confusing.
 

PJWhoopie

Member
May 14, 2019
356
707
So substitute your preferred date rape drug, instead of Molly, because the dev clearly intended the drug to have that effect.
UncleFredo...
This lies at the heart of the problem we are having with the VN so far. We shouldn't have to substitute anything for what the DEV meant... we can plainly see, read, hear what is there. If it wasn't meant, then... do some freakin research. We don't play games on what was meant, we play them with what is available.

It's not because the characters have complicated lives and we are too immature to deal with it. Its not because we just want games where we bang waifu and chuckle with buddies about it. Its not because the story is over our heads and we are missing the details.

Its because the details and facts that are laid out, that we read and see with our own eyes, lead us to logical conclusions that are in-congruent with where the Dev wants us to be. And to this point, there are no logical choices given to the MC to make regarding how fucked up the situation is. = Kinetic Novel

He has said himself, that if he was an Outsider, without his vision of where the game was going, he could see how we all could be confused. Or put another way, Yusef is saying, "If I was a player and not the developer, I'd be bitching about how it was laid out too."

You can't have a scene with a character driving down the road at 12:00 Noon on a bright sunny day and get in an accident, and then in the next chapter, have a character recall the accident and tell us it was 11:00 PM at night during a torrential downpour. Those don't add up. Somebody is lying....

In EP 1, we see the whole party laid out in front of us. It's NOT being told by the MC's perspective, its not Bryces' perspective, Or AVA's or anyone else. The DEV is showing us the party 3rd person, so we have to accept what we see, what we read, what we hear as fact.

*Now, I am of the camp that would say Ava has already fucked up by even going to the party... I mean really, how would we react if our significant other went to a party, hosted by her former drug dealer, where everyone their has either bullied us or just hates our guts for various reasons?*

Now EP2 Shows up, and we get "Ava's" Perspective. But, as said earlier, Ava is an unreliable witness, so there is a bit of 3rd Person stuff added... to try to change our opinion of her?

EP1 AVA - "I told Stu that I'd try to avoid drinking and smoking as much as I could... Don't wanna relapse"
Turns into Drinking hard, Smoking (Weed... with who knows what in it?)

EP1 AVA - Bumping and Grinding... literally dick to butt with Bryce on the dance floor

EP1 "Ava and Bryce are both hammered as they stare into eachother's (sic) eyes.
EP1 "AVA SILENTLY AGREES WITH A SUBLTE NOD AND GRABS BRYCE"S HAND
View attachment 2021-10-13 08_00_22-Fallen Roads - Chapter 2_resize.webp
AVA IS AGREEING TO WHAT EXACTLY???? Oh yea, lets go upstairs and fuck!

EP1 AVA and Bryce are seen, using at least two renders, going up the stairs, hand and hand... not struggling or stumbling... but walking upstairs hand and hand with an INTENT known to everybody at the party. WE ARE GOING UPSTAIRS TO FUCK!
View attachment 2021-10-13 08_00_47-Fallen Roads - Chapter 2_resize.webp

So we see and read AVA make her own choices here. She knows the kind of party she is going to and who is going to be there.
She knows that her BF doesn't want her to go overboard (but again, would anybody in a committed relationship go this far?)
She gets drunk and high and grinds on a crush. Looks longingly into his eyes and goes upstairs to a bedroom. She knows its Bryce, She knows what she is doing and where she is going, and what the intent is.

The MC gets at least 3 calls during the night, and at 3:43 AM, he wakes up and checks his phone. We don't know what he receives, or who it is from (unknown caller) but it would be a safe bet that the MC wouldn't have anyone who attends THAT party's phone number on his phone.
*SO somebody at that party is still Fucking with the MC... enough to send him some information about Ava and Bryce anyway.*

He arrives at the House where the party is dispersing. Not sure what time but it is daylight outside. Most of the other folks who attended are up and moving around/leaving. We know that Ava's house is some distance from the party (Said so by Bryce to convince her to stay the night) but we don't know the MC's proximity to the Party House.

He is greeted by Natasha, Dick and Josh. Dick says:
View attachment 2021-10-13 08_01_35-Fallen Roads - Chapter 2_resize.webp
Then Josh Tells the MC, If you are looking for Ava, she's Upstairs

As has been pointed out, Nobody is supposed to know that Ava and MC are dating...

MC then goes upstairs to find HIS GIRLFRIEND naked, in the bed of a mortal enemy.
View attachment 2021-10-13 08_04_24-Fallen Roads - Chapter 2_resize.webp
This is followed with
AVA - "Its not what it looks like"

This next one is pretty rich...
View attachment 2021-10-13 08_04_51-Fallen Roads - Chapter 2_resize.webp
Really? You can explain LATER?
WTF - why not explaining it to me now bitch, while you are naked in this asshats bed?
Later cause you are too embarrassed to explain what happened in front of the person you did it with who could confirm or deny your lies?
Later because you don't want your chances of getting drugs from your last night hook-up ruined?
Later because you need to come up with a plausible story?

If you got something to say, say it. If you were raped tell me now! Now is your opportunity!

And then, of course, the beating of Bryce Commences.

EP2
Now this told through AVA's point of view.... but it is kind of messed up as it is sprinkled with some renders/images that would not be "know-able" to AVA
In Ava's version, she is drunk and staggering up to the room... but wait, did she tell Annie/MC, yeah, I was going to fuck him, we were heading to the room, but I was really drunk and stumbled a bit on the way up?
Or is this 3rd person stuff to help correct EP1's version?
View attachment 2021-10-13 08_12_42-Fallen Roads - Chapter 2_resize.webp
Interesting too
When she does trip, Bryce catchers her, and she says:
View attachment 2021-10-13 08_13_06-Fallen Roads - Chapter 2_resize.webp
Why would she call him Romeo... Hmmmm... Romeo would be a romantic pet name. One you might use with somebody before you let him fuck you silly...
But did she tell Annie/MC this in "her version of the story"? Yeah, and on my way to fuck Bryce, I tripped, fell and he caught me. I was so impressed by his Quick Reflexes (though drunk) that I said, "Thanks for the Catch ROMEO".
Or, is that 3rd Person info?

The next bit is the sequence of Bryce fondling and kissing.... with Ava Consent.
View attachment 2021-10-13 08_14_14-Fallen Roads - Chapter 2_resize.webp
She then calls him [Pname] and seems to snap out of it and tells Bryce she can't do this, and that she is dating [Pname]

So... what did she actually tell Annie/MC?
"I went upstairs to Fuck Bryce, stumbled a bit because I was drunk, but you know that Romeo Bryce, he caught me thankfully! We get in the room, and I was enjoying the buzz from all the drugs and alcohol I had been consuming... and then we started making out... Funny thing, he was kissing me and fondling me JUST LIKE [Pname] does! As a matter of fact, it was so much like [Pname]'s moves that I actually called "Bryce" [Pname]. That is when I kind of snapped out of it. I am not saying the Drugs wore off or anything... cause after that, I got a bit sick and decided not to go home to the folks that love me and would actually protect me... I'll just pass out right here in the Land of Douche bag rapist... "
Oh, don't forget, I am a heavy sleeper... So when the sun comes crashing through these giant windows in the morning, and everybody else in the house is up and moving around, I'll still be sound asleep. Just don't say my name as that will wake me up instantly!"

Again, what does Ava Say?
OR is this more 3rd Person stuff to correct our EP1 impression?

When Bryce goes downstairs, EVERYTHING from this point on is 3rd Person Perspective. AVA would have no knowledge. She wouldn't have knowledge of getting mollied (or seeing Bryce Spike her drink).
She wouldn't know that when Bryce got downstairs, Natasha would say:
View attachment 2021-10-13 08_16_13-Fallen Roads - Chapter 2_resize.webp
Which just proves that point that EVERY BODY AT THAT PARTY knew Bryce and Ava were going upstairs to fuck. She can deny it all she wants. But the facts are:
She went to a party she shouldn't have
She made a choice to drink and do drugs though she knows it would upset her boyfriend
She Made a choice dance suggestively with Bryce... enough that they BOTH agreed to go upstairs to fuck
She made a choice to do it in front of everybody so that they would know what was happening/going to happen
She made a choice to stay the night... in the era of Uber or a boyfriend who would have immediately come to get her

Now some could say we didn't see these things unfold. You could muddy the waters with unclear renders or "what I really meant was...."

But at the end of the day, players have to make their own choice as to how to perceive Ava.
Not only that, but our on again off again BFF Annie may have been tainted by Ava as well.

There has got to be one hell of a redeptive path ahead of us.... otherwise, we, as players are going to be stuck in a car making decisions we don't want to make, concerning characters that we will quickly loose empathy for.
 
Last edited:

PJWhoopie

Member
May 14, 2019
356
707
Last Bit...
And I swear I won't post on this thread for another week.

If what we saw in EP1 and EP2 ARE BOTH CORRECT....

That means Ava is the BIGGEST fucking Sociopath in the history of VNs. And, I'll doff my floppy hat to the DEV for going that route.

BUT IF THAT IS the case, for Crying out loud, give us meaningful choices in dealing with her!
I mean seriously, I wanna freakin go on that bitch, every night, for the rest of the trip.
 

TheYoungBuck

Newbie
Oct 10, 2021
41
35
UncleFredo...
This lies at the heart of the problem we are having with the VN so far. We shouldn't have to substitute anything for what the DEV meant... we can plainly see, read, hear what is there. If it wasn't meant, then... do some freakin research. We don't play games on what was meant, we play them with what is available.

It's not because the characters have complicated lives and we are too immature to deal with it. Its not because we just want games where we bang waifu and chuckle with buddies about it. Its not because the story is over our heads and we are missing the details.

Its because the details and facts that are laid out, that we read and see with our own eyes, lead us to logical conclusions that are in-congruent with where the Dev wants us to be. And to this point, there are no logical choices given to the MC to make regarding how fucked up the situation is. = Kinetic Novel

He has said himself, that if he was an Outsider, without his vision of where the game was going, he could see how we all could be confused. Or put another way, Yusef is saying, "If I was a player and not the developer, I'd be bitching about how it was laid out too."

You can't have a scene with a character driving down the road at 12:00 Noon on a bright sunny day and get in an accident, and then in the next chapter, have a character recall the accident and tell us it was 11:00 PM at night during a torrential downpour. Those don't add up. Somebody is lying....

In EP 1, we see the whole party laid out in front of us. It's NOT being told by the MC's perspective, its not Bryces' perspective, Or AVA's or anyone else. The DEV is showing us the party 3rd person, so we have to accept what we see, what we read, what we hear as fact.

*Now, I am of the camp that would say Ava has already fucked up by even going to the party... I mean really, how would we react if our significant other went to a party, hosted by her former drug dealer, where everyone their has either bullied us or just hates our guts for various reasons?*

Now EP2 Shows up, and we get "Ava's" Perspective. But, as said earlier, Ava is an unreliable witness, so there is a bit of 3rd Person stuff added... to try to change our opinion of her?

EP1 AVA - "I told Stu that I'd try to avoid drinking and smoking as much as I could... Don't wanna relapse"
Turns into Drinking hard, Smoking (Weed... with who knows what in it?)

EP1 AVA - Bumping and Grinding... literally dick to butt with Bryce on the dance floor

EP1 "Ava and Bryce are both hammered as they stare into eachother's (sic) eyes.
EP1 "AVA SILENTLY AGREES WITH A SUBLTE NOD AND GRABS BRYCE"S HAND
View attachment 1450488
AVA IS AGREEING TO WHAT EXACTLY???? Oh yea, lets go upstairs and fuck!

EP1 AVA and Bryce are seen, using at least two renders, going up the stairs, hand and hand... not struggling or stumbling... but walking upstairs hand and hand with an INTENT known to everybody at the party. WE ARE GOING UPSTAIRS TO FUCK!
View attachment 1450491

So we see and read AVA make her own choices here. She knows the kind of party she is going to and who is going to be there.
She knows that her BF doesn't want her to go overboard (but again, would anybody in a committed relationship go this far?)
She gets drunk and high and grinds on a crush. Looks longingly into his eyes and goes upstairs to a bedroom. She knows its Bryce, She knows what she is doing and where she is going, and what the intent is.

The MC gets at least 3 calls during the night, and at 3:43 AM, he wakes up and checks his phone. We don't know what he receives, or who it is from (unknown caller) but it would be a safe bet that the MC wouldn't have anyone who attends THAT party's phone number on his phone.
*SO somebody at that party is still Fucking with the MC... enough to send him some information about Ava and Bryce anyway.*

He arrives at the House where the party is dispersing. Not sure what time but it is daylight outside. Most of the other folks who attended are up and moving around/leaving. We know that Ava's house is some distance from the party (Said so by Bryce to convince her to stay the night) but we don't know the MC's proximity to the Party House.

He is greeted by Natasha, Dick and Josh. Dick says:
View attachment 1450494
Then Josh Tells the MC, If you are looking for Ava, she's Upstairs

As has been pointed out, Nobody is supposed to know that Ava and MC are dating...

MC then goes upstairs to find HIS GIRLFRIEND naked, in the bed of a mortal enemy.
View attachment 1450499
This is followed with
AVA - "Its not what it looks like"

This next one is pretty rich...
View attachment 1450502
Really? You can explain LATER?
WTF - why not explaining it to me now bitch, while you are naked in this asshats bed?
Later cause you are too embarrassed to explain what happened in front of the person you did it with who could confirm or deny your lies?
Later because you don't want your chances of getting drugs from your last night hook-up ruined?
Later because you need to come up with a plausible story?

If you got something to say, say it. If you were raped tell me now! Now is your opportunity!

And then, of course, the beating of Bryce Commences.

EP2
Now this told through AVA's point of view.... but it is kind of messed up as it is sprinkled with some renders/images that would not be "know-able" to AVA
In Ava's version, she is drunk and staggering up to the room... but wait, did she tell Annie/MC, yeah, I was going to fuck him, we were heading to the room, but I was really drunk and stumbled a bit on the way up?
Or is this 3rd person stuff to help correct EP1's version?
View attachment 1450507
Interesting too
When she does trip, Bryce catchers her, and she says:
View attachment 1450509
Why would she call him Romeo... Hmmmm... Romeo would be a romantic pet name. One you might use with somebody before you let him fuck you silly...
But did she tell Annie/MC this in "her version of the story"? Yeah, and on my way to fuck Bryce, I tripped, fell and he caught me. I was so impressed by his Quick Reflexes (though drunk) that I said, "Thanks for the Catch ROMEO".
Or, is that 3rd Person info?

The next bit is the sequence of Bryce fondling and kissing.... with Ava Consent.
View attachment 1450512
She then calls him [Pname] and seems to snap out of it and tells Bryce she can't do this, and that she is dating [Pname]

So... what did she actually tell Annie/MC?
"I went upstairs to Fuck Bryce, stumbled a bit because I was drunk, but you know that Romeo Bryce, he caught me thankfully! We get in the room, and I was enjoying the buzz from all the drugs and alcohol I had been consuming... and then we started making out... Funny thing, he was kissing me and fondling me JUST LIKE [Pname] does! As a matter of fact, it was so much like [Pname]'s moves that I actually called "Bryce" [Pname]. That is when I kind of snapped out of it. I am not saying the Drugs wore off or anything... cause after that, I got a bit sick and decided not to go home to the folks that love me and would actually protect me... I'll just pass out right here in the Land of Douche bag rapist... "
Oh, don't forget, I am a heavy sleeper... So when the sun comes crashing through these giant windows in the morning, and everybody else in the house is up and moving around, I'll still be sound asleep. Just don't say my name as that will wake me up instantly!"

Again, what does Ava Say?
OR is this more 3rd Person stuff to correct our EP1 impression?

When Bryce goes downstairs, EVERYTHING from this point on is 3rd Person Perspective. AVA would have no knowledge. She wouldn't have knowledge of getting mollied (or seeing Bryce Spike her drink).
She wouldn't know that when Bryce got downstairs, Natasha would say:
View attachment 1450524
Which just proves that point that EVERY BODY AT THAT PARTY knew Bryce and Ava were going upstairs to fuck. She can deny it all she wants. But the facts are:
She went to a party she shouldn't have
She made a choice to drink and do drugs though she knows it would upset her boyfriend
She Made a choice dance suggestively with Bryce... enough that they BOTH agreed to go upstairs to fuck
She made a choice to do it in front of everybody so that they would know what was happening/going to happen
She made a choice to stay the night... in the era of Uber or a boyfriend who would have immediately come to get her

Now some could say we didn't see these things unfold. You could muddy the waters with unclear renders or "what I really meant was...."

But at the end of the day, players have to make their own choice as to how to perceive Ava.
Not only that, but our on again off again BFF Annie may have been tainted by Ava as well.

There has got to be one hell of a redeptive path ahead of us.... otherwise, we, as players are going to be stuck in a car making decisions we don't want to make, concerning characters that we will quickly loose empathy for.
Why is episode 1 considered 3rd person, and ep2 considered first person, when both of them play out the same (a mix of Ava's voice/thoughts and a narrator)? Just because the game switches from Ava in the present to the flashback? Doesn't that seem nitpicky as fuck?

If I considered episode 2 to be third person, am I retarded? I'm just confused. Like, let's say it was third person, and the MC was to say in chapter 3 that he believed her, would you as the player be okay with that then, or would you somehow still need more nuance by seeing more of the flashback?

Since we both have very different interpretations of what we saw, I don't know what you expect the dev to do in order to redeem her if you don't even want to give her the benefit of the doubt right now.

If I had to think of anything, I think it's just the choice of drug the dev used that is causing such a stir. If it wasn't molly and was a drug that literally lowered her inhibitions to a point of not even having the ability to consent or understand what she was doing, where her actions go against what's going on in her mind, players would react a lot differently. Or am I having too much faith in people by even suggesting something like this, perhaps people will dismantle this as well because why the fuck not, right?

Also, a girl that just got raped, who is probably still trying to process it while all the drugs are wearing off, assuming she had some semblance of wakefulness during the process, is not some super ridiculous prospect. "IM SORRY BOYFRIEND, I JUST GOT RAPED!" like dude, who in the history of humankind has spoken like that, after such a traumatic incident? Do you realize how fucked of a situation all of this is??

Also, like you said yourself, they knew she was dating MC. That kind of implies getting her that fucked up was planned. They wanted to make the MC angry, they wanted to ruin their relationship. Ava says she loves the MC, and gets mad at Natasha's suggestion that she would still like Bryce. To me it's clear she's over Bryce, but again, that's just me I guess? Anyway, this leads me to infer other things like, was that really Ava that was all there? When she grabbed Bryce's hand and grinded on him or whatever, was she really all there? Again, the most debatable thing I can see in all this, is the molly thing. Did the molly inhibit her that much? Many seem to not believe so. So again, after all this, I think maybe it's simply the fact the dev used molly, that people are going this crazy over it.
 
  • Angry
Reactions: holaje12 and acondo

bananabrown

Member
Oct 18, 2019
243
1,344
I think maybe it's simply the fact the dev used molly, that people are going this crazy over it.
No.

People have given so many reasons stating all the problems with the episode. Ranging from social group and communication inconsistencies to behaviour inconinconsistencies without even touching on Ava.

For crying out loud, a woman's name literally changed between episodes 1 and 2. When you combine the problems together it casts heavy doubt over everything.

Just dismissing everything as Molly takes some majorly unfounded faith in what the developer has produced so far.
 

TheYoungBuck

Newbie
Oct 10, 2021
41
35
No.

People have given so many reasons stating all the problems with the episode. Ranging from social group and communication inconsistencies to behaviour inconinconsistencies without even touching on Ava.

For crying out loud, a woman's name literally changed between episodes 1 and 2. When you combine the problems together it casts heavy doubt over everything.

Just dismissing everything as Molly takes some majorly unfounded faith in what the developer has produced so far.
If you want to elaborate further go ahead, but I explained more than just molly.

Social, communication, and behavioral inconsistencies...we're being shown events in fragments, and because of this, we call this inconsistencies? We barely see what happens in chapter 1 with Ava, and we got shown more in chapter 2. Everyone at the party seemed to have seemed the same. But also, to assume you fully understand how each character is with one chapter, build an idea, get the next chapter and see that these characters have some more complexity, and then call that inconsistency...I explained my own interpretation of the events, and other people have explained theirs, we both can go over the same topics and come out with different interpretations of the story, just based on the fact that we really never had much to go off of in the first place. What we got was always left open ended, and we walked away with different interpretations. Does that mean either of us are right or wrong? Nah, that just means we can play this game of "what ifs" and justify our talking points, because when there's a will, there's a way. The truth is, no one actually knows what's right or wrong. We can only guess.
 

eddie987

Well-Known Member
Dec 5, 2018
1,527
6,966
Why is episode 1 considered 3rd person, and ep2 considered first person, when both of them play out the same (a mix of Ava's voice/thoughts and a narrator)? Just because the game switches from Ava in the present to the flashback? Doesn't that seem nitpicky as fuck?
Because in v0.1 it's a narration of what happened in that party and in v0.2 Ava giving her version of the story? You know, right after Annie got pissed with the MC, because (according to the narrative) she can't trust people easily, but instantly believed Ava (the person who went at the same school as her and hang out with the same group of friends as her ex boyfriend and his brother, but she somehow never met before...) and forced him to talk to her...

If I considered episode 2 to be third person, am I retarded? I'm just confused. Like, let's say it was third person, and the MC was to say in chapter 3 that he believed her, would you as the player be okay with that then, or would you somehow still need more nuance by seeing more of the flashback?
I'll take a wild guess and say that's why a lot of people said that the next update will be the "make it or break it" point of the game for them.

Since we both have very different interpretations of what we saw, I don't know what you expect the dev to do in order to redeem her if you don't even want to give her the benefit of the doubt right now.

If I had to think of anything, I think it's just the choice of drug the dev used that is causing such a stir. If it wasn't molly and was a drug that literally lowered her inhibitions to a point of not even having the ability to consent or understand what she was doing, where her actions go against what's going on in her mind, players would react a lot differently. Or am I having too much faith in people by even suggesting something like this, perhaps people will dismantle this as well because why the fuck not, right?
She doesn't have to redeem herself, that's why so many people just want an option to "drop" her and more options about the way the MC reacts in general.

Also, a girl that just got raped, who is probably still trying to process it while all the drugs are wearing off, assuming she had some semblance of wakefulness during the process, is not some super ridiculous prospect. "IM SORRY BOYFRIEND, I JUST GOT RAPED!" like dude, who in the history of humankind has spoken like that, after such a traumatic incident? Do you realize how fucked of a situation all of this is??
Yes, that's exactly what people expected her to say... :FacePalm:
Not something like "What the fuck is going on? Why are you here (to Bryce) and why am I naked?"
It's completely normal to say "It's not what it looks like" and "I'll explain later" when you supposedly don't know what happened and you are disoriented and traumatised! Unless she's so used to throw that line around it came out naturally...

Also, like you said yourself, they knew she was dating MC. That kind of implies getting her that fucked up was planned. They wanted to make the MC angry, they wanted to ruin their relationship. Ava says she loves the MC, and gets mad at Natasha's suggestion that she would still like Bryce. To me it's clear she's over Bryce, but again, that's just me I guess? Anyway, this leads me to infer other things like, was that really Ava that was all there? When she grabbed Bryce's hand and grinded on him or whatever, was she really all there? Again, the most debatable thing I can see in all this, is the molly thing. Did the molly inhibit her that much? Many seem to not believe so. So again, after all this, I think maybe it's simply the fact the dev used molly, that people are going this crazy over it.
She didn't get mad at Natasha and never said she loves someone else. She reacted in a "stop teasing me" manner, and remembered to mention she's actually seeing someone only after Bryce was on top of her trying to undress her. If she had said "I'm actually seeing someone else" instead of "I don't like him that way anymore" or whatever bs was that she said after Natasha's tease, way less people would have thought she went there with ulterior motives.
 

PJWhoopie

Member
May 14, 2019
356
707
Ugghhh... this is the last, I swear
EP1 is like a video recording of what happened. It is told to us by the narrator. He shows what we see. There is no "bias"... the DEV is telling us what we see. We should be able to take it as fact.

EP2 Is told to Annie and the MC BY AVA. Ava is relaying the events. She could say, "And then a vampire came in the window and fucked me", the DEV could render it, and you could believe it. BUT IT IS WHAT A Character TELLS us, not an unbiased observer. A character tells us this... and we know Ava is an unreliable witness. She is tainted with her own bias.

You can go over my points, and use the same screen caps I used from the game, and tell us how you interpret it different.

"She's not grinding against him while dancing, she is having a flashback to when she lived as a bear in the woods and scratched herself against a tree"...

Ok man, if that is how you see it.

Also, you'd think a college age dealer who had been selling drugs since middle school would know what Molly is and its effects... sigh.... but he really meant to use xyz - is weak.

Doesn't that seem nitpicky as fuck
No... its what separates the good games from the epic games. The details, the consistency, and a story that logically makes sense.
 
Last edited:
3.70 star(s) 32 Votes