VN Ren'Py Abandoned Fallen Roads [v0.2] [Boketto Games]

[TheYoungBuck]

Because in v0.1 it's a narration of what happened in that party and in v0.2 Ava giving her version of the story? You know, right after Annie got pissed with the MC, because (according to the narrative) she can't trust people easily, but instantly believed Ava (the person who went at the same school as her and hang out with the same group of friends as her ex boyfriend and his brother, but she somehow never met before...) and forced him to talk to her...



I'll take a wild guess and say that's why a lot of people said that the next update will be the "make it or break it" point of the game for them.



She doesn't have to redeem herself, that's why so many people just want an option to "drop" her and more options about the way the MC reacts in general.



Yes, that's exactly what people expected her to say...
Not something like "What the fuck is going on? Why are you here (to Bryce) and why am I naked?"
It's completely normal to say "It's not what it looks like" and "I'll explain later" when you supposedly don't know what happened and you are disoriented and traumatised! Unless she's so used to throw that line around it came out naturally...



She didn't get mad at Natasha and never said she loves someone else. She reacted in a "stop teasing me" manner, and remembered to mention she's actually seeing someone only after Bryce was on top of her trying to undress her. If she had said "I'm actually seeing someone else" instead of "I don't like him that way anymore" or whatever bs was that she said after Natasha's tease, way less people would have thought she went there with ulterior motives.

-The actual scene itself is still written the same way as episode 1 narration wise. I find it really weird for the narrator to be in chapter 2 at all if it's not objective. But that's just me I guess.

-Like I said, "assuming she had a semblance of wakefulness", meaning if she was half conscious, she probably would've known she got raped already. So yeah, it makes sense to say I'll explain later. It makes sense for her to not want to talk about the fact she just got raped.

-Regarding the natasha stuff, Ava told the MC she loves him. And at the party, Ava clenched her fists. You could say she wasn't mad, but obviously she was annoyed. The way I understood that, especially after saying "I'm not into him anymore", implies that she's annoyed at Natasha for even suggesting such a thing.

This is why I said something like, what does the dev even need to do to, assuming she was raped and barely had control of the situation after getting a molly put in her drink. Because, like I said in an earlier comment, showing more of that scene, specifically one of Bryce raping her, would probably just cause more backlash since a lot of people can't handle watching something so vivid.

 

[TheYoungBuck]

Ugghhh... this is the last, I swear
EP1 is like a video recording of what happened. It is told to us by the narrator. He shows what we see. There is no "bias"... the DEV is telling us what we see.

EP2 Is told to Annie and the MC BY AVA. Ava is relaying the events. She could say, "And then a vampire came in the window and fucked me", the DEV could render it, and you could believe it. BUT IT IS WHAT A Character TELLS us, not an unbiased observer.

You can go over my points, and use the same screen caps I used from the game, and tell us how you interpret it different.

"She's not grinding against him while dancing, she is having a flashback to when she lived as a bear in the woods and scratched herself against a tree"...

Ok man, if that is how you see it.

Also, you'd think a college age dealer who had been selling drugs since middle school would know what Molly is and its effects... sigh.... but he really meant to use xyz - is weak.



No... its what separates the good games from the epic games. The details, the consistency, and a story that logically makes sense.

When we as the player, are seeing the scene it is still being presented in the same way as chapter 1. It's not like we see Ava saying "and so this what happened...so bryce popped a molly in my drink, right....etc"

Putting the narrator in there at all doesn't really make sense if it's supposed to just be Ava explaining it. It's presented in a factual manner, so that's how I view it.

 

[PJWhoopie]

Buck... it has nothing to do with being able to handle anything vivid or not....

-The actual scene itself is still written the same way as episode 1 narration wise. I find it really weird for the narrator to be in chapter 2 at all if it's not objective. But that's just me I guess.

Aha! You see... that is what we are getting at. These are the inconsistencies the rest of us are trying to point out. "Its not "JUST YOU," as you say.

 

[TheYoungBuck]

Buck... it has nothing to do with being able to handle anything vivid or not....


Aha! You see... that is what we are getting at. These are the inconsistencies the rest of us are trying to point out. "Its not "JUST YOU," as you say.

I'm trying to imagine in my mind, if this wasn't presented objectively, then how else could this be explained objectively. I guess the confusion for people is indeed the fact it switches from present Ava to the flashback and that seems to imply to players that it's Ava's complete recounting of the events....but again idk how else you would present this objectively. I guess we'd need more evidence or something in chapter 3

 

[eddie987]

-The actual scene itself is still written the same way as episode 1 narration wise. I find it really weird for the narrator to be in chapter 2 at all if it's not objective. But that's just me I guess.

-Like I said, "assuming she had a semblance of wakefulness", meaning if she was half conscious, she probably would've known she got raped already. So yeah, it makes sense to say I'll explain later. It makes sense for her to not want to talk about the fact she just got raped.

-Regarding the natasha stuff, Ava told the MC she loves him. And at the party, Ava clenched her fists. You could say she wasn't mad, but obviously she was annoyed. The way I understood that, especially after saying "I'm not into him anymore", implies that she's annoyed at Natasha for even suggesting such a thing.

This is why I said something like, what does the dev even need to do to, assuming she was raped and barely had control of the situation after getting a molly put in her drink. Because, like I said in an earlier comment, showing more of that scene, specifically one of Bryce raping her, would probably just cause more backlash since a lot of people can't handle watching something so vivid.

PJWhoopie already posted a picture of how "half conscious" she looked. Seemed pretty awake to me. Also like I said in another comment, the heavy sleeper who got raped without realising it, woke up after one "AVA!" and was on her feet in a matter of seconds, throwing the most cliche lines ever. Also she was lucid enough to cover herself, because... I don't know. She didn't want the MC to see the creampie leaking out, because it would be more difficult convince him it's not what it looks like?

She was so mad with Natasha she sat down with her and started drinking! She was furious!

Nothing. Since he decided to make her go to that party willingly and start drinking, dry hump Bryce and follow him to his room, there's nothing he can do to make her suddenly look innocent, to some of us. What he can do though is stop pushing the whole "poor Ava is the real victim here" and maybe give us an option to call her bullshit out (everything that was mentioned here by a lot of people again and again) even if that makes Annie more mad at the MC...

 

[TheYoungBuck]

PJWhoopie already posted a picture of how "half conscious" she looked. Seemed pretty awake to me. Also like I said in another comment, the heavy sleeper who got raped without realising it, woke up after one "AVA!" and was on her feet in a matter of seconds, throwing the most cliche lines ever. Also she was lucid enough to cover herself, because... I don't know. She didn't want the MC to see the creampie leaking out, because it would be more difficult convince him it's not what it looks like?

She was so mad with Natasha she sat down with her and started drinking! She was furious!

Nothing. Since he decided to make her go to that party willingly and start drinking, dry hump Bryce and follow him to his room, there's nothing he can do to make her suddenly look innocent, to some of us. What he can do though is stop pushing the whole "poor Ava is the real victim here" and maybe give us an option to call her bullshit out (everything that was mentioned here by a lot of people again and again) even if the makes Annie more mad at the MC...

There is a chance she was already coming to wakefulness and him yelling was loud enough to get her fully up (yes, that's realistically possible). And she covered herself, because I dont know, feeling ashamed or didn't want her lover to see her in such a fucked up state. Like she didn't want to believe what just happened. Rape victims are complicated, I can't say for certain what she truly felt. I'm not the dev nor a rape victim, but I'm friends with former rape victims and they act in contradictory ways often. It's why so many cases go unreported or pushed under the rug. But that's a whole other convo.

 

[eddie987]

There is a chance she was already coming to wakefulness and him yelling was loud enough to get her fully up (yes, that's realistically possible). And she covered herself, because I dont know, feeling ashamed or didn't want her lover to see her in such a fucked up state. Like she didn't want to believe what just happened. Rape victims are complicated, I can't say for certain what she truly felt. I'm not the dev nor a rape victim, but I'm friends with former rape victims and they act in contradictory ways often. It's why so many cases go unreported or pushed under the rug. But that's a whole other convo.

For me her reaction became 100% unrealistic after the twist in v0.2.
1) The heavy sleeper thing I mentioned. If she was so fucked up she couldn't even realise someone was inside her (if she was actually raped) a few hours before, there's no way she would just wake up after just one "AVA!" and also look the way she looked. And it's obvious the dev knows how to do the smeared make up look, since we saw that, after the MC told her they are through.
2) She's not waking up gradually (not sure if that's the right word), like someone would after drinking, "smoking" and getting shitfaced in general for hours, but she's instantly up just like she just had an eight hour beauty sleep.
3) Instead of trying to figure out herself what happened (if she was really unaware) she just threw cliche lines right of the bat like it was something she's done before and came out naturally.

All of the above make sense if she cheated though...

The way the whole party was planned, it's pretty much impossible for me to think she's redeemable in any way.
Just the fact she went there specifically for the person she ended up in bed with, is a red flag by itself. And that's without even taking into account the relationship between that person and the one she (like you said yourself) supposedly loves...

 

[PJWhoopie]

I'm with eddie.

I don't think anyone is saying, Bryce Didn't put Molly in her drink with the intent to fuck her. The DEV showed us that through his/narrators/3rd Person etc eyes.

What we are saying is, we, the players believe THAT was written/added in a push to garner sympathy for a character he (the DEV) is going to have us stuck in the car with for a very long ride.

"But you've interpreted it wrong"
Go back to my long ass post, punctuated with actually screen grabs of the story, and tell me what i am mis-seeing and mis-reading.

I think it's pretty clear now that the DEV wants the players to unite under a Rape SUSPICION. We can't say she was raped though, we didn't see she was raped, and the only inference we have is she went into a bedroom with the intent to fuck, Screwed around with a guy, changed mind, got sick, stayed in bed in enemy territory clothed, Bryce Got into bed naked and had the intent to fuck her, and they both were in the same bed past sun-up in the morning NAKED.

WHAT A GOOD PORTION of the players are saying is:
Doesn't matter whether she was actually raped or not. What does matter is the DEV led us down a path, with clues and pictures to say that Ava made a lot of SHITTY choices that resulted in her being in bed NAKED with the MC's ENEMY.
Everything from Going into a bad situation, doing drugs (while rehabbing), Dirty Dancing, Going to a room in front of everybody at the party with the intent to fuck Bryce.... and staying the night.

Now you guys might let your wives and girlfriends do this every weekend in real life and its no big deal to you.... well, ok.

But for a good lot of us, Ava is tainted goods and not believable which makes for a shitty road trip partner and even worse potential LI. It is perfectly possible for her to be the victim of rape, and still be a shitty person and unbelievable.

How does the Dev fix it?

Make decisions about how the players have to view Ava
Like her? Tolerate her? Forgive her? Have sympathy, despise, hate????
Decide and work from there. You can let us decide, but for those that want nothing to do with her, they need choices too.

There are so many inconsistencies that you might have to do some more clean up with Chap 1.
The DEV said there was a bunch he took out, but if it helps the players understand and follow his path better, then certainly put it back in.

Is Ava a Cheater? Rape Victim? A Cheating Rape Victim?
Make a decision and be solid with the story you tell about it.
I don't think many of us care which one she is, as long as we have logical choices to make regarding how we deal with her. If I am forced to be a spineless cuck that has to eat Annies and Ava's shit all trip, I'm out.

At this point, I'd go along with Cheating Rape Victim. She is a crappy LI with more baggage than Samsonite, that lies to get out of any situation in hopes of avoiding blame.
Ok...
But there better be a shit ton of grudge fuck scenes in it for me.

 

[clowns234]

Why is episode 1 considered 3rd person, and ep2 considered first person, when both of them play out the same (a mix of Ava's voice/thoughts and a narrator)? Just because the game switches from Ava in the present to the flashback? Doesn't that seem nitpicky as fuck?

If I considered episode 2 to be third person, am I retarded? I'm just confused. Like, let's say it was third person, and the MC was to say in chapter 3 that he believed her, would you as the player be okay with that then, or would you somehow still need more nuance by seeing more of the flashback?

Since we both have very different interpretations of what we saw, I don't know what you expect the dev to do in order to redeem her if you don't even want to give her the benefit of the doubt right now.

If I had to think of anything, I think it's just the choice of drug the dev used that is causing such a stir. If it wasn't molly and was a drug that literally lowered her inhibitions to a point of not even having the ability to consent or understand what she was doing, where her actions go against what's going on in her mind, players would react a lot differently. Or am I having too much faith in people by even suggesting something like this, perhaps people will dismantle this as well because why the fuck not, right?

Also, a girl that just got raped, who is probably still trying to process it while all the drugs are wearing off, assuming she had some semblance of wakefulness during the process, is not some super ridiculous prospect. "IM SORRY BOYFRIEND, I JUST GOT RAPED!" like dude, who in the history of humankind has spoken like that, after such a traumatic incident? Do you realize how fucked of a situation all of this is??

Also, like you said yourself, they knew she was dating MC. That kind of implies getting her that fucked up was planned. They wanted to make the MC angry, they wanted to ruin their relationship. Ava says she loves the MC, and gets mad at Natasha's suggestion that she would still like Bryce. To me it's clear she's over Bryce, but again, that's just me I guess? Anyway, this leads me to infer other things like, was that really Ava that was all there? When she grabbed Bryce's hand and grinded on him or whatever, was she really all there? Again, the most debatable thing I can see in all this, is the molly thing. Did the molly inhibit her that much? Many seem to not believe so. So again, after all this, I think maybe it's simply the fact the dev used molly, that people are going this crazy over it.

Alcohol alone can cloud a person's judgement. Different people react differently to different drugs - especially when alcohol is part of the mix. Some people are going out of their way to justify her being the most hated slut on the planet, which is interesting considering that the goal of almost every game on this site is to be the biggest 'man-slut' you can be.

 

[Jack-Atlas]

The only way to save this game in ch3 is to start it with now we gonna show you what really happened that night but oh wait Annie is soo concentrated on the story that she can't see the upcoming truck, both of them are dead with the truck driver and the MC is amnesic at the hospital and the twist is that Bryce was the truck driver and now we'll never know.

 

[Topper420]

Some people are going out of their way to justify her being the most hated slut on the planet, which is interesting considering that the goal of almost every game on this site is to be the biggest 'man-slut' you can be.

I've seen this point brought up more than once in discussion, quite disingenuous since most of the discussion of this game revolves around the story of this game. Why does it matter if other games exist or how the MC behaves in those games? The dev clearly presents this game as something that should be elevating the genre. Well, the MC in most games you'd compare this one to pay a penalty from potential LI's if they try to play the whole field.

 

[vogelbeest]

What will happen in the end when we found was not raped (the guy whom mc beat) didn't even touched her

Just like we see in others game where Developers first create this kind of situation but it the end it's totally different story
Just like leap of faith

The Leap of faith "plot twist" of finding a letter in your shirt that you just never washed or even wore for a year is rubbish...
Most people would have found it the same week or it would have been ruined in the washing machine...

For pulling off these type of scenario's it's best to see some movies like "Hide and seek", "Mulholland drive" or "Memento" for some inspiration on how to make a believable setup for that storywise....
Not saying dev's should give everybody a split personality disorder or inability to make new memories... But movies like that are an example on how to distribute the information to the viewers in a way it's still believable and even the plottwist makes sense.

Most of the discussion here isn't about cheating or rape or even nothing happened... It's about making sense storywise...
A plottwist should be unexpected but it should still make perfect sense, there is room to lead players into a different train of thought but it should be plausible....

For instance ending the first Ava at the party scene with Bryce asking to go upstairs combined with the knowledge MC ended the relation because she cheated would be enough for the player to keep that scenario plausible and as expected fact, however it would give the dev a far better situation to bring the plottwist in the second Ava party scene... Afterall we get introduced to Ava being the one that cheated on MC.... We will follow that as a given fact and expect that to be true untill proven different by the plottwist!

 

[clowns234]

I've seen this point brought up more than once in discussion, quite disingenuous since most of the discussion of this game revolves around the story of this game. Why does it matter if other games exist or how the MC behaves in those games? The dev clearly presents this game as something that should be elevating the genre. Well, the MC in most games you'd compare this one to pay a penalty from potential LI's if they try to play the whole field.

A lot of the 'justifications' used here are based on speculation (and emotion) and that speculation is presented as fact.
The discussion around molly is one example of many. Drugs effect different people differently, especially when you mix them with other drugs - such as alcohol. Alcohol alone could explain why she would be confused and disoriented.

 

[TheYoungBuck]

The Leap of faith "plot twist" of finding a letter in your shirt that you just never washed or even wore for a year is rubbish...
Most people would have found it the same week or it would have been ruined in the washing machine...

For pulling off these type of scenario's it's best to see some movies like "Hide and seek", "Mulholland drive" or "Memento" for some inspiration on how to make a believable setup for that storywise....
Not saying dev's should give everybody a split personality disorder or inability to make new memories... But movies like that are an example on how to distribute the information to the viewers in a way it's still believable and even the plottwist makes sense.

Most of the discussion here isn't about cheating or rape or even nothing happened... It's about making sense storywise...
A plottwist should be unexpected but it should still make perfect sense, there is room to lead players into a different train of thought but it should be plausible....

For instance ending the first Ava at the party scene with Bryce asking to go upstairs combined with the knowledge MC ended the relation because she cheated would be enough for the player to keep that scenario plausible and as expected fact, however it would give the dev a far better situation to bring the plottwist in the second Ava party scene... Afterall we get introduced to Ava being the one that cheated on MC.... We will follow that as a given fact and expect that to be true untill proven different by the plottwist!

Mulholland Drive (which I loved), and a lot of lynch films is still left for interpretation. It's also an entire movie. I didn't understand what was happening in the first portion of the film, I was just guessing. And my guesses were incorrect by the end of the film. In this regard, the game is similar and, to me, is arguably more coherent than a lynch film. At least so far.

 

[vogelbeest]

I think maybe it's simply the fact the dev used molly, that people are going this crazy over it.

A lot of the 'justifications' used here are based on speculation (and emotion) and that speculation is presented as fact.
The discussion around molly is one example of many. Drugs effect different people differently, especially when you mix them with other drugs - such as alcohol. Alcohol alone could explain why she would be confused and disoriented.

It also explains Ava vomiting, adding drugs to the alcohol allready there can cause the stomach to decide it's "payback time" or better: it empties itself to get rid of the toxins... just a natural function, this also greatly inhibits the effects of said toxins since they can no longer be taken into the bloodstream... Usually this response is relatively fast after using a drug when you allready have a belly full of alcohol (for instance the molly would need a different environment to digest, the stomach is either a base or an acid for digesting or the amount of alcohol allready set the stomach close to it's maximum tolerance, the type of food you had for dinner and how much will also be a factor)

 

[Osamabeenfappin]

It also explains Ava vomiting, adding drugs to the alcohol allready there can cause the stomach to decide it's "payback time" or better: it empties itself to get rid of the toxins... just a natural function, this also greatly inhibits the effects of said toxins since they can no longer be taken into the bloodstream... Usually this response is relatively fast after using a drug when you allready have a belly full of alcohol (for instance the molly would need a different environment to digest, the stomach is either a base or an acid for digesting or the amount of alcohol allready set the stomach close to it's maximum tolerance, the type of food you had for dinner and how much will also be a factor)

OMG Get out of here with your science "justifications" lol

 

[vogelbeest]

OMG Get out of here with your science "justifications" lol

Nah, educate the masses man! always eat a solid meal before you go party!

 

[Antonie van Leeuwenhoek]

Let's play "Doctor doctor"

It also explains Ava vomiting, adding drugs to the alcohol allready there can cause the stomach to decide it's "payback time" or better: it empties itself to get rid of the toxins... just a natural function, this also greatly inhibits the effects of said toxins since they can no longer be taken into the bloodstream... Usually this response is relatively fast after using a drug when you allready have a belly full of alcohol (for instance the molly would need a different environment to digest, the stomach is either a base or an acid for digesting or the amount of alcohol allready set the stomach close to it's maximum tolerance, the type of food you had for dinner and how much will also be a factor)

Explaining the reasoning behind vomiting i see.
Commonest symptoms after being mollied
These are secondary (mostly 6/7hrs after ingestion.
Feelings of depression.
Anxiety.
Irritability and aggression.
Impulsivity.
Loss of appetite.
Insomnia.
Fatigue.
Memory problems.
Impaired ability to pay attention.
Loss of interest in sex.

She's not waking up gradually (not sure if that's the right word), like someone would after drinking, "smoking" and getting shitfaced in general for hours, but she's instantly up just like she just had an eight hour beauty sleep.

Its the justification based on actual observation and not speculation, you know majority of the people might not be wrong when they arrive at more or less similar conclusion.

A lot of the 'justifications' used here are based on speculation (and emotion) and that speculation is presented as fact.

 

[clowns234]

Its the justification based on actual observation and not speculation, you know majority of the people might not be wrong when they arrive at more or less similar conclusion.

Let me summarize some of the comments:
"He told her not to go."
"She went there knowing she was going to cheat."
"Ignore that she was drinking. Molly would never have that effect."
"I would never do that so therefore, no one else would either."
"She's a hoe."

I realize most people are just giving their opinion here. It's fun. It's why I am here.
But I see a difference between "I think this happened" and "This happened" - and I'm going to point it out when I see it.

 

[MisterNephilim]

Recovering drug addict accepts an opened drink from known drug dealer.

I nominate Ava for the Darwin Awards.