HTML Female Agent [v1.20.1p] [Crushstation]

[fortuna95]

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Spoiler: TL;DR

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TLDR; Soon™.

With love and humble appreciation for your patience,
Crushstation ❤

 

[rbx4]

Well there are some people who seem to be saying that game development is the toughest thing that anybody could ever do. I don't agree with that. Standing up to their own concerns over inadequacy could be the toughest thing that some people could ever do, however.

 

[asdfasdf12341234ACSACA]

Well there are some people who seem to be saying that game development is the toughest thing that anybody could ever do. I don't agree with that. Standing up to their own concerns over inadequacy could be the toughest thing that some people could ever do, however.

There's one not-so-minor thing I do want to bring up with this argument though: What Crush is doing barely qualifies as game development. The current state of the "game" is "barely a CYOA". I'm only bringing this up because, while I'm sure there are challenges with what he's doing, there's essentially zero overlap with common game development issues:

- Controls: There's no need to make controls responsive, there are no bugs associated with them, it's plain HTML with a (pre existing) JS framework
- Sound: There's no sound
- Graphics: maybe you could argue there are some similar issues here with how the paperdoll works and how "character outfits" would work, but...there's no 3D models to worry about. No 3D graphics optimization, lighting or anything like that.
- Physics: None
- Database concerns (reading or writing in time without sync issues): None
- Completely new mechanics that need to work with the engine: Maybe when the release was the character creator, but not anymore
- UI work: I wish I could give him points here, there is some CSS work, but, much like the "Controls", it's more of a one and done type of deal.

 

[MoolaMoona1]

Is he spending 5-8 hours a day working on the game?

A day? Try a month.

 

[boobthief]

He's improved over time, and developed some skills to make development faster. But without being right beside him in person it's hard to say specifically what he could do differently to improve. This is not making excuses for him, and it's not saying there is nothing he can do to improve. It's more about having accurate information and the big picture of his process and work ethic. Is he spending 5-8 hours a day working on the game? If so that's a good start. Then I'd have to sit beside him as he works and witness exactly how he does this to figure out how to help him.

It sucks that this update could have been a 3 month release and got pushed back to 4 months. And it basically means it wasn't ready at 3 months, he shouldn't write "soon" and then delay the update by another 3 weeks, soon does not mean 3 more weeks, it means 2-7 days.

That being said, it probably means at 3 months the game was nowhere near being ready, which is a problem because 3 months is usually enough time for an update, so how did he fall behind exactly? Also the latest posts about making the update "hotter" are interesting in the sense that he's really fixated on this. I do agree if an update can be better, and quality improved, it should be. An editing pass over the final product is 100% necessary and always recommended (from years of writing essays) and this usually could last 1-2 weeks. But this means he needs the final products by 2 months, and a 1 month editing pass.

I leave 1 month, a huge amount of time for an editing pass, because I think editing is a much bigger process and that the quality of the game matters a lot. It's unlikely you'd travel back in time to an update you did 1 year ago to improve it. It would also be disorienting to do that and you sort of forget all about the process of that update. So 1 month editing pass because it is a process in which maybe for 1 day you are thinking about a section of the story rather than writing or editing at all. You just sit thinking about it. Then you get an idea to improve it a bit and so on. So editing is just more of a process and a creative endeavour. Whereas prepping the update itself, so writing down the story, is more of the pre-planned part. You just get the story from A to B down in the game. But the editing pass is where you can be creative and improve it.

So the big issue isn't that crush is editing, it's the A to B part, getting the story into the game in the first place needs to happen in 2 months if he needs a 1 month editing pass.

This is actually very good news!

They have reached Stage 3 of the Creative Process, "All the Work While Crying", and that means the update will be out soon. TM.

View attachment creative-proccess.webp

Will they ever change? Probably really fucking no.
Will the update be good (but miserable for them grinding it out in crunch time)? Fuck yeah!
It is what it is. And what it is is a good game.

Edit: Also, release date probably something like August 2nd.

 

[rbx4]

There's one not-so-minor thing I do want to bring up with this argument though: What Crush is doing barely qualifies as game development. The current state of the "game" is "barely a CYOA". I'm only bringing this up because, while I'm sure there are challenges with what he's doing, there's essentially zero overlap with common game development issues:

- Controls: There's no need to make controls responsive, there are no bugs associated with them, it's plain HTML with a (pre existing) JS framework
- Sound: There's no sound
- Graphics: maybe you could argue there are some similar issues here with how the paperdoll works and how "character outfits" would work, but...there's no 3D models to worry about. No 3D graphics optimization, lighting or anything like that.
- Physics: None
- Database concerns (reading or writing in time without sync issues): None
- Completely new mechanics that need to work with the engine: Maybe when the release was the character creator, but not anymore
- UI work: I wish I could give him points here, there is some CSS work, but, much like the "Controls", it's more of a one and done type of deal.

These are good points, and I would say that Crush's struggles are at least currently mostly with writing, which varies on a personal level. Some people write easily, and some do not. This is why I say that all this could be the toughest thing that someone ever does in certain cases: if writing is a constant inner struggle, for instance, or if something else is going on that makes writing difficult. I see nothing in the development platform or current technical challenges that would especially contribute to delays. I don't want to chime in on ethics since everything likely to be said about it was already said back in 2018.

 

[Leiafanman]

Yeah, the game was supposed to have a character sheet, so that would incorporate some sort of minimal database if it was ever implemented? where you need to keep track of character stats and how those stats effect the game play and story. Imagine if that was added, there would be a ton more delays =/

it's like i said though, he really needs to punch out the slides in 2 months, and then have a 1 month edit time. And there should be no reason to not create 200 slides of story in 2 months, especially if you pre-planned the story. This gives him 1 month to edit, and it gives the artist 3 months to do art, in a game where most of the art is slightly repetitive right now.

also people really need to get past the fear of "i'll lose 8000$ a month if i finish this game" nah you don't because just before this game ends, you start the next one, and you can develop them simultaneously along side each other for 6 months. Female agent closes out in 6 months, and then gets some patch work in, and you slowly ramp up the next game. But also, even if you didn't do this... you'd probably build up to 8k a month in a few months anyway... there really is no reason to worry about it as much as some people worry about it, imo. like believe in yourself, you're capable of making more than 1 good game, having more good ideas, the only thing holding developers back is themselves, the delays are detriment imo.

I mean what Crush has been doing with these more regular updates is IMO roughing out a linear story. He can finish that (maybe lol) then milk the patreon forever with added content updates and new paths or systems or whatever if he wants. Doesn't even need a new project but I think it would be beneficial to have a finished outline as it were.

As someone who has played with twine a bit I can tell you it's easy to get bogged down trying to make neat systems and whatnot and then coming to the realization that it would be faster to just manually write everything, which is I think what happened before this current "spurt" of actual story updates.

 

[rbx4]

Yeah, the game was supposed to have a character sheet, so that would incorporate some sort of minimal database if it was ever implemented? where you need to keep track of character stats and how those stats effect the game play and story. Imagine if that was added, there would be a ton more delays =/

it's like i said though, he really needs to punch out the slides in 2 months, and then have a 1 month edit time. And there should be no reason to not create 200 slides of story in 2 months, especially if you pre-planned the story. This gives him 1 month to edit, and it gives the artist 3 months to do art, in a game where most of the art is slightly repetitive right now.

also people really need to get past the fear of "i'll lose 8000$ a month if i finish this game" nah you don't because just before this game ends, you start the next one, and you can develop them simultaneously along side each other for 6 months. Female agent closes out in 6 months, and then gets some patch work in, and you slowly ramp up the next game. But also, even if you didn't do this... you'd probably build up to 8k a month in a few months anyway... there really is no reason to worry about it as much as some people worry about it, imo. like believe in yourself, you're capable of making more than 1 good game, having more good ideas, the only thing holding developers back is themselves, the delays are detriment imo.

People, at least in the understood setting that we are in, find a way to do what they really, truly, want to do. If Crush doesn't do this or doesn't make different and new games, it is because something else took priority. It's a fact of life: we can't really control what others do, nor what they want to do.

 

[Deniz31]

I think last day of July is a good estimation.

 

[Tallyhoe]

What still needs to be done?

• All requested art is ready (and looking gorgeous), but needs to be coded in.
• Our illustrator lovely Victoria is working on some last minute art tweaks (caused by changes made in editing)
• I need to edit some of the closing scenes in the episode for hotness, tone and pacing
• A few scenes need a final pass (mainly to punch up dialogue)
• Some minor dialogue branches need to be written in
• Change log needs to be updated, game needs to be compiled and packaged for release
• Add an alternate path to the sex scene, letting the heroine take a more proactive approach
• Hard to explain without spoilers, but: weave in some internal reflections after a certain important event, showing it's still on the heroine's mind and tying together the first and second halves of the episode with more emotional consistency

So basically a whole lot?

 

[asdfasdf12341234ACSACA]

Yeah, the game was supposed to have a character sheet, so that would incorporate some sort of minimal database if it was ever implemented? where you need to keep track of character stats and how those stats effect the game play and story. Imagine if that was added, there would be a ton more delays =/

No, having a character sheet does not imply you need (or even want) a database. Not even SQLite. If you told me he wanted to make procedurally generated characters, each with its own set of stats, then maybe, but that's not the case.

Even then, "Database concerns" are not, well, a concern in this case. He doesn't need to worry about having obnoxiously quick lookups. He doesn't need to worry about having multiple clients write to that database.

 

[rbx4]

Nobody needs to make a database in this product when JSON, or well, anything, exists.

 

[fortuna95]

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Spoiler: TL;DR

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It will be Soon™.

 

[Blob]

Hey guys! I desperately wanted to release by today, but it's still not quite done. Sorry.

I put in about 80 more hours last week, and was able to achieve the following:

Brah. Almost 4 weeks ago it was "It’s now playable start to finish! " with only "polishing and editing the scenes, dialogue and descriptions." left to do.

Just in the last week he worked more than 11 hours every day and it's still not done?
I honestly don't get how a simple text game like this takes so much time.
It's not like we're writing a Game of Thrones book here is it!?

 

[Deleted member 14950]

On Discord, whydoineedthis22 asked if it'd be possible for me to release a pre-edited version alongside the final version, so you guys can compare the difference? I think this is a good idea and I'll aim to make it happen after the release.

I was literally thinking of this couple days ago, he might be quite unreasonable with editing and there is no way to know whether time he spends even worth it. Very interesting to see, this should be good.

 

[CassieBare]

Brah. Almost 4 weeks ago it was "It’s now playable start to finish! " with only "polishing and editing the scenes, dialogue and descriptions." left to do.

Just in the last week he worked more than 11 hours every day and it's still not done?
I honestly don't get how a simple text game like this takes so much time.
It's not like we're writing a Game of Thrones book here is it!?

In the time it's taken him to go from 'it's done!' to 'still not ready, sorry!' I've built out an entire release. And, if anyone's played Blue Swallow, I think they'd agree there's far more content in mine.

 

[depechedNode]

Nice! A similar game/VN but with a hardworking dev (so far). Not tried yet, but it looks promising and will definitely follow its progress. Good luck to the dev.

 

[Derrida]

He's clearly a good writer but if you are constantly overshooting deadlines and proferring rationalizations to your patrons who support you, you are either a little incompetent or a little deceitful. Or possibly, and perhaps more likely, both. It's just very hard to believe that he is working on the game 11 hours a day. Something about the hand-wringing over 'difficult scenes' or the introduction of new techniques like storyboarding (wasn't that supposed to improve and smooth dev time?) just ring hollow to me -- and I say this as someone who struggles with procrastination in my own writing. I've made many excuses to myself. I've busied myself with 'hacks' which would solve all my workflow problems rather than actually just writing. He's worked on this for how many years? Again, this naivete about his own process -- 'breakthroughs' and 'difficult scenes' -- just seems implausible. Writing is difficult, at times. Some scenes are less fun to write than others. None of this should be surprising to a writer 5 years deep on a project.

The truth is, if he was being paid per update, these updates would be coming much quicker and with zero quality difference because hand-wringing and self-deception end when you need to buy bread or pay rent. Of course, people can support whatever they want and, again, he is a talented writer but I do find it funny that so many people seem happy to pay in part to be deceived.

 

[MrAnarchy]

At this point, I highly doubt the game will ever be finished. I mean, it’s been what, 5 years? And we still haven’t even gotten to the main act of her becoming a bargirl, and apparently he plans on adding more free roam and story customization to that but he can’t even keep schedule to the linear part of the story. That’s not even mentioning his supposed plan to remake the lifepath section of the game.

 

[Tallyhoe]

His excuses are so repeatedly overused it's comical.