HTML Female Agent [v1.20.1p] [Crushstation]

[boobthief]

You forget the option where he has no clue where the story is actually supposed to go, let alone finish. He has ideas for scenes, but not an entire picture, it seems. He gets stuck writing about minute details in great length, stretching it as you say, but in the end he ends up nowhere.

He has transformed the game into a linear novel, which is fine and should make it easier for him, but he still can't deliver meaningful content. His writing is good, but over the last few years he introduced several new mechanics that never do anything and aren't even being used ever again. As I said, he loses himself in ideas for scenes and features, but doesn't know where he actually wants to go. No wonder writing takes so long when you literally have to force yourself to come up with something.

Sad thing is, we are still in the prologue. Then again, are we? What is the main game supposed to be when all of this is just the introduction?

I thought the

You must be registered to see the links

(create a character then continue until you click on the testing link) was what was supposed to be happening in 1.19. In fact, one of the interactions, Jack, does happen in 1.19 but I guess those scenes got punched up and polished away until they were replaced with the hot vomiting toilet breakdown.

I am fairly certain there is an overall plan. The Scottish bar manager is very similar to the club manager character in the first(?) version of the game. There is a lot of seeding plot threads e.g. introducing characters for side missions, named bar regulars, hostel guests. Things a writer wouldn't do if they didn't know they needed them. Shame they don't go anywhere!

So I think the random test shows what working as a bar girl would be like in game. It could be really good and offer much-needed replayability and value for paying supporters.

But that's a lot of work and I just don't get the feeling productive work is happening on anything like a recognisable schedule.

 

[boobthief]

The issue is he planned shit, even though I've been telling him to plan the fucking game numerous times, once in dms, and on this forum, and on the discord, and eventually it's going to bite him in the ass. Eventually.

Guess what? the problem of rewriting a scene 60 times is solved, by not re-writing the scene. Don't do it. Nobody wants you to act out your OCD rewriting scenes, go wash your hands 60 times like normal people with OCD. This tells me that crush has no clue how to edit.. or even what he wants.

Agree, generally. The point I was trying and failing to make about words per minute is a good script isn't defined by word count and therefore how many words you write every day doesn't matter.

I think it's fair to say people want a good amount of content. I think developing this game, in particular, is like writing a TV script because of the scenes and dialogue. I want to see a lot more than fifteen minutes of gameplay for months of work. But I also don't want to read 1000 words describing the staff toilets in a brothel.

So, yes, there should be better planning per release / episode. Even something as simple as not forgetting to put the sex scenes in the sex game e.g. at this point in the game, this episode should have had more than some mild flirting over a book, one BJ, one bar shift.

But I also refuse to believe they were rewriting 80 hours per week, punching up three scenes eleven hours at a time or whatever was claimed.

 

[boobthief]

let simplified: lev tolstoy vs crush / war and peace vs female agent:
duration: 6 years (finished) / 6 years and sill on halfway
word count: 587,287 words / ???
payment: after book is delivered / every month no matter you deliver or not..
so please stop talking about crush and creative process in same sentence,

Sure, absolutely, valid comparison, some might say Crush is the Tolstoy of our generation!

word count: 587,287 words / 1,906,917 words (including code, I guess old Leo was too lazy to make his book in Twine)
sex scenes: ? / some

Looks like Crush wins! Suck it, then cry about it in the bathroom, Tolstoy!

 

[Diconica]

Sure, absolutely, valid comparison, some might say Crush is the Tolstoy of our generation!

word count: 587,287 words / 1,906,917 words (including code, I guess old Leo was too lazy to make his book in Twine)
sex scenes: ? / some

Looks like Crush wins! Suck it, then cry about it in the bathroom, Tolstoy!

The image I provided below. Is the files in the visual novel engine I made several years ago. It uses a xml like scripting system for building each scene dialog, multiple story paths and so on.
It amounts to about 12,000 lines of code total at best and about 120,000 words.
That includes all the functionality those files list.
That was just a proof of concept system. At present I am working on a fully graphical system to making a matter of drag and drop to create the stories and provide all the functionality so no need for a person to write a single line of script even.
That will probably finish out at 25,000 lines of code or about 250,000 words.

What is the point large word counts don't prove the person is good at anything.
Lets assume for a minute that his stories word count is that of 600,000. You are talking 1.3 million words for programming. Give the how little functionality it has that is more a sign of how bad someone is at programming. That isn't something to brag about more like something to be ashamed of. I'm of course assuming you separated the code that he created from that of the engine and didn't try to give him credit for that as well.

With using twine the programming is pretty rudimentary. In short twine has a standard set of ways for creating each page and providing the options on it. This means the code it generates to create the story has a poor re-usability and other issues. It also means he didn't do a lot of programming. So he really shouldn't get credit even for most if any of the code. It is machine / program generated.

I would need to compare an older version with the current version to see how many new images he made. The system apparently updates the dates on the images are not indicative of the creation date.

I didn't started doing graphics showing the sex not just text? In fact not seeing that in the images either. So could this be you are just talking about more text in the story? So nothing more than any of the sex novels women like to read. Most of which written under 2 years.

Conclusion:
Well his art work is pretty good. But not sure how much he has generated in the 6 months since he last published. But doesn't seem to be significant amount.
His writing is Ok not great. His actual word count is a bit under 100,000. I found the way they are preceded in the code and then did a search for all the lines that had it.
His code count you tried to give him credit for is a laugh no matter how you look at that. It should count more as an embarrassment not something to be proud of.

I find that manor of evaluating the author a bit lacking and disingenuous.

Spoiler: File Listing

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

 

[Geffe]

So I think the random test shows what working as a bar girl would be like in game. It could be really good and offer much-needed replayability and value for paying supporters.

Honestly, I think a better idea than randomness would be to allow the player to choose from a short selection of encounters. Let the player engage with the content they want, rather than random encounters. Particularly since it seems unlikely that there will be enough randomised content to justify multiple playthroughs, given the slow pace of writing.

e.g At the start of a shift the player is presented with 3 options: Serve Beardy; Serve the office guys; Serve Aussie miner. The player can pick one. After that an 'end shift' option is added. The player can serve more customers, or continue the story if they aren't interested in the other content.

 

[leg28]

Sure, absolutely, valid comparison, some might say Crush is the Tolstoy of our generation!

word count: 587,287 words / 1,906,917 words (including code, I guess old Leo was too lazy to make his book in Twine)
sex scenes: ? / some

Looks like Crush wins! Suck it, then cry about it in the bathroom, Tolstoy!

load of bs... what else to expect from milkman's groupie

 

[Arkady]

There is a lot of seeding plot threads e.g. introducing characters for side missions, named bar regulars, hostel guests. Things a writer wouldn't do if they didn't know they needed them.

Seriously, half a fucking brain cell would tell you the old lifepath version was essentially Crush doing stupid shit he didn't know he'd need for years, and the other half of that brain cell might even point out there's literally no indication Crush managed to evolved beyond a useless idiot wasting huge amounts of time delivering nothing of much note.

 

[Aillor Nailo]

Would it be difficult to alter the Connor/Boss interactions to make them, I wouldn't say more realistic, but more in line with her morale and corruption at that point?

I do not know if any of the earlier scenes with Connor/Boss is realistic. What does a bar maid need to do in the "casting"? I would presume Connor would find her attractive, understand her reluctance/potential and maybe not go too far that early? But maybe he doesn't care if she goes away or not? What do you think would be an appropriate stopping point? For her I would say topless but maybe fully nude just to push the interaction (corruption) a little bit? Maybe a lapdance in panties. But full sex without condom (i.e. rape) does not sit well.

The Boss would ask her out and that might also lead to partial or full nudity and maybe lapdance but it would make sense he has talked with Connor and knows to go slow if he is to succeed to get any from her.

Further interactions with Connor in private could further push her into doing more and more but the blowjob in this episode had been much more crucial if that had more or less been the furthest she has gone. That would sit well with the rest of the narrative.

So I was just thinking how much work it would be to redo these part? I have never done Twine etc but I guess you could just alter the HTML as well.

 

[leg28]

So I was just thinking how much work it would be to redo these part? I have never done Twine etc but I guess you could just alter the HTML as well.

pls don't give any ideas of rewriting/remaking content to this awful milkman. otherwise we won't have 1.20 before 2030.

 

[ffive]

I do not know if any of the earlier scenes with Connor/Boss is realistic.

Connor is looking primarily for opportunity to get his dick wet, and to see if the girl can be potentially turned into another whore for their real business. If the applicant isn't comfortable with his approach, then it's no skin off his nose to simply reject her, there's plenty enough of desperate tourists that he doesn't need to bend over backward to play nice.

Same with the Boss. These guys are hardened criminals who view the girls as nothing but meat and commodity, willing to do anything to keep their shitty job. They have neither willingness nor patience to beat around the bush with them and waste (much) time on some white trash playing hard to get. In this sense yes, these interactions are pretty realistic.

 

[Ragnar]

where mistake is made is: if owners are aware that they have more foreign waitresses than needed and one or two has to go upstairs or be fired, then why hiring new aussie girl? only motive is to drag mc into prostitution (since she is very popular and she can earn them some money). but we don't know that. it just popped from the sky. he spent more time picking types of lipstick or eyeliners and other trivias than polishing really important part of story.

It's a brothel, they scout new girls always. Nobody wants to see the same tits at the bar every night. Turning baristas into full trained whores is their jam. Clients will pay more for a chance to fuck the former barista than to fuck another whore.

 

[boobthief]

Honestly, I think a better idea than randomness would be to allow the player to choose from a short selection of encounters. Let the player engage with the content they want, rather than random encounters. Particularly since it seems unlikely that there will be enough randomised content to justify multiple playthroughs, given the slow pace of writing.

e.g At the start of a shift the player is presented with 3 options: Serve Beardy; Serve the office guys; Serve Aussie miner. The player can pick one. After that an 'end shift' option is added. The player can serve more customers, or continue the story if they aren't interested in the other content.

If you mean 'serve' as in bargirl sucky fucky, yeah that makes sense. I think coercion and corruption are supposed to be a part of this game so I'm not sure how much choice you should actually be able to exercise...

Random encounters (serving drinks or dicks) could be the basis for an actual game loop (instead of the current linear narration) e.g. three bar shifts where there is a pool of 30 potential random encounters (serve customer x or let someone else do it, go to VIP, go to coyote, cry in the toilets etc.)

But that's a lot of work. But if the community got involved and wrote some of the scenes. But if Crush could manage time...

 

[boobthief]

Seriously, half a fucking brain cell would tell you the old lifepath version was essentially Crush doing stupid shit he didn't know he'd need for years, and the other half of that brain cell might even point out there's literally no indication Crush managed to evolved beyond a useless idiot wasting huge amounts of time delivering nothing of much note.

I disagree for the reasons I gave i.e. there's a lot of setup going on, which is indicative of planning.

I find it weird that you rage so hard about this game you love, attacking the developer and people merely discussing it. But it's entertaining so please do continue.

 

[boobthief]

The image I provided below. Is the files in the visual novel engine I made several years ago. It uses a xml like scripting system for building each scene dialog, multiple story paths and so on.
It amounts to about 12,000 lines of code total at best and about 120,000 words.
That includes all the functionality those files list.
That was just a proof of concept system. At present I am working on a fully graphical system to making a matter of drag and drop to create the stories and provide all the functionality so no need for a person to write a single line of script even.
That will probably finish out at 25,000 lines of code or about 250,000 words.

What is the point large word counts don't prove the person is good at anything.
Lets assume for a minute that his stories word count is that of 600,000. You are talking 1.3 million words for programming. Give the how little functionality it has that is more a sign of how bad someone is at programming. That isn't something to brag about more like something to be ashamed of. I'm of course assuming you separated the code that he created from that of the engine and didn't try to give him credit for that as well.

With using twine the programming is pretty rudimentary. In short twine has a standard set of ways for creating each page and providing the options on it. This means the code it generates to create the story has a poor re-usability and other issues. It also means he didn't do a lot of programming. So he really shouldn't get credit even for most if any of the code. It is machine / program generated.

I would need to compare an older version with the current version to see how many new images he made. The system apparently updates the dates on the images are not indicative of the creation date.

I didn't started doing graphics showing the sex not just text? In fact not seeing that in the images either. So could this be you are just talking about more text in the story? So nothing more than any of the sex novels women like to read. Most of which written under 2 years.

Conclusion:
Well his art work is pretty good. But not sure how much he has generated in the 6 months since he last published. But doesn't seem to be significant amount.
His writing is Ok not great. His actual word count is a bit under 100,000. I found the way they are preceded in the code and then did a search for all the lines that had it.
His code count you tried to give him credit for is a laugh no matter how you look at that. It should count more as an embarrassment not something to be proud of.

I find that manor of evaluating the author a bit lacking and disingenuous.

Spoiler: File Listing

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

It was a joke because I find it utterly bizarre to compare the indie adult game Female Agent with War and Peace to determine the winrar.

The high word count / minified SLOCs is because of included libs. No idea if Twine has a word count but I don't care because in addition to above:

As I've stated before and will restate in a different way: word count is literally quantity not quality.

If you must compare Female Agent to something, maybe pick a popular (money earned per month) game on F95 and take a look at their release schedules and play time. They're often not great either. It's all pretty shitty.

 

[ffive]

Random encounters (serving drinks or dicks) could be the basis for an actual game loop (instead of the current linear narration)

Also known as wasting developer time to add pointless grind to waste players' time. Does anyone seriously read and/or wank to randomly generated mad libs? It wouldn't add anything meaningful to the narrative, so what's even the point?

 

[MrAnarchy]

None of these ideas or suggestions matter anyway because 1) Crush has made it clear no matter how good the advice or how good a place it’s coming from, he won’t take it, and 2) even if he did, could he? I mean, once again, we’re six years into a fairly linear text game that hasn’t even gotten to the main act.

 

[rbx4]

None of these ideas or suggestions matter anyway because 1) Crush has made it clear no matter how good the advice or how good a place it’s coming from, he won’t take it, and 2) even if he did, could he? I mean, once again, we’re six years into a fairly linear text game that hasn’t even gotten to the main act.

Occasionally there have been some signs of Crush following advice, although the end result has always seemed to be additional delay, or in the older days a reboot. I'll let people interpret that for what it is, though if someone says that Crush has the optimum work strategy and routine already and can only be made slower by changing it, I will have at least a few giggles.

 

[Diconica]

It was a joke because I find it utterly bizarre to compare the indie adult game Female Agent with War and Peace to determine the winrar.

The high word count / minified SLOCs is because of included libs. No idea if Twine has a word count but I don't care because in addition to above:

As I've stated before and will restate in a different way: word count is literally quantity not quality.

If you must compare Female Agent to something, maybe pick a popular (money earned per month) game on F95 and take a look at their release schedules and play time. They're often not great either. It's all pretty shitty.

I'm not sure there is a fair way to evaluate the games on patreon. Different developers on there make use of it different ways.
Some developers take the time to refine their skills over the period in multiple areas programming, art, writing and game design.

Others I think take it differently, some are lazy and see this as just an opportunity to milk people, some get scared and think they can't come up with another good idea so don't want to risk ending the first project...
They are human so different reactions for different people makes sense.

Should we compare it then to "Trials in Tainted Space"?
I'm not a fan of the game TITS. Not my cup of tea.
The developer First chose an audience and stuck with it. His game is built around a certain theme that doesn't work for me. But it works well for the story and what he wants to go on.

Both games now are HTML based.
Apparently TITS thought started as FLASH. It appears they then moved to Node.js with electron.js. That means they had to learn to do some actual coding.
Female Agent on the other hand uses twine. There is very little actual coding needed and most of that is a do once so you can use it over and over again if need be. Most the coding is handled by twine itself.

The amount of story TITS has far exceeds that in female agent.
Release and time on this site. TITS first comment is 1 year earlier than Female Agent but the number of release in the amount of time far exceeds that of female agent. It seems they are more active.

Art. Not sure if the developers of TITS creates their own art or if someone else does or they just harvest it from the net.
They have a fair bit of art though.
Female Agent. It borrows images from the web along with self developed images for the avatar
One thing I noticed about the art for the avatar is a lot of duplicated work. Take eyebrows as an example. They appear in different colors. I'm not sure why they didn't just use a single one and apply color to it. It could simple be because he is limited to pure HTML and didn't use canvas or even know he could. If he had built the images as SVGs he could have applied color regardless. That would have saved him a lot of work. The reason that is the SVG is just a text file and you can alter the color with JS in it. But he may not even have that coding capability.

So is that a fair comparison? Sure TITS has been around 1 year longer but they also had to deal with the engine they using becoming scrapped. Build an entire new engine. I said they. Because at some point they gained a developer to my understanding. I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong.

TITS story / dialog. It is mixed in with their code. But about 70% of the file seems to be dialog and such. 93Mb of files that roughly 65.1Mb of dialog. Strip the white space and punctuation 54.25Mb which works out to about 10,850,000 words.
That using the average words size of 5 every 6th character as white space or punctuation.

From that we can realize that the developer form Female Agent isn't doing even half the work the developers from TITs are doing. For that matter he isn't even doing half the work any single developer from TITs is doing.

Is that a fair comparison though? I have no idea. If I am just looking at work and production and quality and so on. Maybe, if I want to take in a broader picture such as what is going on in their lives, the back ground, education, ...

I am 100% sure you can also find worse developers that have been on patreon. Does that however make him a good developer. No.

The way I see it they are performing at the level they choose to or are capable of. What motivation there is behind it and so on I have no idea.

 

[Crackcocaine]

I just learned that all of this took 6 years for a game that's apparently linear?.......I was under the impression that this was started recently. Tf was this guy doing all this time then?

 

[Crackcocaine]

valid point. and fucking for job with connor/boss can also been counted as whoring (if you give your body for something else than money is also prostitution?).
that's why i liked original intro more where she was from the very beginning in scotland prepared to be whore. instead scrapping whole intro he just had to compile it. "of course we are sending you to be bartender not whore, but expect anything since we are sending you to brothel. that's way we are sending you in whoring training in glasgow by night to see what might happen. are you ready for that worst case scenario?" personally i would expand bangkok mission from sitting and waiting into proactive mission of gathering info on human and drugs trafficking, rl terrorism in thailand - attacks on tourists, mc rising thru ranks. season 1 ends by catching money guy but bosses ask her to stay for new mission with dea since her cover has not been damaged. gradually she become more corrupt, running her own shaddy businesses protected by agency..... he can run honestly this game for years and keep quality story.

of course he knows what he is doing - milking. if he is paid by delivered content game would be finished a long time ago (or abandoned). and if he hires writing help less money to him and quicklier game progress. goodbye easy money. one dev has at parteon tiers set not monthly but per major update. we are not going to see such honesty from crush because instead 12 payments by year, with current pace he would have 2-3 payments

and patrons are paying him bunch of money to learn how to make a game. this is, mildest to say, despicably. but i believe it is worse than that. it is deliberate scheme to milk sheeps. as i said above money is coming monthly no matter what. after 4 years of scotland and experimenting with intro, he throws most of it in recycle bin, kept money and move to bangkok. so much time spent on tattoos, physical and mental shaping of mc, sex history, whole life and in general making whole piles of details just to throw them away. he delivered some content in 6 years, just enough not to call him scammer or fraud and keep some patrons on the leash

Wait, so the whole preparing in Scotland thing is gone now? Tf? Why? That type of shit is what got me hooked initially. Was wondering why the game felt so different since the last time I played it...and why the mc's actions makes almost no sense in this version compared to the last version.......Damn.....Well, looks like I gotta find something else now. Shit.