None of these ideas or suggestions matter anyway because 1) Crush has made it clear no matter how good the advice or how good a place it’s coming from, he won’t take it, and 2) even if he did, could he? I mean, once again, we’re six years into a fairly linear text game that hasn’t even gotten to the main act.
HTML Female Agent [v1.20.1p] [Crushstation]
Occasionally there have been some signs of Crush following advice, although the end result has always seemed to be additional delay, or in the older days a reboot. I'll let people interpret that for what it is, though if someone says that Crush has the optimum work strategy and routine already and can only be made slower by changing it, I will have at least a few giggles.
I'm not sure there is a fair way to evaluate the games on patreon. Different developers on there make use of it different ways.
Some developers take the time to refine their skills over the period in multiple areas programming, art, writing and game design.
Others I think take it differently, some are lazy and see this as just an opportunity to milk people, some get scared and think they can't come up with another good idea so don't want to risk ending the first project...
They are human so different reactions for different people makes sense.
Should we compare it then to "Trials in Tainted Space"?
I'm not a fan of the game TITS. Not my cup of tea.
The developer First chose an audience and stuck with it. His game is built around a certain theme that doesn't work for me. But it works well for the story and what he wants to go on.
Both games now are HTML based.
Apparently TITS thought started as FLASH. It appears they then moved to Node.js with electron.js. That means they had to learn to do some actual coding.
Female Agent on the other hand uses twine. There is very little actual coding needed and most of that is a do once so you can use it over and over again if need be. Most the coding is handled by twine itself.
The amount of story TITS has far exceeds that in female agent.
Release and time on this site. TITS first comment is 1 year earlier than Female Agent but the number of release in the amount of time far exceeds that of female agent. It seems they are more active.
Art. Not sure if the developers of TITS creates their own art or if someone else does or they just harvest it from the net.
They have a fair bit of art though.
Female Agent. It borrows images from the web along with self developed images for the avatar
One thing I noticed about the art for the avatar is a lot of duplicated work. Take eyebrows as an example. They appear in different colors. I'm not sure why they didn't just use a single one and apply color to it. It could simple be because he is limited to pure HTML and didn't use canvas or even know he could. If he had built the images as SVGs he could have applied color regardless. That would have saved him a lot of work. The reason that is the SVG is just a text file and you can alter the color with JS in it. But he may not even have that coding capability.
So is that a fair comparison? Sure TITS has been around 1 year longer but they also had to deal with the engine they using becoming scrapped. Build an entire new engine. I said they. Because at some point they gained a developer to my understanding. I'm sure someone will correct me if I am wrong.
TITS story / dialog. It is mixed in with their code. But about 70% of the file seems to be dialog and such. 93Mb of files that roughly 65.1Mb of dialog. Strip the white space and punctuation 54.25Mb which works out to about 10,850,000 words.
That using the average words size of 5 every 6th character as white space or punctuation.
From that we can realize that the developer form Female Agent isn't doing even half the work the developers from TITs are doing. For that matter he isn't even doing half the work any single developer from TITs is doing.
Is that a fair comparison though? I have no idea. If I am just looking at work and production and quality and so on. Maybe, if I want to take in a broader picture such as what is going on in their lives, the back ground, education, ...
I am 100% sure you can also find worse developers that have been on patreon. Does that however make him a good developer. No.
The way I see it they are performing at the level they choose to or are capable of. What motivation there is behind it and so on I have no idea.
- Jun 25, 2020
- 37
- 67
I just learned that all of this took 6 years for a game that's apparently linear?.......I was under the impression that this was started recently. Tf was this guy doing all this time then?
- Jun 25, 2020
- 37
- 67
Wait, so the whole preparing in Scotland thing is gone now? Tf? Why? That type of shit is what got me hooked initially. Was wondering why the game felt so different since the last time I played it...and why the mc's actions makes almost no sense in this version compared to the last version.......Damn.....Well, looks like I gotta find something else now. Shit.
- May 8, 2017
- 768
- 1,136
Don't worry, you're as confused as everyone else has been for 6 years or however long it's been
Yes, growing up, college, post-college missions, Scotland, and tons of avatar customization that was worked on (and reworked) for years got tossed. Now you pretty much go right to Dubai, bang Max, and BAM you're in Bangkok—the place we were waiting for years to get to.
- May 25, 2017
- 347
- 1,004
Sure, I think that's a relevant comparison. I don't follow TiTS either, also not my cup of tea, but I'm vaguely familiar with it and CoC.
Fen's Patreon states they're earning £25650 pcm and Crush's Patreon states £5741 pcm.
Quite a difference, no? Possibly shows the value of community interaction and regular updates. Also Fen has a proven track record and super niche content so... if you like it you probably really like it and want to support i.e. pay for more.
Wow, I think that's really unfair! Twine / SugarCube doesn't do any of the avatar stuff, which I think is a huge part of the success of Female Agent. I think they're really pushing what the engine is capable of in terms of making an aesthetically pleasing game.
I also see a ton of polish and therefore effort on the UI. I think Female Agent is a good looking, slick game to play and I credit the developers for that.
As above, I don't follow TiTS, but I'm pretty sure they include a lot of writing contributions from their community. More power to them. Contributions are something I think Crush has been thinking about using. If that delivers more content, faster and Crush can make it work then it's win/win, imo.
Disagree! I think the avatar has been a huge part of elevating Female Agent above regular Twine / HTML games. Many have tried something similar, ripping art from other games, but Female Agent is bespoke.
I think the latest iteration Queen Victoria avatar art is really fucking good, far surpassing anything I've seen for a kisekae-type game. The personalisation and
You must be registered to see the links
are powerful motivators to play your agent. See the end of episode scene where $name will always remember you!The avatar art and new depictions of bar staff in this episode looks very vector-based to me e.g. Illustrator. It's pretty complex (patterns) so you're probably not going to get a huge amount of benefit from using SVGs either in speeding up development when you can just batch export and plug it into their existing workflow. The avatar code is clunky but it works so nobody cares!
Money. But I believe they could make a lot more, TiTS money even, if they released content on a regular schedule. It's tempting to think that punishing them by removing subscriptions would make them change but if it didn't pay their rent I think it's more likely they would just stop the game and do something else. After all, I'd hazard a guess that the vast, vast majority on F95 are not subscribed to Female Agent anyway.
It's not really the quality of the code it's the amount of quality content per update that people care about. If the latest episode was released after one or two months supporters would be fine. If the latest episode had more content and sex scenes supporters would probably be happy. Taking longer and delivering less makes people unhappy-ish... but
You must be registered to see the links
.Edit: grammar
Last edited:
- May 25, 2017
- 347
- 1,004
It's the
You must be registered to see the links
. It's typically what you are doing when you are playing a game.So far, Female Agent has been very linear and the point is this would allow for agency as a player with an additional benefit of replayability.
If you're wanking to the sex scenes, imagine playing the game but you are presented with different encounters and you can roleplay as your agent by choosing different actions. You have already seen a very basic version of this in the bed time fantasies section. You chose and presumably wanked to the scenario that you most wanted to wank to.
I know what a gameplay loop is. The point is twofold, one: this "game" is more of a visual novel which don't generally involve the gameplay loop (beyond "read stuff and click to advance, occasionally make a choice) and two, some gameplay loops are pure shite. Random encounters which serve no purpose other than to be able to say "i have a gameplay loop" are exactly such shite.
There's no need to imagine it, there's quite a few games with this kind of approach, with "combat" being sex actions. The novelty of reading canned move description wears roughly five minutes in, and then you're left with pointless encounters repeating the same text snippets you've already seen dozens of times and your brain has learnt to just glaze over.
- May 25, 2019
- 63
- 34
- May 8, 2017
- 768
- 1,136
Oh yeah, I keep thinking Dubai from the previous versions. Forgot it's just KL to Bangkok now.
I agree that I don't see the point of an actual gameplay loop in FA. It's not that it can't be done well. It's that the paying audience has a strong enough chance of disliking it that this chance should not be ignored. What is being sold right now is potential, and the paying audience seems to want to continue paying as long as that potential exists in exactly the same state that it is currently in. Some things go badly when potential is converted into actual results. I expect Crush to talk about gameplay loops, but I'm not so sure that it's a good idea for someone like him to implement one.
- May 25, 2017
- 347
- 1,004
Feedback from the random bar encounters test was reported to be positive.
Personally, I don't see the point in gatekeeping. Relax, nobody is going to get imploded at the bottom of the ocean, it's just a game.
- May 25, 2017
- 347
- 1,004
Oh, cool, tautology: it's shite because it's shite.
But if you tried to imagine it, this could cover a few bar shifts between advancing the narrative. A similar loop was already used in an earlier version (the first?) of the game in the club where there were random different encounters and it added immersion and replayability.
Nah dude, you see gatekeeping coming out of the woodwork all the time. Don't start again or they'll accuse you of flirting. I should clarify that these attentions are unwelcome.
Last edited:
It's shite because it's:
I didn't think that required elaboration, the reasons why that's bad should be obvious.
Like i said, i don't need to imagine something i have already played multiple times, both in the other games which use this approach and in the earlier version of this one that you mention. That earlier version had 2-3 such encounters total as a minor part of the storyline, and the relative novelty might've fooled you into thinking it's good, but believe me, that impression goes out of the window fast when the number of repetitions ramps up into dozens.
We're at similar endpoints through different routes. To me, I'm happy with a well-done loop. I think this was something that Crush probably wanted to do back in 2017 too, but his customary slowness led people to conclude that his design plan and choice of variables were to blame. Turned out he is just slow no matter what.
Still, people are free to like what they want. I'd say that many current fans of the game have tastes similar to yours, going to visual novel instead of emergent gameplay.
I should probably also outline how I see this. I think there are people who believe in "bumbler crush", who is perpetually an innocent novice at all this (even after 7 successful years in this field), who can't do things right, but who somehow succeeds. The charming bumbler is someone that certain people want to throw money at.
I believe in the "smart crush" instead, one who is learning, observing, and choosing correctly most of the time given the goal. I'm not telling Crush not to do anything, since I believe in "smart crush."
I believe in the "smart crush" instead, one who is learning, observing, and choosing correctly most of the time given the goal. I'm not telling Crush not to do anything, since I believe in "smart crush."
They didn't start out making that kind of money. Both of them started making nothing. Trying to fit a niche vs general public is usually harder to get the same or greater growth than appealing to the mass. By not selecting a niche you literally have a greater number of potential clients. Basically you set it up and assign a tag then make use of the tag any time you want it to show the same thing.
You can open the game in twine. There is a potential for code reuse with twine and sugarcube. I'm not seeing it used to its full potential. You can see plenty of older material left in there also. Most the coding is basic formatting such as setting header size. But potentially doesn't even need to be done by himself it could be done from a drop down list.
What I can tell you is he could have created a single set of variables to store the avatar image list then used a layer system with html and css to display them. He could reuse that over and over again. There seems to be evidence he did something like that. But there also seems to be evidence that when he creates a store to buy something he is making each store individually rather than using a single code base and just changing the items available and prices.
99% of the pages could could use a template format. By that they use a similar layout you just need to add the minimal format such as identify headers and sections. In total about 20 or so different page formats could be used to cover every screen he has it would just require the content changes then.
Either way basically most the so called coding would be similar to using a text editor such as MS Word or another writing program that other office software.
Any community content would need to be reviewed proofed then add into section of the story it will fit. In the greater extent community content is more like someone giving you and idea with the general overlay of what the events will be. Some times it could even provide the actual entire story and dialog depending on the writers skills. However, you have to go through all those submissions or have a process to weed out bad ones vs good ones. That takes time. Even if you had something like a community vote that doesn't mean by any stretch you will get the best ones or even ones that are well written. Just look how many bad games on this site that are liked.
Not sure what you are disagreeing with.
I listed a number of facts.
The male images are all images taken from the web.
While the avatars for the women were made using SVG he converted them to png and he lost a lot of flexibility doing that. He does use some SVGs for achievements but the avatar images are all converted to png. I can't tell you why he chose to do that. It would have saved him work such as making different color eyebrows and hair. All he would need to do is change the value in the SVG it is just text. That said maybe there isn't a way to edit that in twine.
If you look you will notice his avatars reuse parts. They are composite images. So it doesn't take as much work as if you were going to create each individual image with brush methods.
I suspect he is using some software he found that does a lot of the work. There are ones out there that have skeletal animation systems and allow changing body part sizes and the clothing is automatically fit to the character because the vertexes are matched to it.
Myself I've done the work using Krita to generate a base model then hand edited the vertices. Even then it didn't take much time. I did that primarily to understand how the SVG worked at the base level because I am building my own library and editor for game development.
There are already editors out there though. If that is the case the amount of work put into it is far less than if he is using Krita and or some other software and editing it.
But take the bodies on the newer ones here are a few different postures. Ignore the arm placement that is separate parts. Torso upper and lower. The front and back image is literally the front flipped left to right. then the back shading added. The crotch area is also a separate section that is added in. Then you add the ass for the back and so on and tits on the front. There are several girls using the same one. There are several girls with the same facial jaw line some differ. SVGs you can easly change the color in make up shadows cheeks ... are all just layers added over it. eyes nose hair are again just another layered image.
The point being is it does take much work to create thousands or millions of different characters once you have some of these built up. If you have a bone and slider system built in you can make them even easier.
The point is people on here know the amount of work going into the game isn't that much. The art work is a days work maybe two if he is slow. The writing doesn't even make that. It took him 6 months to put that out.
That is why people are upset. That makes he did effectively 1 days work for every 60 he had.
Yep, I'd say they have every reason to think there should have been more.
Last edited: