A month isn't
too much time to be AWOL from a forum. I hope Aseratrix has just taken an extended vacation, and will return refreshed. Like, I remember one time he said he planned to take a break for a couple weeks, and then he... didn't. x.x It was clear that the pressure he felt to always keep on top of this thread was immense, so he deserved a rest. So, while I don't know for sure, fingers crossed that's why he's been away, and that he's okay...
In any case, if you guys (
Mister_M and
LAKueiJin) were to start extending the list with regular updates, that'd be exciting. I would start to pay attention to it again (rather than just pay attention to recent posts in the thread). So yeah, I think it would be a positive development, if you're indeed up for the work involved. As for how much longer to wait for Aseratrix before attempting that, I'm not sure.
My one recommended is that it'd be best if we stayed in this thread. This is why I think that:
So, looking at NNN from this perspective, it's definitely not a femdom game. I am sure purist maledom fans also don't like it, and I also think it has a few scenes that definitely depict femdom kinks (especially now that you've told me it even has CBT, facesitting, spitting and trampling - I wish I would've only seen those scenes!
), but I just wouldn't call it a "femdom game" overall,
Interesting thoughts.
I initially typed up a point-by-point analysis of how I don't view NNN as strictly in contradiction to any of the 3 points you mentioned (that they call the shots, that they derive enjoyment from what they do, and that they aren't degraded by what they do). I could share that, but I think it wouldn't particularly affect your views.
Elucidus has also done a good job speaking up in support of NNN, anyway. I'll just restate the essential thesis of my previous post about NNN: the game has a complex social dynamic where different players will have different views on who's at fault or who's truly suffering. I believe that NNN can at most be condemned by someone's personal view that the dynamic is not female dominant overall due to specific plot elements being interpreted a certain way, and conversely, it can be redeemed by the views of people like me that it's indeed a femdom game, for reasons like the plot being interpreted as about a guy who's cruelly sexually abused by women against his will.
I will at least say this: the fact that the femdom-ness of NNN's overall dynamic could be considered a borderline case to BDSM femdom fans (which is many of us in the thread here) is certainly an indicator that its appeal to them is limited. Indeed, this game doesn't turn me on anywhere near as much as other games like Escalation or Tower of Trample or Mistresses of the Forest. I still prefer "extreme" situations where the woman exercises intense physical or psychological dominance over the submissive partner, especially if there's a sense of dread, panic, terror, or broken pride in the sub who's lost control. So comedic elements and any other elements which distract from the overall "atmosphere" of femdom don't turn me on as much.
nor do I think that's what the creators were going for when they made this game! (sure, maybe some of them were into femdom, but it doesn't seem like writing a femdom story/narrative was what they tried to achieve with NNN...)
The team behind the game probably isn't into femdom, as they're mostly salarymen who work for Nexton. That said, the
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runs a one-man circle called Sakusei Research Lab. Sakusei is a fetish that literally means "semen milking" (basically forced ejaculation). Around 2017, he started to create and sell on DLsite lengthy comedic dystopian CG sets with unexpectedly deep plots, his first one named "Infinite Ejaculation Torture" (a sci-fi epic about an android uprising, which includes pegging and snuff). Some samples of the art, which arguably indicates a femdom influence:
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. His style is more centered around reverse rape than pure femdom BDSM. His works would be classified as M-muke, meaning marketed to masochistic straight men. The translator of Steps to Love also
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Nope Nope Nurses in detail and considers it femdom. ...But well, to each their own. You can label NNN however you wish, and it's absurd for me to feel the need to change that; I've clearly spent way too much effort trying to talk it up.
Speaking of your conversation with Elucidus, I'm just catching up on the thread here, and there's one part I'll comment on:
With that out of the way though, no, reverse-rape is not enough to make something a "femdom game".
For the record, Elucidus just called reverse rape a femdom trait. As for whether it's a "femdom game" yeah, that depends on how you define a femdom game, which I expect you would concur relates to the overall tone and/or amount of femdom. So frankly, even a ballbusting scene isn't enough to make a game a femdom game, if the rest of the game is maledom.
Our definitions of femdom game are probably not that different, actually. At most, we probably don't see eye-to-eye when it comes to whether reverse rape, or just rape if you prefer that term, is inherently femdom, or maybe we just don't define reverse rape the same way. You and I might theoretically argue over whether a game like Desire Dungeon is a femdom game, for example. For my purposes, I defined a femdom game as "any game in which female characters assume dominant roles for most sex scenes, and their dominance is more of a focus of the game than male domination, vanilla situations, or other non-femdom fetishes". It includes NNN... and also includes far more monster girl games than just Monster Girl Quest, since dominance doesn't necessitate extreme cruelty (plenty of them feature heroines who are legitimately predatory and who truly assume control during sex, rather than just wandering nymphos who "attack" men). Notably, it excludes Starless because a majority proportion of it is maledom (technically proxy femdom, but ultimately maledom, since the dominant women aren't even depicted) or vanilla. Starless is/was still considered an M-muke game; Sei Shojo's games including Bible Black and Discipline were all must-plays for femdom fans back around the year 2000, but 20 year have passed and Japanese industry has experienced increased specialization along with a doujin nukige boom, combined with the Western scene starting to pick up steam in the past five years. Thanks to MGQ's fame, most Japanese femdom games focus on monster girls and succubi these days, sort of like how new English language femdom games include a lot of ToT clones lately...
Fully agreed with this - I don't regard Starless or Closed Game as pure femdom games either and I agree they likely have a lot more maledom in them than NNN.
On a random side note, Closed Game is a maledom game that just has a small amount of femdom. Not on the same level as Starless. Sei Shojo is into femdom, and is both the writer and artist of Bible Black/Discipline/Starless, but he was only the artist for other games like this one.
