Ren'Py Four Elements Trainer [v1.0.9d] [Mity]

[Saraf]

Well I guess thats a rather measured freakout compared to most other projects on here when it comes to delay-news.
Proud of you guys. *silently hides torch and pitchfork*

 

[Dr Krieger]

They don't have to replace coder. There are plenty of freelancers out there. I used to work with an Indian guy that made excellent PHP coding for a reasonable price and real fast (I gave him more than he demanded after seeing the quality AND speed. He earned it!).

Did he ask for Bob and Vagena?

 

[Balrog]

you forget, that, to a big part, this coder is also the writer which means, artist alone even with a different coder would be a complete game changer. that has been explained a small few years ago in some patreon post. cba to dig it up, since i dropped any patreon years ago. in essence, this coder out could mean good luck writing the story. matters worse, that time of his health/mental etc crash would be close to a full year now? maybe stuff comes back up. mammal brains never work right.

I never said to replace him, I said to get another coder in addition, having only 1 artist and 1 coder was a bad idea from the start if you make enough money to hire backup.

Like, it's just a basic organisation advice that would literaly solve every problem MITY currently has.

 

[Separin]

I never said to replace him, I said to get another coder in addition, having only 1 artist and 1 coder was a bad idea from the start if you make enough money to hire backup.

Like, it's just a basic organisation advice that would literaly solve every problem MITY currently has.

Weren't some people saying the code is so messed up you'd basically have to start from scratch to make sence of it? I don't understand any of that, just read comments saying this.

 

[Balrog]

Weren't some people saying the code is so messed up you'd basically have to start from scratch to make sence of it? I don't understand any of that, just read comments saying this.

More like it's basicaly spaghetti coding that's pointless convoluted and is to be avoided in group project.

But I don't know shit about coding.

 

[t4ewk]

Weren't some people saying the code is so messed up you'd basically have to start from scratch to make sence of it? I don't understand any of that, just read comments saying this.

This is only partially true. The code isn't so much a mess as it is not efficient from what I recall. There was a conversation on here some months back where someone went through the code because others were complaining about it and showed that it's not the big mess everyone thought it was, but that it's also not super well written code.

I personally haven't looked at it (not that I'd really know too much of what I'd be looking at as I'm no programmer and only have a basic introduction to Python), but that's the story I've been told on here from people who seem to know better than I do about the subject.

On the topic of the update being "late". If you were making 10k+ a month and you had no expectation to release regularly or suffer any consequences for not releasing regularly, would you be putting in as much work as you could to finish as quickly as possible? Or would you take an extra "payday" every few months to pad your bank account? The crowd sourcing model doesn't work if there are no consequences/responsibility involved. If putting out an update every 45-60 days is enough to keep your patrons around then that's what you're likely to do, regardless of how "noble" your original intentions were.

 

[Shinobikun]

The code that was really messy were always the mini games. There you could truly see that the coder is very inexperienced.

For the rest: Its not like writing a Renpy Game with (basicaly) linear progression is that complicated. So besides the code not being well structured (which mostly affects bug hunting being harder), the code is 'alright', since there isn't much to do wrong.

At least thats what I remember from looking at the code a few months back.

The writing is always top notch though. I also wish they would get a separate coder. It honestly wouldn't even be a full time job for a games like this, especially for a programmer with actual experience.

 

[Mistervd]

The code that was really messy were always the mini games. There you could truly see that the coder is very inexperienced.

For the rest: Its not like writing a Renpy Game with (basicaly) linear progression is that complicated. So besides the code not being well structured (which mostly affects bug hunting being harder), the code is 'alright', since there isn't much to do wrong.

At least thats what I remember from looking at the code a few months back.

The writing is always top notch though. I also wish they would get a separate coder. It honestly wouldn't even be a full time job for a games like this, especially for a programmer with actual experience.

Yeah I remenber everyone here laughing at the minigame's code. I didn't because I don't know shit about coding but everybody that did had a good laugh that week.

 

[Separin]

Alright so what would help then would be a coder hired specifically to code these shitty minigames? Seems like an ok option, unless you don't want to share the booty, that is...

 

[Balrog]

Alright so what would help then would be a coder hired specifically to code these shitty minigames? Seems like an ok option, unless you don't want to share the booty, that is...

Or even simpler : Just hire a backup guy whenever it's obvious the coder is gonna go into a meltdown or create delay, you don't even have to have a guy always there to make the mini games or anything.

 

[t4ewk]

"Just hire another coder"
That would require splitting the money they're making, and they're no consequences for not releasing regularly, so that's not going to happen.

 

[Balrog]

"Just hire another coder"
That would require splitting the money they're making, and they're no consequences for not releasing regularly, so that's not going to happen.

It take what ? 100 bucks ? 500 bucks ? To have no delay while the coder get his usual meltdown out of the way.

Like any half decent coder can do renpy with no issue whatsoever and probably little effort.

 

[maurok7]

love route is short than slave route in book 4?

 

[Xto]

Jesus, not saying people don't have the right to complain but the update is barely a week overdue and we're already calling for the coder's head, again totally forgetting that he was the one that started the project in the first place and is also the writer. He has two jobs, the artist has one. Plus, much of the "coding" involves incorporating and animating the art assets, especially when there's a new minigame. Of course he's going to be the one we're always waiting for, he can't finish his work until the artist is done. Then once he is done, he likely has to lay out the story for the next update before the artist can start working.

It might help to hire another coder, depending on how separable the writing and coding are (likely the only parts that could easily be coded concurrently are the minigames). If they split the writing, the quality might vary, and they'd probably demand a large share.

They're by and large hitting a 4-6 week schedule. Many of the other projects I'm following take 3 months or even longer to produce the same amount of content these guys produce in a month, and many of those just consist of DAZ renders using premade assets. FET is totally hand-drawn. I don't get why people here have so little patience with these guys when as far as I can recall they've only had one major period of delay. For many projects that period is just the typical time between updates and people barely complain. The artist even produced an entire bonus game to make up for it so it's not like it was a total sunk cost.

 

[Balrog]

Jesus, not saying people don't have the right to complain but the update is barely a week overdue and we're already calling for the coder's head, again totally forgetting that he was the one that started the project in the first place and is also the writer.

It doesn't matter how long the delay is, it's not the first one and we recently had one that turned out to last for 4 months so once we have another delay for the exact same reason, people just put forth easy solution to solve that issue, instead of just waiting for it to go away.

He has 2 'jobs' by his own choice, if he can't handle them, he should delegate or hire backup, which is literaly all everyone here is saying.

Him not responding to the artist on any attempt to get a head's up isn't an 'obviously it's how it works', it's a 'probably about to have a meltdown again'

and No, we know why we always wait for him, the patreon always tell us it's because he has burn outs.

It's not a 'might' help, it's guaranteed to solve the issue unless they hire a fuck up.

Yes, they're hitting schedule with a lot of lateness while constantly breaking their patreon promise to maintain the previous schedule, that's not a good thing.

 

[Reluctant Sinner]

love route is short than slave route in book 4?

Bruh it ain't fuckin' close to done yet.

 

[timepants]

So... will there also be some sexy desna on the love route?

 

[Reluctant Sinner]

It doesn't matter how long the delay is, it's not the first one and we recently had one that turned out to last for 4 months so once we have another delay for the exact same reason, people just put forth easy solution to solve that issue, instead of just waiting for it to go away.

He has 2 'jobs' by his own choice, if he can't handle them, he should delegate or hire backup, which is literaly all everyone here is saying.

Him not responding to the artist on any attempt to get a head's up isn't an 'obviously it's how it works', it's a 'probably about to have a meltdown again'

and No, we know why we always wait for him, the patreon always tell us it's because he has burn outs.

It's not a 'might' help, it's guaranteed to solve the issue unless they hire a fuck up.

Yes, they're hitting schedule with a lot of lateness while constantly breaking their patreon promise to maintain the previous schedule, that's not a good thing.

I mean I'm a massive simp for Mity, I would take a bullet for this guy(s), but even I can admit, making 300,000 dollars a year in total off of this, they can afford to pay a coder. Easily.

 

[Reluctant Sinner]

So... will there also be some sexy desna on the love route?

I fuckin' hope so!

If it looks enough like a girl, then I'll happily make it squeal like one. Besides Desna is a very pretty lad.

 

[darkgunner079]

Jesus, not saying people don't have the right to complain but the update is barely a week overdue and we're already calling for the coder's head, again totally forgetting that he was the one that started the project in the first place and is also the writer. He has two jobs, the artist has one. Plus, much of the "coding" involves incorporating and animating the art assets, especially when there's a new minigame. Of course he's going to be the one we're always waiting for, he can't finish his work until the artist is done. Then once he is done, he likely has to lay out the story for the next update before the artist can start working.

It might help to hire another coder, depending on how separable the writing and coding are (likely the only parts that could easily be coded concurrently are the minigames). If they split the writing, the quality might vary, and they'd probably demand a large share.

They're by and large hitting a 4-6 week schedule. Many of the other projects I'm following take 3 months or even longer to produce the same amount of content these guys produce in a month, and many of those just consist of DAZ renders using premade assets. FET is totally hand-drawn. I don't get why people here have so little patience with these guys when as far as I can recall they've only had one major period of delay. For many projects that period is just the typical time between updates and people barely complain. The artist even produced an entire bonus game to make up for it so it's not like it was a total sunk cost.

No ones calling for his head, just for a little bit better communication on his part because we went into this month with silence on when the update might be coming, the coder makes a post a few days later (told by the artist to do so, not on his own volition) rambling a bunch but eventually saying the build wasnt ready and it needed a week, its now over a week and the artist has responded to comments saying hes getting "concerning vibes" from the coder and sent him an email asking him once again to make another post and tell us whats going on and/or when we can expect the update. This isnt the first time this has happened.

Hell Im fine with waiting a bit longer for the update but right now everyone (including the artist it seems) is completely in the dark and the coder has had ample time to make a simple post giving at least some updated timeframe or reason for the delay. And again, the artist has had to tell him to make a post and actually communicate with patrons twice now.

And like other people have said, if trying to keep to the schedule they set is having such an adverse effect on the coder then they need to hire more help, its extremely frustrating to have this constant cycle of a few consistent updates followed by a coder meltdown and weeks/potentially months of delay, and most of that time patrons are left with little idea of whats going on while MITY continues to cash the check each month regardless of progress, and its even more frustrating that enough people seem to think thats acceptable and actively encourage it.