VN Ren'Py Completed Freeloading Family [v0.32] [FFCreations]

[Wugga]

I get what you're saying and you state valid points. The thing that people have said multiple times though is that the player could have been given more choice in all this via the Pacifism/Perversion system. Just an example but If you have gone full Pacifism with Alice she jumps headlong into her relationship with Leah, the player is very supportive and you move forward from there (This is pretty much what we got in 0.50). If you had gone full perversion though, Alice isn't interested in continuing her relationship with Leah due to being too sexually enamored with the MC. Leah's story could then have been explored separately and I'm certain no one would of complained, as the player had been given that choice. I know this isn't going to change but I can't help but feel this would have been an improvement on what we have in game as the minute and going forward. As it stands the player just has to be comfortable with Alice fucking someone else.

The thing is that in your example for the full perversion route you're having Alice end her established relationship with Leah over less than a week of sexual tension with the MC. It's too soon in the story for such a thing. I think you're confusing the perversion route with a more dominant route. While there is some overlap in attitude you have to imagine that a perverted MC would be pretty okay with a hot lesbian and his bisexual sister who he has been fooling around with in the house. I don't remember the game line by line but maybe adding in the MC mentioning or hinting towards working himself into a three some with them would help you.

If you really want to end the relationship between Alice and Leah I don't see any good way to end it before this point in the story without the MC being a straight up sick. You're too nice as a pacifist and as a pervert you shouldn't be feeling threatened by a lesbian relationship when the girl tells you that she prefers relationships with guys and is only in it for sex. Breaking the relationship between the two should really be a few more versions ahead as you go deeper in the story.

 

[sl0rp1on]

that is strange - if you're certain that you're playing the .51 version, that option should be presented. if it isn't, i have a feeling your save file is using the old script. Not sure why that's happening for you.

Ok. I'll delete all saves and start a new game.

BTW. I also applied the Incest patch. from this thread. Could that have something to do with it? I'll check it.

Did you extract it in the same folder of the previous version?

No. I made a new folder, but copied saves from version 0.50.

 

[rodneyeatme]

The thing is that in your example for the full perversion route you're having Alice end her established relationship with Leah over less than a week of sexual tension with the MC. It's too soon in the story for such a thing. I think you're confusing the perversion route with a more dominant route. While there is some overlap in attitude you have to imagine that a perverted MC would be pretty okay with a hot lesbian and his bisexual sister who he has been fooling around with in the house. I don't remember the game line by line but maybe adding in the MC mentioning or hinting towards working himself into a three some with them would help you.

If you really want to end the relationship between Alice and Leah I don't see any good way to end it before this point in the story without the MC being a straight up sick. You're too nice as a pacifist and as a pervert you shouldn't be feeling threatened by a lesbian relationship when the girl tells you that she prefers relationships with guys and is only in it for sex. Breaking the relationship between the two should really be a few more versions ahead as you go deeper in the story.

With the way the story has been going, you are right that simply ending the girls relationship is too extreme for this early a spot in the game.

My main issue is MC's bliss over being cucked. You mention the threesome possibility as something MC should look forward to but the girls use that on MC in order to tease him, and not in a particularly friendly way. Their little, "We're waiting for you so we can this orgy started.....Yeah, right faggot!" should have enraged MC, especially after the two of them spend an hour yammering at the MC about fuck-fuck-pussy-fuck-fuck. As soon as MC gave Alice enthusiastic permission to invite her vag-moistener over, the pair of them pulled a heel turn into rude sluts. It is like inviting over a dinner guest who empties your liquor cabinet, brags about how drunk they are, then asks for a roadie.

Now, I was pissed off after witnessing that bullshit, but at the girls, not the writers. The writers pissed me off with the continued insistence that MC is deliriously happy with current events. "Oh golly, girls, sure you can chastise me after teasing me with the threesome and banish me from parts of my own fucking house. Have fun! Wow, my life is awesome. I'll just lie down in bed and wank myself using my own tears for lubricant. Tears of joy, that is."

Plotting an elaborate revenge upon those two whores is in my direct interest. Continuing on with CuckSimulator 2018 is decidedly not. We'll see what these guys have planned, I guess.

 

[Siddington]

The thing is that in your example for the full perversion route you're having Alice end her established relationship with Leah over less than a week of sexual tension with the MC. It's too soon in the story for such a thing. I think you're confusing the perversion route with a more dominant route. While there is some overlap in attitude you have to imagine that a perverted MC would be pretty okay with a hot lesbian and his bisexual sister who he has been fooling around with in the house. I don't remember the game line by line but maybe adding in the MC mentioning or hinting towards working himself into a three some with them would help you.

If you really want to end the relationship between Alice and Leah I don't see any good way to end it before this point in the story without the MC being a straight up sick. You're too nice as a pacifist and as a pervert you shouldn't be feeling threatened by a lesbian relationship when the girl tells you that she prefers relationships with guys and is only in it for sex. Breaking the relationship between the two should really be a few more versions ahead as you go deeper in the story.

I can see your point but I don't feel like it would have been too much of a jump. We don't know how long things have been going on with Alice and Leah as it's never really stated. So her deciding to call off what mite be a relatively new, no strings attached, sex only relationship because she starts to have feelings for someone else wouldn't be a stretch at all. In fact it sounds like something most reasonable people would do. As for the statement about me confusing a Dominant route over perversion, I would say look no further than the Susan scenes to see how the writer has handled this before. The MC pretty much goes full Dom on Susan in the perversion path and she rather likes it. I'm not saying it has to be written like this for Alice but I see no reason why not. Pacifism in this game is as good as Submission by another name. Just about every decision seems to indicate that. Perversion on the other hands seems clearly geared towards a more Dominant play through.

 

[V.A. Laurie]

I can see your point but I don't feel like it would have been too much of a jump. We don't know how long things have been going on with Alice and Leah as it's never really stated. So her deciding to call off what mite be a relatively new, no strings attached, sex only relationship because she starts to have feelings for someone else wouldn't be a stretch at all. In fact it sounds like something most reasonable people would do. As for the statement about me confusing a Dominant route over perversion, I would say look no further than the Susan scenes to see how the writer has handled this before. The MC pretty much goes full Dom on Susan in the perversion path and she rather likes it. I'm not saying it has to be written like this for Alice but I see no reason why not. Pacifism in this game is as good as Submission by another name. Just about every decision seems to indicate that. Perversion on the other hands seems clearly geared towards a more Dominant play through.

I will say, I've never said the game is sub/dom oriented. It is more perversion than domination. Each girl is intended to have her own personality, leading to those points (perversion/pacifism) being utilized in different ways.

 

[YaYa_UnTIN2]

I will say, I've never said the game is sub/dom oriented. It is more perversion than domination. Each girl is intended to have her own personality, leading to those points (perversion/pacifism) being utilized in different ways.

Hi V.A. Laurie,

Well, it may just be me but, the way I interpreted by playing your game was just that - a Dom/Perv path vs Sub/Pacifist path game play, just by the choices we are given.

No worries but, if the MC won't be getting with the sister - (maybe she should have to go live elsewhere).

I would at least want to get with Melony the crazy girl (I like that character) she is fun.

Thanks for the game, keep going!

 

[Wugga]

Sorry for not doing multireplies but its harder to do on phone.

About the perversion = domination as I mentioned in the previous post the way I see it is that there is overlap but they don't equal each other. The MC will act dominant with the teacher because that's the type of flirtation going on, with Melody he will be more open to sexual things, with the sister he is more shameless but still loving. All of those fit more into a perverted character rather than a dominant character.

As for Alice and Leah post hookup dialogue I will have to go back in to check more in-depth later but the way I saw it in the initial quick skimming I did as a totally perverted character it felt like teasing rather than any meaningful cuckold. I think the cuckold criticism is being overused a lot as people here have taken it as any character having sex with someone who isn't me.

It's similar to the complaining going on in Long Live The Princess where the NTR are scene added is totally preventable and preventing it makes you come out as the good guy. Yet people are still complaining about it. This game isn't The Tyrant or the paradise spaceship one where NTR is a major theme and mechanic.

 

[YaYa_UnTIN2]

Sorry for not doing multireplies but its harder to do on phone.

About the perversion = domination as I mentioned in the previous post the way I see it is that there is overlap but they don't equal each other. The MC will act dominant with the teacher because that's the type of flirtation going on, with Melody he will be more open to sexual things, with the sister he is more shameless but still loving. All of those fit more into a perverted character rather than a dominant character.

As for Alice and Leah post hookup dialogue I will have to go back in to check more in-depth later but the way I saw it in the initial quick skimming I did as a totally perverted character it felt like teasing rather than any meaningful cuckold. I think the cuckold criticism is being overused a lot as people here have taken it as any character having sex with someone who isn't me.

It's similar to the complaining going on in Long Live The Princess where the NTR are scene added is totally preventable and preventing it makes you come out as the good guy. Yet people are still complaining about it. This game isn't The Tyrant or the paradise spaceship one where NTR is a major theme and mechanic.

Hi Wugga,

You said - "I did as a totally perverted character it felt like teasing rather than any meaningful cuckold."

I am playing only as the (every choice) perv path but, I felt instantly the MC was getting cucked by Alice and Leah after "that" scene. So to each there own interpretation of the plot I guess.

You said - "criticism" - I say "feedback from actual players is good even if sounds harsh".

I'll still play the game but, I personally will not like any cucked male scenario in any game.

We will see what's next for us "haters" - (sarcasm) in the next release.

 

[Siddington]

I will say, I've never said the game is sub/dom oriented. It is more perversion than domination. Each girl is intended to have her own personality, leading to those points (perversion/pacifism) being utilized in different ways.

You may not have said it but the way the choices are written, Pacifism is very submissive. Also while not all the Perversion choices are Domination, they have tended to lean more towards that side of things and in some cases (Susan) flat out are. Not a criticism at all just an observation really.

As for Alice and Leah post hookup dialogue I will have to go back in to check more in-depth later but the way I saw it in the initial quick skimming I did as a totally perverted character it felt like teasing rather than any meaningful cuckold. I think the cuckold criticism is being overused a lot as people here have taken it as any character having sex with someone who isn't me.

I'll agree that this is not a full on cuckold situation but the player can't help but feel that way with how the dialogue is written. The reaction of the MC to the situation "Omg lesbians are so hawt, I'm totally going to fap to this. Aren't I a lucky boy" is so far away from what a lot of players (not all obviously) are thinking at that point in the game, it is just too jarring. Add in the fact that there is no player agency given during this to effect the outcome and you can see why people are annoyed. The dialogue is currently the same whether you play it Pacifism or Perversion although the writer has stated that it could be rewritten in the near future to better fit the two new choices.

What I will say though is male or female, this kind of content will always be considered NTR. After all the player's love interest is sleeping with another person without the player being able to do anything about it. NTR isn't exclusively about full cuckold situations and it seems too many people on this forum misunderstand that. It doesn't have to be cheating, it's just about the players jealousy of a character they like fucking someone else. I think this has only escaped an even bigger reaction on here because it's a woman Alice is sleeping with. Some people are apparently more forgiving if it's a woman involved. I'll be honest, if it had been a guy I would of dropped this game and never looked back with the way it was made unavoidable. Click

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for better description on VNDB.

 

[rodneyeatme]

I think the biggest issue for a lot of you guys isn't the "NTR" but that the game stops here. If the game kept going after that with the main character on the couch groping his step sister while she told him how the fuck session with Leah went on there would be a lot less criticism.

I am unsure I can properly convey exactly how wrong I feel you are.

Your scenario would be about as welcome as the next episode containing a "Prep the bull" conversation between MC and Alice.

Yeah.

 

[Siddington]

"Step-sister or not, I wanted Alice. She could fool around with Leah all she wanted, that was fine."

Again it's the same argument. It honestly doesn't matter a single bit what the MC says in the game when the disconnect from the players emotions during that scene is so severe. I get that it won't be the same for everyone but that's why we are normally given choices to decide what content we want to see. If this sentence had came just after the player had been given a choice out of "I'm totally happy with Alice and Leah fucking" and "I'm mortified that Alice would so casually sleep with someone she doesn't care about" and the player chose the first option, you could understand. I understand that some people, including you see no issue here. Maybe they are hoping for a threesome so this is awesome for them.

Before all this happened however Alice made sure you understood that her relationship with Leah was nothing more than a hookup with no actual emotions or relationship involved. She made sure to tell you she only gets into relationship with guys. After the bathroom scene with Leah, Alice is sure to ask your permission for the relationship and once again restate that it is nothing more than a hookup.

Honestly in what way does any of this make Alice look like anything but a slut. "don't worry bro, I'm only fucking this person because I'm horny. She mean's nothing to me. This in no way means we can't have some fun wink wink" Clearly I was hoping for a little romance in this game with the sister as the others are clearing sluts but it seems I will have to look elsewhere. Not sure Alice can come out looking good after this and she was the only reason I came to this game.

I think the biggest issue for a lot of you guys isn't the "NTR" but that the game stops here. If the game kept going after that with the main character on the couch groping his step sister while she told him how the fuck session with Leah went on there would be a lot less criticism.

Couldn't disagree with this more. The problem a lot of us have with this is that we, as the player, were given no way to influence whether we liked or wanted to see that content. You're forced down an NTR route while the only option so far (from 0.51) is to go out and try to forget it's happening. This has been said by multiple people on this thread numerous times. Unsure how we could be more clear really.

As for the girl on girl netorare

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that out as well. Girl on girl is hot and the majority of the demographic is male. Most guys won't be that scared of losing their "loved one" to another girl. In this case especially when the girl literally tells you she only dates guys

Again another description that doesn't in any way reference it's visual novel descriptions or variations and just sticks to the harder end of Netorare which is cuckolding, sharing and the like. As for the "another girl just doesn't pack the same punch", it's a ridiculous statement and incredibly subjective. Most men may not find themselves particularly worried about losing their partner to another woman but I dare you to say that to the people worldwide irl that do, daily no doubt. I'm pretty sure a woman is just as capable of stealing another woman out of a relationship as a man is. Again with the last sentence I fail to see how this makes Alice look like anything but a whore. "I only date men but will gladly fuck around no strings attached in the meantime"

I do think the next update will give the people who have been critical of this game, myself included, a better idea of the direction the dev and writer are taking this game. How they deal with the aftermath of the Alice/Leah sleepover will pretty much make or break the game for me I think. As I've said before, it's more about the lack of choice the player was given with regards to all this. If I wanted to be supportive of Alice and Leah and maybe join in on the fun later on I should have been able to choose. I didn't want that but was forced into it. Nothing more to say really.

 

[sansusername]

If I wanted to be supportive of Alice and Leah and maybe join in on the fun later on I should have been able to choose. I didn't want that but was forced into

I think this is what @V.A. Laurie was saying yesterday in his post... This is telling the devs what to do and how to do it. That's not constructive. That's a personal opinion being masqueraded as the only right way to make these games.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't think I'd ever say that a dev needs to do this or that because they are clearly doing something.

I think that if you don't like the game, don't play it. If you do like the game, play it. If you're not sure, then still keep playing just to see.

The devs, and a good bit of this community are saying it isn't ntr and it isn't supposed to be Cuckolding. I daresay that if you are feeling jealousy in your real life while playing this, you may want to reevaluate how much importance your giving these games in your life.

But again, just don't play it if you dislike it. I'm sure as shit suit the devs next game, if there is one, will be vastly different. Not just because of these comments, but because variety begets a wider audience.

If you hate this game, stop playing. Find another for now and wait for the next game from this team. Everyone here likes SOMETHING about it, so just relax and wait for more.

Fighting about whether you should feel jealous or not... What's the point? I still think that the devs should ignore comments from the people here telling them to change their plans. That's stupid as hell. Let them build their game.

Or best yet, become their patrons so you can actually say, "I'm supporting you financially, can I have a little say in this?" -canceling your support and then telling them to change is dumb. Just means that the next people to come in and support them WILL be people that enjoy what's being released and they'll have no incentive to change it anymore

 

[Siddington]

I think this is what @V.A. Laurie was saying yesterday in his post... This is telling the devs what to do and how to do it. That's not constructive. That's a personal opinion being masqueraded as the only right way to make these games.

I would say I am simply stating that players like to be given the choice to influence what content they see games. As has been said multiple times, it's the main issue people have had with the last update. I fail to see how the player being given more choice could possibly be a bad thing. The dev/writer have acknowledged this may have been an error and have taken steps to correct it. I do still feel it isn't adequate but I was willing to stick around to see what the future held because of how much I liked this game. Unfortunately people like you make us feel unwelcome for sharing a negative opinion on the game, even going as far as to patronize us for how emotionally invested we may or may not get.

Or best yet, become their patrons so you can actually say, "I'm supporting you financially, can I have a little say in this?" -canceling your support and then telling them to change is dumb. Just means that the next people to come in and support them WILL be people that enjoy what's being released and they'll have no incentive to change it anymore

You mite have well just said "You're not a Patron so your opinion is invalid" So you are basically saying that the dev should listen to no negative feedback, even if it's perfectly valid and constructive just because you currently like the game as is. That's what a lot of your argument seems to boil down to if I'm honest. You like it so we should stop pointing out it's flaws to the developer just in case he agrees and changes something. That's perfectly fine btw as you, just like me, are entitled to your opinion.

I've had a few messages telling me continuing this discussion here is pointless and until now I wasn't sure what to do going forward. After this though I am genuinely wondering what the point of this is. I'm just repeating myself at this point and discussing/arguing points like this with you is in the end a pointless endeavor. The developer and writer have seen our opinions on the last update and will do with them what they will. I will say thank you to them for being cordial and open to discussion on the matter at least.

 

[V.A. Laurie]

I would say I am simply stating that players like to be given the choice to influence what content they see games. As has been said multiple times, it's the main issue people have had with the last update. I fail to see how the player being given more choice could possibly be a bad thing. The dev/writer have acknowledged this may have been an error and have taken steps to correct it. I do still feel it isn't adequate but I was willing to stick around to see what the future held because of how much I liked this game. Unfortunately people like you make us feel unwelcome for sharing a negative opinion on the game, even going as far as to patronize us for how emotionally invested we may or may not get.



You mite have well just said "You're not a Patron so your opinion is invalid" So you are basically saying that the dev should listen to no negative feedback, even if it's perfectly valid and constructive just because you currently like the game as is. That's what a lot of your argument seems to boil down to if I'm honest. You like it so we should stop pointing out it's flaws to the developer just in case he agrees and changes something. That's perfectly fine btw as you, just like me, are entitled to your opinion.

I've had a few messages telling me continuing this discussion here is pointless and until now I wasn't sure what to do going forward. After this though I am genuinely wondering what the point of this is. I'm just repeating myself at this point and discussing/arguing points like this with you is in the end a pointless endeavor. The developer and writer have seen our opinions on the last update and will do with them what they will. I will say thank you to them for being cordial and open to discussion on the matter at least.

I still say that all discussion is being read and noted, but i partly agree with both of these last comments. In a way, being a patron is a bigger factor in listening because those people are supporting FFCreations, but at the same time, that is not the only factor. I'm listening to everyone here. Negative and positive. It's all, in a way, helpful for how I should gear the game moving forward.

Personally, I do prefer the feedback in the form of "i felt this way because this happened," instead of the "VA should have written it this way." -- Again, it's a matter of understanding your thoughts vs being told how someone else would create the game. I can understand, though, if people simply tell us what is on their mind, even if that takes the form of "should haves."

But in regards to the end of your comment, perhaps it is time to just wait. The conversation here does seem to be stagnated at this point. I don't think that anyone will be changing the opinion of someone else about what NTR, Cucking, or what the meaning of the ending of the update was.

Keep it going if you want - I'll never say to stop talking about the game, but if you're feeling like the conversation isn't progressing, maybe it should just wait a while for more content. That will definitely further the conversation, once everyone can see more content and decide if the game is still moving forward well, poorly, or if you're still on the fence.

 

[V.A. Laurie]

You guys (and maybe gals), I really think that the story I am planning is going to be a fun one. I can't promise that everyone will enjoy it, because opinions vary so much, but if you think that I have any ability to write and tell a story based on what you've seen so far, I really hope that you can come on back to see what is going to happen.

 

[User_32285]

Can't please evreyone all the time, do what makes you happy.

 

[jaydem]

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I have read most of your comment from the start of this version, While it was a shocker for me at first, I started re-reading what you where trying hard not to say about the next version.

I then ran a few senerio's the my head of what direction it could go, and realized that there was a couple ways, to which It would have to play this scene, whether seeing it or not.

That being said brother, I do have some worries as to the story and would like if you could tell if, That the way the story is going past this version, will still be having a romance theme between MC and Sister?

I think it can still work that way, sort of a deeper love buildup between the two...Of course not give to much away brother....Thanks and Peace.

 

[V.A. Laurie]

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I have read most of your comment from the start of this version, While it was a shocker for me at first, I started re-reading what you where trying hard not to say about the next version.

I then ran a few senerio's the my head of what direction it could go, and realized that there was a couple ways, to which It would have to play this scene, whether seeing it or not.

That being said brother, I do have some worries as to the story and would like if you could tell if, That the way the story is going past this version, will still be having a romance theme between MC and Sister?

I think it can still work that way, sort of a deeper love buildup between the two...Of course not give to much away brother....Thanks and Peace.

the simple answer to that is, Yes. There will be.

 

[jaydem]

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That's kind of what I thought too, That's awesome brother.
I can't wait for the next release....Peace :extremelyhappy:!!

 

[JenusKudo]

I still say that all discussion is being read and noted, but i partly agree with both of these last comments. In a way, being a patron is a bigger factor in listening because those people are supporting FFCreations, but at the same time, that is not the only factor. I'm listening to everyone here. Negative and positive. It's all, in a way, helpful for how I should gear the game moving forward.

Personally, I do prefer the feedback in the form of "i felt this way because this happened," instead of the "VA should have written it this way." -- Again, it's a matter of understanding your thoughts vs being told how someone else would create the game. I can understand, though, if people simply tell us what is on their mind, even if that takes the form of "should haves."

But in regards to the end of your comment, perhaps it is time to just wait. The conversation here does seem to be stagnated at this point. I don't think that anyone will be changing the opinion of someone else about what NTR, Cucking, or what the meaning of the ending of the update was.

Keep it going if you want - I'll never say to stop talking about the game, but if you're feeling like the conversation isn't progressing, maybe it should just wait a while for more content. That will definitely further the conversation, once everyone can see more content and decide if the game is still moving forward well, poorly, or if you're still on the fence.

Truth be told, this discussion is not going anywhere. We are all running in circles and repeating the same thing as ' this is ntr material, no it's not ' . And it will continue to be like this until the next update will come out and hopefully a chance to avoid the '' hate '' scene for us '' haters '' .
Until then.